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Sonya Rayner
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Posted - 2006.07.03 00:37:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Sonya Rayner on 03/07/2006 00:42:11
Edited by: Sonya Rayner on 03/07/2006 00:41:12
Edited by: Sonya Rayner on 03/07/2006 00:38:16
Here goes experiment:
Screenshots
before: Linky #1
after: Linky #2
Shield/cap statistics before/after applying of two Basic Shield Power Relay (sorry could not find full SPR, but this will do it too).
It's Bonuses Are:
Capacitor Recharge Time: +20%
Shield Recharge Time: -10%
Ship's Stats Before:
Capacity: 4641
Recharge Time: 243 sec
Shields: 4777 HP
Recharge Time: 1757 sec
Ship's Stats After:
Capacity: 4641 (0% change)
Recharge Time: 350 sec (350/243 - 1 = 44.03% change, 1.2*1.2 - 1 = 44% projected) (0% change)
Shields: 4777 HP
Recharge Time: 1423 sec (1423/1757 - 1 = -19.01% change, 0.9*0.9 - 1 = -19% projected)
As we see, it actually adds 19% to recharge rate of shields instead of 20% if we count 2x10% and reduces cap recharge rate by 44% instead of 2x20%=40%...
The same rule applies to every shield/capacitor/powergrid/cpu/cargo space/armor/hull/speed update. you just need to insert the right measurements into it (do not confuse the Recharge Rate and the Recharge Time mods. Shield Rechargers/Cap Rechargers and similar affects time not rate, if you'd calculate on recharge rate you'd get different results, as the rate is calculated by dividing capacity/hp by their recharge time (average), so actually by decreasing the recharge time you increase recharge rate and vice-versa).
For another example, if we use two energized Regenerative Membrane (adds 12.5% armor hp each) we would get not the 25% in armor HP increase, but 1.25*1.25 - 1 = 56.25% The same rule applies when adding bonuses of PDUs to shields/capacitor capacity...
The truth is out there...
...Seek it out! |
Mik Nostrebor
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Posted - 2006.07.03 00:42:00 -
[92]
Excellent guide. I have a RTF version of it on my corps site. I hope that is alright by you. It is at
Linkage
Thanks,
Mik
Orks corp is looking for new blood in Heimatar. Visit our site |
Druge
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Posted - 2006.07.04 21:58:00 -
[93]
Thank you for your time and effort. Haven't read it all yet, but I finally may be on my way to understand the difference between passive and active "Tanking". 
Again many thanks
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Melmaevus
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Posted - 2006.07.11 03:55:00 -
[94]
Bump
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Striker IV
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 20:41:00 -
[95]
bump- this is an awesome post bout tanking
Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
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Jiefei
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Posted - 2006.08.17 15:20:00 -
[96]
BUMP! please sticky for new people
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Mark Weston
Caldari
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.15 11:13:00 -
[97]
Well if it can't get a sticky, it gets a bump.
Hi Friedrick!
New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Arkyk
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Posted - 2006.09.22 01:29:00 -
[98]
Bump.
This was an extremely helpful guide for a newbie like myself, and it deserves a sticky if at all possible.
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Derentis Dormada
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Posted - 2006.09.25 07:49:00 -
[99]
Nice guide indeed :D
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Max Roth
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:05:00 -
[100]
Great guide, cheers chief.
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Ricky Starwalker
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Posted - 2006.09.28 06:37:00 -
[101]
Fantastic post! Next time I'm in-game, I'm going shopping for resistance gear. Thanks for a great duie!
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Striker IV
Gallente
Brother in Arms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.30 04:19:00 -
[102]
i REALLY like this original post, and i still refer to it.
Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
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Kayleigh Lothian
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.11 23:09:00 -
[103]
Realy nice guide, thanks.
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Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.10.27 18:12:00 -
[104]
bumpage for the new folks.
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BondJamesBond
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:59:00 -
[105]
Amazing post, simply amazing!!!
Make this a sticky! Wow, clarity, detail, and cogent writing. Not often seen. I'm printing this out.
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Trogbadinator
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:40:00 -
[106]
/bump
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Jai Gar
Agents of the Veiled Dragon
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:08:00 -
[107]
Hasn't been bumped in a while...
/bump
Any Advanced tanking guides out there for those of us with some skills and not a lot of knowledge on how best to apply them?
Just got a Hyperion and really want to start doing level IV missions... Could use a good guide on Armor tanking it (took it out on Mordus Headhunter mission and had to warp out twice due to swarming me! ugh)...
See? I have high skills, but just can't seem to apply them in the right way... It's like I know how an engine works, but that doesn't mean I can be an Indy Pit Crew Boss...
:)
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Frog29
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Posted - 2007.02.20 06:29:00 -
[108]
Bumped
Very nice guide..... wasn't too sure about tanking before this... now I just need to decide PST or AST... 
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Daftex Muleson
Minmatar
UNITED KINGDOM MAYHEM
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Posted - 2007.02.20 10:58:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Daftex Muleson on 20/02/2007 10:58:27
 Originally by: Neckbone
Edited by: Neckbone on 06/04/2006 19:36:28
I've become kind of well-known in Pator Tech School for flying L2 missions in my Rifter with a yawn (most of them, there's been one mission that was really hard, and one not possible: Human Cattle 3 and up). My Rifter has 3x 150mm AC's, 1x Rocket Launcher, a Cold-Gas AB, and Medium + Small Extender (1275 shields), with 3x Shield Power Relay (15 shield/s max regen). It's a monster of a frigate with very minimal skill requirements, built with all T1 modules (except the AB, it works fine with a 1MN, too). The shield power relays really do slaughter the cap regen, but when you're only drain is an afterburner, who cares?
....
This is an awesome setup for a Rifter. I have mine set up nearly exactly the same except I use T2 150mm autocannons, a T2 small extender and the best named Medium extender in mids and 2 shield power relays and a Power Diagnostic System in lows.
With my skills this gives me 1896hp shield and a recharge rate of 296 = an average of 16.77/sec (1896 / 296 * 2.5). You can do most lvl2 missions in this and go ratting in 0.1 space successfully. I have done the Human Cattle mission sections 1 to 4...missed 5 as I was away for too long!(and personally, I think HC 3 is the hardest of the 5 having now done all 5 in a stabber.) HC is a bit hair-raising and you need to be prepared for some warping in and out, but it's real fun in a little ship! I can also solo into 5/10 plexes, although I don't have the fire power to take out the BS rat spawns of course! 
IMHO, too many newcomers to EVE think they must get out of frigates fast and into a destroyer or cruiser. I think it's a mistake as you are much easier to hit in larger ships and if you only have poor-ish skills, you'll get clobbered quickly. Frigates are cheap....less hit on the pocket if you lose one. Average skills will tank a frigate quite adequately and you are small and fast which means you can take on bigger rat spawns and laugh as their Heavy Missiles explode all around you but do little to no damage as you orbit them at speed
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Strill
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Posted - 2007.04.10 04:03:00 -
[110]
You have a very comprehensive thread, however, you don't seem to understand how percentages and inverses work. You say that "Shield Operation: 5% faster regen û not as good as Shield Management, but close!" That's not true. At level 5 of this skill, your recharge rate looks like the following:
(max capacitor) / [(time to regen) * .75]
1/.75 is 1.333... which means that your regeneration rate is being increased by 33% at level 5.
Quote:
Disadvantages of Active Shield Tanking û You pay a price for your regen-on-demand. Active Shield Tanking is inherently less damage-efficient than Armor Tanking, as the total base resistance on Shields is 120% - 0% Electro Magnetic, 60% Explosive, 40% Kinetic, 20% Thermal. Armor Tanking, in contrast, has a base value of 140% - 60% EM, 10% Exp, 35% Kinetic, 35% Thermal. Active Shield Tanking uses a great deal more capacitor energy than Armor Tanking, as well û Armor is repaired at least a 2 armor to 1 capacitor ratio or better, often as high as 3-to-1. Since Passive Shield Tanking uses no capacitor at all, it is vastly superior in this regard.
You also make some incorrect statements about resistance percentages by assuming that the benefit they give is directly related to the percentage listed. The benefit that resistances give is exponential. (technically it's proportional to the function 1/(1-x) where 0<x<1, but those of you who don't like math can think of it as exponential) For example, 50% resistance means you can take 2x the damage you could before. Now consider that 60% resistance means you can take 2.5x the damage you could before. That additional 10% is worth half as much as the 50% before it.
So, converting the base resistances into multipliers, shields have:
2.5x more hp vs Explosive
1.666x more hp vs kinetic
1.25x more hp vs thermal
And armor has:
2.5x more hp vs EM
1.11x more hp vs explosive
1.53x more hp vs thermal
1.53x more hp vs kinetic
Although you were correct that the overall base resistances of armor are better than shield, you were incorrect in your reasoning.
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SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.10 04:38:00 -
[111]
Edited by: SonOTassadar on 10/04/2007 04:36:41
Originally by: Strill
-snip-
Are you criticizing (however constructive it may be) a year old guide? A lot has changed since last year. 
-----
Griffin -- 100,000 ISK
ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK
Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK
War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |
Audurin
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:20:00 -
[112]
Originally by: SonOTassadar
Edited by: SonOTassadar on 10/04/2007 04:36:41
Originally by: Strill
-snip-
Are you criticizing (however constructive it may be) a year old guide? A lot has changed since last year.
Both the OP and the comments here are very interesting! But what sorts of things have changed? At least I have a better feel for the overall sorts of things to consider about the different types, and which modules are used... if they still are used.
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.04.10 21:22:00 -
[113]
Sticky for the good guide? Or is this a copy from an original on another forum?
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Vertex Eisenstein
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.11 01:28:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Vertex Eisenstein on 11/04/2007 01:25:19
This guide is now stickied within the user guides sticky.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=437508
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Extazy
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Posted - 2007.05.11 19:42:00 -
[115]
thx a lot for the good info
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Ranis Garr
Amarr
GalSpan Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.09 04:27:00 -
[116]
I found this guide to be very useful.
Sticky, might I suggest.
Well done!
--------------------------
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BluOrange
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.09 06:18:00 -
[117]
Very nice article.
I suspect that some newbies might be confused when you talk about active and passive resistance mods after discussing active and passive tanking - it would be easy to get the false impression that you use active resistance mods when active tanking, and passive resists when passive tanking, whereas the opposite is more likely to be the case. So you might want to clarify that a little, and say that the activeness of your resists has no relationship to the activeness of your tank.
Recruitment FAQ |
LeBelInconnu
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.07.09 10:37:00 -
[118]
Thanks a lot for the information. I didn't realize there were compensation skills. I think that will be very helpful since I'm using tech 2 shield boosters and resistance amplifiers.
If this hasn't been answered already (sorry after reading the whole thing I haven't read the 4 pages of responses) what are general thoughts on afterburners/microwarpdrives in place of having another mid slot for more resistance or something else?
At the moment I am not researching and altering my ships to face specific damage types, instead focusing on putting shield resist on to what I'm weakest against. If I saved the afterburner or micro slot I could be using passive resistance to both EM and Thermal, and with compensation at decent levels I could approach 50%+ damage resistance on average to various types in a frigate. The 5% passive bonus would mean 32+5 = 37% right not 32 * 1.05 = pretty much no difference?
How does going fast compare with being tougher in regards to the damage you'll be taking? I imagine maybe it's a complex question, but any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks again.
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xKlone Z
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Posted - 2007.09.13 04:29:00 -
[119]
Thank you for this guide, it has helped alot.
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SnowFX
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Posted - 2007.09.26 09:43:00 -
[120]
i have a question?
you said that when damage is done it first akes your ships resist into account then your hardener cuts it from there...
i been using hardeners and one adaptive plating ( which increases all the resist by a little)
does that mean that i am hurting my self cause the first two cuts are small? or is this a good thing?
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