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Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:28:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
problem is if someone doesnt like the color of your ship they can war dec for pennies, war dec costs need to be raised based on the number of players in a corp, smaller the target corp the more it costs. deccing a 1 man corp should be like 500mil a day.
If you can find it, I made a post on inlining war declaration costs with, what I thought, was a balanced approach to war-dec'ing (or at least a far more balanced one than is current), embracing the reality of the inflation in Eve over the last few years since the price was initially set.
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In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:36:00 -
[32]
Even at the start of Eve the wardec cost was nominal. This is intentional. And no, SP are an exremely BAD guide to combat power.
Viktor Fyretracker, if they know wehere you are at all times and only pay while you're in space, sure. And they've fixed the scan probes. And...
Iron Wraith, why SHOULD they be able to duck the consequences of their actions?
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.04.23 02:57:00 -
[33]
SP weren't intended to be a gauge of combat power so much as a guage of experience. And it is a far better system than what we have now.
It is kind of silly to talk about consequences while defending an exploit that avoids them.
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In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
Lygos
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Posted - 2006.04.23 04:09:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Lygos on 23/04/2006 04:10:08
I can see why I might have once had a position on the issue out of principle or something.. but not that much these days.
It just isn't that much of an issue. They can't leave high sec space any more than anyone else. Sure, they're scummy bastards who might insult you or play afk or something. Oh well. The real world is fully of similar people you can't really touch. My own profession isn't much different.
The only real problem is that they can compete evenly with pc corp members on the market. Not that many people declare wars simply because someone else is undercutting them on the price of armageddons though..
A simple 3-5% market tax or a 10% npcing tithe would be sufficient for making the situation equitable in terms of formalism.
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Set Orbit
Eunoia: The persistent suspicion that the universe is secretly conspiring to quietly improve one's life |
TheJanitor
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Posted - 2006.04.23 07:45:00 -
[35]
Edited by: TheJanitor on 23/04/2006 07:46:00
Easy.
Just ban Barges and Battleships from newb corps...or at least fitting mining lasers on Barges and Battleships.
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.04.23 12:00:00 -
[36]
The problem with that is if you leave or get kicked from your corp, you end up in a noob corp. Now you can't fly your barge etc to take them elsewhere away from the POS you were stationed at. So banning NPC corp members from using certain ships affects other players who are trying to play the game as it was intended too.
The only viable solution would be to have NPC corps that are not untouchable and noobs are transferred into it when their sp reaches a certain limit. To prevent wardeccing an entire corp for a few people, individual war decs can be declared 1v1 or 2v2 etc. You name those in your corp who will wage war on those in the NPC corp. The limitation is that you cannot outnumber the other side but you can chose to let them outnumber you if you think you can cope.
I have macro miners in my system who come in just after DT and take all the Kernite. I'd love to be able to get them but Concord won't let me and they are in NPC corps so I can't war dec them. Many others like me are stuck in a situation where Macro miners are protected by the system and they are taking the resources that the "real" players need to actually play the game. There are groups of them in almost every system now and it's geting harder to play the game because of it. If they let the players war dec these people, it would thin them out some. CCP wouldn't need to do anything to stop them, they would soon leave when they are losing more than they can mine.
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Mahavy Seth
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Posted - 2006.04.23 12:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Drizit
The problem with that is if you leave or get kicked from your corp, you end up in a noob corp. Now you can't fly your barge etc to take them elsewhere away from the POS you were stationed at. So banning NPC corp members from using certain ships affects other players who are trying to play the game as it was intended too.
The only viable solution would be to have NPC corps that are not untouchable and noobs are transferred into it when their sp reaches a certain limit. To prevent wardeccing an entire corp for a few people, individual war decs can be declared 1v1 or 2v2 etc. You name those in your corp who will wage war on those in the NPC corp. The limitation is that you cannot outnumber the other side but you can chose to let them outnumber you if you think you can cope.
I have macro miners in my system who come in just after DT and take all the Kernite. I'd love to be able to get them but Concord won't let me and they are in NPC corps so I can't war dec them. Many others like me are stuck in a situation where Macro miners are protected by the system and they are taking the resources that the "real" players need to actually play the game. There are groups of them in almost every system now and it's geting harder to play the game because of it. If they let the players war dec these people, it would thin them out some. CCP wouldn't need to do anything to stop them, they would soon leave when they are losing more than they can mine.
We will have 25millions SP players pirates that continuously declare on small groups of 5 millions SP players, massacrating them continuously until they are forced to leave the game or join a big corp, which anyway will be unable to protect them cause EVE PVP is all guerrilla fight.
Sig dimensions must be no more than 400x120. Please mail [email protected] for info - Cathath |
Iron Wraith
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Posted - 2006.04.25 09:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Iron Wraith, why SHOULD they be able to duck the consequences of their actions?
i think you misunderstood me. i'm saying you cant nerf the newbie corp for older players because some are in there for good reasons. some players dont want to be part of a player corp, they want to play solo. there are some players running lvl4 missions in their BS's that dont want to be part of a player corp. sure its not getting the most out of eve but why should we stop them if thats how they enjoy the game?
you can put restrictions on what gear a player can use, what skills they can train and if they can be individualy war deced just cos they are an older player in the newbie corp.
you need to find another way to get at abusers without ruining things for the innocent.
maybe being able to pay an extra amount to concord to chase players ducking out of a corp you've wardeced. if someone has been smack talking your members and generaly being a pain in the neck so you decide to war dec his corp it would be nice to pay concord an extra amount to war him even if he leaves the corp. maybe for balance it should be payed up front. so if you wind up in a war you had no part in you can still abandon you corp. but if your a [beep] and go round stiring things up then those you've offended can chase you no matter what corp your in.
so if you war dec a corp and specify for an aditional fee a hand full of corp members you are after concord will let your war dec follow them into the newbie corp. that will give corps more incentive to kick our the... erm... not so nice players.
what this doesnt let you do is get retribution on newbie corp griefers or macro miners. i suppose a system where you submited chat logs as evidence to concord (gm team) and requested a personal war would be a fair ssytem to allow griefers to be war deced while protecting the innocent. but i cant see that working due to the subjectivity of it and the number of man hours involved in overseeing a system like that.
and how do you identify macro miners? afk miners are easily confused with macroers. and what about someone who does have a lot of time and spends almost the entire day mining? how do you say he's a player and thats a bot? with all the fancy systems and tricks ccp could pull to make macroers life hard letting players war dec them would be the best by far. it would be the difference between not gaining any money cos your bot cant find the ore to mine, to loosing money cos your bot keeps letting ships get ganked by players.
but i dont think you can spot a bot from a player. anything you try to put in place to differentiate can be mimicked by a better bot. even to the point of the mouse + keyboard bots becoming redundent while memory managing bots take over.
hmm, i wonder if an extreemly wealthy player group could fund enough kamakazi ships to force a macro group out of the game? while macroers can make a lot of money a wealthy player group with t2 bpo's can make a lot more.
gad damnit. i wish you could war dec macroers. would be fun to go back to empire for some witch hunts 
Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots:
[2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage. |
Kensai Lans
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Posted - 2006.04.25 09:58:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Kensai Lans on 25/04/2006 09:59:06
Newb corps are for newbs, and newbs only really, that said experianced players can help newbs by answering questions in the corp channel, i dont think this can really be changed.
I think what really needs to be done is to find an effective way of picking up macro miners and banning them, i do find it weird that people join mmorpgs to sit in a newb corp tho and too not attempt to interact with others tho.
So i guess you could say im neutral :)
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Iron Wraith
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Posted - 2006.04.25 10:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kensai Lans
Edited by: Kensai Lans on 25/04/2006 09:59:06
Newb corps are for newbs, and newbs only really, that said experianced players can help newbs by answering questions in the corp channel, i dont think this can really be changed.
I think what really needs to be done is to find an effective way of picking up macro miners and banning them, i do find it weird that people join mmorpgs to sit in a newb corp tho and too not attempt to interact with others tho.
So i guess you could say im neutral :)
hehe yeah. it is kinda strange to play a multiplayer game solo but some like it that way. lets face it, you cant get the same feeling of a living breathing world in a single player game that u can in a game like eve. so why not use eve for solo play? it provides a much richer depth
anyway, i like your point on the vets helping the newbies. i've seen it a lot and do my bit when i'm on as an alt. and i like asking about to see how many solo players are out there. they do exist and they do have fun. they like the fact they can chat away while doing their own thing.
Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots:
[2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage. |
Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:00:00 -
[41]
Here's an interesting compromise. Eve is all about choices and repercussions (not always well done, but usually there). So, why not just have NPC corps:
1. have a 20% tax rate for rewards/bounties.
2. have NPC corps charge an additional 5%-10% tax to their members on all market sales (market sales are not subject to normal corp taxes).
Ramifications: new players get less income. new traders will make smaller margins. people who suck at math might lose money on the market. macro-miners will be competing at a disadvantage on the market. players who are starting to get along in their careers will be compelled to move towards player corps for fiscal reasons. player corps will no longer seem to be fleecing their members by having 10% tax rates.
This doesn't force players to leave NPC corps, but it does encourage it. People can still choose to play as they like, but there are competitive advantages to belonging to a player-corp.
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In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
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