i.e its just as effective to shoot one ship with 1 ship as its with over 2000. It would seem reasonable that at a certain point any more ships shooting a single target should just be "overkill" and not be effective at all...

This overkill point is when the combined alpha exceeds the ship's EHP.

The biggest force multiplier in Eve is knowledge. And that cannot be beaten by numbers.

Ever been in a tidi fight?

My question is should there be any limits on force multipliers?

One argument is that a force multiplier allows a smaller force to engage a larger one. Which is true but without any limit or diminishing return this stays true for larger forces and such can zero out any gains gained for the smaller force.

Yup.

You just need to understand that, all things being equal, the side with more pilots will always win a fight. "Force Multipliers" operate on the assumption that not all of the other things will be equal - they'll have more AHACs than you, but your 6 logistics ships will keep your pilots on the field longer and allow you to win a protracted fight. If they have more pilots than you AND more logi, all other things being equal, you're always gonna lose that engagement.

Force multipliers, by design, only meet their potential if they are not being countered. If the enemy fleet also has logi on the field, and also has ECM boats jamming your logi, and also has SD boats wrecking the lock time of your logi, you are just absolutely outmatched and any cry to "fix" the game mechanics to allow you to win will fall on deaf ears.

One of the most common is Remote Repair modules.

My question is should there be any limits on force multipliers?


So something like Remote Repair would scale without being out of balance.


So Great EvE player base should there be a limit on force multipliers or not?

i dont think this is about win or loose its about number.

I think it has to do more with enjoyable gameplay.

should more people always be a good thing?

IMO no it should not.

It might be a strategic assest to have more people to attack more objects but this should not mean that more people = win.

How does the EvE community feel about force multipliers vs. diminishing returns game play mechanics.

Currently there are several force multiplier mechanics in EvE that offer zero diminishing returns.

One of the most common is Remote Repair modules.

My question is should there be any limits on force multipliers?

One argument is that a force multiplier allows a smaller force to engage a larger one. Which is true but without any limit or diminishing return this stays true for larger forces and such can zero out any gains gained for the smaller force.

I think it would be fair to say their YES there should be diminishing returns built into any force multiplier in EVE.

Personally I think the best way would be found in Fleet mechanics.

It would be logical that when you are in a fleet you are sharing information about your ship with other ships...

A squad would be the closest connected as there is less ships to monitor and then would go all the way out to non fleet member where critical information is not shared.

So something like Remote Repair would scale without being out of balance.

So now Remote repair for a squad member would be 100% effective then 75% on a wing member then 50% on a fleet member and then 25% on a non fleet member.

This too should also apply for application of damage. Tough I am unsure how this should scale I feel that its just bad that the force multiplier that is "blob" has zero diminishing returns...

i.e its just as effective to shoot one ship with 1 ship as its with over 2000. It would seem reasonable that at a certain point any more ships shooting a single target should just be "overkill" and not be effective at all...

So Great EvE player base should there be a limit on force multipliers or not?

One argument is that a force multiplier allows a smaller force to engage a larger one. Which is true but without any limit or diminishing return this stays true for larger forces and such can zero out any gains gained for the smaller force.

And all is well with the universe where the 1000 man blob can insta-explode the 30 man fleet that tried to take them on, with not even as much as a scratch on the paintwork.

EVE is not about "fair", and I don't think ship "balancing" means what you want it to mean. If you want to win, I suggest you find at least 999 friends who are better pilots on average than that 1000 man blob.

ECM is the answer to your question

I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but I do have a problem with your terminology. Logistics repair doesn't qualify as a force modifier: it doesn't kill the enemy any faster. My understanding of force modifiers would cover things like command ships with links which affect DPS (R.O.F., etc.)

Logistics ships and other things which affect fleet "toughness" (e.g. command links which increase/harden shields/armor) are something, but I don't think the proper label is "force multiplier".

MDD

How does the EvE community feel about force multipliers vs. diminishing returns game play mechanics.

Yes everything should have diminishing returns. IMO the worst offender is damage applied to a single target by multiple sources, that leads to alpha strikes, which afaik, nobody likes to be on the receiving end of.

Now now, you idiots, we don't want a situation where a group has trouble winning because they have too much firepower on the field.

Now now, you idiots, we don't want a situation where a group has trouble winning because they have too much firepower on the field.

Now now, you idiots, we don't want a situation where a group has trouble winning because they have too much firepower on the field.

Yes everything should have diminishing returns. IMO the worst offender is damage applied to a single target by multiple sources, that leads to alpha strikes, which afaik, nobody likes to be on the receiving end of.

Ecm is also a force multiplier

Now now, you idiots, we don't want a situation where a group has trouble winning because they have too much firepower on the field.

It is also a counter to remote reping and allows a smaller group to take on a larger group.

It is also a counter to remote repairing.

so the counter to one force multiplyer is another force multiplyer?

thats saying i know lets dig our way out of the hole!

so the counter to one force multiplyer is another force multiplyer?

thats saying i know lets dig our way out of the hole!