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Miso	Posted - 2003.09.16 14:32:00 - [31] Quote: Jade, The problem is there's basically nothing out there for the very small corp or freelancer. Please don't just dismiss us like that, because there are quite a lot of us who've reached the stage where all that's left to do is join a large corp or pack it in. Sustained PvP costs a lot of money, and you can't do it unless you've either got a huge pot of cash to burn ("I'll play for a few weeks then quit") or you've got people making the money for you ("I am in a big corp"). Piracy works perfectly well as long as you have a firepower advantage over your opponents ("I am a big corp, and we have some long-serving players"). If you don't fit the above categories, it's suicide. If you want my full reasons, please contact me in game. Carp None of that is true. I am in a small corp and I have plenty to do, and we wage war pretty much fulltime. Sustained PvP does not cost much money, especially if you're clever. Convo me if your bored -------------------------------------------- Dead
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2003.09.16 14:37:00 - [32] Quote: I would, most in this game are. 100M a day solid for 2 weeks without touching a mining laser, a factory or a trade region-buy exploit once and without sticking in empire space? There are probably people with higher incomes, but I don't consider myself to be economically pathetic :-) One gets a bit tired of ISK after your 3rd battleship fitted with all the best kit, so my wallet is pretty meagre at the moment. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.09.16 14:38:00 - [33] Quote: 100M a day solid for 2 weeks without touching a mining laser, a factory or a trade region-buy exploit once and without sticking in empire space? There are probably people with higher incomes, but I don't consider myself to be economically pathetic :-) One gets a bit tired of ISK after your 3rd battleship fitted with all the best kit, so my wallet is pretty meagre at the moment. Gimme info O.o [Heterocephalus glaber]
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.09.16 14:40:00 - [34] Can I have your stuff? ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.09.16 14:43:00 - [35] You're letting the side down now athule. TTi executives think we are all poverty-stricken socialists without a clue how to make a decent wage! JF Public Forum
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2003.09.16 14:44:00 - [36] Quote: You're letting the side down now athule. TTi executives think we are all poverty-stricken socialists without a clue how to make a decent wage! Very true, maybe I should have revealed how much Yvonne Pyros was capable of earning :-) _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Carp Riddell	Posted - 2003.09.16 14:59:00 - [37] Argh! Too busy working to write a decent response! Will evemail you later Jade. Thanks for talking sense. So few do... - Carp Riddell - CEO, Innsmouth Shipping - Proud Member of Curse Alliance
Indigo Seqi	Posted - 2003.09.16 15:06:00 - [38] Edited by: Indigo Seqi on 16/09/2003 15:08:49 Jericho is that poor? That totally sucks man, I completely understand now why Jericho would have to pay 50m and taggart 500m for that war fund thingy. After all, the strongest arms should carry the heaviest load (quote) and you sound pretty underfed to me. Oh and don't ever flame Roark for posting 1 billion isk contracts to boast about his wealth anymore please, it makes your corp look rather silly now.
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2003.09.16 15:26:00 - [39] Quote: Jericho is that poor? That totally sucks man, I completely understand now why Jericho would have to pay 50m and taggart 500m for that war fund thingy. After all, the strongest arms should carry the heaviest load (quote) and you sound pretty underfed to me. Oh and don't ever flame Roark for posting 1 billion isk contracts to boast about his wealth anymore please, it makes your corp look rather silly now. If you check back through the logs, you'll find that the 50M was a personal offer from Jade - there are many of the JF who would have contributed similar amounts. As to current wealth, as I said my current wallet is much emptier and I feel no huge desire to refill it at the moment. A rather pathetic 8M currently in fact. Our corp wallet has never been very big, it's about 20M right now and I think that's the biggest it's ever been. What we do instead is pretty much as SI has done, everyone chips in to help everyone else and we build ships for each other at BYOM (not some silly internal market like TTi claims to do). Final comment on the 500M issue - it was never demanded of TTi, it was raised as an example that if Jade could afford to donate 50M then judging by numbers TTi should be able to field 500M when in fact they refused to use a single ISK to help other corporations. The other night I had 6M and a member of KIA asked for 3M to insure his battleship so that he could fight against M3G4. I did it without a moments hesitation, and if it helped towards our ultimate victory then it was money well spent even though it was half of my available funds. Did TTi ever do the same, despite the fact that a member of theirs says that anything less than 2B is peanuts? We're not socialists or communists, we just value victory at more than 400 units of megacyte. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.09.16 16:26:00 - [40] Oh dear oh dear mr Seqi, you Taggart Transpiratical banjo-bandwagon boys have never really understood what this war is about now have you? First; we have the shock wave of sycophants kicking off on Jericho as an irrelevant 3 member corporation unworthy of notice. Then we have accusations against our commitment and war effort, now, we have the likes of an erstwhile Taggart ally accusing us of Roark-esq fiscal boastings. Want to know the difference between Jericho and Taggart mr Seqi? We keep our promises. They donÆt. Go to war with Jericho at your side and count on our support and friendship. Go to war with Taggart colours in the alliance and you are sure of a stab in the back. The thing about the old VA was that even though Taggart were constantly leveraging their huge nominal membership as a veto and lock on policy decisions they never actually committed a bean. We on the other hand bankrolled our allies with grants and loans and tried as hard as we could to keep things moving. You Space Invaders were mostly off pirating à hell, the war never touched you. This is why you honestly donÆt understand the issues. ItÆs not about how much money you have, itÆs about whether you are reliable friends and firm and solid allies. Roark flaunted his wealth while paying not a solitary isk to the war fund; he was laughing at the sacrifice his allies were making. AthuleÆs already addressed the issues of pledge levels and stuff like that, but just to make it plain. I pledged that sum to encourage TTi to put up or shut up. It was annoying me that TTi wanted a veto on policy decisions based on their apparent membership roll. I wanted them to admit that their numbers were false. Therefore I proposed a proportional levy. If TTi had offered to match me I would have considered both corporations worthy of a single vote in council. If TTi had matched the apparent proportions of member disparity (500million isk) I would have been happy to have them wield ten votes to our one. I never for one moment thought they would do it, I did think they would match my 50million. It was a political play to puncture the illusionary balloon of TTi size to limit their claim to council domination. But of course, it might also have saved the war-effort and changed the course of history. And thatÆs something else I donÆt think you understand mr Seqi, ItÆs called finesse. JF Public Forum
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.16 16:29:00 - [41] Uhhhhh. There's plenty of fights going on outside of Venal, Jade. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.09.16 16:31:00 - [42] Feel free Joshua m'dear, its thread about getting people involved, make a pitch! Love and peace. JF Public Forum
Indigo Seqi	Posted - 2003.09.16 16:38:00 - [43] Athule: If it was Jade's personal offer, I stand corrected and the first lines of my post are voided. Jade: Most of your post is totally offtopic and I won't even bother to comment on it. Making semi-funny remarks about your wealth or potential wealth like that is something I could care less about. However, I don't find it fitting if you do it yourself after you've frowned upon somebody else for that same thing before. Be it a TTI member or not.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.09.16 16:53:00 - [44] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 16/09/2003 16:53:52 I'll admit mr Seqi, I think athule was wrong to bring it up. But he was goaded by Stavros' suggestion that we were as rubbish economically as we are with PvP. You are entirely right, it has no purpose being discussed in this thread. Love and peace JF Public Forum
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2003.09.16 17:01:00 - [45] Yep agreed - I was provoked your honour! :-) _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2003.09.16 17:47:00 - [46] Quote: The problem is there's basically nothing out there for the very small corp or freelancer. Please don't just dismiss us like that, because there are quite a lot of us who've reached the stage where all that's left to do is join a large corp or pack it in. Sustained PvP costs a lot of money, and you can't do it unless you've either got a huge pot of cash to burn ("I'll play for a few weeks then quit") or you've got people making the money for you ("I am in a big corp"). Piracy works perfectly well as long as you have a firepower advantage over your opponents ("I am a big corp, and we have some long-serving players"). If you don't fit the above categories, it's suicide. I don't think that's true. Granted, large corps can give you the economic ability to field ships that you might not otherwise be able to, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing out there for freelancers. You mention piracy and PvP specifically. Combat does tend to burn through resources, but the trick is you can determine how fast those resouces get depleted. If you can't afford to replace a battleship, do it in a cruiser. If you can't afford to replace a cruiser, switch to frigates. You'll have to be more careful choosing your targets, but you'll still be fighting. What's more, you might find the extra challenge makes it more fun. Jade makes some wonderful points about nontraditional (non-mining, non-combat) things you can do in the game: Writing propaganda; Spying; Logistics and such. These are all things that can be done at a minimal cost. I have an alt character, for instance, who does this sort of thing (I won't name any names). I have trained a grand total of one skill for this character, which wasn't strictly necessary. This character acts entirely in (as Jade would put it) a meta-game mode, as an informational mercenary. She is paid to spy, spread propaganda, and be the middleperson in some shady deals. She doesn't make a huge amount of isk doing this, but her expenses are almost nil (looking at her wallet, she has spent about 10,000 isk in the last month). I have as much fun playing this character as I do my primary one. All you've got to do is use your imagination, and you'll come up with myriad possibilities. Love, Shintoko There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense
Sidus	Posted - 2003.09.16 18:49:00 - [47] 1 0wnZ 477 y0rZ b4$3 My ub3r 733t Ap0c r0x0rz It's not the size of your ship that matters... It's how many peeps you have to reign firey death down upon thine enemies from on high... ________________________________________________ "Alle warten auf das Licht - f³rchtet euch f³rchtet euch nicht - die Sonne scheint mir aus den Augen - sie wird heut Nacht nicht untergehen - und die Welt zõhlt laut bis zehn"
Sidus	Posted - 2003.09.16 18:50:00 - [48] Sorry, my inner forum troll got out. ________________________________________________ "Alle warten auf das Licht - f³rchtet euch f³rchtet euch nicht - die Sonne scheint mir aus den Augen - sie wird heut Nacht nicht untergehen - und die Welt zõhlt laut bis zehn"
Singular	Posted - 2003.09.16 18:54:00 - [49] Problem is 95% of people sit on top of a scordite rock in empire space. There is a missing link here, in terms of the mentality of going from that Scordite rock to fighting in geo-political landscapes. Baby Steps. Im Yo Huckleberreh
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.16 19:33:00 - [50] I must be missing something. I think there are more battles going on in Eve than ever before and those are just the ones revealed on the forums. Frigates are undergoing something of a renaissance and that shows that battleships, while super powerful, aren't the be all and end all. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Zorakk	Posted - 2003.09.16 19:44:00 - [51] Quote: According to some, it's very much possible to kill big things in frigates. I myself intend to try that this week or the next It is. But it takes practice, a team and coordination. Complimentary load-outs, etc. Frigs can easily take a Cruiser. The right mix can be hell on a BS. Plus it spreads out your losses if one member goes down. Losing 1 of 10 is not nearly as debilitating as losing 1 of 3. Keep in mind you only have avg of 12 to 14 sec before Concord shows up in 1.0 though. Stav - We are coming for you. Your time is short. Tell Tekforce he is next. Zorakk
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.09.16 22:10:00 - [52] Edited by: Nirvy on 16/09/2003 22:16:32 Mercenary \| The Azath
Deadmetal	Posted - 2003.09.16 23:47:00 - [53] I'm all for taking my BS to wreak havoc on evildoers... my only caveat it their bloody COST.. ye gods.. if you're an average player and don't have a "miningHo" account or somesuch.. even with insurance losing your pretty is catastrophic.. taking you (again the average player.. not the UberPlayer) a long time to get it back. Hence altho I'd dearly love to open up with 4Tachyeon beams and Cruise missiles at the hapless victum I'm still worried about losing my hard won investment. If CCP can make it less of a hurt to lose your shiny toy then PvP will rock.. but rite now, many still avoid it.. and whine about content.. LOL.. but a great point Jade.. well spoken "Human Nature - If someone put a big red button in a remote mountain cave with a sign on it 'End of the world button!! Do not push!!.. the paint wouldn't have a chance to dry."
Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2003.09.17 06:59:00 - [54] Quote: I'm all for taking my BS to wreak havoc on evildoers... my only caveat it their bloody COST.. ye gods.. if you're an average player and don't have a "miningHo" account or somesuch.. even with insurance losing your pretty is catastrophic.. taking you (again the average player.. not the UberPlayer) a long time to get it back. Not to be nasty about it, but if you can't easily replace your ship, perhaps you should be flying a cheaper ship. I'm well aware that, in many cases, it takes a costlier ship to make more isk. I'm also aware that many people don't want to fight in their ships and thus feel they can afford a bigger ship than if they were fighters. I'm not talking to those people. I'm talking to people who want to fight, but feel that it would require too much time to replace their ship if they lose it. Seriously, if you can't afford to replace your ship, you shouldn't be fighting in it. I'll repeat that. If you can't afford to replace your ship, you shouldn't be fighting in it. I don't mean give up on fighting. But if you can't afford to replace your ship, fight in a cheaper ship. Someone once posted (I forget who) that real power is having the resources to replace your ship five times. If you've got that set aside (and this doesn't have to be much. I can outfit a fair combat frigate for ~ 50,000 isk), you don't have to worry about combat. You can jump into fights with impunity, not because you are invincible but because you can afford to lose. Even if you (the player) are inexperienced at combat, you can jump in. I guarantee nothing will teach you about PvP combat like losing a ship or two. --------------------------------- Quote: Problem is 95% of people sit on top of a scordite rock in empire space. There is a missing link here, in terms of the mentality of going from that Scordite rock to fighting in geo-political landscapes. I don't see this as a problem. We're all (supposed to be) adults here, so presumably we all have at least a modicum of intelligence and imagination. If that Scordite rock-sitter is dissatisfied, they can look around and see other possibilities. It doesn't have to be all at once. Like you say, baby steps. When I first started playing Eve, I sat on top of a Veldspar rock for a couple of days. That convinced me that I hated it. I'd gotten the usual eve-mail from my NPC agent, so I gave agent missions a try. That was more fun, so I did that for a while. After a few days that got boring, too, so I started listening on the various chat channels. I listened to the recruiting channel for a few days, talking to various recruiters and getting an idea about what various corps did. I ended up picking one of the corps whose CEO said he wanted to get into smuggling and black marketeering. Within a few days I was in Crielere during the ring-building event, participating in all sorts of things that were much more interesting than agent missions or sitting on that Veldspar rock. I ended up getting blown up a few times, but I was having a blast. It didn't take long to get there, either. A week and a half from sitting on that first Veldspar rock to my first PvP experience (which didn't go well. That's another story, though...). If I can make this mental jump, anyone can. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense
Miso	Posted - 2003.09.17 08:16:00 - [55] Shintoko: I think you've hit the nail on the head. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Hardin	Posted - 2003.09.17 09:28:00 - [56] I am a Scordite sitter supreme as my skills testify... Level 5 Mining Level 4 Astrogeology Level 5 Drones Level 4 Drone Interfacing Level 4 Mining Drones Level 5 Refine Level 4 Refine Efficiency I also have a battleship equipped with 7 mining lasers and 9 harvester drones and mine in 0.9 space. I have never been podded and the only ship I have ever lost was a Punisher mining in 0.0 space in the first week (despite various Oracle attempts since then) - so I guess that means that I am the bigest loser in EVE. To some sitting in front of rocks all day is their idea of torture..but to me it is simply a way to fund other habits... I know that several times a week my loyal Amarr Corp will go hunting the the Minmatar terrorists that are Oracle and I join them on these missions (despite the risk ) I am a crap PvP'er... my guns deal out less damage than the average Blood Follower and to be honest my most useful role is as a target - soaking up some fire and allowing my corp m8s to get into action. Yet these battles provide enough adrenalin to keep me going for a week... When Oracle nearly took out my Arm last week I couldn't stop grinning for an hour. I am also currently experimenting with combat setups for my battleship that no one sane would try and that amuses me too... Combined with an interest the larger EVE political situation and some of the laughs I get off these board EVE has more than enough to keep me interested for a long time. I know my way of doing things may be 'sad' but tbh I don't care. I am having fun...and I am not harming anyone else! To anyone moaning about lack of content go pick a fight with someone larger than you!
Miso	Posted - 2003.09.17 10:27:00 - [57] Hardin - you forgot a skill: Disco Balls - level 5 -------------------------------------------- Dead
Hardin	Posted - 2003.09.17 10:42:00 - [58] Ah yes - how could I forget the most important one Miso - you will be pleased to know that after a champagne celebration last night my Armageddon is now renamed 'Disco Balls' At least now your sig means something when you say you have seen my Disco Balls and lived
lunaloner	Posted - 2003.09.17 10:42:00 - [59] Quote: Luna m'dear, Jericho is a member corp of the New Venal Alliance (NVA) ... you can read all about us here Have fun! Love and peace jade my dear, you gave me a shock then, i didnt think we were friends but your acquaintance could be beneficial to all. i would like to stretch the wings of the church and spread the word of cowps throughout the universe, if you think venal needs some spiritual love and happiness dont be afraid to ask and an outreach can easily be set up in venal. may the light of cowps shine upon you. and give the victorys you rightly deserve. the church of colin cowperthwaite marching through eve and up the unibond premier division. oh shhhhhhiiiii, i got klingons on my starboard bow. the mrs will kill me.
Miso	Posted - 2003.09.17 10:59:00 - [60] Thats quality, Hardin lol I look forward to engaging your Disco Balls soon... -------------------------------------------- Dead

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