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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3802
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mornin!
Below you will find the first pass on pirate faction frigates ready for public review. It is our hope to deliver a rebalance on all 15 non-SOE pirate faction ships this summer(yay). Before I lay out the numbers for the frigates as they stand currently, I want to talk a bit about the themes for each faction, where those themes stand in relation to the frigates, and how that might connect to the cruisers and battleships down the line.
Sansha: Sansha needs help. The Nightmare is getting used, mostly as a PVE platform, but the Succubus and Phantasm are among the least used ships in EVE. That means we have an opportunity to try something new! The theme we are currently excited about revolves around afterburners. By giving a substantial boost to the velocity bonus from afterburners we create an extremely powerful frigate, a lot of new options for the cruiser, and affect the Nightmare the least, which matches well with the impact we want.
Blood: This line is very similar in some ways to Sansha. We have a battleship in the Bhaalgorn with a unique and valuable niche and then a frigate and cruiser that almost no one uses. The main difference with Blood is that, when it comes to energy warfare, you get very different roles at different sizes even with the same bonus, so it can be difficult to find a way to tie all three together. What we are proposing at the moment is to change the web effectiveness bonus to web range for the Cruor and Ashimmu(which is a broadly useful bonus AND doesn't overlap with Serpentis AND matches the Bhaalgorn) and then to give all three "old NOS", that is, Energy Vampires would continue to leech from your target until their cap reaches zero, regardless of your own cap level. This would be role bonus functionality that stacks on top of the old bonus to energy turret damage as well as the NOS/Neut effectiveness bonus from Amarr. This should offer a lot of new and powerful options to Blood Raiders without having any negative impact on the Bhaalgorn's current role.
Guristas: This has probably been the hardest faction to figure out. The Rattlesnake and Gila both have their uses but are both overshadowed in many ways by the new Ishtar and Dominix. We wanted Guristas to keep a drone theme but to move in a new and unique direction rather than trying to compete directly with other popular drone ships. As the Worm shows below, we are looking at giving each Guristas ship a bandwidth that allows for only two drones, but a large damage and hitpoint bonus to those drones, leading to very high overall drone damage and toughness. Additionally, the former missile velocity bonus will change to kinetic and thermal missile damage, giving Guristas even more punch. I understand that you will need specifics on the other two Guristas ships to make final opinions on the theme, but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there.
Serpentis: One of the strongest and most fun pirate factions at the moment is certainly Serpentis. We didn't want to make major changes in theme, but there is a big conversation that can be had about the web strength bonus. As it stands, at 10% per level, it is one of the strongest bonuses in the game and in the right situation it can feel downright broken. For now, I intend to leave it at full strength. While it is very powerful, I believe it delivers on the excitement and special feel that pirate factions ought to provide. If you disagree and feel that this bonus is having a negative impact on your gameplay please let us know and we can continue to weigh the pros and cons here as this balance pass continues.
Angel: And last we have the most popular pirate faction, which is doing pretty well at all three sizes. The biggest problem Angels face is direct competition with other Minmatar ships and a light case of OP. The Dramiel isn't getting any big changes and the other two Angel ships probably won't see any huge change in style or function either, but wait for later threads to discuss their specifics please.
For the frigs we are in a situation where there are two performing well (Dramiel and Daredevil) and 3 that are virtually unused. That means the buffs for those 3 (Succubus, Cruor, Worm) come in the form of pretty heavy attribute gains as well as re-design in terms of bonuses. In general this class is getting some updates to bring them into the post-tiericide world so things like base speed and lock range will get tweaks across the board.
Anyway, here you go, let us know what you think: (note: it's possible that there's typos or other small errors in these stat lists so if you notice something really odd just let me know)
SUCCUBUS
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed
Role Bonus: 125% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)
Slot layout: 3H(-1), 4M, 3L(+1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 44 PWG(-14), 170 CPU(-5) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(+41) / 550(+6) / 540(+23) Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450(+15) / 210000 (-24375) / 2.14 (+.09) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+53) / 3.5(-.35) / 965000 / 4.68s(-.4) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32km / 650 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Signature radius: 33(+2)
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CRUOR
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness
Minmatar Frigate Bonus: 20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)
Slot layout: 4H, 3M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 50 PWG(-7), 140 CPU(+3) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-103) / 740(+83) / 580(-2) Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 470 / 205000 (-29375) / 2.24 (+.23) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330(+22) / 3.6 / 1003000 / 5.01s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km(+8km) / 760 / 6 Sensor strength: 12 Signature radius: 35
========================================================================================
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% bonus ... |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3806
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:I think the DD could use a tad more lockrange
E: Why does the Dram get such a huge PG nerf
The Dram was a typo, PG isn't changing.
DD got exactly a tad more lock range already =)
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3807
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Posted - 2014.02.25 14:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Morwennon wrote:Will they still have the slightly odd 350 calibration for rigs, or will that be bumped up to 400 as was done for the empire faction ships?
For now the plan is to leave them at the awkward 350. We did have a discussion about this and I don't feel really strongly either way. 400 is nicer for consistency and cleanliness but there also isn't a need for the power boost from the extra 50.
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3825
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I must say it is nice to read this thread, although surely with this much happiness I've done something wrong...
Anyway! A few points on some things I see coming up a lot:
The Succubus bonuses are on the wrong race skill - yes! I will flip that around immediately. We need a missile based pirate faction - yes! We didn't want to use an existing faction for this for a few different reasons (Imagine the rage if Angel turned into missiles or Guristas just became Caldari), but we would like to address it as soon as possible. I don't know when that will be, but it won't be never. Why not ewar drone bonus for Guristas? - ewar drones are kind of a mess currently and we don't want to explicitly commit ships to being bonused for them until we solve that. The Cruor range bonuses are out of whack - yes! The last iteration actually had the Cruor setup with an energy warfare range bonus. In the end we just found too many problems with that version and feel a lot better about this one, even though some times it may seem awkward. The vampire bonus is much more unique and pushes the ships towards a much different play style that should be a lot more interesting than some kind of hybrid ewar support ship that is overshadowed in any one purpose by a tech 2 ship. On top, this bonus set is very solid at all three ship sizes. I'll try to look for some other stuff to respond to but I can't remember other big ones right this second.
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3825
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ashley Animus wrote:There would be no need to continue the 300% drone bonus on the gila and rattlesnake. Serpentis and Angel ships also don't have a consistant bonus for their damage.
Daredevil 200% Vigilant 75% Vindicator 37.5%
Dramiel 100% Cynabal 25% ROF and 10% damage per level Machariel 25% ROF and 5% damage per level
The only consistant ones were sansha and blood and now sansha is leaving blood behind on that too it seems.
^^
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3175
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hey guys,
We really need some more rants and complains to be going on in this thread please. All the confusion caused by the positive comments is getting to CCP Rise's head - he's becoming irrational and randomly attacking various people in the office. We'd use the straight-jacket to tie him up for a while, but it's currently being occupied by CCP Fozzie as he's having his daily drooling fit.
Thank you for your cooperation citizens. |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3825
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
A couple more clarifications:
I said 'old nos' in the OP but that can be a bit confusing considering there has been a few different versions. The description provided by bobfrommarketing (I think thats who it was) is very accurate - "Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level". So, it will NOT continue to generate cap when your target is empty, it just doesn't have the same limitation has normal nos where you must have less cap than your target. It's been mentioned that the missile damage bonus on the Worm doesn't make sense as a Gallente bonus and should be on the role bonus. I agree that it would be ideal to have it that way in terms of flavor but giving a 60% per level bonus would mean that the ship was basically unusable until you had Gallente Frigate 5 and we really don't like that. And I've also seen at least one person say they thought we were done with damage type specific bonuses, and we are not. It's a nice tool to use in certain places. I can confirm that 10mn AB Succbus is gross, it's 5k/sec or something before links. We are ok with this. In the post I quoted above I just meant to highlight that we are not limited to 300% for the other Guristas ships, but again, let's talk about those when we get to them.
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3828
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jasen Harper wrote:As a "perfect" Tachmare pilot, I would like to find out if I am going to be losing 25% of my turret damage.
I was never real good at math so how does this stack with 100% hull bonus and how might this (trading turret damage bonus with AB speed bonus) effect that?
You will have to wait for the Battleship thread to know for sure, and I'm not past internal review steps with those yet so I don't even know, but I can say that there is no chance of you losing 25% of your DPS. That would be ridiculous. |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3828
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Posted - 2014.02.25 18:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Since it's come up a few times, even though I'm not talking about cruisers in this thread, in current sketches the Vigilant would gain 14k lock range. Don't you worry. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
919
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Posted - 2014.02.26 14:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules: 3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3868
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Posted - 2014.02.26 17:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hi guys sorry for the space between posts, I wasn't in the office today, and I'm still not
There's two things I can say, one is that we are going to change the Succubus role bonus damage from 125% to 150% to keep the damage potential the same as before. Thanks someone in the thread for pointing that out.
Second, I'll try to put together a longer post tomorrow addressing the conversations around the missile bonus on the Worm and the web bonus on the Cruor. For now I have to leave you with just this though =/
Thanks |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3890
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Posted - 2014.03.04 10:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alright, I'm back from a busy weekend of birthday and New Eden Open (If you didn't watch I highly recommend you do!).
First, I wish this stuff was going to Sisi soon so you all could actually get your hands on it, but unfortunately that won't be for a while still. I posted it rather early so that I could get reactions to these themes before investing more work in the other two classes, which has paid off really well for me so thanks for that.
So by now it seems like the Cruor has won as the most contentious with the Worm and Succubus following close behind.
There's actually several reasons why the Cruor ended up like this and I feel pretty good about all of them. The most important is that it's difficult to push the bonuses in a different direction without finding a lot of overlap with other ship(s) and/or getting far too powerful. For instance, if we dropped webs entirely and gave it some kind of range bonus for cap-warfare it ends up competing heavily with the Sentinel or Dragoon AND is likely too powerful. The current layout is very unique and while the range synergy isn't perfect, that certainly doesn't mean the ship isn't useful for powerful. On top of that, a big goal in this pass was to unify the themes across the entire faction line. You will see more of that when I can post the threads for cruisers and battleships, but wanting a set of bonuses that translates well to all three classes is valuable and this Cruor set does that well.
Most complaints about the Worm at this point seem centered around the missile bonus. As I've already said, I agree that it's a little weird to have a missile bonus on the Gallente skill, but there really isn't a good way out of this. If the drone bonus is on the Gallente skill you are essentially required to have that skill to 5 which we would rather avoid. As for having the missile bonus at all, we preferred giving the option of very high damage output to Guristas over giving more specialized drone bonuses that would either overlap with other ships or not be very useful. That certainly doesn't mean you are required to fit missiles and seeing Worms with Neutralizers rather than missiles wouldn't surprise me at all. Oh, and I wanted to mention that the Worm missile bonus absolutely DOES affect rockets.
At this point it seems that most people agree the new Sansha bonus is useful and powerful but some worry it may not fit Sansha flavor-wise. I'm not a huge expert on flavor of course, but from my perspective, Sansha really don't have a lot of flavor associated with their actual gameplay. Using lasers and being aggressive jerks seems like it covers the majority of what we know about them and I see no reason that an afterburner bonus can't fit into their character. I would also hate to give up a good gameplay design in the name of flavor unless it was extremely disruptive. I hope you Sansha loyalists can integrate this into your idea of how Sansha work without too much discomfort :)
Again, thanks for the discussion, it's helped a lot with pinning down some details on these 5 ships as well as the cruisers and battleships, which you will hopefully get to see before too long.
Hope I answered at least some of your questions.
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3920
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Posted - 2014.04.01 11:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hello
Fozzie and I spent some time looking at the Cruor today because of your concerns and we decided that we still want to use this as a starting point. Some sisi testing would be really valuable but we still can't make that happen just yet. If we find that things don't go well on sisi or if usage doesn't get a significant bump after TQ release we will probably improve the damage output. For now, all the changes we tried just look too strong to use as a first version.
Hopefully we will have posts on the other pirate classes coming very soon, we were waiting on a dev blog which will have an impact on pirate balance which should be coming out very soon and then we can show you the rest of the ships.
o/ |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3035
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Posted - 2014.05.08 14:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Removed a post for trolling. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4236
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. @ccp_rise |
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