| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
   |
Posted - 2003.09.16 12:17:00 -
[1]
Feel you've achieved all there is to achieve in the universe of EVE?
Frustrated by the lack of spoon-fed content?
Yearning for a Titan to chase with manic single-minded glee?
Sheesh!
You chaps that are bored really need to get stuck in to a very brutal war. Sitting there polishing battleships is pointless. Why bother spending the time in attaining such a device of wanton destruction without a goal and intention to use it? I sometimes despair at all the chaps who say EVE is content-less; I mean honestly, just nail your colours to a political mast and set yourself some real goals.
Earning a battleship? Yeah itÆs nice to look at I suppose, but get over it, the real attainment in this game is fighting wars and winning them. ItÆs not about building your battleships; itÆs about blowing up the other guyÆs battleships and listening to the lamentation of their carebear miners as you bring the war home with economic disruption and deep strike operations.
EVE is a geo-political simulator in space. The player-led regional powers we now have are the ones who are actually achieving meaningful objectives. Owning a shiny battleship doesnÆt mean youÆve ôwonö EVE and there is nothing else to do. It means that you have earned yourself a poker chip that can be risked in the greater game, or stuck away to meaningless obscurity in your back pocket while you blindly nose about for ôthe next big thingö.
DonÆt have a battleship (or donÆt want one)? Fine, you see a hidden truth already my far-sighted friend, because battleships can be destroyed cheaply, by cruisers and frigates, and hell, if you are winning the metagame by whacking the enemyÆs battleships with your battleships, you are aceÆing the metagame by doing the same with cruisers and frigates.
DonÆt dig PVP? Well join up with a crew that do and run the logistical and manufacturing effort for them. Your name will be sweet as sugar candy when the replacement warships come rolling off the production line. Or run intelligence ops, go scouting, run psychological warfare, run communications, handle diplomacy, whatever, but for the love of god get out of the ship garage and stop polishing your sensor clusters!
Basically, what I mean to say is this. EVE doesnÆt have to end with the biggest ship and the toastiest skill set. Once you are fixed for a competent ride and decent combat skills then the time has come to find a cause to fight for and die for and enjoy the ups and downs of the political process. Consider this insurance against cynicism;
Sooner or later you will lose your prize battleship, (or cruiser or whatever) to random gate pirates, to gang-ganking, to a glitch à yeah, whatever.
When you do, youÆll wish you had lost your ship in a fight that means something.
Pledge to a war my friends; strip off all the non-replaceable rare nonsense and insure that bad boy gunboat and go hunt for enemy in ranks of bright camaraderie! If you score kills it feels like last night at the proms; if you go down in flames you have the thanks and support of your fellow soldiers and the acclaim of those who share your cause.
A war that means something is the ôXö factor in this game chaps.
A ship is just a pistol and your rare guns are the bullet.
Falling in love with your piece is self love because the cold metal canÆt love you back.
Shooting a tyrant in the face?
Now thatÆs what I call entertainment!
(DonÆt have a cause? evemail me in game, IÆll give you one ;)
JF Public Forum |
Daesdemona
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 12:30:00 -
[2]
I like that. Time to get some major conflicts started. 
Remember: War spoils and war payments are a lot more profitable than mining.
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
----------------------------------------------- |
Dalamar Sarum
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 12:30:00 -
[3]
Unfortunately Jade you are trying to impose a Role Play aspect onto a large group of people who have no interest in that or no ability at it.
I personally dislike (understatement) all these people who simply rush to the biggest ship ,never read boards and simply type 'I ownz you' in local or whatever they do.
Although the game is called a MMORPG (role playing game) there will always be people who dont role play and really thats up to them. I dont like and I personally feel reading the boards (summit mainly) and interaction with others is half the game.
I have a few alts , some of which are very experienced characters but still I prefer to conduct my business in Empire space as this is where the juicy RP wars and events are occurring.
I am an agent for my Family council and am currently very busy with many things - none of which involve rushing for a Titan or BS but for what its worth Jade , I agree with you and like your work.
|
Stavros
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 12:33:00 -
[4]
I have a big ship I will crush you, when they release the next class of ships I will be one of the first to have one.
It doesn't stop me roleplaying.
I don't know why I made this post :(
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 12:37:00 -
[5]
You don't need to roleplay to achieve a goal.
Remember TAOSP from beta (some of em stuck with Evo)? i don't remember a whole lot of RP going on with them, but they had a lot of fun creaming RaiD.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 12:57:00 -
[6]
It really isnÆt just about roleplay; itÆs about the metagame, and the strategic overlay on in-game conflicts. The reason for joining an alliance and fighting a war may, at the outset, be simply to find a meaning for your play, and worthy cause for your endeavour. But soon it becomes more, much more than that.
Think about it.
If you are part of a successful regional alliance or power block then you have access to safe territory. You have a place to resupply and rearm. You have strength to count on in attack and defence. You have allies who will supply your war needs for near cost, and comrades-in-arms that well help you make good your losses. You will learn strategy and tactics in theatre; you will see aspects of the large game that you werenÆt previously aware of. YouÆll discover just how challenging crisis negotiation and judgemnt calls can be with billions of isk worth of hardware depending on your input.
(Think about the buzz of being the fleet commander who has the go-no/go choice on 25 battleships jumping to engage a hostile fleet in system. 1.5 billion chips staked on your call? ThatÆs a big-ass responsibility and will get your heart pumping)
All these things are hard core gameplay elements that any wargamer or strategy fan will appreciate.
Speaking personally now;
I donÆt run public relations for the NVA because I am interested in role-playing with Taggart Transpiratical. I do what I do because they are the enemy, and I want to see them crushed and broken to dust in consequence for their deeds in-game.
Promoting a cause is part of the recruitment process. I am both fortunate and blessed that our cause is entirely just and right.
So, anyway, I donÆt mean to sound entirely dismissive of the role-play element. It has a place certainly, as Jade I am roleplaying the fact IÆm an ex-amarri courtesan turned gallente bon vivant psy-ops gal. But our war isnÆt about roleplay, itÆs about playing the political game of EVE and fighting a hard core strategic war-game to the detriment of our foes.
Is there a place for both?
Hell yes, the very best wartime propaganda is creative and interesting. Dull responses and crappy flame-fodder is a one way street to losing the hearts and minds of the populace, but never forget that this is a competitive game.
The trick is seeing how to measure wins and losses against the fabric of the metagame.
Love and peace.
(PS Stavros à bring your Titan mÆdear and weÆll blow it up with 12 kestrals)
JF Public Forum |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:07:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Stavros on 16/09/2003 13:09:55
Ok seeing as you want a serious debate about alliances I'll give you one.
What advantages does a regional alliance give you?
A safe place? Wrong you just makeyourself a target, people know where and when to find you at your weakest.
Good mining? Even if mining WAS a good way to make cash, which it isnt, there are plenty of places to mine that arent anywhere near regional space, with the advent of the space platforms this point will be even more mute.
Better military? Maybe but as fountain has shown there is only evol in there that can fight worth toffee (and indeed some of them are repsectable pvpers) but the majority of corps that 'need' this kind of protection are carebear corps with little or no protection. Besides this better military is far outweighed by the disadvantage of everyone know where u are all the time.
I mean for example say someone wants to attack our loose alliance, where do they go? When do they go? Nobody really knows...
As for your strategtic commander stuff thats a total joke, when we go in we go in all on one teamspeak server split up into corp rooms.
Fountain has some kind of marshall system whereby certain players have 'general' roles over the rest of their fleet, yeah FAT lot of good it did them when 17 of their members took it upon their own volition to jump into death (however questionable the tactic they KNEW we were there). Small units are much easier to command and much more lethal in combat, even evolution adopted our tactics against venal rather than their previous SEND HUGE FLEET CAMP UR STATION FOR TWO WEEKS strats.
In short your post is inane and reeks of the fact you and your corp have the pvp and ecomonic experience of my left toenail.
You continually comment on matters about which you seem to have little or no clue about, french fancy roleplaying or not there is no excuse for this level of blatant ineptitude.
Stav...
(who doesn't have some catchy catch phrasey thingy)
Also my spelling owns, its the dictionary that is wrong.
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Miso
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:08:00 -
[8]
People just don't get it do they?!
Maybe there are too many subtle political machinations going on in Eve for most players to grasp or understand. Maybe some of the events going on feel a bit clique-y, and other players feel that they can't join in.
But when all is said and done, I think Jade is right about her "polishing battleships" comment. Eve needs flux, and change, and it needs a massive war.
And lets not forget, war is terrific fun. And highly profitable too. And you'll make new friends to show your enemies, and vice versa.
War is good. War is fun.
Kitchener out! 
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Killash Larz
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:16:00 -
[9]
Jade - you've hit the nail on the head for me. That is about the most rousing speach I've read on this site.
I don't own a B/S yet however when I do maybe I'll come looking for you. Either to join you or fight you. Which ever way it will be a hell of a blast! 
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:21:00 -
[10]
Oh Stavros you are funny when you are being serious!
I wonÆt debate your points on safety, mining, military ops and such, because basically yes, you make some good counterpoints and only time will tell who is right and who is wrong. As for your force, sure, yep as well, you are basically the Mongol Horde, well equipped, and well led, capable of trashing kingdoms. Well done! ItÆs a valid strategy and one that worked historically. Still, one has to ask why the Mongols donÆt have a major voice in geopolitical interactions now-days perhaps?
On the tactics of big-ass vs small-ass fleets; yep, takes both kinds clearly but here I do have to make an admission clear to you my dear;
I personally donÆt have a clue about fleet management and IÆm pretty crap at PvP. And guess what? I leave the PvP and fleet stuff to experts. YouÆll note my post covered generalities and was a call for involvement in meaningful wars, not a treatise in how to inflict maximum fleet casualties by drone-lag-killing a warp in point. Those specifics too I leave to the experts.
Stavros hun, IÆve never claimed my corp and I are great PvP experts, were not, we are however quite good at over things. Find me claiming I can own you in combat and by all means laugh. (The titan thing was mostly a joke!)
As for commenting of stuff I have no idea about; well thatÆs your opinion babycakes, itÆs a free country.
As for crushing the NVA and handing the territory back to Taggart.
Aw shucks! Now youÆll have given them a new strategic direction.
Love and peace mÆdear (and death to Ayn Rand!)
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:24:00 -
[11]
Oh Stavros ... say it ain't so?
Did you just edit out the "crushing the NVA and handing back Venal to Taggart comment" ?
Thats not playing fair m'dear! (Are you sure you're not Ragnar's alt) ?
JF Public Forum |
Iece Quaan
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:27:00 -
[12]
/shrug
Jade never answered my emails about getting involved in the VA war.
And I don't fly a battleship. =P
--------
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 16/09/2003 13:49:48
I so did answer your eve-mails m'dear, and I invited you to take part (by direct communications as I recall).
But just so we are clear; NVA is encouraging like-minded volunteers to take arms against the enemy and join the fight against Taggart Transpiratical. I don't care if you have a battleship or not, whether its a cruiser or a frigate or whatever. NVA territory is "free-space" and should you wish to pledge your stength against our foes you will win our friendship and a good measure of respect therein.
JF Public Forum |
Miso
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:37:00 -
[14]
Jade - have CCP employed you yet?
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Stavros
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:37:00 -
[15]
i knew you'd go for that one, dunno why...
anyway yeah well if you leave the pvp stuff to experts then you should leave the 'posting rubbish' on the forums about pvp to experts as well :P
Hmm that sounded much better in my head
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Luna
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:41:00 -
[16]
Great post Jade.....
Hey Starvos a regional alliance can be a ton of fun... It actually adds content to the game. The fight comes to you in a regional alliance and the people in your corp that don't like to pvp get to harvest some decent roids.
You have your own regional alliances all the time, you just happen to choose tiny regions (ie gates). I can respect gate campers because I think its very close to real life in a role playing sense. What I don't like are the A**holes that like to take advantage the weak game dynamics of jump in points in this game and attack people when the game has made them vulnerable... Or people that cause excessive lag just to help their apparently weak combat skills. Using the games weaknesses is lame but that is life I guess. It's not even really about whats fair but rather of being a decent person. Hopefully EVE addresses the issue..
Anyway good post Jade; I bet you have an interesting corp.... btw which alliance are you part of?
Luna
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:44:00 -
[17]
[Stavybabes wrote]
 Quote:
I knew you'd go for that one, dunno why...
lol, it was a sitting target m'dear. I might be a crappy pvp'er but I can hit cargo cans!
Quote:
anyway yeah well if you leave the pvp stuff to experts then you should leave the 'posting rubbish' on the forums about pvp to experts as well :P
Oh I do. TTi have got that angle completely covered ;)
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 13:48:00 -
[18]
Luna m'dear, Jericho is a member corp of the New Venal Alliance (NVA) ... you can read all about us here
Have fun!
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Elfman
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Elfman on 16/09/2003 14:04:46
For peeps bored with eve.
How about this.
Rather than trying to reach the end game why not sit back and enjoy the journey
Yep I dont have a battleship yet - yes I could have got 1 but why...
Would rather have fun annoying sinister/moo and loosing a few cruisers along the way.
PS Stav - watching your alt die and the fun and games after that finally let me get through the blockade after 15 odd attemps was fun can you do it again 
|
Miso
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:05:00 -
[20]
There is a clear distinct schism in Eve between two banks of player types:
Firstly there are those that like acquiring things, making lots of money, have the best of everything and like shooting things randomly a la Doom. They view eve as a space game that you can shoot things in and make money. And it ends there. And thats fine.
The second group wants more from Eve - it was RP, storylines, player and GM lead events and content - metagaming.
The problems occur at friction points between the too sets of players. But this need not be a problem, as Jade points out. There can be some kind of reciprocal arrangement made in-game.
What gets tedious is all the mindless *****ing from both camps. There is room for both types of gaming and both types of players. A blend of both would make a great game even better. And I think that is what Jade is saying (I may be wrong).
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Sarkos
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:07:00 -
[21]
Jade, I agree with you 100%.
EVE has always been said to be for the more advanced gamer. This is because a great portion of the game content is PC generated. Look around and you will see powerblocks forming and disolving. Wars are being fought and tide of power is in constant flux in EVE.
You don't have to be a roleplayer to get involved, though I find it much more enjoyable to do so. Choose a personal goal, whether attainable or not. Then work in game towards that goal. Talk to others, form alliances and even contact others that may oppose your goals so as to create a war. Fighting NPC pirates is not exciting. Facing down a fleet of PC run ships is.
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
|
Carp Riddell
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:13:00 -
[22]
Jade,
The problem is there's basically nothing out there for the very small corp or freelancer. Please don't just dismiss us like that, because there are quite a lot of us who've reached the stage where all that's left to do is join a large corp or pack it in.
Sustained PvP costs a lot of money, and you can't do it unless you've either got a huge pot of cash to burn ("I'll play for a few weeks then quit") or you've got people making the money for you ("I am in a big corp"). Piracy works perfectly well as long as you have a firepower advantage over your opponents ("I am a big corp, and we have some long-serving players"). If you don't fit the above categories, it's suicide.
If you want my full reasons, please contact me in game.
Carp
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
|
Homo Erectus
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:17:00 -
[23]
stav I hate to tell you this, but Evol didn't adapt anything from you besides killing you by lagging spawn points. and that's just vs you.
the raider style killing done in Venal was not new. if anything, you got crap from us, that we used before you started playing. |
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:18:00 -
[24]
According to some, it's very much possible to kill big things in frigates.
I myself intend to try that this week or the next
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
PsyBlade
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:19:00 -
[25]
Jade:
You make a few good points, and I see now why you are a good Propaganda person (sorry proper word eludes me atm). Yet what you say is that we all should join into the whole of the eve community, true I agree with that.
But there is one flaw in your words. altough some of us want to join up there and are willing to try and make a chance keep in mind that there are certain things we as players cannot control. We cannot control the way other people think/react/play. Some of us like to RP the game and gain more knowledge about the eve universe, while others only want to get an Uber char. (nothing wrong there).
Yet there is also one thing you need to keep in mind, it's called CONCORD and the fact you can only go to war with 3 other corps. It would be a bad thing to go play tag in Empire space and then get blown apart by CONCORD just because your overall alliance is at war.
As for your remark about the fleet operations and blocking a system? they will never be save... you cannot block every jump gate into your system, it will be a game of hide and seek for the ones controlling a system (this might chance when the Player owned sentries come in play).
Jade, the reason why the Mongols never came to be a power nation was because Djenghis Khan died to early :) so ponder on that... it's not the army that conquers, but it's the leader that is able to keep the army together to conquer
Stavros:
I think that the PvP experience depends on the person and what they want to achieve. If you enjoy the killing of people then you will be dedicating more time to the setup of your ship instead of doing otherwise. (I admit that I am not a PvP'er now but that in the future I hope to trade blows with m0o). When you are willing to go for the killing and then wait for the whining of people, go for it! I think that everyone has different goals in the game and that that is something that makes this game fun
---
"Security against defeat implies defensive tactics;
ability to defeat the enemy means taking the offensive."
- Sun Tzu |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:21:00 -
[26]
of course you did homo...
monkey see monkey do..
well actually its more a case of..
monkey see, monkey ***** about on forums for 2 weeks, then monkey do.
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:22:00 -
[27]
Quote:
i knew you'd go for that one, dunno why...
anyway yeah well if you leave the pvp stuff to experts then you should leave the 'posting rubbish' on the forums about pvp to experts as well :P
Hmm that sounded much better in my head
Hmmm, wasn't sure that Jade's post was about PvP at all. I'm not even completely sure it has anything to do with RP.
Indeed, if m0o/Sinister and their allies came to Venal I don't have a shadow of a doubt we'd get our arses royally kicked for all the reasons you've given - there isn't a single one I could disagree with. Having said that PvPers for the most part don't spring fully formed into a game, maybe you did, most don't. Looking at Venal and the way it's developing I can see the alliance's skills are improving - this weekend we fielded a 30 ship fleet and ended with M3G4 leaving yesterday. Chicken feed to you of course and I doubt we'll ever come close to matching the skills of people who put everything into PvP, but still an improvement on what was being achieved when VA/TTi were under pressure from Evo and Xana.
The point you seem to be missing and what I think Jade is trying to make is that for people who aim solely at the biggest ship the game is always close to finishing, for people who aim for building something up, alliances, politics, etc - the game is always just starting and fresh every day. You really had to experience the Ragnar Declaration that time at the VA meeting, the whole thing was electric - not from roleplaying or anything, just from the monumental stupidity of it. It was the only time I suspected that Ragnar may have been employed by CCP, as it was so like some sort of looney hollywood bad guy behaviour it's hard to believe he said it without prompting. 
As to economics, well I wouldn't assume that we're as bad at that as we are with killing people.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:25:00 -
[28]
Quote:
The problem is there's basically nothing out there for the very small corp or freelancer. Please don't just dismiss us like that, because there are quite a lot of us who've reached the stage where all that's left to do is join a large corp or pack it in.
You don't have to join an alliance or a large corp to interact with them. If the alliance or corp ignores you because your small, then more fool them. In fact I would say that you can have a lot more fun with a flexible small corp than you can with a lot of larger ones.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:25:00 -
[29]
I would, most in this game are.
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:29:00 -
[30]
Carp, I hear you, I honestly do. And thatÆs why the NVA adopted open borders policy and has openly invited volunteers to pledge cause and take up arms in this war against Taggart Transpiratical. I have never dismissed small corps. I encourage small corps to involve themselves in the wider political picture. If you guys are still building up then fine. My post was mainly directed at those who have already built-up, and are now bored with the lack of any future progression,
But saying that; just take a took at the NVA/War in Venal stuff mÆdear. People are fighting in cruisers, they are fighting in frigates. There really are all levels of potential participation. If you guys manage to outfit a wing of kestrels and blow some TTi miners for the war effort then you are really helping out, in a real, solid way.
If you are serious about wanting involvement then hell, IÆll bankroll you to the tune of a few million so you can get a frigate wing equipped. IÆve done it before and will do it again.
People get the wrong idea of PvP from the posts on these forums. ItÆs not all about huge uber battleships blasting huge uber battleships.
In an ongoing war every kill counts.
Take a couple of kestrels with some jammers and webs and ambush TTi indies mÆdear! ItÆs cheap as chips and a great way to score economic disruption. Declare war on the enemy and you are laughing! You can do it anywhere.
Seriously, have a read about the issues and the sides of this war and if you want in I will make it happen for you.
Lack of huge stacks of isk is not an issue.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Miso
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:32:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Jade,
The problem is there's basically nothing out there for the very small corp or freelancer. Please don't just dismiss us like that, because there are quite a lot of us who've reached the stage where all that's left to do is join a large corp or pack it in.
Sustained PvP costs a lot of money, and you can't do it unless you've either got a huge pot of cash to burn ("I'll play for a few weeks then quit") or you've got people making the money for you ("I am in a big corp"). Piracy works perfectly well as long as you have a firepower advantage over your opponents ("I am a big corp, and we have some long-serving players"). If you don't fit the above categories, it's suicide.
If you want my full reasons, please contact me in game.
Carp
None of that is true. I am in a small corp and I have plenty to do, and we wage war pretty much fulltime. Sustained PvP does not cost much money, especially if you're clever. Convo me if your bored
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:37:00 -
[32]
Quote:
I would, most in this game are.
100M a day solid for 2 weeks without touching a mining laser, a factory or a trade region-buy exploit once and without sticking in empire space? There are probably people with higher incomes, but I don't consider myself to be economically pathetic :-)
One gets a bit tired of ISK after your 3rd battleship fitted with all the best kit, so my wallet is pretty meagre at the moment.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:38:00 -
[33]
Quote:
100M a day solid for 2 weeks without touching a mining laser, a factory or a trade region-buy exploit once and without sticking in empire space? There are probably people with higher incomes, but I don't consider myself to be economically pathetic :-)
One gets a bit tired of ISK after your 3rd battleship fitted with all the best kit, so my wallet is pretty meagre at the moment.
Gimme info O.o
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Daesdemona
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:40:00 -
[34]
Can I have your stuff?
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
----------------------------------------------- |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:43:00 -
[35]
You're letting the side down now athule. TTi executives think we are all poverty-stricken socialists without a clue how to make a decent wage!
JF Public Forum |
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:44:00 -
[36]
Quote:
You're letting the side down now athule. TTi executives think we are all poverty-stricken socialists without a clue how to make a decent wage!
Very true, maybe I should have revealed how much Yvonne Pyros was capable of earning :-)
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Carp Riddell
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 14:59:00 -
[37]
Argh! Too busy working to write a decent response! Will evemail you later Jade. Thanks for talking sense. So few do...
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
|
Indigo Seqi
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 15:06:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Indigo Seqi on 16/09/2003 15:08:49
Jericho is that poor? That totally sucks man, I completely understand now why Jericho would have to pay 50m and taggart 500m for that war fund thingy.
After all, the strongest arms should carry the heaviest load (quote) and you sound pretty underfed to me.
Oh and don't ever flame Roark for posting 1 billion isk contracts to boast about his wealth anymore please, it makes your corp look rather silly now.
|
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 15:26:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Jericho is that poor? That totally sucks man, I completely understand now why Jericho would have to pay 50m and taggart 500m for that war fund thingy.
After all, the strongest arms should carry the heaviest load (quote) and you sound pretty underfed to me.
Oh and don't ever flame Roark for posting 1 billion isk contracts to boast about his wealth anymore please, it makes your corp look rather silly now.
If you check back through the logs, you'll find that the 50M was a personal offer from Jade - there are many of the JF who would have contributed similar amounts.
As to current wealth, as I said my current wallet is much emptier and I feel no huge desire to refill it at the moment. A rather pathetic 8M currently in fact. Our corp wallet has never been very big, it's about 20M right now and I think that's the biggest it's ever been. What we do instead is pretty much as SI has done, everyone chips in to help everyone else and we build ships for each other at BYOM (not some silly internal market like TTi claims to do).
Final comment on the 500M issue - it was never demanded of TTi, it was raised as an example that if Jade could afford to donate 50M then judging by numbers TTi should be able to field 500M when in fact they refused to use a single ISK to help other corporations. The other night I had 6M and a member of KIA asked for 3M to insure his battleship so that he could fight against M3G4. I did it without a moments hesitation, and if it helped towards our ultimate victory then it was money well spent even though it was half of my available funds. Did TTi ever do the same, despite the fact that a member of theirs says that anything less than 2B is peanuts? We're not socialists or communists, we just value victory at more than 400 units of megacyte.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 16:26:00 -
[40]
Oh dear oh dear mr Seqi, you Taggart Transpiratical banjo-bandwagon boys have never really understood what this war is about now have you?
First; we have the shock wave of sycophants kicking off on Jericho as an irrelevant 3 member corporation unworthy of notice. Then we have accusations against our commitment and war effort, now, we have the likes of an erstwhile Taggart ally accusing us of Roark-esq fiscal boastings.
Want to know the difference between Jericho and Taggart mr Seqi?
We keep our promises. They donÆt. Go to war with Jericho at your side and count on our support and friendship. Go to war with Taggart colours in the alliance and you are sure of a stab in the back.
The thing about the old VA was that even though Taggart were constantly leveraging their huge nominal membership as a veto and lock on policy decisions they never actually committed a bean. We on the other hand bankrolled our allies with grants and loans and tried as hard as we could to keep things moving. You Space Invaders were mostly off pirating à hell, the war never touched you. This is why you honestly donÆt understand the issues. ItÆs not about how much money you have, itÆs about whether you are reliable friends and firm and solid allies. Roark flaunted his wealth while paying not a solitary isk to the war fund; he was laughing at the sacrifice his allies were making.
AthuleÆs already addressed the issues of pledge levels and stuff like that, but just to make it plain. I pledged that sum to encourage TTi to put up or shut up. It was annoying me that TTi wanted a veto on policy decisions based on their apparent membership roll. I wanted them to admit that their numbers were false. Therefore I proposed a proportional levy. If TTi had offered to match me I would have considered both corporations worthy of a single vote in council. If TTi had matched the apparent proportions of member disparity (500million isk) I would have been happy to have them wield ten votes to our one. I never for one moment thought they would do it, I did think they would match my 50million. It was a political play to puncture the illusionary balloon of TTi size to limit their claim to council domination. But of course, it might also have saved the war-effort and changed the course of history. And thatÆs something else I donÆt think you understand mr Seqi,
ItÆs called finesse.
JF Public Forum |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 16:29:00 -
[41]
Uhhhhh.
There's plenty of fights going on outside of Venal, Jade.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 16:31:00 -
[42]
Feel free Joshua m'dear, its thread about getting people involved, make a pitch!
Love and peace.
JF Public Forum |
Indigo Seqi
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 16:38:00 -
[43]
Athule: If it was Jade's personal offer, I stand corrected and the first lines of my post are voided.
Jade: Most of your post is totally offtopic and I won't even bother to comment on it.
Making semi-funny remarks about your wealth or potential wealth like that is something I could care less about. However, I don't find it fitting if you do it yourself after you've frowned upon somebody else for that same thing before. Be it a TTI member or not.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 16:53:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 16/09/2003 16:53:52
I'll admit mr Seqi, I think athule was wrong to bring it up. But he was goaded by Stavros' suggestion that we were as rubbish economically as we are with PvP. You are entirely right, it has no purpose being discussed in this thread.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 17:01:00 -
[45]
Yep agreed - I was provoked your honour! :-)
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Shintoko Akahoshi
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 17:47:00 -
[46]
Quote:
The problem is there's basically nothing out there for the very small corp or freelancer. Please don't just dismiss us like that, because there are quite a lot of us who've reached the stage where all that's left to do is join a large corp or pack it in.
Sustained PvP costs a lot of money, and you can't do it unless you've either got a huge pot of cash to burn ("I'll play for a few weeks then quit") or you've got people making the money for you ("I am in a big corp"). Piracy works perfectly well as long as you have a firepower advantage over your opponents ("I am a big corp, and we have some long-serving players"). If you don't fit the above categories, it's suicide.
I don't think that's true. Granted, large corps can give you the economic ability to field ships that you might not otherwise be able to, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing out there for freelancers.
You mention piracy and PvP specifically. Combat does tend to burn through resources, but the trick is you can determine how fast those resouces get depleted. If you can't afford to replace a battleship, do it in a cruiser. If you can't afford to replace a cruiser, switch to frigates. You'll have to be more careful choosing your targets, but you'll still be fighting. What's more, you might find the extra challenge makes it more fun.
Jade makes some wonderful points about nontraditional (non-mining, non-combat) things you can do in the game: Writing propaganda; Spying; Logistics and such. These are all things that can be done at a minimal cost. I have an alt character, for instance, who does this sort of thing (I won't name any names). I have trained a grand total of one skill for this character, which wasn't strictly necessary. This character acts entirely in (as Jade would put it) a meta-game mode, as an informational mercenary. She is paid to spy, spread propaganda, and be the middleperson in some shady deals. She doesn't make a huge amount of isk doing this, but her expenses are almost nil (looking at her wallet, she has spent about 10,000 isk in the last month). I have as much fun playing this character as I do my primary one.
All you've got to do is use your imagination, and you'll come up with myriad possibilities.
Love,
Shintoko
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Sidus
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 18:49:00 -
[47]
1 0wnZ 477 y0rZ b4$3
My ub3r 733t Ap0c r0x0rz
It's not the size of your ship that matters... It's how many peeps you have to reign firey death down upon thine enemies from on high...
________________________________________________
"Alle warten auf das Licht - f³rchtet euch f³rchtet euch nicht - die Sonne scheint mir aus den Augen - sie wird heut Nacht nicht untergehen - und die Welt zõhlt laut bis zehn"
|
Sidus
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 18:50:00 -
[48]
Sorry, my inner forum troll got out.
________________________________________________
"Alle warten auf das Licht - f³rchtet euch f³rchtet euch nicht - die Sonne scheint mir aus den Augen - sie wird heut Nacht nicht untergehen - und die Welt zõhlt laut bis zehn"
|
Singular
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 18:54:00 -
[49]
Problem is 95% of people sit on top of a scordite rock in empire space. There is a missing link here, in terms of the mentality of going from that Scordite rock to fighting in geo-political landscapes.
Baby Steps.
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 19:33:00 -
[50]
I must be missing something.
I think there are more battles going on in Eve than ever before and those are just the ones revealed on the forums.
Frigates are undergoing something of a renaissance and that shows that battleships, while super powerful, aren't the be all and end all.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Zorakk
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 19:44:00 -
[51]
Quote:
According to some, it's very much possible to kill big things in frigates.
I myself intend to try that this week or the next
It is. But it takes practice, a team and coordination. Complimentary load-outs, etc. Frigs can easily take a Cruiser. The right mix can be hell on a BS. Plus it spreads out your losses if one member goes down. Losing 1 of 10 is not nearly as debilitating as losing 1 of 3. Keep in mind you only have avg of 12 to 14 sec before Concord shows up in 1.0 though.
Stav - We are coming for you. Your time is short.
Tell Tekforce he is next.
Zorakk
|
Nirvy
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 22:10:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Nirvy on 16/09/2003 22:16:32
Mercenary | The Azath |
Deadmetal
|
Posted - 2003.09.16 23:47:00 -
[53]
I'm all for taking my BS to wreak havoc on evildoers... my only caveat it their bloody COST.. ye gods.. if you're an average player and don't have a "miningHo" account or somesuch.. even with insurance losing your pretty is catastrophic.. taking you (again the average player.. not the UberPlayer) a long time to get it back.
Hence altho I'd dearly love to open up with 4Tachyeon beams and Cruise missiles at the hapless victum I'm still worried about losing my hard won investment. If CCP can make it less of a hurt to lose your shiny toy then PvP will rock.. but rite now, many still avoid it.. and whine about content.. *LOL*.. but a great point Jade.. well spoken 
"Human Nature - If someone put a big red button in a remote mountain cave with a sign on it 'End of the world button!! Do not push!!.. the paint wouldn't have a chance to dry." |
Shintoko Akahoshi
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 06:59:00 -
[54]
Quote:
I'm all for taking my BS to wreak havoc on evildoers... my only caveat it their bloody COST.. ye gods.. if you're an average player and don't have a "miningHo" account or somesuch.. even with insurance losing your pretty is catastrophic.. taking you (again the average player.. not the UberPlayer) a long time to get it back.
Not to be nasty about it, but if you can't easily replace your ship, perhaps you should be flying a cheaper ship. I'm well aware that, in many cases, it takes a costlier ship to make more isk. I'm also aware that many people don't want to fight in their ships and thus feel they can afford a bigger ship than if they were fighters. I'm not talking to those people. I'm talking to people who want to fight, but feel that it would require too much time to replace their ship if they lose it.
Seriously, if you can't afford to replace your ship, you shouldn't be fighting in it.
I'll repeat that. If you can't afford to replace your ship, you shouldn't be fighting in it.
I don't mean give up on fighting. But if you can't afford to replace your ship, fight in a cheaper ship.
Someone once posted (I forget who) that real power is having the resources to replace your ship five times. If you've got that set aside (and this doesn't have to be much. I can outfit a fair combat frigate for ~ 50,000 isk), you don't have to worry about combat. You can jump into fights with impunity, not because you are invincible but because you can afford to lose. Even if you (the player) are inexperienced at combat, you can jump in. I guarantee nothing will teach you about PvP combat like losing a ship or two.
---------------------------------
Quote:
Problem is 95% of people sit on top of a scordite rock in empire space. There is a missing link here, in terms of the mentality of going from that Scordite rock to fighting in geo-political landscapes.
I don't see this as a problem. We're all (supposed to be) adults here, so presumably we all have at least a modicum of intelligence and imagination. If that Scordite rock-sitter is dissatisfied, they can look around and see other possibilities. It doesn't have to be all at once. Like you say, baby steps.
When I first started playing Eve, I sat on top of a Veldspar rock for a couple of days. That convinced me that I hated it. I'd gotten the usual eve-mail from my NPC agent, so I gave agent missions a try. That was more fun, so I did that for a while. After a few days that got boring, too, so I started listening on the various chat channels. I listened to the recruiting channel for a few days, talking to various recruiters and getting an idea about what various corps did. I ended up picking one of the corps whose CEO said he wanted to get into smuggling and black marketeering. Within a few days I was in Crielere during the ring-building event, participating in all sorts of things that were much more interesting than agent missions or sitting on that Veldspar rock. I ended up getting blown up a few times, but I was having a blast. It didn't take long to get there, either. A week and a half from sitting on that first Veldspar rock to my first PvP experience (which didn't go well. That's another story, though...). If I can make this mental jump, anyone can.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Miso
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 08:16:00 -
[55]
Shintoko: I think you've hit the nail on the head.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 09:28:00 -
[56]
I am a Scordite sitter supreme as my skills testify...
Level 5 Mining
Level 4 Astrogeology
Level 5 Drones
Level 4 Drone Interfacing
Level 4 Mining Drones
Level 5 Refine
Level 4 Refine Efficiency
I also have a battleship equipped with 7 mining lasers and 9 harvester drones and mine in 0.9 space. I have never been podded and the only ship I have ever lost was a Punisher mining in 0.0 space in the first week (despite various Oracle attempts since then) - so I guess that means that I am the bigest loser in EVE.
To some sitting in front of rocks all day is their idea of torture..but to me it is simply a way to fund other habits...
I know that several times a week my loyal Amarr Corp will go hunting the the Minmatar terrorists that are Oracle and I join them on these missions (despite the risk )
I am a crap PvP'er... my guns deal out less damage than the average Blood Follower and to be honest my most useful role is as a target - soaking up some fire and allowing my corp m8s to get into action.
Yet these battles provide enough adrenalin to keep me going for a week... When Oracle nearly took out my Arm last week I couldn't stop grinning for an hour.
I am also currently experimenting with combat setups for my battleship that no one sane would try and that amuses me too...
Combined with an interest the larger EVE political situation and some of the laughs I get off these board EVE has more than enough to keep me interested for a long time.
I know my way of doing things may be 'sad' but tbh I don't care. I am having fun...and I am not harming anyone else!
To anyone moaning about lack of content go pick a fight with someone larger than you!
|
Miso
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 10:27:00 -
[57]
Hardin - you forgot a skill:
Disco Balls - level 5
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 10:42:00 -
[58]
Ah yes - how could I forget the most important one 
Miso - you will be pleased to know that after a champagne celebration last night my Armageddon is now renamed 'Disco Balls'
At least now your sig means something when you say you have seen my Disco Balls and lived
|
lunaloner
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 10:42:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Luna m'dear, Jericho is a member corp of the New Venal Alliance (NVA) ... you can read all about us here
Have fun!
Love and peace
jade my dear, you gave me a shock then, i didnt think we were friends but your acquaintance could be beneficial to all.
i would like to stretch the wings of the church and spread the word of cowps throughout the universe, if you think venal needs some spiritual love and happiness dont be afraid to ask and an outreach can easily be set up in venal.
may the light of cowps shine upon you. and give the victorys you rightly deserve.
the church of colin cowperthwaite marching through eve and up the unibond premier division.
oh shhhhhhiiiii, i got klingons on my starboard bow. the mrs will kill me. |
Miso
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 10:59:00 -
[60]
Thats quality, Hardin lol
I look forward to engaging your Disco Balls soon...
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Demangel
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 12:48:00 -
[61]
I must say, I have read pretty much every post on this thread, and enjoyed it thoroughly.
I myself agree with most of the people here. I don't care if your good at it or godly, or the master of teh suxxor, EVE for me cannot be just about rock staring contests.
I still suggest however that for many people EVE needs content... But when I say that I don't mean: Amarr emperor dies... or gets sick, or corps pull out of such and such region...
Thats the hook, the first chapter and the event that sets things in motion... But otherwise it is largely beyond me... I don't feel compelled to do a damn thing, either as a freelancer, or in a big corp, because nothing I do will really matter in the struggle.
Lets use a classic and cliche example to illustrate my points exactly.
I could go out tomorrow and "free" a bestower full of slaves from a players cargo hold... But what would I do with the slaves once I loot them?
Give em to oracle and pretend I did something? shouldn't at the very least my faction with the minnimatar go up and mean I can stay in Minnimatar space with less police troubles?
Shouldn't I be able to fly them to minnimatar space and set them free at any minnimatar station for some extra faction or maybe money too?
This is the geopolitical aspects of EVE I'm interested in... this is the kind of stuff that drew many of us to EVE. Our effect on the environment and ourselves... Besides frigging Loot drops from PC enemies!
Now lets say for example, that Jericho was allied with oracle, and sympathised with the minnimatar plight (again using the easy example of the slave issue). But taggart in fact makes loads of money on the slave trade as a side business...
Now lets saay that you could "free slaves" from someones cargo hold and get faction and such... and possibly even effect the entire game world if you did something monumental enough in that respect to get noticed by GM's.
In that event I would be joining Jericho or begging oracle to allow an outsider of thier people the honor of fighting at thier side... Why? because it would accomplish something beyond Free loot, and some added excitement.
I can get more of that now with limited pirating, or occasional PC convoy protection jobs, and less risk... than I could by joining some silly war of out of game RP consequences...
Unless Meaningful repurcussions and rewards and victories are claimable in EVE, I suspect that the true geopolitical aspect of EVE will never be very hot, but will infact be made up mostly of cold wars or semi hot wars, with pirates being the only real form of excitement for most players who don't go looking for trouble...
Anyone see my point?
If not so be it... In closing I'd just like to say Jade has done a wonderful job causing some player made content on this thread, and if CCP would follow her lead, and give us things to actually fight over, EVE would be off and running... finished, and bug free or otherwise...
In the mean time, fight your wars, even pay me to fight them on your side as a warrior or a miner or whatever suits our agreed upon fancy, but don't ask me to care about it... for there is no point yet for me to do so. So I agree more people should be trying PVP, but I also agree most people will realise it's largely pointless and gets boring after a while without some meaning besides loot aquisition.
Lets hope CCP adds this kind of content sooner rather than later...
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
|
Shintoko Akahoshi
|
Posted - 2003.09.17 16:44:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Shintoko Akahoshi on 17/09/2003 16:47:10
Hardin wrote:
Quote:
I am a Scordite sitter supreme as my skills testify...
Quote:
I also have a battleship equipped with 7 mining lasers and 9 harvester drones and mine in 0.9 space. I have never been podded and the only ship I have ever lost was a Punisher mining in 0.0 space in the first week (despite various Oracle attempts since then) - so I guess that means that I am the bigest loser in EVE.
God, I hope you don't think I was referring to you. I was mostly addressing the sort of people who complain that they are bored with mining but there is nothing else to do, and the people who complain that they'd like to fight but they don't want to spend weeks mining if they lose their battleship.
You, on the other hand, already know the sorts of things that can be done with the game. If nothing else, you roleplay a great deal in the in-game forums (which I consider to be as much playing the game as anything else). In other words, keep on sittin' that Scordite rock...
And Demangel, I agree. I've never given much thought to the whole "faction standing" thing, but it would be good if in-game activities between PCs would affect it. Perhaps a corp could apply to Polaris/CCP for the ability to modify faction standing. For instance, Oracle could apply to be able to modify Minmatar faction standing. Then if you "free" a bestower full of slaves and turn them over to Oracle, they could bump up your Minmatar standing. Likewise, of course, PIE could apply to modify Amarr standing so they could lower yours...
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Vita Grando'II
|
Posted - 2003.11.24 11:11:00 -
[63]
Damn you guys have way too much time to post lengths like this.
If I had that amount of time I would probably blast a few more sinners to hell
Or are you all inspired buy the ex minister of information of the Iraque forces
--
|
Sparta
|
Posted - 2003.11.24 13:11:00 -
[64]
Now that was a well thought out post Jade. Thank you.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |