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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
56
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Posted - 2014.03.06 14:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
Also note it was the guy's own decision to spend the first 1,500$ on a purple spaceship.
More importantly, he decided to throw away another 1,500$ right after he got absolute proof that shiny RNIs can get blown up very easily in highsec. No disclaimer would've stopped him.
You may disapprove of scams, but I'm sure we all agree that he would've lost that second RNI anyway. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4092
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 14:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
Maybe Jim is just misunderstood and needs the warm loving embrace of a space girlfriend. I have some great matches in mind. They are a bit high maintenance but well worth it Jim! See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17016
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 14:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Maybe Jim is just misunderstood and needs the warm loving embrace of a space girlfriend. I have some great matches in mind. They are a bit high maintenance but well worth it Jim! Do they have an amazon wishlist?
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
594
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 15:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Also note it was the guy's own decision to spend the first 1,500$ on a purple spaceship.
More importantly, he decided to throw away another 1,500$ right after he got absolute proof that shiny RNIs can get blown up very easily in highsec. No disclaimer would've stopped him.
You may disapprove of scams, but I'm sure we all agree that he would've lost that second RNI anyway. Here's where the dichotomy of me being a take-no-prisoners asshat, and giving new players a chance collide...
In-game I want to play aggressively and bend over other players whenever possible, without having to research or distinguish first if he is 'new'. That's simply not my job as a player of the piratic genre.
However, Jimblidge literally landed fresh off the boat from WoW and honestly didn't know he could be ganked in hisec, probably assuming being in 'HISEC' he was 100% safe. He shouldn't *be* safe, not what I'm saying -- but he should at least be TOLD in the new player tutorials implicitly that he is not safe in hisec.
In short, the failing here wasn't the gankers. It wasn't even 100% Jimblidge's. It was CCP"s, in not at least expectation-levelling with a new player that they CAN lose ships, get scammed, etc -- in CLEAR terms.
The real simple answer to all this isnt nerfs, its outlined here. After that, anything goes, and so should it.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4092
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 15:14:00 -
[65] - Quote
For every Jim we lose, I'm sure we gain at least 100 players each looking for the next Jim. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
57
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 15:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short, the failing here wasn't the gankers. It wasn't even 100% Jimblidge's. It was CCP"s, in not at least expectation-levelling with a new player that they CAN lose ships, get scammed, etc -- in CLEAR terms. The real simple answer to all this isnt nerfs, its outlined here. After that, anything goes, and so should it. CCP could put further warnings in the tutorial, even though this (section 5) is already pretty much clear.
The fact is, silly and/or reckless players will lose stuff in hilarious ways no matter what.
Regarding your personal issue, if you gank or scam somebody and then feel sorry about it just give them their stuff back.
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
594
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 16:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short, the failing here wasn't the gankers. It wasn't even 100% Jimblidge's. It was CCP"s, in not at least expectation-levelling with a new player that they CAN lose ships, get scammed, etc -- in CLEAR terms. The real simple answer to all this isnt nerfs, its outlined here. After that, anything goes, and so should it. CCP could put further warnings in the tutorial, even though this (section 5) is already pretty much clear. The fact is, silly and/or reckless players will lose stuff in hilarious ways no matter what. Regarding your personal issue, if you gank or scam somebody and then feel sorry about it just give them their stuff back. The challenge is a FAQ is not clear and accepted disclosure IMHO. I have no problem with the gank, scam et al -- what I do think is fair is a more clear risk acceptance every new player clicks "OK" to. i.e. Here are some nasty things that might happen to you, here are the '3 laws of capsuleers', do you accept them?
From a user interface, design and contract perspective -- I find peoples attention and focus only really comes into play when you ask them to sign or click "ACCEPT" on something...
After they do click that accept button however, its all good, and gankers should keep their lootz of course. Lets put it this way, I would rather a full-disclosure and acceptance tutorial for new players, than more f#ucking hisec nerfs to game mechanics...
F Would you like to know more? |
Dahox Lacefe
The Fruit Stand
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 16:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
I take issue with the idea that it is CCPs responsibility to inform every new player of every potential danger they face. Can you imagine how terribly unpopular the game would be if new players were told "welcome to our massive, collaborative universe. It is important to find other people to play with to enjoy this game to the fullest. However, literally everyone everywhere is out to kill you, or scam you, and there is nothing we will do to punish them/stop them/reimburse you. Have fun!"
I prefer a game experience that unfolds more naturally. I learned more getting scammed and ganked as a noob than any tutorial from CCP ever taught me. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4093
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 16:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP, please direct some advertising money to fine publications such as Robb Report. I think the community would enjoy picturing more power brokers buying officer mods while flying in their private jets and losing them before they land. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2973
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 18:11:00 -
[70] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Maybe Jim is just misunderstood and needs the warm loving embrace of a space girlfriend. I have some great matches in mind. They are a bit high maintenance but well worth it Jim!
You know, that'd be a "third party service" to match Chribba's, if you could pull it off. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Sanies Moliko
The Red Shirts
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 18:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
All I can say about this is see the sig below..... EVE, You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
496
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 18:57:00 -
[72] - Quote
I really wish Oiras would comment on this thread. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
596
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:01:00 -
[73] - Quote
Dahox Lacefe wrote:I take issue with the idea that it is CCPs responsibility to inform every new player of every potential danger they face. Can you imagine how terribly unpopular the game would be if new players were told "welcome to our massive, collaborative universe. It is important to find other people to play with to enjoy this game to the fullest. However, literally everyone everywhere is out to kill you, or scam you, and there is nothing we will do to punish them/stop them/reimburse you. Have fun!"
I prefer a game experience that unfolds more naturally. I learned more getting scammed and ganked as a noob than any tutorial from CCP ever taught me. I agree, conceptually...
However in reality we have seen CCP's response to such events like Jimblidge's derp as a long string of hisec mechanic nerfs. All I am ultimately saying is that given a choice between the two, more up front education from CCP ala tutorial, vs. moar hisec nerfs, I want a clear HTFU tutorial.
F Would you like to know more? |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1202
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
The main thing the "Sue 'em/chargeback" crowd seems to forget is, CCP isn't directly selling ISK anywhere.
There are two exchanges going on. The first exchange is person to CCP, which is an exchange of RL currency for one or more in-game items that can be redeemed for game time, ARUM tokens, or multiple character training.
The second exchange is when person A sells those game items to person B for in-game currency.
CCP's liability and interest pretty much ends when they deliver the plex to account. At that point, CCP has completed it's obligation. What you do after that is entirely up to you. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
496
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:17:00 -
[75] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Dahox Lacefe wrote:I take issue with the idea that it is CCPs responsibility to inform every new player of every potential danger they face. Can you imagine how terribly unpopular the game would be if new players were told "welcome to our massive, collaborative universe. It is important to find other people to play with to enjoy this game to the fullest. However, literally everyone everywhere is out to kill you, or scam you, and there is nothing we will do to punish them/stop them/reimburse you. Have fun!"
I prefer a game experience that unfolds more naturally. I learned more getting scammed and ganked as a noob than any tutorial from CCP ever taught me. I agree, conceptually... However in reality we have seen CCP's response to such events like Jimblidge's derp as a long string of hisec mechanic nerfs. All I am ultimately saying is that given a choice between the two, more up front education from CCP ala tutorial, vs. moar hisec nerfs, I want a clear HTFU tutorial. F
I agree that a more in-depth look at mechanics should be tutorialized. A brand new player is very much over his or her head, with almost zero explanation of actual game mechanics, completely reliant on the community for explanation. I am a bit torn on this, as I was able to figure it out myself, and social Darwinism may indeed apply here... but... I also think its important to welcome new blood into the game we all love. An example of how I was personally subject to this in my infant stages of the game:
Locator agents. Nowhere is this explained in any official fashion. When I was a carebear, wardecced by BU and its allies, I was under the impression that they were able to find me using the "Agent Locator".... I know, stupid, but again its not explained. Things like this need to be clear, simply in the interest of new player knowledge. So, should new players have trial by fire, only learning how the game is played on the off chance that a vet wants to actually help them? Or should they be subjected to a tutorialized handholding? Im tempted to agree with my friend from house Harkonnen that I would rather see the beginning easymode than any more game wide nerfs. Just my opinion. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3605
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
I would like to see CCP develop a Character creation opening video, that get's played upon every new install:
Quote:EvE is a very complex sandbox universe, with many professions you can pursue: GÖª Start your empire mining raw materials from the asteroid belts and anomalies throughout the universe. GÖª Become the Manufacturing Industrialist, responsible for producing the ships and modules everyone flies. GÖª Become an expert in Trading, cornering entire ingame markets as a powerful business tycoon. GÖª Simply explore the universe, visiting the 1000's of systems, perhaps destroying NPC Pirates and looting their complexes. GÖª Or walk down a darker path as a pirate, looting or ransoming other players ships, perhaps attacking their industrial bases. GÖª Or build your own empire in Nullsec, teaming up with other players to bring huge portions of the universe under your domain. Ultimately, you choose your own path.
However, be aware, as these paths and professions are ripe with obstacles: Losing your assets means they are gone, forever, and you must then rebuild. Other players will attempt to take or destroy that which you achieve: GÖª Even in highsec, you are vulnerable to illegal attacks while flying in space. GÖª There are legal forms of attack too, from wardecs and duels, or if you commit a suspect or criminal action. GÖª There are scammers, that attempt to trick you out of isk and assets with false promises or too-good-to-be-true "deals". GÖª There are Spies and AWOXers that may infiltrate your trust and commit terrible acts of sabotage and theft. And if these miscreants succeed, they may profit from it at your expense. It is up to you to protect yourself, and trust is a dangerous commodity.
So, where do you wish to start? |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2128
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short, the failing here wasn't the gankers. It wasn't even 100% Jimblidge's. It was CCP"s, in not at least expectation-levelling with a new player that they CAN lose ships, get scammed, etc -- in CLEAR terms. The real simple answer to all this isnt nerfs, its outlined here. After that, anything goes, and so should it.
Why do you think a CCP warning would have helped him? This is the guy that handed over a $1500 or whatever spaceship to a complete stranger after 10 minutes of conversation. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
596
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:36:00 -
[78] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short, the failing here wasn't the gankers. It wasn't even 100% Jimblidge's. It was CCP"s, in not at least expectation-levelling with a new player that they CAN lose ships, get scammed, etc -- in CLEAR terms. The real simple answer to all this isnt nerfs, its outlined here. After that, anything goes, and so should it. Why do you think a CCP warning would have helped him? This is the guy that handed over a $1500 or whatever spaceship to a complete stranger after 10 minutes of conversation. Perhaps not this guy, perhaps not in that case...
But, might that up front knowledge about ganking in hisec have given him pause to put $1500 into his Navy Raven, perhaps. Might that up front disclaimer 'people will try to scam you...trust no one' have prevented the trade-window scam, perhaps.
Or perhaps not...
But...surely nerfs should be put at the 'front end' in the form of tutorial clarity, rather than on the 'back end' as actual in-game mechanic safety nets. The problem is see is that CCP is doing it on the back-end these days, with hisec mechanic nerfs. That heresy against HTFU must stop. If you need to protect tards like Jimblidge, do it through tutorial education and then call it a day...stop the nerfs.
F Would you like to know more? |
Lina Drasselbaff
Viziam Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:58:00 -
[79] - Quote
The thing is, CCP do tell you of the dangers.
On the getting started page, http://www.eveonline.com/start Number 4: Getting started. "New Player Guide" link. Page 15 / Section 5. "5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED?" Page 22 / Section 7. "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?"
And then answers saying no, people can take your stuff from you without your consent.
It's on the username signup page, it's not like it's hidden 35 menus deep.
I appreciate it's a lot to read, but as with any MMO, you have to take responsibility for doing your own research, especially before dumping thosands of REAL MONEY into it. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
596
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:06:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lina Drasselbaff wrote:The thing is, CCP do tell you of the dangers. On the getting started page, http://www.eveonline.com/startNumber 4: Getting started. "New Player Guide" link. Page 15 / Section 5. "5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED?" Page 22 / Section 7. "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?" And then answers saying no, people can take your stuff from you without your consent. It's on the username signup page, it's not like it's hidden 35 menus deep. I appreciate it's a lot to read, but as with any MMO, you have to take responsibility for doing your own research, especially before dumping thosands of REAL MONEY into it. Sure, but is something buried 15 and 22 pages deep ultimately effective?
Nope, thus my quest to make Aura new player tutorial #1 "thou shalt die, even in hisec" with an "OK/ACCEPT" button, instead of CCP doing these nerfs on the back-end to hisec whenever a carebear splodes and files a petition...
A new player might clue in to a clear bleak tutorial warning with an accept button, but not so much dive through a 'guide'. IMHO.
Its clear Jimblidge didn't read the user guide, but what would he perhaps have done differently if he were told clearly "you can die in hisec without your consent to fight"? He said as much in his interview on the mittani. No gauruntee he would have gotten a clue at that point, but again better than back-end nerfs to game mechanics.
F Would you like to know more? |
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Lina Drasselbaff
Viziam Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Sure, but is something buried 15 and 22 pages deep ultimately effective?
Nope, thus my quest to make Aura new player tutorial #1 "thou shalt die, even in hisec" with an "OK/ACCEPT" button, instead of CCP doing these nerfs on the back-end to hisec whenever a carebear splodes and files a petition...
A new player might clue in to a clear bleak tutorial warning with an accept button, but not so much dive through a 'guide'. IMHO. While I see your point, I disagree. CCP shouldn't completely hold your hand through everything. They provide the resources, it's up to you whether you choose to read up or not. Besides, the client is going to take a while to install, you have time to read.
I think the tutorial has a few problems, but it shouldn't be a replacement to laziness.
Edit: Oh and about the constant highsec nerfs, yeah they're a right PITA. This pandering to stupidity / laziness / AFKness is frustrating. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:I really wish Oiras would comment on this thread. @ Leto : ty, ty very much. Gotta love those billionaire investing money in EVE. Very well done.
On another note, Attack Battleship (without ingame acronym jargon to avoid confusing the Original Poster) are not Black Ops Battleship. You have at least one more chance to get targetted, killed, destroyed, looted, abused, hunted, etc than in a covert version. For one thing, even if you got killed, it would have been more discreet.
Secondly, you would probably have 'Not' got killed.
It almost saved me 50% of my costs reading this.
[oh, and I click to Receive notification for this topic as checked marked for the current function setting.] |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:... People lose money gambling all the time.
Sounds like ... likes to gamble with internet spaceships instead of in a casino.
Net result was about the same....... At least when you invest in Exotic Dancers you get the chance to free complimentary drinks... And get the same results, +/- 1300. |
Johan Lightstrider
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 22:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
Oiras Isimazu wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:... People lose money gambling all the time.
Sounds like ... likes to gamble with internet spaceships instead of in a casino.
Net result was about the same....... At least when you invest in Exotic Dancers you get the chance to free complimentary drinks... And get the same results, +/- 1300.
Any whores or ***** visitors here care to indicate how many blowjobs one could get for 2600 dollars? |
LaughingSoHard
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 03:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
This thread got boring fast |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4118
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 06:03:00 -
[86] - Quote
Jim should post here. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
161
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 11:46:00 -
[87] - Quote
Johan Lightstrider wrote:dear diary,
There was a loot piniata raven that thought he was playing wow and "fitted his purple gear".
He proceeded to lose it to a suicide gank.
Later he got scammed for a second raven after he bought plex worth 1300 dollars again.
1. Wow that someone would invest 2600 dollars in an internet spaceship game where "dead is dead" 2. Well done to the gankers 3. Does the disclaimer/game warn about the perma death situation in eve. 4. Is there a disclaimer that informs new players that eve is about as trustworth as a somali pirate hooker. 5. Are there really people that would trust a stranger with 1300 dollars in ingame goods?
Has eve changed how we see the world and look at things? Yesterday I loled at the raven fit and the kill mail. Today I read the artikel and was surprised by the naivitee of the individual and the lack of knowledge of critical game mechanics. A few hours later i felt bad for the guy. My ingame character couldn;t care less ans is jealous of the scum and villany denizens that pulled of the gank and the scam. But my rl self is troubled by this thing.
We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought. Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?
Let the derp derp trolling begin :)
He claims to be a lawyer... So dont worry, its meerely a day of work for him. Compare that the people who farm for days, weeks or even months for titans, suupercarriers etc. They lose way more work.
With that said I highly doubt a person with so little ability to see what people are up to would make a good lawyer... Sounds more like a person who doesnt get out much. Anyway, he is a lawyer and his friends will find and punish all involved in real...
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Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
488
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 13:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
I wonder why a similar thread in General Discussion got locked down, the moderator stating that threads holding a player up to derision is against the rules and will be locked down.
I wonder why so many people feel that trashing this guy in personal terms is just dandy but his rage-threat to get back at his gankers is not. Who cares whether you think this guy would be a good lawyer or not? You're just expelling gas anyway, what do you actually know about him? You want to judge him in terms of how his behavior in the game reflects on his actual real life self. But I thought there was no connection to be made that way? Gankers are actually decent joes in the world beyond Eve, isn't that what we're supposed to believe?
I wonder why so many people think this is any of their business; beginning with the article that focused attention on this incident and turned this guy's bad day into a public spectacle outside the game.
Otherwise this is the same old tired evil-is-the-new-good crap one expects from forum experts.
Great advertisement for the game here. You really think this kind of incident attracts floods of people to Eve? If that were really the case, this game would be a lot bigger than it is.
WoW gained 200,000 new players at the end of 2013, reportedly in a month, if what I read is correct. That's half this player base in a month. This game is indeed a niche game, and it's a nasty little niche.
I played The Elder Scrolls Online over the weekend and have been studying those forums to learn about the game and the people who might play it. So far, compared to the Eve forums, TESO players are model citizens, and their moderators lock down threads and hand out bans for the kinds of personal insults that are traded here.
I accepted Eve for what it is a while back, and I wouldn't suggest this game should become like TESO or WoW. But that's the game. When somebody's mistake gets reported on a news site, and when a significant portion of the player base starts to pile onto the fellow and administer vigilante punishment, there's something really nasty at work. That goes beyond the game.
The fact that he has an avatar means that trashing him and bullying him does not reach the person? That doesn't even make sense. And yet the same people are performing outrage that he made a rage-threat in the game?
If I were somebody looking to join a game and I read about this, I'd surely give this one a pass.
Now, back to avoiding the forums again. Every time I look at the behavior here, I have an incredibly strong urge to leave this game for good. Knowing there's a new game coming where I wouldn't have to think about ganking or take part in non-consensual pvp is pretty attractive after four and half years of association with players like the posters here. |
StonerPhReaK
Ashfell Celestial Equilibrium POD-SQUAD
132
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 14:31:00 -
[89] - Quote
Even at rough estimates 30$ per 2 plex makes it only $600 to get 40bill, and if he lost another 40 bill to a scam that would only put the total at $1200. Where is the other $1300 comming from? Signature Removal in Progress, Estimated time of completion? Neva |
Johan Lightstrider
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 14:34:00 -
[90] - Quote
double post |
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