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Allow the Nestor to fit Covops Cloak as was originally intended

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Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 561	Posted - 2014.02.15 16:25:00 - [1] - Quote We all know it, the Nestor without a covops cloak is as useful as a chocolate teapot and as desirable as your mother in law after six glasses of sherry. The dev argument against it getting the covops cloak is that it will be "too powerful", but the dev team is unable to come up with reasoned arguments or empirical experimental results to support this view. This thread seeks to persuade the dev team, through gentle pressure from the player base, to deliver the Nestor as it should have been born. Give the Nestor convops cloak ability and the ability to warp cloaked. No more, no less. 30 seconds before reactivation of the cloak is reasonable. Please like if you agree. If you do not agree, please provide reasoned argument backed with experimental data. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Arthur Aihaken Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 2904	Posted - 2014.02.15 16:47:00 - [2] - Quote +1 Wholeheartedly agree. I'd also like to suggest making the Nestor a battlecruiser so there's no conflict with the existing Black Ops battleships potentially having a Covert Ops cloak down the road and dropping the price on the Nestor accordingly. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
TehCloud Mastercard. 200	Posted - 2014.02.15 17:08:00 - [3] - Quote We don't need more CovOps Capable ships in the game. The Stratios is already a Ship capable of insane DPS while warping cloaked. Give the Nestor a better Slot Layout, less meds, maybe even a high, more lows. My Condor costs less than that module!
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 562	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:19:00 - [4] - Quote TehCloud wrote: We don't need more CovOps Capable ships in the game. The Stratios is already a Ship capable of insane DPS while warping cloaked. Give the Nestor a better Slot Layout, less meds, maybe even a high, more lows. Thanks you for this contribution. As per the instructions in the original post, please define "insane dps"? I have not seen a stratios fit that can outperform a covops T3. I am wondering if I have missed something? You assert that we "do not need" another covops ship in the game, and I agree with you. Eve has survived for a long time without the Nestor, or indeed the stratios or astero. However, the addition of these two ships has certainly added a new dimension to my gameplay so I welcome them. My feeling is that the Nestor could add another fun dimension if its cost was closer to its value. I am also keen for the storyline to be followed (my little foible I know). My assertion is that the Nestor's actual battlefield power would not be increased in the slightest by making it covops-capable in the same way the stratios is (i.e. limited capability). However, it would allow a fleet containing Nestors to choose their engagements, which would increase its desirability. Note that covops fleets are just as capable of being outwitted as visible fleets - we see that in w-space all the time. I do not think that covops would usher in a new tier of power, I think it would simply make the Nestor something we can envisage using in the 'real' (TQ) universe. Of course if I am proven wrong, the change can be undone. It's not unheard of for ships to change roles in Eve. However, after long and reasoned thought (and experience of covert ops) my view is that this would be a positive change to the game. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mocam EVE University Ivy League 421	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:27:00 - [5] - Quote No battleships in the game are capable of fitting a covert ops cloak. It's been asked after for the T2 Black Ops craft for quite some time. As for your metric based upon W-space - that's quite a different environment than K-space with all that can and cannot be done differently in each location. "put it in and try it" - not a good idea. It would have to be "proven" to be too powerful and that means a lot of dead ships out there to prove it and a lot of pissed off people if/when it is proven that way as their new I WIN! ship loses that ability - after they've spent billions getting a batch of them setup for use. So if it's proven to be over-powered, you'll tick off all those who lost stuff in the interim and all those who lose their new OP toy. That's a no-win situation for CCP just to prove what they are saying.
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 562	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:41:00 - [6] - Quote Mocam wrote: No battleships in the game are capable of fitting a covert ops cloak. It's been asked after for the T2 Black Ops craft for quite some time. As for your metric based upon W-space - that's quite a different environment than K-space with all that can and cannot be done differently in each location. "put it in and try it" - not a good idea. It would have to be "proven" to be too powerful and that means a lot of dead ships out there to prove it and a lot of pissed off people if/when it is proven that way as their new I WIN! ship loses that ability - after they've spent billions getting a batch of them setup for use. So if it's proven to be over-powered, you'll tick off all those who lost stuff in the interim and all those who lose their new OP toy. That's a no-win situation for CCP just to prove what they are saying. Well, we have a test server. It would be a trivial thing to alter the database settings for the nestor on the test server and ask some players (or even devs) to try out some scenarios. So, to tackle your arguments one by one: 1. No battleships...covert cloak... The narrative of the sisters line of ships is that they figured out how to do it on T1 hulls. No other T1 hull has the covops ability - even at frigate level, so there is a precedent for it to be available at battleship level in this case. 2. metric based on w-space... Covert ops warfare can go wrong in k-space too. I agree that it's more difficult to de-cloak a covops on a gate than on a wormhole, but its by no means impossible. It happens every day. And remember that a Nestor has a much longer align time than a bomber or covert cruiser. Traversal of k-space would not be much safer than in any other battleship. 2a. I am not arguing for an ability to bridge covert cynos. Merely to warp cloaked and move at full (110m/s) speed when cloaked. 3. put it in and try it... I am not arguing for this blindly. I strongly believe it will work well for all. 4. If it's proven to be overpowered.... it will be iteratively nerfed, like motherships, titans, dreads, drakes and so on. The entire community has adapted to these changes and subscriber numbers have not reduced. 5. ...just to prove what they are saying... This can be proven on Sisi. No one has tried it yet. A large number of players disagree. Developers are bright people, but they are not demigods. It's entirely possible that they are mistaken. I will re-iterate a very important point: I have not seen one reasoned argument from a Dev (or from a player for that matter) why a covert-capable battleship is any more overpowered than a covert-capable cruiser. Please by all means put forward an argument, backed with factual analysis. Opinion simply isn't a strong enough argument to uncover the truth of the matter. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci Umbrarum Paradisi 270	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:51:00 - [7] - Quote I want this- +1 It would make the ship really a little more worth using, and would make it possible to move it around somewhat.. plus, it needs more cap if it's going to be using RR and lasers. "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven." -Jovian Proverb-á
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 1240	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:57:00 - [8] - Quote No. The Tears Must Flow
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci Umbrarum Paradisi 270	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:58:00 - [9] - Quote Yes. "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven." -Jovian Proverb-á
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 565	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:01:00 - [10] - Quote Vaju Enki wrote: No. Thank you for your contribution. Could you please explain, for the benefit of all, why you hold this view? It could be that you have some insight unavailable to me. Please remember to illustrate your position with reasoned argument, backed with empirical data. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Little Dragon Khamez Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition 1047	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:02:00 - [11] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: We all know it, the Nestor without a covops cloak is as useful as a chocolate teapot and as desirable as your mother in law after six glasses of sherry. The dev argument against it getting the covops cloak is that it will be "too powerful", but the dev team is unable to come up with reasoned arguments or empirical experimental results to support this view. This thread seeks to persuade the dev team, through gentle pressure from the player base, to deliver the Nestor as it should have been born. Give the Nestor convops cloak ability and the ability to warp cloaked. No more, no less. 30 seconds before reactivation of the cloak is reasonable. Please like if you agree. If you do not agree, please provide reasoned argument backed with experimental data. As a covert ops/ECM pilot I like the idea of having more options, so its a yes from me+1 Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Arthur Aihaken Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 2910	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:20:00 - [12] - Quote I'm tired of the "no battleship..." argument. Make it a battlecruiser already. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 4326	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:27:00 - [13] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: We all know it, the Nestor without a covops cloak is as useful as a chocolate teapot and as desirable as your mother in law after six glasses of sherry. The dev argument against it getting the covops cloak is that it will be "too powerful", but the dev team is unable to come up with reasoned arguments or empirical experimental results to support this view. This thread seeks to persuade the dev team, through gentle pressure from the player base, to deliver the Nestor as it should have been born. Give the Nestor convops cloak ability and the ability to warp cloaked. No more, no less. 30 seconds before reactivation of the cloak is reasonable. Please like if you agree. If you do not agree, please provide reasoned argument backed with experimental data. Most of the posts I have seen against the Nestor having a covops cloak come from known nullsecers. I wonder what they are afraid of. Are they afraid of the Nestor? They should be happy if someone comes at them with such an expensive ship, the death of which, would boost their killoard stats! (unless they are.... carebears) Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ines Tegator Towels R Us 389	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:37:00 - [14] - Quote This is the only thing that would justify it's current price. It may not be the only direction for the ship, but it's the most interesting one and the only one that won't invalidate the massive currency investment people have already made into them. I am not opposed to it, on the condition that the recloak delay and targeting delay remain at their full length (30 secs before skills, iirc). Decloaking a battleship-sized target before it escapes a bubble at battleship-slowboat speeds should be trivial for any competent gang- and even some incompetent ones. Ratters are already impossible to catch so any benefit this gives to carebears is minimal. This will not affect nullsec in a significant way. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there?
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 296	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:56:00 - [15] - Quote I disagree. I think the Nestor should be retooled to function as a support vessel for Black Ops Battleships and WH Exploration. I think it should have the same bonus to standard Cloaks that Black Ops Battleships receive. I think it should also be given a Fuel Bay and the ability to jump itself to Covert Ops Cyno's (but not Bridge.) I wholeheartedly believe that the Nestor should fill a role as a Black Ops Logistics ship. Why? Because no such role exists in the game, and it would greatly increase the ability of a Black Ops fleet to do more than just Gank targets then bridge home. I think removing the Laser Range Bonus, the Drone Damage Bonus, and the Exploration Bonuses both Virus and Probe Launcher (no one is going to explore in a BS) and replacing them with Cap Transfer, Logistic Drones Bonus. On top of this I feel that they should be given their ship maintenance bay back as well to allow for long term support, in NullSpace, or WH space, as was its intended function early in the process.
Veritaal Veri-Tech Tax Haven 43	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:18:00 - [16] - Quote I think the Nestor needs to be adjusted in general. Exploration bonuses on a BS hull? Who is going to be hacking cans in a BS? Who is going to bring a BS into hostile/neutral space to run sites? Who would even do it in space they "own"? Anyone who would have the ISK to buy, properly fit, and use a Nestor to run sites already has all the tools they need to run said sites without the need for an incredibly expensive faction BS hull floating around. Retool it as the only BS in the game that qualifies as a covert ops ship. Let it jump/bridge to covert cynos, and let it warp cloaked. Have it be the only means of bringing logistics in a Covert Ops fleet, as this role is currently only filled by people bringing along logi drones.
Daoden The Scope Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:30:00 - [17] - Quote No. One reason I say no is that a cov ops cloak allows use of cov op bridges, this would allow BLOPs fleets to now get more fire power and tank and would make BLOPs fleet be the new FOTM. Allowing players to hot drop any ship or structure with remote repping spider tanking drone using battleships. Think of slowcats that can breach cyno jamming. The added bonus that they use both drones and lasers (2 weapons systems that can almost never urn out of ammo) this would allow a fleet of nesters and a BLOPs with some support cruisers to run the whole game on their own. edit:typos
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 574	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:35:00 - [18] - Quote Daoden wrote: No. One reason I say no is that a cov ops cloak allows use of cov op bridges, this would allow BLOPs fleets to now get more fire power and tank and would make BLOPs fleet be the new FOTM. Allowing players to hot drop any ship or structure with remote repping spider tanking drone using battleships. Think of slowcats that can breach cyno jamming. The added bonus that they use both drones and lasers (2 weapons systems that can almost never urn out of ammo) this would allow a fleet of nesters and a BLOPs with some support cruisers to run the whole game on their own. edit:typos Neither the stratios or the astero allow the creation of black ops bridges. Nobody who is advocating the fitting of a covert ops cloak to a Nestor is advocating that it becomes a BLOPS bridging vessel. That is an entirely separate function. Now that I have allayed your concerns on that score, are you able to comment on the reasonableness of allowing it to warp cloaked ONLY. In the same way that the smaller sisters ships can? I fear that this discussion has too often been polluted by feat of BLOPS bridging, when no-one is arguing for it. It's not on the table. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 296	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:44:00 - [19] - Quote Daoden wrote: No. One reason I say no is that a cov ops cloak allows use of cov op bridges, this would allow BLOPs fleets to now get more fire power and tank and would make BLOPs fleet be the new FOTM. Allowing players to hot drop any ship or structure with remote repping spider tanking drone using battleships. Think of slowcats that can breach cyno jamming. The added bonus that they use both drones and lasers (2 weapons systems that can almost never urn out of ammo) this would allow a fleet of nesters and a BLOPs with some support cruisers to run the whole game on their own. edit:typos You do realize that everything you just said is already currently possible and that the Nestor wouldn't change anything really at all. There is literally nothing stopping anyone from putting RR on any of the current Black Ops Battleships and spider tanking. Or using T3's with RR fits. It is not really a new mechanic, it is just a role that doesn't have a dedicated ship for it...despite the fact that the role is filled by numerous other ships all the time. You can fit a Sin to do the exact same thing as a Nestor. Would a Nestor be better...of course, as it should be if it ever becomes a Black Ops RR ship (as it should.)
Fronkfurter McSheebleton The Graduates RAZOR Alliance 272	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:46:00 - [20] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Neither the stratios or the astero allow the creation of black ops bridges. Nobody who is advocating the fitting of a covert ops cloak to a Nestor is advocating that it becomes a BLOPS bridging vessel. That is an entirely separate function. Now that I have allayed your concerns on that score, are you able to comment on the reasonableness of allowing it to warp cloaked ONLY. In the same way that the smaller sisters ships can? I fear that this discussion has too often been polluted by feat of BLOPS bridging, when no-one is arguing for it. It's not on the table. It's not creating bridges that's an unwanted side effect, it's being able to bridge battleships through a blops. TBH, I think it should have the same bonuses regarding cloaking as the current black ops, and both the nestor and the blops ships be able to use prop mods (or at least afterburners) while cloaked. Would satisfy the apparent need to put the nestor in line with the others, and would give a needed buff to the blops without making them OP. thhief ghabmoef

Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 296	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:47:00 - [21] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Neither the stratios or the astero allow the creation of black ops bridges. Nobody who is advocating the fitting of a covert ops cloak to a Nestor is advocating that it becomes a BLOPS bridging vessel. That is an entirely separate function. Now that I have allayed your concerns on that score, are you able to comment on the reasonableness of allowing it to warp cloaked ONLY. In the same way that the smaller sisters ships can? I fear that this discussion has too often been polluted by feat of BLOPS bridging, when no-one is arguing for it. It's not on the table. It's not creating bridges that's an unwanted side effect, it's being able to bridge battleships through a blops. Can't do this anyway. Black Ops ships don't have enough Fuel to be able to Bridge Battleship Mass. I want to see the OP make a logical case for the Nestor actually having a Cov Ops cloak, Since he seems content shitting on everyone elses opinion. Id like to ask the OP why the Nestor SHOULD have the Cov Ops cloak. and no "I want" it isn't an argument. What role would it allow the Nestor to perform if it has a Covops cloak, and is this role already being done by an existing ship or ships?
Fronkfurter McSheebleton The Graduates RAZOR Alliance 272	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:49:00 - [22] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Neither the stratios or the astero allow the creation of black ops bridges. Nobody who is advocating the fitting of a covert ops cloak to a Nestor is advocating that it becomes a BLOPS bridging vessel. That is an entirely separate function. Now that I have allayed your concerns on that score, are you able to comment on the reasonableness of allowing it to warp cloaked ONLY. In the same way that the smaller sisters ships can? I fear that this discussion has too often been polluted by feat of BLOPS bridging, when no-one is arguing for it. It's not on the table. It's not creating bridges that's an unwanted side effect, it's being able to bridge battleships through a blops. Can't do this anyway. Black Ops ships don't have enough Fuel to be able to Bridge Battleship Mass. They don't? Well, fair point then...the more you know >_< thhief ghabmoef
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 296	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:53:00 - [23] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Neither the stratios or the astero allow the creation of black ops bridges. Nobody who is advocating the fitting of a covert ops cloak to a Nestor is advocating that it becomes a BLOPS bridging vessel. That is an entirely separate function. Now that I have allayed your concerns on that score, are you able to comment on the reasonableness of allowing it to warp cloaked ONLY. In the same way that the smaller sisters ships can? I fear that this discussion has too often been polluted by feat of BLOPS bridging, when no-one is arguing for it. It's not on the table. It's not creating bridges that's an unwanted side effect, it's being able to bridge battleships through a blops. Can't do this anyway. Black Ops ships don't have enough Fuel to be able to Bridge Battleship Mass. They don't? Well, fair point then...the more you know >_< Ya despite all the tears that come up about them, they actually aren't that strong or powerful. They can send SOME Frigate Sized ships, a FEW Cruiser size ships, and themselves. They are really limited in that regard to be honest. Not like a Titan for example that can bridge whole fleets, BLOPS ships can bridge like a Dozen or so each.
Veritaal Veri-Tech Tax Haven 43	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:53:00 - [24] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: This thread is not asking for the Nestor to be a bridging ship. This is not part of the proposal in the OP. This thread kindly requests that you either support the OP or explain why it is bad for Eve, using reasoned argument and empirical data. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I don't want the nestor to be a bridging ship, that role is filled. I was talking about the Nestor being able to be bridged by a black ops ship, just like every other cov-ops cloak capable ship. I think that giving the Nestor the ability warp and move cloaked would be wonderful. I don't see why it was decided that the Nestor would be denied this capability.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton The Graduates RAZOR Alliance 272	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:58:00 - [25] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Ya despite all the tears that come up about them, they actually aren't that strong or powerful. They can send SOME Frigate Sized ships, a FEW Cruiser size ships, and themselves. They are really limited in that regard to be honest. Not like a Titan for example that can bridge whole fleets, BLOPS ships can bridge like a Dozen or so each. More than a dozen, by far. The CFC has utilized full 250-man stealth bomber fleets on occasion, which get moved around by blops ships. thhief ghabmoef
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 574	Posted - 2014.02.16 01:02:00 - [26] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Neither the stratios or the astero allow the creation of black ops bridges. Nobody who is advocating the fitting of a covert ops cloak to a Nestor is advocating that it becomes a BLOPS bridging vessel. That is an entirely separate function. Now that I have allayed your concerns on that score, are you able to comment on the reasonableness of allowing it to warp cloaked ONLY. In the same way that the smaller sisters ships can? I fear that this discussion has too often been polluted by feat of BLOPS bridging, when no-one is arguing for it. It's not on the table. It's not creating bridges that's an unwanted side effect, it's being able to bridge battleships through a blops. Can't do this anyway. Black Ops ships don't have enough Fuel to be able to Bridge Battleship Mass. I want to see the OP make a logical case for the Nestor actually having a Cov Ops cloak, Since he seems content shitting on everyone elses opinion. Id like to ask the OP why the Nestor SHOULD have the Cov Ops cloak. and no "I want" it isn't an argument. What role would it allow the Nestor to perform if it has a Covops cloak, and is this role already being done by an existing ship or ships? Forgive me if it seems that I am being negative towards some arguments. This is not what I am doing, I am merely seeking to keep the thread on track. The history of this is that the dev team conceived the Nestor as a covert-capable ship in line with the other two sisters ships. They designed the hull with the ring for this reason and even wrote a ship description which referenced it (the one before the description that is currently on the Nestor, which was changed at the last minute). When pressed for an explanation, the dev team stated that with a covert cloak the Nestor would be overpowered and that it would compete with BLOPS in the same niche. I see no evidence for either position, so respectfully am looking to build support for them to be a little braver in their decision making, and return the Nestor to what it was clearly (to me) designed to be. To be clear, the idea of a covops RR battleship was not mine, it was the Dev Team's. I am simply asking that they go through with that design decision and make the Nestor a little more aspirational, since at the moment it's fairly clear that it's an undesirable ship with a very few niche (and in my view, contrived) roles. Consider a sister's of eve fleet. They bring asteros and stratios' and can move around cloaked, all well and good. Now they want to bring some logi and... their entire fleet is gimped because the sisters support ships stick out like a sore thumb on d-scan, giving the entire fleet away. It's illogical that an organisation would field such a ship. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 296	Posted - 2014.02.16 01:09:00 - [27] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Ya despite all the tears that come up about them, they actually aren't that strong or powerful. They can send SOME Frigate Sized ships, a FEW Cruiser size ships, and themselves. They are really limited in that regard to be honest. Not like a Titan for example that can bridge whole fleets, BLOPS ships can bridge like a Dozen or so each. More than a dozen, by far. The CFC has utilized full 250-man stealth bomber fleets on occasion, which get moved around by blops ships. Ya if you just use bombers you can send quite a bit. Recons take up a lot though. (Think you can do up to like 120 Bombers with all 5 skills...been a while) I was talking more in a "fleet" sense.
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 296	Posted - 2014.02.16 01:13:00 - [28] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Consider a sister's of eve fleet. They bring asteros and stratios' and can move around cloaked, all well and good. Now they want to bring some logi and... their entire fleet is gimped because the sisters support ships stick out like a sore thumb on d-scan, giving the entire fleet away. It's illogical that an organisation would field such a ship. But what is the role you want it to fill, and why would the Cov Ops cloak be required for the Nestor to meet that role. "Because the Dev Team had it like that" isn't a reason, no more than the "because it might be OP" was a reason to remove it. What role do you envision, and why does it need the Covops cloak. "Because the lore" doesn't cut it.
Arthur Aihaken Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 2911	Posted - 2014.02.16 01:16:00 - [29] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: What role would it allow the Nestor to perform if it has a Covops cloak, and is this role already being done by an existing ship or ships? "The Nestor has by far the smallest mass of the battleship class, giving it potential usage as a wormhole ship... The lesser mass also increases the effect of afterburners and microwarpdrives, meaning the ship is somewhat speedyGÇª As with the Stratios and the Astero, the Nestor features an exploration and hacking bonus, enabling it to be used as both a combat and an exploration platform." WormholeGÇª exploration. Except uninsurable @ $1.6-billion ISK+, who's going to use it there without a Covert Ops cloak. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 574	Posted - 2014.02.16 01:21:00 - [30] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Consider a sister's of eve fleet. They bring asteros and stratios' and can move around cloaked, all well and good. Now they want to bring some logi and... their entire fleet is gimped because the sisters support ships stick out like a sore thumb on d-scan, giving the entire fleet away. It's illogical that an organisation would field such a ship. But what is the role you want it to fill, and why would the Cov Ops cloak be required for the Nestor to meet that role. "Because the Dev Team had it like that" isn't a reason, no more than the "because it might be OP" was a reason to remove it. What role do you envision, and why does it need the Covops cloak. "Because the lore" doesn't cut it. Well, I think there is some merit in following through the dev team's original vision. Somone in there clearly had a role in mind and I think it would be interesting for that vision to at least make it to the test server. The lore is a reasonable starting point for a ship's capabilities. Each organisation has a doctrine or modus operandi and it would be illogical for them to commision ships that did not meet their needs. My view of the Nestor, as interpreted from dev-written lore is that the sisters are interested in deep space exploration, avoiding a fight when they can, but being combat capable if they must. The astero and stratios meet the recon and "combat if necessary" needs but there is no logistics vessel that they can field to support them. Hence the decision to commission the Nestor - a covert logistics ship with sufficient firepower to defend itself for long enough for support to arrive. This seems to me to be a sensible thing to commission. There have been other suggestions too: refitting bays and clone vats. These too would make sense in the narrative, but these are separate to the discussion and I'm not asking for them. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".



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