TL:DR nestor with covert ops cloak has too much tank and dps. Either limit its tank or dps substantionally to allow covert ops cloak.

Black Ops battleships potentially having a Covert Ops cloak down the road

You don't fly Black Ops, clearly. No.

I did preface that with "potentially".

sooo .... jump to a covert cyno and then virtually immediately engage a covert cloak and bugger off anywhere in system without detection.

just a wee bit OP maybe ??? bluebears in particular will not be amused



As for the Nestor ... giving it a covert ops cloak means you are creating a covert T1 BS that anyone with Cloak IV and 1 rank of Gallante BS and 1 rank of Ammar BS can fly and fit a covops cloak too. Assuming you actually are going to consider covops cloaked BS at all --- surely you want a wee bit more skill training than that before someone can fly one -- in fact you probably would want to create a new class of BS with its own skill requirements to limit access.

Most of the posts I have seen against the Nestor having a covops cloak come from known nullsecers.

I wonder what they are afraid of. Are they afraid of the Nestor? They should be happy if someone comes at them with such an expensive ship, the death of which, would boost their killoard stats!

(unless they are.... carebears)

sooo .... jump to a covert cyno and then virtually immediately engage a covert cloak and bugger off anywhere in system without detection.

just a wee bit OP maybe ??? bluebears in particular will not be amused



As for the Nestor ... giving it a covert ops cloak means you are creating a covert T1 BS that anyone with Cloak IV and 1 rank of Gallante BS and 1 rank of Ammar BS can fly and fit a covops cloak too. Assuming you actually are going to consider covops cloaked BS at all --- surely you want a wee bit more skill training than that before someone can fly one -- in fact you probably would want to create a new class of BS with its own skill requirements to limit access.

The nullsec guys are concerned that they wont be able to blap people in these things

So, I feel the need to ask why people believe the Nestor needs a Covert Ops cloak. Why exactly do you want it, and what do you gain by having one?

...

The truth is the covert ops cloak would add nothing to it's power in Null over a standard cloak that couldn't be added with a sebo.
Null seccers would find it no easier or no more difficuilt than currently.
A covert ops battleship is in fact the least powerful implementation of the technology as long as there is a targeting delay.

On a blops with skills lowering the post cloak targeting delay, a different story, I do see potential for additional power, however this is a discussion for when those are rebalanced. I certainly understand that being a fuzzy line that CCP are cautious of crossing, but the nestor is not a Blops.

However in wormhole space, it would be able to take it's part in a travelling fleet. It Would be able to travel with them, and be useful.
Not more power, just having a flaw that prevents its use at all fixed. Without it, in reality it is limited to it's home system, Or under perfect conditions the neighbouring one, no further. Would anyone buy a ship that was so restricted in it's use? Seems we are not. Price while relevant, is NOT the main reason we are not using it.

So in summation.
If covert ops is added, no increased true power in hisec, null and losec. Becomes useable in wormholes.

I think more than a Covert Ops cloak the Nestor needs a defined role. At this point I think the best suggestions are a refitting bay and a clone vat. Those would make it extremely valuable.

Oh, I definitely agree with that and I've said so before. The Nestor may have decent base stats (not outstanding by any means), but the roll bonuses are a terrible mismatch for a BS level ship.

My question is why some people have latched onto the idea that a covert ops cloak will fix the Nestor. What do they think the problems are with the Nestor, and what will adding a Covert Ops fix?

See the above post. Covops will allow the Nestor to be used as logi for a covert fleet in w-space, without making it any more powerful in k-space.

This ties in nicely with 2 storyline threads - sisters' humanitarian efforts and the ship's stated "wormhole focus"

Note: this thread is about persuading CCP Rise to consider a covops cloak. If you have a different idea for the Nestor, please feel welcome to propose it on another thread. I will certainly be happy to comment constructively.

at 500 mil it's still trash. try making it good instead of making it cheaper.

lol @ people who don't think covops cloaks are broken op.

Just because you can use a T2 cloak to escape gate camps does not mean the Covert ops does not add 'True' power in sec space.

In null space, for example, a Covert Ops cloak has a distinct advantage if you ran into a warp bubble or are trying to find a safe spot to log off. It's pretty common to hear a story about a Carrier or Dread that got scanned down during warp and then de-cloaked by a persistent group blindly bumping at the end point.

It may be fine to let a AF or HAC through a camp, but do you honestly think anyone at a gatecamp will let a Nestor get away with the warp changes? They wouldn't have a choice if it had a Covert Ops.

The module is restricted to certain ships for a reason.

Which brings me back to my original question... Why is it so important to have a covert ops over any other option? It seems like the main problem most people have is that the Nestor cannot participate in Covert roams through WH space. I'm not a WH resident, so I'm honestly asking what about the Covert Ops cloak is absolutely necessary?

The nullsec guys are concerned that they wont be able to blap people in these things

It's not creating bridges that's an unwanted side effect, it's being able to bridge battleships through a blops.





TBH, if it has to be changed, I think it should have the same bonuses regarding cloaking as the current black ops, and both the nestor and the blops ships be able to use prop mods (or at least afterburners) while cloaked. Would satisfy the apparent need to put the nestor in line with the others, and would give a needed buff to the blops without making them OP.

My line of thinking is that if people want to field that much damn isk in a fight, they can probably find a way to win one way or another.

I am pretty new to the game and haven't read all the posts here. But some I read said BS have to much DPS to have a covert ops cloak.


Don't T3 ships cloak and do a lot of DPS too?? It seems like that is what everyone is flying there days too. Maybe t3s are overpowered?

Why would it matter if the Nestor were out of line with Blops battleships? They themselves have a specific function - that of bridging in recons and bombers. I see no comparison.

There are many powerful ships that can currently enter a system and choose never to leave and maneuver while cloaked. I am keen to understand why the Nestor being a battleship hull is relevant to an argument against it being able to do the same.

In terms of power projection I don't see the Nestor as any more powerful and dangerous than a cloaked T3.

Is there something about battleships, with their slow lock times and lack of maneuverability that I am missing?

Cloaking itself is broken because of it's lack of counter and complete effectiveness. I personally believe all cloaks should be like the Cov-ops cloaks, and the ability to run prop mods or anything else you want while cloaked. That comes with the idea that you could actually hunt cloaked ships though, running other stuff would make the ship easier to find, and that cloaks themselves would be so cap intensive that the ship would have to be gimped with cap mods to be able to perma run it. All of that is beyond the scope of this thread.


The ability to use a cov-ops cloak on a Battleship to evade camps at gates would be much reduced compared to other ships with that ability, but the fact remains that if it did it would be forever concealed within that system until it was destroyed or it decided to leave, with no reason for it to ever drop cloak until the moment it attacked. This is still a stronger use than any other battleship can make of a cloak, and no evidence has been shown, or argument made that changes where the balance point of cloaking should be in regards to battleships. Unless you are willing to cut the ship in half and significantly reduce it's fittings, then it would be massively out of line in comparison to other cloaking battleships--as evidenced by the devs reluctance to change cloaking in any way for the past several years.

Tl;dr a battleship is the least powerful implementation of a covert ops cloak as long as it has a targeting activation delay after decloaking.

Agreed. Looks like we're relegated to a logistics platform, though. One has to wonder what's driving this behind the scenes, because it certainly isn't demand from your average player...