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Kinis Deren
The Nyan Cat Pirates
Disband.
275
   |
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
100?
500?
1000?
2000?
... more?
Into PVP & looking for small gang focused, NPC Null corp? Check out The Nyan Cat Pirates!
Corp CEO looking for an easy going, none sov, PVP alliance? Join Disband. today! |
iskflakes
889
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Numbers win every fight in the current meta, so you need at least as many pilots as the smallest block so you can evict them.
Let's say 1000 active pilots (or maybe 10,000-20,000 general members).
- |
Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business
The Kadeshi
201
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Numbers win every fight in the current meta, so you need at least as many pilots as the smallest block so you can evict them.
Let's say 1000 active pilots (or maybe 10,000-20,000 general members).
right so in other words there is no way a new group can come into null sec. |
Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
263
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
They can if they kiss the ring
^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |
Aliventi
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
643
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:iskflakes wrote:Numbers win every fight in the current meta, so you need at least as many pilots as the smallest block so you can evict them.
Let's say 1000 active pilots (or maybe 10,000-20,000 general members). right so in other words there is no way a new group can come into null sec.
Without blueing everyone and their mother: yes.
"tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
Edmark I
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
36
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
It depends on how much the current owner wants the system. There are actually unclaimed systems out there, at least I ran across a couple last year in useless regions like Oasa.
And a lot of systems in the drones that are only held for strategic purposes dont even have ihubs and can be flipped easily. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2181
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:iskflakes wrote:Numbers win every fight in the current meta, so you need at least as many pilots as the smallest block so you can evict them.
Let's say 1000 active pilots (or maybe 10,000-20,000 general members). right so in other words there is no way a new group can come into null sec.
Yes, and CCP is clearly happy with the game mechanics that enforce this situation.
Why on earth would CCP want players who have not been exposed to null before to actually try to find their own independent way, when there is an enormous null sec organization, that they can join, and pay protection money to every month?
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning.
The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
1086
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
100?
500?
1000?
2000?
... more?
60,000 alts.
CCP: "We know what's best for the game, so you can't have any options....." |
iskflakes
889
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:iskflakes wrote:Numbers win every fight in the current meta, so you need at least as many pilots as the smallest block so you can evict them.
Let's say 1000 active pilots (or maybe 10,000-20,000 general members). right so in other words there is no way a new group can come into null sec.
Yes, it's absolutely - 100% - impossible unless you're willing to strike a deal with a current powerblock. However luckily such deals are easy to strike. Usually you take your small corporation and join a large alliance, or you take your own alliance and ally with another one. You get to live in one of their stations and show up to their fleets, and when they make gains they'll give you a few systems, you can build up from there.
The idea that you can do the whole thing on your own without allies is just not understanding sov null at all.
- |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
2244
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
The number is almost certainly over 9000.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels
Fidelas Constans
2015
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:iskflakes wrote:Numbers win every fight in the current meta, so you need at least as many pilots as the smallest block so you can evict them.
Let's say 1000 active pilots (or maybe 10,000-20,000 general members). right so in other words there is no way a new group can come into null sec.
pure blind
venal
curse
great wildlands
syndicate
and to top it off we have cva being so kind to open up Providence ..
Yup a new group can never EVER come into null sec.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
iskflakes
889
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
flakeys wrote:
pure blind
venal
curse
great wildlands
syndicate
and to top it off we have cva being so kind to open up Providence ..
Yup a new group can never EVER come into null sec.
He wants to take and hold systems. He's clearly talking about sov null.
- |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
CODE.
3406
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
One person with enough time and determination can do this alone against a terrible alliance.
See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
John Bosch
State War Academy
Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:iskflakes wrote:Numbers win every fight in the current meta, so you need at least as many pilots as the smallest block so you can evict them.
Let's say 1000 active pilots (or maybe 10,000-20,000 general members). right so in other words there is no way a new group can come into null sec.
New groups can certainly come into nullsec. But most would rather forum whine about it rather than put in the time it takes. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
172
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
There is no way a new group can enter Player Null. Even Brave Newbies with their numbers can not enter player null game because 50K Goons or 50K NC. will just kill you all day. Current Null mechanics do not promote new organizations venturing into it. Mostly because each timer gives Goons and NC a chance to form up dudes days in advance of a "real" timer.
Sadly New groups looking for a null experience are limited to living in NPC space (list in a post above) or becoming a "pet" to either Goons or NC(dot). Or renting space from Goons or NC(dot). |
Yarda Black
Epidemic.
Spaceship Samurai
19
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
The number depends on the space you take.
I believe current major blocks can field 300 - 400 in any given timezone. If you **** them off enough, they'll do 2000. Everything and their mother is mobilized, JB and titans fueled.
So ask yourself this; if you could do that, would the system being attacked by a new alliance be worth moving your fleets or will you ignore this new alliance for now and use them as roaming targets? |
Thead Enco
Killing is Business
Get Off My Lawn
87
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
100?
500?
1000?
2000?
... more?
Setting caps will never work, if you want sov learn to communicate, organize, make friends. If you want be that guy at the train station with a hyperdermikc needle hanging of your arm begging for spare change there's always wormhole life.
"Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
Tywin Lannister-á |
Kryptik Kai
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
9287
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
42
"Shiny.-á Lets be bad guys." -Jayne Cobb |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
172
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
100?
500?
1000?
2000?
... more? Setting caps will never work, if you want sov learn to communicate, organize, make friends. If you want be that guy at the train station with a hyperdermikc needle hanging of your arm begging for spare change there's always wormhole life.
So CFC is truly BOB then? After all it was this kind of **** sucking mentality that Goons first fought against. When they killed Bob off it was either join the clique, or you didn't get to play. Goons vowed to change the game! Yet 5 years later you still either join a clique or die.
Hey guys the solution to getting into sov as a non alligned, non blue entity is to make some friends and communicate with others!
....you don't say.
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2184
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Thead Enco wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
100?
500?
1000?
2000?
... more? Setting caps will never work, if you want sov learn to communicate, organize, make friends. If you want be that guy at the train station with a hyperdermikc needle hanging of your arm begging for spare change there's always wormhole life. So CFC is truly BOB then? After all it was this kind of **** sucking mentality that Goons first fought against. When they killed Bob off it was either join the clique, or you didn't get to play. Goons vowed to change the game! Yet 5 years later you still either join a clique or die. Hey guys the solution to getting into sov as a non alligned, non blue entity is to make some friends and communicate with others! ....you don't say.
Is CFC truly BOB then?
Of course.
Two truisms always work:
"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"Follow the money."
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning.
The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
200
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thead Enco wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
100?
500?
1000?
2000?
... more? Setting caps will never work, if you want sov learn to communicate, organize, make friends. If you want be that guy at the train station with a hyperdermikc needle hanging of your arm begging for spare change there's always wormhole life. So CFC is truly BOB then? After all it was this kind of **** sucking mentality that Goons first fought against. When they killed Bob off it was either join the clique, or you didn't get to play. Goons vowed to change the game! Yet 5 years later you still either join a clique or die. Hey guys the solution to getting into sov as a non alligned, non blue entity is to make some friends and communicate with others! ....you don't say. Is CFC truly BOB then? Of course. Two truisms always work: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Follow the money."
Wrong!
Power corrupts but absolute power is pretty cool!
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
10009
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
One.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2489
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:One person with enough time and determination can do this alone against a terrible alliance. This.
And this.
The answer is 1.
Since the question is asking about the mechanics, the answer is 1, since that's all you need to start and alliance and throw up a TCU.
I think the question you wanted to ask is: How many players do we need to take and hold sov if we want to just dive in fighting the current owners without securing any form of treaty, to which the answer would be: lots. Obviously in any game, if you want to take on the entirety of the opposing side alone, you'll usually do badly. So what you would need to do instead is form up a big enough group that you can realistically offer an ally benefits to your co-existence then move in that way. It's just a fact of life that no everything can be done alone.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
John Bosch
State War Academy
Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Erotica 1 wrote:One person with enough time and determination can do this alone against a terrible alliance. This. And this. The answer is 1. Since the question is asking about the mechanics, the answer is 1, since that's all you need to start and alliance and throw up a TCU. I think the question you wanted to ask is: How many players do we need to take and hold sov if we want to just dive in fighting the current owners without securing any form of treaty, to which the answer would be: lots. Obviously in any game, if you want to take on the entirety of the opposing side alone, you'll usually do badly. So what you would need to do instead is form up a big enough group that you can realistically offer an ally benefits to your co-existence then move in that way. It's just a fact of life that no everything can be done alone.
If all the people who have forum whined in the MULTITUDES of threads on this subject got together, they could probably form a pretty large coalition. |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
1156
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
samualvimes wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thead Enco wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
100?
500?
1000?
2000?
... more? Setting caps will never work, if you want sov learn to communicate, organize, make friends. If you want be that guy at the train station with a hyperdermikc needle hanging of your arm begging for spare change there's always wormhole life. So CFC is truly BOB then? After all it was this kind of **** sucking mentality that Goons first fought against. When they killed Bob off it was either join the clique, or you didn't get to play. Goons vowed to change the game! Yet 5 years later you still either join a clique or die. Hey guys the solution to getting into sov as a non alligned, non blue entity is to make some friends and communicate with others! ....you don't say. Is CFC truly BOB then? Of course. Two truisms always work: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Follow the money." Wrong! Power corrupts but absolute power is pretty cool!
More importantly, it's FUN to be corrupt. And Corrupted. Otherwise, fewer people would be doing it! |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1027
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:right so in other words there is no way a new group can come into null sec. This.
Victor Dathar wrote:They can if they kiss the ring And this.
But realistically, even if you change sov mechanics in some way as to favor smaller groups, you'll still have the whole timezone thing working against the smaller entity. Sov is a game of blobs, it is what it is. |
Tear Jar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:One person with enough time and determination can do this alone against a terrible alliance.
Taking I believe, but how would one person hold sov? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4252
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
And we know his name....
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
2252
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Of course we do.
The single greatest holder of sovereignty in the game.
James 315, sov holder of all of highsec.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
308
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
I believe Chribba held sov solo for a while. |
Singoth
Angels of Blood and Fury
Battle Beavers
248
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Join a large alliance. Worm through their ranks, get more responsibilities, earn their trust.
Take over the alliance.
Tadaaaa, it's all yours now. Go wage a war.
You don't need anyone but yourself.... unless you want to start from scratch. In that case, just don't even try unless you're able to find 1000 pilots (if not more) to join your cause.
Less yappin', more zappin'! |
Rastafarian God
18
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
I have my doubts that a highsec alliance could get big enough.
But if you somehow got a gang together with back up ships the size of Goons and Gents combined and just full on pounded them you would do some major damage. You might even take some systems for awhile. The problem is that they would end up takin it back.
I could be done but the numbers would have to be so large to be able to "kick goons out of null" that it just wont happen. It is possible but not probable at all. |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
11004
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 23:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Take sov; one
Hold sov; varies
/c
|
|
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Space Hobos Inc.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
435
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 23:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Take a **** region and hold it under the name of the Caldari. You have the roleplaying gimmick and provi wont come after you because you two are roleplaying allies.
You might even get a few Fourth District people to join you.
Honor is a fools prize.
Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main!
~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
Cult of War
2074
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 23:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Really depends on the alliance you are taking Sov from. It would be safe to assume, any alliance that doesn't have the capability to defend their space, won't have it in the first place.
Monitor their activity, study their fleet composition, know when their most active hours are, and work form there.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2151
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Man, I wish I could play a game where people who had no experience in mass warfare could defeat those with years of such experience. That would be a really fun game with coherent mechanics.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
3850
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:What would you say is the minimum number of active pilots a non-alligned, non-blue'd up, non-renter/pet alliance would need to take and hold a single sov null system within the current mechanics framework?
I'm pretty sure you could do it with around seven pilots. But I've been known to be painfully mistaken before.
Worth a shot, though. Don't you think?
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
186
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Really depends on the alliance you are taking Sov from. It would be safe to assume, any alliance that doesn't have the capability to defend their space, won't have it in the first place.
indefinately
Sad this isn't true. Coalitions killed this aspect of Sov warfare...you don't seriously think the majority of CFC or N3 could defend their space if they had to do you if Coalitions didn't exist? If you aren't in a cool kids club, you don't get space...or you are in Providence RPing, |
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