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Yegor
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:26:00 -
[1]
Why is that when you turn them off, you lose speed? Space has no air friction or gravity, so there is no reason why you should slow down after you turn off the engines, unless you turn them the other way.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:27:00 -
[2]
Inertia dampeners. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: ToxicFire on 18/04/2006 19:31:34
its eve neutonian physics doesn't apply we obey the physical laws of oveur.
Oh and inetial dampner would only work within the confines of the ship on other physical bodies ie the crew
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:35:00 -
[4]
balance
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
Who pwned who? ~kieron
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:37:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: ToxicFire
Edited by: ToxicFire on 18/04/2006 19:31:34
its eve neutonian physics doesn't apply we obey the physical laws of oveur.
Oh and inetial dampner would only work within the confines of the ship on other physical bodies ie the crew
Inertia dampenining field?
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: HippoKing
balance
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
Who pwned who? ~kieron
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Yegor
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:41:00 -
[7]
How is that gonna affect anything? You give a kick to a body in space, if no external forces are present, it will keep going indefinably at that speed. So assuming u dont make any course corrections... you should keep going at the same speed.
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Kelron Queldine
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: HippoKing
balance
QFT
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Signatures are for the weak. |
Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:49:00 -
[9]
I think they did this to make it more intuitive for people to play.
I mean if we used standard acceleration physics, a ships would accelerate at say 5M/s, so after 5 seconds, it'd be going 25m/s, after 10 it'd be going 50m/s.
Ships would whip by each other so fast that you wouldn't be able to hit them with turrents, and it'd be too fast to render on the screen. Missles would act differently and so on.
Doing it this way is easier for the dev team.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.18 19:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Eternal Fury
Doing it this way is easier for the dev team.
it also stops me orbitting a gate at 1000s of m/s in my raven prawning everyone with missiles while they can't hit me for love nor money
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
Who pwned who? ~kieron
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.18 20:22:00 -
[11]
/me wonders if I fire projectile cannons on one side of my ship, will my ship spin to the other side because of recoil?
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Sanctus Maleficus
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Posted - 2006.04.18 20:32:00 -
[12]
You should try playing Allegiance if you want good space physics. Well, I remember them being great (such as this AB deal)... could blast forward, rotate around and fly backward really fast while blasting someone behind you. Its even open source and free now. Best game you never played. ;)
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Hunters Presence
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Posted - 2006.04.18 20:33:00 -
[13]
Quote:
You should try playing Allegiance if you want good space physics. Well, I remember them being great (such as this AB deal)... could blast forward, rotate around and fly backward really fast while blasting someone behind you. Its even open source and free now. Best game you never played. ;)
Good game if you can set the damn thing up. If you want real good space physics, grab a copy of Microsoft Space Simulator
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Lead Games Programmer | Quasit-Rushyo Games | I'm oh so sorry that my image was less than 5000 binary digits over the limit. |
Xeios
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Posted - 2006.04.18 20:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: HippoKing
it also stops me orbitting a gate at 1000s of m/s in my raven prawning everyone with missiles while they can't hit me for love nor money
Sorry that would still be impossible with real life physics 
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Splagada
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Posted - 2006.04.18 20:43:00 -
[15]
considering you can go to 500 000 km/s, i wouldnt go on warp physics :p
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Member of [AAST] |
Mr Schmidt
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Posted - 2006.04.18 20:44:00 -
[16]
Bad design.
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.04.18 20:55:00 -
[17]
Edited by: ToxicFire on 18/04/2006 21:00:24
Originally by: Yegor
How is that gonna affect anything? You give a kick to a body in space, if no external forces are present, it will keep going indefinably at that speed. So assuming u dont make any course corrections... you should keep going at the same speed.
yuh but in reality theres always some force present, there only be one spot in the universe where no existing external forces would apply to an object and thats a universal la grange point and thats neigh impossible to calculate without been able to simultaniously track and know the mass of every single object in the universe at once, including the object you were trying to position that no external forces acted upon it. ie its one of thoses theoretically possible things but highly improbable to execute, ie number of bodies that have mass in the unverse to the power of the number of bodies in the universe that have mass. Though the effect is neglible until you get close to a body the majority of the time.
Theres been some good physics engines out there though none have really been applied in a fully functional way in mmo's, I wouldn't be suprised if we see MMO's push the level of realism in large world physics engines in the next few years. Though I doubt a near neutonian physics engine with the eve navigation style would work well at all, to many aspects to cope with at once it requires much more of a flightstick approach to control.
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FIzzer
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Posted - 2006.04.18 21:01:00 -
[18]
Meh, the good'ol "Blasteroids" had it going. continuous acceleration with unlimited speed. 
Those were the days 
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Kaemonn
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Posted - 2006.04.18 21:03:00 -
[19]
Space physics arent easy to replicate with in a game engine. It also makes game play exponentially harder to deal with. Eve, among other space games use under water physics to similate space. Its much easier to deal with and much easier to program to. Thats why once you turn your MWD/AB off, you slow down quickly depending on mass.
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.04.18 21:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kaemonn
Space physics arent easy to replicate with in a game engine. It also makes game play eponentially harder to deal with. Eve, among other space games use under water physics to similate space. Its much easier to deal with and much easier to program to. Thats why once you turn your MWD/AB off, you slow down quickly depending on mass.
Friction ya gotta love it. Make me wonder how your going to implement planetary aspects, if we have accessible atmospheres its almost certainlly gonna require a second server.
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Rells
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Posted - 2006.04.18 21:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Yegor
How is that gonna affect anything? You give a kick to a body in space, if no external forces are present, it will keep going indefinably at that speed. So assuming u dont make any course corrections... you should keep going at the same speed.
Well it wont go indefinitely and there are forces acting on a ship and eveythign else in space. That is the reason the moon, the earth, the solar system and even the galazy orbits. There is also particle in space that will slow you down. In Eve its greatly exagerated of course but thinking that the theoretical baseball thrown in space owuld go forever is false.
◄ PvP University: Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? |
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Kaemonn
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Posted - 2006.04.18 21:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ToxicFire
Originally by: Kaemonn
Space physics arent easy to replicate with in a game engine. It also makes game play eponentially harder to deal with. Eve, among other space games use under water physics to similate space. Its much easier to deal with and much easier to program to. Thats why once you turn your MWD/AB off, you slow down quickly depending on mass.
Friction ya gotta love it. Make me wonder how your going to implement planetary aspects, if we have accessible atmospheres its almost certainlly gonna require a second server.
Not really. It will need a loading screen to transfer a session change though. Atmospheric and gravity are much easier to use in a game engine, seeing thats how they were meant to be used
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:02:00 -
[23]
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Mr Schmidt
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
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Cigs Mcduff
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
Go play them then.
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Cigs McDuff
Director, Deep Space Industrial Enterprises [DPIE] |
Mr Schmidt
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cigs Mcduff
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
Go play them then.
I will. My EvE subscription runs out the 25th and Independence War is already installed. (I'm not quitting EvE because of the physics though.)
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
since when did freelancer have proper physics? i didn't play edge of chaos 
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
Who pwned who? ~kieron
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:28:00 -
[28]
"Why is that when you turn them off, you lose speed?"
It's so you have to continually spend your ship's capacitor to keep your afb/mwd running, as long as you want to move faster than normal. Otherwise you could maintain high speed practically for free, short of the initial expense.
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BlackDragonShadow
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:37:00 -
[29]
Edited by: BlackDragonShadow on 18/04/2006 22:39:30
WAIT! Don'w worry don't frett I have the answer! I've delved deep into the minds of the developers asking proping questions and recieveing little if no respones. But I finally did it! I now know why MWD and AB slow the ship down when you turn them off. It's called.....magic
But not just ANY magic. SPACE magic. Thank you Thank you. (bows)
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |
ReaperOfSly
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:48:00 -
[30]
Either it's quantum, or a wizard did it. There.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Signatures must be eve related - Laqum
Huh? Since when? - ReaperOfSly |
Cigs Mcduff
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Posted - 2006.04.18 22:49:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Cigs Mcduff on 18/04/2006 22:49:03
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Cigs Mcduff
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
Go play them then.
I will. My EvE subscription runs out the 25th and Independence War is already installed. (I'm not quitting EvE because of the physics though.)
K, byebye *waves* you'll be quittin on my birthday too, what a present hehe ;-)
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Cigs McDuff
Director, Deep Space Industrial Enterprises [DPIE] |
Mr Schmidt
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Posted - 2006.04.18 23:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
since when did freelancer have proper physics? i didn't play edge of chaos
Been a while since I played it, but if I recall correctly the ship would slow down when you let go of the accelerator, but that was because of the autopilot thingy and you had a button to disable it. So you could whip your ship around and fly backwards without loosing momentum. Now that I think about it I'm not sure if Freelancer had the "unlimited acceleration" thing, but Independence War did anyway.
(One of the funniest tricks in Independence War was a trick that involved some serious acceleration, a station and an externally loaded cargo crate filled with antimatter. Now THAT made a big boom.)
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.04.19 00:01:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Yegor
Why is that when you turn them off, you lose speed? Space has no air friction or gravity, so there is no reason why you should slow down after you turn off the engines, unless you turn them the other way.
Hi there, I was asked to hand you this:
Originally by: Important News
You are playing a game.
Any similarity to physics in the 'real worldÖ' is purely coincidental, and allowed only where it does not compromise 'gameplayÖ'
If you have any questions or comments about the Eve universe, please send them on a postcard to:
"Why is 42 important to the structure of Eve?
Servant Sisters Of Eve
Sisters of EVE Academy
X-7OMU IV - Moon 3"
We would like to thank you for your interest in this matter.
Mind the gap.
Hope that helps.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Apertotes
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Posted - 2006.04.19 01:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kaemonn
Space physics arent easy to replicate with in a game engine. It also makes game play exponentially harder to deal with. Eve, among other space games use under water physics to similate space. Its much easier to deal with and much easier to program to. Thats why once you turn your MWD/AB off, you slow down quickly depending on mass.
now, that is great, but why didnt we get EVE Online: A Sub-Aquatic Opera?
Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve |
Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.04.19 02:40:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kaemonn
Space physics arent easy to replicate with in a game engine. It also makes game play exponentially harder to deal with. Eve, among other space games use under water physics to similate space. Its much easier to deal with and much easier to program to. Thats why once you turn your MWD/AB off, you slow down quickly depending on mass.
If you need an IC reason for it then there is the possibility that the Eve gate took the first colonists to another dimension with slightly different physical rules. It could also explain why the Moa looks like a cyborg girrafe.
>> RECRUITING << |
Afreeq
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Posted - 2006.04.19 03:38:00 -
[36]
And why arent there millions of loot cans rocketing through every area of space gathering up fragments and ice and turning into comets?
how can all of my guns always launch bullets at the targt and not through my own hull when im rotating in space?
We just cant have all the physics take place or the game would be too incredibly difficult to play. some lines must be drawn and personally i think CCP have found the proper balance.
CCP 4TW
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Phelan Lore
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Posted - 2006.04.19 04:55:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Phelan Lore on 19/04/2006 04:56:09
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
since when did freelancer have proper physics? i didn't play edge of chaos
Freelancer didn't have proper physics exactly, but if you turned off your engine you keep moving in the same direction and could turn around and shoot backwards.
...Which wasn't exactly that useful cause the weapons had travel time and now were moving the opposite direction of you ship. But it was pretty nice for turning quickly and forcing a head on head confrontation so that you could dump a cannonball missile in your opponents face... but now I'm rambling. 
I should reinstall that game and beat it again. :)
________________
~Phelan Lore
Your isk has become my isk, by way of my actions... |
Corunna ElMan
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Posted - 2006.04.19 05:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Yegor
How is that gonna affect anything? You give a kick to a body in space, if no external forces are present, it will keep going indefinably at that speed. So assuming u dont make any course corrections... you should keep going at the same speed.
You know what the word for that is? Inertia!
Now, then, don't you think an inertial dampening field would have an effect upon that? It is, after all, what makes warp drive possible (not to mention keeping the pilot from being smeared into a fine paste along the inside of his capsule, not even goo can offset that kind of acceleration!)
- - - - -
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown |
Rabbitgod
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Posted - 2006.04.19 05:39:00 -
[39]
Everything you need to know about AB's and MWD's
Here
Kills last month: 310
Damage done est: $5 350 000 000 (w/o mods) |
Andrew Gunn
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Posted - 2006.04.19 06:00:00 -
[40]
I can easily explain the MWD slowing you down when it's turned off pretty easily. You see your ship's warp drive (the thing that allows you to go from gate to gate, planet to planet really fast) works by surrounding your ship with a "bubble" of negative energy. Which basically seperates you from normal space-time. A MWD works in the same way, but without taking you completly out of normal space-time. When the MWD is turned off you drop back into the normal space-time and your ship is suddenly going faster then our rules allow it to (based on the amount of energy you expended with your sub-light engines), thus you slow down.
Anyone at CCP want to hire me yet?
--
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turnschuh
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Posted - 2006.04.19 08:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Andrew Gunn
I can easily explain the MWD slowing you down when it's turned off pretty easily. You see your ship's warp drive (the thing that allows you to go from gate to gate, planet to planet really fast) works by surrounding your ship with a "bubble" of negative energy. Which basically seperates you from normal space-time. A MWD works in the same way, but without taking you completly out of normal space-time. When the MWD is turned off you drop back into the normal space-time and your ship is suddenly going faster then our rules allow it to (based on the amount of energy you expended with your sub-light engines), thus you slow down.
Anyone at CCP want to hire me yet?
uh 
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Ulalume
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Posted - 2006.04.19 08:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Andrew Gunn
I can easily explain the MWD slowing you down when it's turned off pretty easily. You see your ship's warp drive (the thing that allows you to go from gate to gate, planet to planet really fast) works by surrounding your ship with a "bubble" of negative energy. Which basically seperates you from normal space-time. A MWD works in the same way, but without taking you completly out of normal space-time. When the MWD is turned off you drop back into the normal space-time and your ship is suddenly going faster then our rules allow it to (based on the amount of energy you expended with your sub-light engines), thus you slow down.
Actually that wouldn't matter, as you'd still have the inertia from going faster. It's just because it's easier to program and better for game balance.
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.04.19 09:28:00 -
[43]
Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 19/04/2006 09:32:30
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
since when did freelancer have proper physics? i didn't play edge of chaos
Freelancer has it if you mod it. :)
To be honest, flying a ship with newtonian laws of physics... is a bloody nightmare. In freelancer flying a nomad battleship, with a speed mod. It would take you about an hour to slow down to zero speed, to start to turn in the right direction again. you'd just slide through space sideways for bloody ages.
Same with independence war, I've played the demo... blimmin awful, you try and stay out of the range of the sentry guns but dammit... you slide and slide and slide.
On a related note. I was reading final year projects in my university the other week. Someone's designed a physics lab for the computer, and actually managed to include different "viscosities" of atmosphere. Only thing is apparantly its "further work" for it to support space environments. Must be quite difficult to model nothing, dealing with infinate accelerations means that well... a computer just couldnt do it properly even in freelancer and independence war you could only go so fast (independence war appeared to have the speed declared as a double as it was a huge speed, but freelancer would stop accelerating at about 1200). Imagine trying to get a data structure that could hold an infinite number, and even then you'd run out of memory space to hold it. You'd effectively be coding in your own memory leak.
-----
If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people
Eve & Linux Woot! |
ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.04.19 09:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad
Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 19/04/2006 09:32:30
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
since when did freelancer have proper physics? i didn't play edge of chaos
Freelancer has it if you mod it. :)
To be honest, flying a ship with newtonian laws of physics... is a bloody nightmare. In freelancer flying a nomad battleship, with a speed mod. It would take you about an hour to slow down to zero speed, to start to turn in the right direction again. you'd just slide through space sideways for bloody ages.
Same with independence war, I've played the demo... blimmin awful, you try and stay out of the range of the sentry guns but dammit... you slide and slide and slide.
On a related note. I was reading final year projects in my university the other week. Someone's designed a physics lab for the computer, and actually managed to include different "viscosities" of atmosphere. Only thing is apparantly its "further work" for it to support space environments. Must be quite difficult to model nothing, dealing with infinate accelerations means that well... a computer just couldnt do it properly even in freelancer and independence war you could only go so fast (independence war appeared to have the speed declared as a double as it was a huge speed, but freelancer would stop accelerating at about 1200). Imagine trying to get a data structure that could hold an infinite number, and even then you'd run out of memory space to hold it. You'd effectively be coding in your own memory leak.
Thats because you don't just put ya foot the floor, in independance war the trick was to a majority of the time when your evading it was an idea to face in the opposit direction to travel tapping thrust to deccerlate
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.04.19 09:39:00 -
[45]
lol.. well I spent most of my time in the "emergency" thing trying to repair systems that were getting shot to pieces by sentry guns that I ended up in range of whilst trying to get somewhere else! :D
-----
If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people
Eve & Linux Woot! |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.19 09:57:00 -
[46]
also, in freelancer (and presumably independence war), you were in direct control. in eve you are not, so it would be even more of a ***** to control
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
Who pwned who? ~kieron
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Mr Schmidt
|
Posted - 2006.04.19 13:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad
Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 19/04/2006 09:32:30
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Mr Schmidt
Originally by: Dark Shikari
All game engines do it this way. They do the physics as if space was filled with water, basically.
Not all game engines do it that way, no. Both Freelancer and Edge of Chaos: Independence War has proper physics.
since when did freelancer have proper physics? i didn't play edge of chaos
Freelancer has it if you mod it. :)
To be honest, flying a ship with newtonian laws of physics... is a bloody nightmare. In freelancer flying a nomad battleship, with a speed mod. It would take you about an hour to slow down to zero speed, to start to turn in the right direction again. you'd just slide through space sideways for bloody ages.
Same with independence war, I've played the demo... blimmin awful, you try and stay out of the range of the sentry guns but dammit... you slide and slide and slide.
On a related note. I was reading final year projects in my university the other week. Someone's designed a physics lab for the computer, and actually managed to include different "viscosities" of atmosphere. Only thing is apparantly its "further work" for it to support space environments. Must be quite difficult to model nothing, dealing with infinate accelerations means that well... a computer just couldnt do it properly even in freelancer and independence war you could only go so fast (independence war appeared to have the speed declared as a double as it was a huge speed, but freelancer would stop accelerating at about 1200). Imagine trying to get a data structure that could hold an infinite number, and even then you'd run out of memory space to hold it. You'd effectively be coding in your own memory leak.
Flying a hip in newtonian physics is actually alot of fun. The time to slow down your ship will never be longer than the time you used to accelerate. And in Independece war you could always just turn on the auto stabilizer thingies and then it would work something like EvE.
In independence war you could accelerate to speeds waaay beyond usefulness. I remember watching suns zoom by from a tiny dot to far behind me in less than a second when I tried it out.
Btw. I wasn't comparing EvE to Independence War when I first brought it up. I only mentioned it because someone claimed that all game engines did space as if it was filled with water.
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Serendipity007
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Posted - 2006.04.19 14:01:00 -
[48]
I have the answer!
The reason all ships have a maximum speed and have to manuver like airplanes is the same reason you can hear all those lovely explosions in space.
IN EVE THERE IS PLENTY OF AIR IN SPACE!
It makes perfect sense, if there was no air in EvE space, you could accelerate to infinity and back, and people would overshoot their target over and over again. In reality, you could go infinitely fast in space, since there is VERY LITTLE friction. What little friction there is is caused by dust particles, solar wind, etc. So even a battleship could go 15,000 m/s, although it would take 500km just to slow down! So they added air to slow you down!
Not only that, EvE would be pretty boring if there were no sounds other than the ones coming from inside your ship. Sure there would be the generic "ping" and "boom" when something hit your hull, but you wouldn't be able to hear the satisfying "boom" when your torpedo hit a target. So they added air to transmit sounds!
Also, when all those ships and torpedo's explode, what makes them so pretty? It's air of course! If there was no oxygen in EvE space, then most of the explosions wouldn't be as pretty! Without oxygen, you can't have those meaty ship explosions when you finally take down that dreadnaught. They added air to enhance the explosions!
And what about those poor people stuck in those loot cans? How do you think those Exotic Dancers survive for 2 hours in that teeny jettison can? The cans have vents to the outside air in space! CCP didn't want all those VIP's and Homeless people do DIE in those containers, so they added air to keep the NPC's in cans alive!
Disclaimer: If you belive all this, I have a Titan to sell you in Jita.
On the topic of realistic space sims, I would have to say the most realistic space sim that I have ever played is Babylon 5: I Found Her. You fly the Starfuries with very realistic physics. You can accelerate indefinately, but you have to be careful not to overshoot your intended target. It does have an automatic stabilization system that only allows you to go about 250 m/s so you don't slide into an asteroid or something. (It's painful, I did it many times ^_^) One of the best space combat sims I have ever played. Too bad its only a demo.
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"I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: The Original Series |
Plutoinum
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Posted - 2006.04.19 14:30:00 -
[49]
Playability ?
Sometimes it's better not to ask questions and enjoy it like it is, escpecially if you know that these questions won't bring you any further.
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Freya Runestone
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Posted - 2006.04.19 14:49:00 -
[50]
in Freelancer you would never be able to go more than 300 (was is m/s)? and when you cut your engines you would slowly lose speed, the main difference between the ship classes was manuverability and firepower. Originally by: Afreeq
And why arent there millions of loot cans rocketing through every area of space gathering up fragments and ice and turning into comets?
how can all of my guns always launch bullets at the targt and not through my own hull when im rotating in space?
We just cant have all the physics take place or the game would be too incredibly difficult to play. some lines must be drawn and personally i think CCP have found the proper balance.
CCP 4TW
never noticed how for every gun you put on your ship there will be 2? there is one on each side of the ship. so you have a 360 degree firing angle
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Serendipity007
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:24:00 -
[51]
aww, nobody even laughed at my silly post? I think it deserves at least one LOL...
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"I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: The Original Series |
Kata Dakini
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Posted - 2006.04.20 17:27:00 -
[52]
The Truth¬ lies within...
Every ship has built in deceleration (reverse) thrusters, designed to counter the effects of your forward thrusters. Through no control of your own, these reverse thrusters are fired once your afterburner disengages, in turn slowing your ship to normal speeds.
Why are they fired automatically? It is assumed that by disengaging your afterburner, you wish to slow down, therefore they are fired.
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Anarlina
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Posted - 2006.06.02 00:54:00 -
[53]
Well, even in space you cannot accelerate indefinitely. According to General Relativity, as you accelerate closer to c (speed of light), you actually gain mass. Even assuming infinite fuel, with a fixed mass for that fuel... there would be a point where you keep getting less and less acceleration out of the thrust (your acceleration would approach, but never quite be zero, even as you sat less than 0.1% away from c).
And just because there is little friction in a near-vacuum doesn't mean you don't have to slow down when turning. To do a 90 degree turn, you can't just 'turn'. You have to decelerate in the direction you are heading, and accelerate in the new direction. Even doing this simultaneously gives the appearance/feel of slowing down and taking a slow, large turn... and if you want to do a 180... well... the fastest way is to just apply thrust, hit 0m/s, and keep applying the thrust until you are moving again.
As for games with interesting physics... Terminus was one which used a Newtonian model. They just limited speeds by having your ship tear itself apart if you went too fast.
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