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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.04.06 16:00:00 -
[61]
The problem is, there is a very fine line in balanced stabs. Nerf them too much and it will be impossible to pvp while heavily outnumbered outside of lame 200km+ sniping. It will turn even into even more of a skilless, blobbing/ganking game. Nerf them too little and people will keep whining.
Originally by: Ginger Magician
I have the fingerspeed of a teenager the brains of a rocket scientist and the tactical nous of a 5 star general. Why do u think I'm so freaking good?
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Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 16:15:00 -
[62]
What's really killing PvP is the mindset that says you need a killmail to win a fight.
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy. Industrial Giants |

Zysco
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Posted - 2006.04.06 16:20:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Eximius Josari What's really killing PvP is the mindset that says you need a killmail to win a fight.
Right, cause enemy warping out = you win right? Nevermind that he simply warps right back in at a different bookmark and snipes your tacklers who were where he used to be, you just won!
Originally by: Ginger Magician
I have the fingerspeed of a teenager the brains of a rocket scientist and the tactical nous of a 5 star general. Why do u think I'm so freaking good?
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Wizie
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Posted - 2006.04.06 16:26:00 -
[64]
Stabs are part of the game, removing them screws over genuine areas where they are required.
What is required is making stabs more tactical... I honestly don't know how this can be done.
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Stradivarious
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Posted - 2006.04.06 16:52:00 -
[65]
As both a stab user and someone who tackles others frequently, I agree there is a problem with over useage. Personally the situation determines if I mount them, because I definately don't mount them all or even most of the time Filling your low slots completely.... just ugh... The only exception being a travel config....
My personal reasons for using them usually deal with fighting outnumbered in a ship over 1000 times the value of my opponents, where certain people try to throw as many people as they can against you in order to win, usually as cannon fodder.... In a combat situation, I have NEVER mounted more then 2(just enough to allow me to escape from a single 20k isk tech 1 tackler, so his 30 buddies don't get an I win button, if its a fair fight and I was looking for one, 9 times out of 10 I stay until he either receives backup or I am outside of 20km anyways... I believe in fact I have only engaged in pvp once with more then 2 mounted and that was because somebody had the bright idea to pursue me while I was traveling, and that was me simply warping in to the gate at 100km instead of an IJ and sniping the pursuing interceptors as they arrived(Hey I'm not stupid :) )
Certain elements always get outraged that their tackler could not hold said victim for their buddies to kill, tough **** imo, either co-ordinate better to get multiple tacklers on the target in the first place if you absolutely *must* outnumber them, re-configure your ship for stronger tackling or simply change your tactics. Fight smarter, not come to the forums and whine....
Everyone uses stabs at one time or another, do I think it "gimps" my setup? Nope, my preferred ships and tactics are pure guerilla fighter type usually, superior tactics and mobility, small unit actions etc... And my k/d ratio, including taking on battleships solo with a HAC(and yes, winning), fighting in the middle of an enemy mixed fleet solo, taking out their smaller targets while avoiding their battleships guns at close/moderate range(for a BS) reflects this I believe...
Anyways to get back on topic, yes, there is a problem with overuseage, and how does ccp prevent overuseage?(at least they think they do) Stacking penalties.... Should use a "stacking-limit" in this situation imo, 1 or 2 max, no more allowed...
I like to think of myself as the chlorine in the gene pool.
Click the sig for the VC KB |

Stradivarious
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Posted - 2006.04.06 17:10:00 -
[66]
Oh and before someone gets on the issue of corp mates of mine using stabs on frigs and the like, yes I agree it is lame to mount them on frigs, you won't find me flying a frig with them on it, tech 2 or otherwise.
As for slamming the afforementioned corp mates, you really should take a step back and examine the situation again. Hmm the stabs are visible in the video, certain opponents always get irate when they see them, maybe he's doing it intentionally because he thinks its funny to watch you whine? Just an idea, oh wait I fly with him, maybe more then an idea :P But keep getting irate, we get a kick out of it laughing at you on our teamspeak :)
I like to think of myself as the chlorine in the gene pool.
Click the sig for the VC KB |

Barendar
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Posted - 2006.04.06 17:13:00 -
[67]
I've posted this before, i shall psot it again.
My idea to make people shut up about stabs:
Make the effect of scramblers cumulative. Each time the scrambler cycles it stacks the added strength onto that of the last cycle, and keeps going.
So 1st cycle: 1 strength 2nd: 2 strengh 3rd: 3 strength
or if you're using a 7.5km one: 2 strengh 4 strengh 6 strengh
etc etc etc.
The idea is, the 1st few cycles, you're free to warp away, after that, you're scrambled. The more stabs you have, the more cycles you have to warp away. The more scramblers you have, the faster you'll lock him down.
It won't effect travelers since by the time the scramblers cycled enough times to lock you down if you havn't warpd, you're already dead.
It will allow combat ships a chance to escape at the very start of a fight. If they fight back, they've commited themselves to staying since your scrambler will cycle enough to lock them down.
I'd suggest upping the amount stabs give to 2 as well, scrambler cycle times would need tweaking as well to make it well balanced out.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.04.06 17:58:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Cummilla on 06/04/2006 18:00:05 WCS whining is getting to be ridiculous.
I never have a problem with targets slipping away because of WCS. Most engagements I'm involved solo are with a close range setup with a minimum of 2 points of tackling, 3 if I'm in my ishtar. When in a duo situation I usually have 4 to 5 points on the target minimum. Perhaps the OP's problem is being scared of fighting in close???
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Zed Nash
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Posted - 2006.04.06 18:29:00 -
[69]
Originally by: HippoKing and whiners are killing the forums 
QFE.
Stabs are balanced, the only ones complaining about them are solo-pirates looking for an easy solo-kill. Period.
This isn't a problem in gangs, even 2-person gangs. This isn't a problem in 0.0, where bubbles and interdictors are options. This isn't a problem.
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Adrian Steel
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:00:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Adrian Steel on 06/04/2006 19:04:51 An enlightening saga from a galaxy far, far away:
It has been stated and proven before, but let it be known again: real men structure tank. If you're structure tanking properly, you can't use your low slots for warp core stabilizers. If you're using warp core stabilizers, you're not structure tanking properly. Therefore, all warp core stabilizer users are panzies because they don't structure tank to prove their manliness. You, the complainer about stabilizers, are also a panzy because in all likelyhood, you do not structure tank either.
Your Solution: Fellate yourselves during an e-peen session on the forums complaining about stabilizers. You feel yourself to be high and mighty, above the stabilizer users. Afterall, the vocal minority should have the right to win all the time.
Reality: You are no better than the stabilizer users themselves, because neither of you structure tank like men. Glazed over after reading post after post of complaints, the dev's grudgingly give in, their way of begging you not to talk anymore of this. Why lose an e-peening customer when you can suck his bank account dry by reeling him in with auto-fellate software? We can lure the whole Counter-Strike crowd in while we're at it!
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:12:00 -
[71]
Its cool how a dev has never replied to one of these threads.
Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild CAPS LOCK IS THE CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:15:00 -
[72]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Its cool how a dev has never replied to one of these threads.
Yes, and doesn't that tell people something about the dev's opinion of stabs?
Respect the Domi. Or else.
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Adrian Steel
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:19:00 -
[73]
If I can recall correctly, I believe Tuxford posted on one of these threads to say that stabilizers were under review.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:19:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Krulla
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Its cool how a dev has never replied to one of these threads.
Yes, and doesn't that tell people something about the dev's opinion of stabs?
Someone didn't listen to the Vegas dev chat! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |

Salmod
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:37:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Barendar I've posted this before, i shall psot it again.
My idea to make people shut up about stabs:
Make the effect of scramblers cumulative. Each time the scrambler cycles it stacks the added strength onto that of the last cycle, and keeps going.
So 1st cycle: 1 strength 2nd: 2 strengh 3rd: 3 strength
or if you're using a 7.5km one: 2 strengh 4 strengh 6 strengh
etc etc etc.
The idea is, the 1st few cycles, you're free to warp away, after that, you're scrambled. The more stabs you have, the more cycles you have to warp away. The more scramblers you have, the faster you'll lock him down.
It won't effect travelers since by the time the scramblers cycled enough times to lock you down if you havn't warpd, you're already dead.
It will allow combat ships a chance to escape at the very start of a fight. If they fight back, they've commited themselves to staying since your scrambler will cycle enough to lock them down.
I'd suggest upping the amount stabs give to 2 as well, scrambler cycle times would need tweaking as well to make it well balanced out.
Interesting idea... 
-[ salmod ]- |

Killrat
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:39:00 -
[76]
Twaddle
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:44:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: LUKEC stabs are stupid and for weak. The only logical consequence is blobbing. So the ultimate thing is ec-p8r... no stabs can save you there.
Hahaha :)
Oh, btw:
Stab Whine Response
Yeah... Im really impressed, i guess you're one of the "cool kids" by making stuff like that.
I think we stated enough times that its not about "learning" how to play mkay?
We're(at least some of us) talking about how its ruining the game, but a change is already on the way, so until then, ill be flying with enough scramblers to hold my enenmy down.
Silly Comments ftl.
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Soul Shepherd
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:46:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Soul Shepherd on 06/04/2006 19:45:55 LMAO
Another "WCS suxxors" thread  ----------------------------------------------- If something goes wrong, it's because you forgot to shoot a slave.... |

LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:49:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Soul Shepherd Edited by: Soul Shepherd on 06/04/2006 19:45:55 LMAO
Another "WCS suxxors" thread 
LMAO Another useless comment! 
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Solant
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:50:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Solant on 06/04/2006 19:51:23 To the OP:
As huge as your post was, and believe me I share the general distate for WCS, this game has been around for a long time, and (correct me if I'm wrong here) many people die in pvp every day. So, maybe you can't kill people, but it is possible... adapt or die.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.04.06 19:56:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Salmod
Originally by: Barendar I've posted this before, i shall psot it again.
My idea to make people shut up about stabs:
Make the effect of scramblers cumulative. Each time the scrambler cycles it stacks the added strength onto that of the last cycle, and keeps going.
So 1st cycle: 1 strength 2nd: 2 strengh 3rd: 3 strength
or if you're using a 7.5km one: 2 strengh 4 strengh 6 strengh
etc etc etc.
The idea is, the 1st few cycles, you're free to warp away, after that, you're scrambled. The more stabs you have, the more cycles you have to warp away. The more scramblers you have, the faster you'll lock him down.
It won't effect travelers since by the time the scramblers cycled enough times to lock you down if you havn't warpd, you're already dead.
It will allow combat ships a chance to escape at the very start of a fight. If they fight back, they've commited themselves to staying since your scrambler will cycle enough to lock them down.
I'd suggest upping the amount stabs give to 2 as well, scrambler cycle times would need tweaking as well to make it well balanced out.
Interesting idea... 
Wow, that is a VERY good idea actually, I really hope a dev reads this.
Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild CAPS LOCK IS THE CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME
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Nyabinghi
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Posted - 2006.04.06 20:17:00 -
[82]
I don't get it? There is already a single module warp disruptor (+2) that will disable any single module warp core stab ship (-1). Am I wrong? Not to mention if there are two offenders both disrupting a single target well I don't think anyone could fit enough stabs to escape them. So I hardly see where the unfairness is for the aggressor.
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.04.06 20:19:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nyabinghi I don't get it? There is already a single module warp disruptor (+2) that will disable any single module warp core stab ship (-1). Am I wrong? Not to mention if there are two offenders both disrupting a single target well I don't think anyone could fit enough stabs to escape them. So I hardly see where the unfairness is for the aggressor.
How about the fact that there is ALOT of people using 4-6.. for pvp, on a daily basis.
/Mav
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Danari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 20:38:00 -
[84]
My idea is to give scrams a % chance of getting the tackle down, like with jammers. 1 pt, 4 wcs gets a 25% chance perhaps.
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Hellraiza666
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Posted - 2006.04.06 20:40:00 -
[85]
problem with stabs is that they promote ganks. You either kill them be4 they can warp, or u bring enough m8s to scramble the wcs *****. The ***** moans and whines abt how u ganked him, and then next time fits more wcs. So then you have to bring even more m8s. And then he whines how u had to bring even more to gank him.
Maybe if 9/10 didnt fit stabs then ganks wudnt be a necessity to pvp.
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Pant Alones
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Posted - 2006.04.06 20:50:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
For every stabbed person you fight, there's another that isn't stabbed.
You sure about that?  ------------------------
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Imode
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Posted - 2006.04.06 21:37:00 -
[87]
Meh, stabs are what they are...
Whats really killing PVP is sniping and the lack of any effective way to neutralize safespots. ____________________________ Signature file size to large, please keep it under 24000 bytes - Petwraith How's this? -imo
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Bazman
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Posted - 2006.04.06 21:50:00 -
[88]
WCS removes the need to think.
WCS Kills braincells
WCS make meh cry -----
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |

Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.04.06 23:07:00 -
[89]
What is it with every player out there thinking that the game needs to be stacked for their particular style of play?
Miners want a 5 million m3 hold, refining on ship, and 18 hi slots for miners. PVPers/gankers want to be absoluely 100% sure that nobody can ever get away. Carebears want all pirates and PVPers IRL shot in the face....
Personally, I think that if someone wants to stack their rig for running rather than taking damage/fighting, they should be able too. It should always be easier to get away than to attack, things shouldn't be stacked in the pirates favor from the beginning...
the one case in which I think the OP has a point, is when someone is engaged in a fight, then uses their 6 WCS stack to warp out when they're losing (never mind that if they didn't dedicate so much to WCS, maybe they wouldn't have been losing as badly...). To this end, I think that the suggestion of weapons interfering with WCS is a good one. Or more specifically, I think that weapons should maybe interfere with the warp drive itself. Say, your warp drive can't be brought online with any weapons active, and it takes a certain amount of time to bring the warp drive online (that time dependent on the size of the ship). That way, if someone is WCS stacked and just runs when ambushed, they can still get away. If they stay and fight however, they need to completely disengage their guns, and wait a certain amount of time before their warp core is back online before they can run. It adds the interesting twist that pirates/pvpers don't *neccesarily* need to use scram at all, because once someone fires they're more or less committed to sticking around for a bit.
Nerfing the players ability to avoid a fight if they have the sense and skills to is a bad idea IMO... Forcing them to make a hard choice between fight or flee is a good idea IMO.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.06 23:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: MadGaz Main problem is it's easier to fit wcs into a combat setup than it is to fit scramblers. Could give WCS a -10% cap penalty, saying some RP bull that the warp core stabilisers draw more power to ensure the warp core doesn't get disrupted.
Yes, because things like sniper setups need SO much cap to fire 1400mm's. RANGE penalty, ffs.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
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