| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1731
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 17:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
How does the EvE community feel about force multipliers vs. diminishing returns game play mechanics.
Currently there are several force multiplier mechanics in EvE that offer zero diminishing returns.
One of the most common is Remote Repair modules.
My question is should there be any limits on force multipliers?
One argument is that a force multiplier allows a smaller force to engage a larger one. Which is true but without any limit or diminishing return this stays true for larger forces and such can zero out any gains gained for the smaller force.
I think it would be fair to say their YES there should be diminishing returns built into any force multiplier in EVE.
Personally I think the best way would be found in Fleet mechanics.
It would be logical that when you are in a fleet you are sharing information about your ship with other ships...
A squad would be the closest connected as there is less ships to monitor and then would go all the way out to non fleet member where critical information is not shared.
So something like Remote Repair would scale without being out of balance.
So now Remote repair for a squad member would be 100% effective then 75% on a wing member then 50% on a fleet member and then 25% on a non fleet member.
This too should also apply for application of damage. Tough I am unsure how this should scale I feel that its just bad that the force multiplier that is "blob" has zero diminishing returns...
i.e its just as effective to shoot one ship with 1 ship as its with over 2000. It would seem reasonable that at a certain point any more ships shooting a single target should just be "overkill" and not be effective at all...
So Great EvE player base should there be a limit on force multipliers or not?
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1731
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 17:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:MeBiatch wrote: i.e its just as effective to shoot one ship with 1 ship as its with over 2000. It would seem reasonable that at a certain point any more ships shooting a single target should just be "overkill" and not be effective at all...
This overkill point is when the combined alpha exceeds the ship's EHP.
pretty much eve fights used to be all about dynamics now its more akin to how a tournament fight plays out... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1731
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 19:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Obvious Cyno wrote:The biggest force multiplier in Eve is knowledge. And that cannot be beaten by numbers.
Ever been in a tidi fight? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1731
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 20:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:MeBiatch wrote: My question is should there be any limits on force multipliers?
One argument is that a force multiplier allows a smaller force to engage a larger one. Which is true but without any limit or diminishing return this stays true for larger forces and such can zero out any gains gained for the smaller force.
Yup. You just need to understand that, all things being equal, the side with more pilots will always win a fight. "Force Multipliers" operate on the assumption that not all of the other things will be equal - they'll have more AHACs than you, but your 6 logistics ships will keep your pilots on the field longer and allow you to win a protracted fight. If they have more pilots than you AND more logi, all other things being equal, you're always gonna lose that engagement. Force multipliers, by design, only meet their potential if they are not being countered. If the enemy fleet also has logi on the field, and also has ECM boats jamming your logi, and also has SD boats wrecking the lock time of your logi, you are just absolutely outmatched and any cry to "fix" the game mechanics to allow you to win will fall on deaf ears.
i dont think this is about win or loose its about number.
I think it has to do more with enjoyable gameplay.
should more people always be a good thing?
IMO no it should not.
It might be a strategic assest to have more people to attack more objects but this should not mean that more people = win.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1731
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 22:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:MeBiatch wrote: One of the most common is Remote Repair modules.
My question is should there be any limits on force multipliers?
So something like Remote Repair would scale without being out of balance.
So Great EvE player base should there be a limit on force multipliers or not?
ECM is the answer to your question
Ecm is also a force multiplier
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1732
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 23:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Now now, you idiots, we don't want a situation where a group has trouble winning because they have too much firepower on the field.
that already happened two weeks ago when cfc lost 300 dreads. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1732
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 23:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:MeBiatch wrote: How does the EvE community feel about force multipliers vs. diminishing returns game play mechanics.
Yes everything should have diminishing returns. IMO the worst offender is damage applied to a single target by multiple sources, that leads to alpha strikes, which afaik, nobody likes to be on the receiving end of.
agreed but i am unsure of a solution for that.
maybe some formula that reduces chance to hit or damage applied.
perhaps a formula based on sig radius of the ship vrs total sig resolution.
like a frig has 50 m3 of surface area so you can only shoot up to that much before any extra shots just miss or are destroyed by the other items hiting the target ship. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1732
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 00:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Caviar Liberta wrote:MeBiatch wrote: One of the most common is Remote Repair modules.
My question is should there be any limits on force multipliers?
So something like Remote Repair would scale without being out of balance.
So Great EvE player base should there be a limit on force multipliers or not?
ECM is the answer to your question Ecm is also a force multiplier It is also a counter to remote repairing.
so the counter to one force multiplyer is another force multiplyer?
thats saying i know lets dig our way out of the hole! There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1732
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 05:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Force Multipliers are things that multiply every single ship in the fleet by the same amount. Logi are not a true force multiplier, because they can only rep one ship at a time fully. They are more additive. Boosts are a true force multiplier. Because no matter how many ships in fleet, each ship still gets the full bonus.
Anyway, start with Tessellation, then go to line of effect for weapons. (Which also allows for weapon shots scattering, misses actually missing randomly rather than shooting a specific spot on your collision bubble which is off the ship, and impacts on different spots of your hull, and for ship facing to matter potentially) And suddenly you have a lot of strategy, and the blob is no longer automatically king.
Much better fix than trying to come up with some crazy mathematical scaling which you can be sure will get abused constantly by friendly fire methods.
ccp has alot of devs some are based on this others on that. they already are testing with direct x 11 so lets say by winter at latestest for tesalation.
but on point the devs who work on balance have nothing to do with tessalation There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1732
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 12:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Ptraci wrote:
You mean, a fantasy system that has no comparison in real life. Like, where concentration of fire is the absolute key to victory. Maybe the WOW people would be interested in such a system. EVE while not being real, does try to model at least some aspects of reality faithfully.
Actually, splitting fire is a real thing on the battlefield. Because you want to suppress the enemy so they can't take time to line up a clean shot and are worried about keeping their heads down themselves. You don't fire every single gun you have at a single target. So.... if you want to talk about reality, at least get it right.
Indeed
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1732
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 13:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Nivo Green wrote:So this is basically just a slowcat whine thread nothing more. . Actually, it's about making fleet combat more interesting then everyone shooting the FC's target. Its so mindlessly boring, no wonder people would rather use drone assist and go afk for the fight.
This. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1733
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 12:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Interesting points There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1734
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 14:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Grunanca wrote:Nerfing remote repair would only ruin small gangs... The small gangs will repair less, the large gangs will still just instapop any ship that gets primaried. So please leave this well working feature as it is!
If you read the op small gangs would not be affected. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
| |
|