Stuff.

There was no RL money involved with either player interaction, guy wanted a shortcut so he bought a load of tokens then lost those tokens by not understanding the game at all. No different that pumping a bunch of money into an arcade machine (if people still remember those) and wiping on the first screen because you suck.

I'm not about to pity some dude who has a couple of grand to drop thoughtlessly on a game without doing a single bit of research but I do thank him for paying my subscription.

......... I can't use Google, I'm banned.

you were the recruiter? can i has your autographs?

A fool and his money, etc.

Also, what artikel are you talking about? I can't use Google, I'm banned.

dear diary,

There was a loot piniata raven that thought he was playing wow and "fitted his purple gear".
...

Well, this is the 100th alod I've seen. I'd like to see him come out a big winner after all this.

I feel a bonus room is coming on erotica :)

I feel a bonus room is coming on erotica :)

The failing here isn't just Raven-WoW-reject's alone....its a tutorial or new user intro that doesn't clearly demonstrate to every new EvE player that they can (and will)...

be ganked
be pirate-blapped when stepping into losec
be trade scammed
be tricked into entering a limited engagement with a pwnboat
be awoxed
be recruitment scammed
etc...

All of which can happen non-consensually, if they dont learn to protect themselves

They should be told this up front, in clear terms.

Hmm...blog post in there somewhere....

We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought.
Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?

There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.

We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought.
Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?

Well its a good think that ISK isn't money then.

I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer.

I think this settles the question on whether or not PLEX makes EVE PTW. Clearly, that $3000 didn't let him win.

Finally it's ISK but it's a difference if the source was time for the gameplay or just money. You simply can't fly a 60 bil ship as a beginner if you have to make ISK ingame. You will learn EVE by the normal way with some hard lessons and that a 60 bil ship is totally senseless to fly for missions in hi-sec. At the end you might learn that joining a null-sec corp will open you some fast ways to make billions in a few days or weeks in a simple t2 fitted Ishtar. It doesn't matter here that it's insane to invest $2600 in a spaceship game. Fact is that CCP doesn't warn these people that they will risk their money doing it this way and inform them about the usual mechanics like getting ganked or scammed. I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer.

Question is if Eve is a pay to lose game or not.

Because all the stories I hear about someone buying a bunch of ISK through plexes end with it going badly for the buyer.

Yes they do. Full legal disclosure is present in the EULA. Not their fault if you accept it without reading.

Really? Can't find it. Can you please show us where this is exactly mentioned? Accepting the EULA is one thing. But it doesn't mean that CCP's EULA doesn't breach the laws of my country.

Really? Can't find it. Can you please show us where this is exactly mentioned? Accepting the EULA is one thing. But it doesn't mean that CCP's EULA doesn't breach the laws of my country.

Really? Can't find it. Can you please show us where this is exactly mentioned? Accepting the EULA is one thing. But it doesn't mean that CCP's EULA doesn't breach the laws of my country.

There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.

There are many people who have not lost these ships yet, just flying around afk and such. It's sickening, I know. That's why we need your help in making highsec a better place.

For anybody who is insane enough to spend that kind of RL cash on a game ought to be shot.

I have spoken to this dude in game and does seem like a nice guy, I know he got scammed and blown up but that should be the end really> But for him its not as he is now getting hassle from others saying if he undocks they will hunt him down, lots of insalt's surely there should be a line between what is legal in eve and cyber bullying as i would class the hassle he is getting now as cyber bullying.
CCP needs to draw a line some were and i hope they will stop all the added agro he is getting.

the threats was made from rage surely you would rage if this happend to you and maybe say things we cant take back. Did the mittani do the same at fan fest, should he be chased out of the game for what he said?

I have spoken to this dude in game and does seem like a nice guy, I know he got scammed and blown up but that should be the end really> But for him its not as he is now getting hassle from others saying if he undocks they will hunt him down, lots of insalt's surely there should be a line between what is legal in eve and cyber bullying as i would class the hassle he is getting now as cyber bullying.
CCP needs to draw a line some were and i hope they will stop all the added agro he is getting.

So if CCP did the same here and put a 30day ban on him, and then he cam back to play would you still want him chased out of eve then

Yep. Because of the 2, he is the worse offender.

Mittens said "kill himself" instead of "quit the game" because he was drunk. If he had said "quit the game", he'd have been completely in the clear. He also publicly apologized, and emptied his wallet (which was pretty goddamn big since he's the King of Space) to the guy.

This new guy was sober, and expressed his intent to hunt someone down in real life, with no remorse or remittance. That is unacceptable.

well his wallet has been emptied all ready so all he needs if the CCP ban and make a public apolagy while showing some form of remorce and regret for what he said then things would be sorted right?

As that's the vibe am getting from your statement

In my country the government limited the amount of lottery tickets a person could buy to 250 euros a day. To protect idiots from themselfs.

I have spoken to this dude in game and does seem like a nice guy, I know he got scammed and blown up but that should be the end really> But for him its not as he is now getting hassle from others saying if he undocks they will hunt him down, lots of insalt's surely there should be a line between what is legal in eve and cyber bullying as i would class the hassle he is getting now as cyber bullying.
CCP needs to draw a line some were and i hope they will stop all the added agro he is getting.

I have spoken to this dude in game and does seem like a nice guy, I know he got scammed and blown up but that should be the end really> But for him its not as he is now getting hassle from others saying if he undocks they will hunt him down, lots of insalt's surely there should be a line between what is legal in eve and cyber bullying as i would class the hassle he is getting now as cyber bullying.
CCP needs to draw a line some were and i hope they will stop all the added agro he is getting.

in fact this is not my reasons at all, when i was new i got scammed a few times, but not to this scale so i generly feel sorry for the guy and if he does stay in eve i would be willing to give up some of my game time to help teach him about the way eve works and
help him train up right so he does not make the same mistake again.

Maybe Jim is just misunderstood and needs the warm loving embrace of a space girlfriend. I have some great matches in mind. They are a bit high maintenance but well worth it Jim!

Also note it was the guy's own decision to spend the first 1,500$ on a purple spaceship.

More importantly, he decided to throw away another 1,500$ right after he got absolute proof that shiny RNIs can get blown up very easily in highsec. No disclaimer would've stopped him.

You may disapprove of scams, but I'm sure we all agree that he would've lost that second RNI anyway.

In short, the failing here wasn't the gankers. It wasn't even 100% Jimblidge's. It was CCP"s, in not at least expectation-levelling with a new player that they CAN lose ships, get scammed, etc -- in CLEAR terms.

The real simple answer to all this isnt nerfs, its outlined here. After that, anything goes, and so should it.

CCP could put further warnings in the tutorial, even though this (section 5) is already pretty much clear.

The fact is, silly and/or reckless players will lose stuff in hilarious ways no matter what.

Regarding your personal issue, if you gank or scam somebody and then feel sorry about it just give them their stuff back.

Maybe Jim is just misunderstood and needs the warm loving embrace of a space girlfriend. I have some great matches in mind. They are a bit high maintenance but well worth it Jim!

I take issue with the idea that it is CCPs responsibility to inform every new player of every potential danger they face. Can you imagine how terribly unpopular the game would be if new players were told "welcome to our massive, collaborative universe. It is important to find other people to play with to enjoy this game to the fullest. However, literally everyone everywhere is out to kill you, or scam you, and there is nothing we will do to punish them/stop them/reimburse you. Have fun!"

I prefer a game experience that unfolds more naturally. I learned more getting scammed and ganked as a noob than any tutorial from CCP ever taught me.

I agree, conceptually...

However in reality we have seen CCP's response to such events like Jimblidge's derp as a long string of hisec mechanic nerfs. All I am ultimately saying is that given a choice between the two, more up front education from CCP ala tutorial, vs. moar hisec nerfs, I want a clear HTFU tutorial.

F

EvE is a very complex sandbox universe, with many professions you can pursue:
GÖª Start your empire mining raw materials from the asteroid belts and anomalies throughout the universe.
GÖª Become the Manufacturing Industrialist, responsible for producing the ships and modules everyone flies.
GÖª Become an expert in Trading, cornering entire ingame markets as a powerful business tycoon.
GÖª Simply explore the universe, visiting the 1000's of systems, perhaps destroying NPC Pirates and looting their complexes.
GÖª Or walk down a darker path as a pirate, looting or ransoming other players ships, perhaps attacking their industrial bases.
GÖª Or build your own empire in Nullsec, teaming up with other players to bring huge portions of the universe under your domain.
Ultimately, you choose your own path.

However, be aware, as these paths and professions are ripe with obstacles:
Losing your assets means they are gone, forever, and you must then rebuild. Other players will attempt to take or destroy that which you achieve:
GÖª Even in highsec, you are vulnerable to illegal attacks while flying in space.
GÖª There are legal forms of attack too, from wardecs and duels, or if you commit a suspect or criminal action.
GÖª There are scammers, that attempt to trick you out of isk and assets with false promises or too-good-to-be-true "deals".
GÖª There are Spies and AWOXers that may infiltrate your trust and commit terrible acts of sabotage and theft.
And if these miscreants succeed, they may profit from it at your expense. It is up to you to protect yourself, and trust is a dangerous commodity.

In short, the failing here wasn't the gankers. It wasn't even 100% Jimblidge's. It was CCP"s, in not at least expectation-levelling with a new player that they CAN lose ships, get scammed, etc -- in CLEAR terms.

The real simple answer to all this isnt nerfs, its outlined here. After that, anything goes, and so should it.

Why do you think a CCP warning would have helped him? This is the guy that handed over a $1500 or whatever spaceship to a complete stranger after 10 minutes of conversation.

The thing is, CCP do tell you of the dangers.

On the getting started page, http://www.eveonline.com/start
Number 4: Getting started.
"New Player Guide" link.
Page 15 / Section 5. "5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED?"
Page 22 / Section 7. "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?"

And then answers saying no, people can take your stuff from you without your consent.

It's on the username signup page, it's not like it's hidden 35 menus deep.

I appreciate it's a lot to read, but as with any MMO, you have to take responsibility for doing your own research, especially before dumping thosands of REAL MONEY into it.

Sure, but is something buried 15 and 22 pages deep ultimately effective?

Nope, thus my quest to make Aura new player tutorial #1 "thou shalt die, even in hisec" with an "OK/ACCEPT" button, instead of CCP doing these nerfs on the back-end to hisec whenever a carebear splodes and files a petition...

A new player might clue in to a clear bleak tutorial warning with an accept button, but not so much dive through a 'guide'. IMHO.

I really wish Oiras would comment on this thread.

...
People lose money gambling all the time.

Sounds like ... likes to gamble with internet spaceships instead of in a casino.

Net result was about the same.......

At least when you invest in Exotic Dancers you get the chance to free complimentary drinks...
And get the same results, +/- 1300.

dear diary,

There was a loot piniata raven that thought he was playing wow and "fitted his purple gear".

He proceeded to lose it to a suicide gank.

Later he got scammed for a second raven after he bought plex worth 1300 dollars again.

1. Wow that someone would invest 2600 dollars in an internet spaceship game where "dead is dead"
2. Well done to the gankers
3. Does the disclaimer/game warn about the perma death situation in eve.
4. Is there a disclaimer that informs new players that eve is about as trustworth as a somali pirate hooker.
5. Are there really people that would trust a stranger with 1300 dollars in ingame goods?

Has eve changed how we see the world and look at things?
Yesterday I loled at the raven fit and the kill mail.
Today I read the artikel and was surprised by the naivitee of the individual and the lack of knowledge of critical game mechanics.
A few hours later i felt bad for the guy. My ingame character couldn;t care less ans is jealous of the scum and villany denizens that pulled of the gank and the scam.
But my rl self is troubled by this thing.

We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought.
Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?

Let the derp derp trolling begin :)

I wonder why a similar thread in General Discussion got locked down, the moderator stating that threads holding a player up to derision is against the rules and will be locked down.

Now, back to avoiding the forums again. Every time I look at the behavior here, I have an incredibly strong urge to leave this game for good. Knowing there's a new game coming where I wouldn't have to think about ganking or take part in non-consensual pvp is pretty attractive after four and half years of association with players like the posters here.

While I see your point, I disagree. CCP shouldn't completely hold your hand through everything. They provide the resources, it's up to you whether you choose to read up or not. Besides, the client is going to take a while to install, you have time to read.

I think the tutorial has a few problems, but it shouldn't be a replacement to laziness.

Edit: Oh and about the constant highsec nerfs, yeah they're a right PITA. This pandering to stupidity / laziness / AFKness is frustrating.

I wonder why a similar thread in General Discussion got locked down, the moderator stating that threads holding a player up to derision is against the rules and will be locked down.

I wonder why so many people feel that trashing this guy in personal terms is just dandy but his rage-threat to get back at his gankers is not. Who cares whether you think this guy would be a good lawyer or not? You're just expelling gas anyway, what do you actually know about him? You want to judge him in terms of how his behavior in the game reflects on his actual real life self. But I thought there was no connection to be made that way? Gankers are actually decent joes in the world beyond Eve, isn't that what we're supposed to believe?

I wonder why so many people think this is any of their business; beginning with the article that focused attention on this incident and turned this guy's bad day into a public spectacle outside the game.

Otherwise this is the same old tired evil-is-the-new-good crap one expects from forum experts.

Great advertisement for the game here. You really think this kind of incident attracts floods of people to Eve? If that were really the case, this game would be a lot bigger than it is.

WoW gained 200,000 new players at the end of 2013, reportedly in a month, if what I read is correct. That's half this player base in a month. This game is indeed a niche game, and it's a nasty little niche.

I played The Elder Scrolls Online over the weekend and have been studying those forums to learn about the game and the people who might play it. So far, compared to the Eve forums, TESO players are model citizens, and their moderators lock down threads and hand out bans for the kinds of personal insults that are traded here.

I accepted Eve for what it is a while back, and I wouldn't suggest this game should become like TESO or WoW. But that's the game. When somebody's mistake gets reported on a news site, and when a significant portion of the player base starts to pile onto the fellow and administer vigilante punishment, there's something really nasty at work. That goes beyond the game.

The fact that he has an avatar means that trashing him and bullying him does not reach the person? That doesn't even make sense. And yet the same people are performing outrage that he made a rage-threat in the game?

If I were somebody looking to join a game and I read about this, I'd surely give this one a pass.

Now, back to avoiding the forums again. Every time I look at the behavior here, I have an incredibly strong urge to leave this game for good. Knowing there's a new game coming where I wouldn't have to think about ganking or take part in non-consensual pvp is pretty attractive after four and half years of association with players like the posters here.

Even at rough estimates 30$ per 2 plex makes it only $600 to get 40bill, and if he lost another 40 bill to a scam that would only put the total at $1200. Where is the other $1300 comming from?

I have spoken to this dude in game and does seem like a nice guy, I know he got scammed and blown up but that should be the end really> But for him its not as he is now getting hassle from others saying if he undocks they will hunt him down, lots of insalt's surely there should be a line between what is legal in eve and cyber bullying as i would class the hassle he is getting now as cyber bullying.
CCP needs to draw a line some were and i hope they will stop all the added agro he is getting.

Came in thread hoping for a quality Oiras post similar to snorting broken glass, left satisfied.

Finally it's ISK but it's a difference if the source was time for the gameplay or just money. You simply can't fly a 60 bil ship as a beginner if you have to make ISK ingame. You will learn EVE by the normal way with some hard lessons and that a 60 bil ship is totally senseless to fly for missions in hi-sec. At the end you might learn that joining a null-sec corp will open you some fast ways to make billions in a few days or weeks in a simple t2 fitted Ishtar. It doesn't matter here that it's insane to invest $2600 in a spaceship game. Fact is that CCP doesn't warn these people that they will risk their money doing it this way and inform them about the usual mechanics like getting ganked or scammed. I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer.

I predict the record will be shattered when Jim comes back, perhaps with a new character. He'll read about multiboxing and decide that if he had 2 ships just like what he lost, he will be unstoppable.

I predict the record will be shattered when Jim comes back, perhaps with a new character. He'll read about multiboxing and decide that if he had 2 ships just like what he lost, he will be unstoppable.

The failing here isn't just Raven-WoW-reject's alone....its a tutorial or new user intro that doesn't clearly demonstrate to every new EvE player that they can (and will)...

be ganked
be pirate-blapped when stepping into losec
be trade scammed
be tricked into entering a limited engagement with a pwnboat
be awoxed
be recruitment scammed
etc...

All of which can happen non-consensually, if they dont learn to protect themselves

They should be told this up front, in clear terms.

Hmm...blog post in there somewhere....

T2s are better than purple for that reason.

I don't use T2 for that same reason.

(Except when the cost efficiency is better than the loot /enemy value ratio, which is most of the time.
T2s are mostly more expensive anyways, and will not provide a way to destroy the enemy before being ganked.

They can be good versus NPC if there is enough security from groups, which I don't get.)



Most of the time while grouping, I get backstabbed (which means treason), or left for enemies to get killmail.
It seems more organized to get me killed than other.

So, T2 are pretty useless to me unless I want to further fill pirates pocket without benefit.

(Most fleetmates are more friendly towards the enemy or pirates than towards me.)

On a regular account (+/- $1,300 x2) + a 24 hour Biomass schedule (+/- time)

that is equal to 2 other potential pod pilot character.
That is also equal to a 3rd new pod pilot character for a new total of 4 (minus the first biomass).

Btw, an Attack Battleship had to come from the Character Bazaar unless .?.

I don't think he trained it, although it'd take less than 1 month to do that.

He most likely trained to BS and trying to test Dreads Titan super caps.
Just get ready for tech support.!!

Am sad that he biomassed. I wonder if he is still walking amongst us.

Out of curiousity how do you know if a character is biomassed? I'm relatively new to the game.

New players need to have a giant window come up after accepting the EULA which reads...

TRUST NO ONE WITHIN MORE THAN YOU WOULD A STRANGER NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM

New players need to have a giant window come up after accepting the EULA which reads...

TRUST NO ONE WITHIN MORE THAN YOU WOULD A STRANGER NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM

Heh no they dont. That'd kill the fun. Reading up on the rules of the game in regards to permissible activities is right up there with reading bonuses for ship fittings. In this game you have to R E A D!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANGRY MUSTACHE (or yellow starched mustard color avatar...)
... Extremely proficient at losing ratting Tengus.

dear diary,

There was a loot piniata raven that thought he was playing wow and "fitted his purple gear".

He proceeded to lose it to a suicide gank.

Later he got scammed for a second raven after he bought plex worth 1300 dollars again.

1. Wow that someone would invest 2600 dollars in an internet spaceship game where "dead is dead"
2. Well done to the gankers
3. Does the disclaimer/game warn about the perma death situation in eve.
4. Is there a disclaimer that informs new players that eve is about as trustworth as a somali pirate hooker.
5. Are there really people that would trust a stranger with 1300 dollars in ingame goods?

Has eve changed how we see the world and look at things?
Yesterday I loled at the raven fit and the kill mail.
Today I read the artikel and was surprised by the naivitee of the individual and the lack of knowledge of critical game mechanics.
A few hours later i felt bad for the guy. My ingame character couldn;t care less ans is jealous of the scum and villany denizens that pulled of the gank and the scam.
But my rl self is troubled by this thing.

We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought.
Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?

Let the derp derp trolling begin :)

Question is if Eve is a pay to lose game or not.

Because all the stories I hear about someone buying a bunch of ISK through plexes end with it going badly for the buyer.

I like this lol. Eve is TOTALLY a Pay-to-Lose game.

God bless those sadistic bastards at CCP.

dear diary,

There was a loot piniata raven that thought he was playing wow and "fitted his purple gear".

He proceeded to lose it to a suicide gank.

Later he got scammed for a second raven after he bought plex worth 1300 dollars again.

1. Wow that someone would invest 2600 dollars in an internet spaceship game where "dead is dead"
2. Well done to the gankers
3. Does the disclaimer/game warn about the perma death situation in eve.
4. Is there a disclaimer that informs new players that eve is about as trustworth as a somali pirate hooker.
5. Are there really people that would trust a stranger with 1300 dollars in ingame goods?

Has eve changed how we see the world and look at things?
Yesterday I loled at the raven fit and the kill mail.
Today I read the artikel and was surprised by the naivitee of the individual and the lack of knowledge of critical game mechanics.
A few hours later i felt bad for the guy. My ingame character couldn;t care less ans is jealous of the scum and villany denizens that pulled of the gank and the scam.
But my rl self is troubled by this thing.

We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought.
Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?

Let the derp derp trolling begin :)

New players need to have a giant window come up after accepting the EULA which reads...

TRUST NO ONE WITHIN MORE THAN YOU WOULD A STRANGER NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM

Well it certainly is bad for business for CCP.

That guy probably ****** off and probably wont spend another penny on EVE; whereas he could have spent a fortune over the months/ years to follow.

Well done for losing CCP some business guys.

dear diary,

There was a loot piniata raven that thought he was playing wow and "fitted his purple gear".

He proceeded to lose it to a suicide gank.

Later he got scammed for a second raven after he bought plex worth 1300 dollars again.

1. Wow that someone would invest 2600 dollars in an internet spaceship game where "dead is dead"
2. Well done to the gankers
3. Does the disclaimer/game warn about the perma death situation in eve.
4. Is there a disclaimer that informs new players that eve is about as trustworth as a somali pirate hooker.
5. Are there really people that would trust a stranger with 1300 dollars in ingame goods?

Has eve changed how we see the world and look at things?
Yesterday I loled at the raven fit and the kill mail.
Today I read the artikel and was surprised by the naivitee of the individual and the lack of knowledge of critical game mechanics.
A few hours later i felt bad for the guy. My ingame character couldn;t care less ans is jealous of the scum and villany denizens that pulled of the gank and the scam.
But my rl self is troubled by this thing.

We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought.
Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?

Let the derp derp trolling begin :)

You can trust a RL stranger with more you can in EVE..

The real world has rules and regulations, enforced by a police force and the public themselves. You have an identity and the cost of moving/ hiding this identity is high, resulting in a lower level of crime; except by hardened criminals.

If you asked a stranger to take a photo with your camera they probably would.

If you asked a stranger to take a photo with your camera in EVE, they probably would warp straight off with it in their cargo hold.

i feel kinda bad for the guy, he lost a lot of cash, i seriously hope it was money he could afford to lose.

i love when people get ganked and scammed, to the point where they quit the game, because everyone playing this ****** game is a bunch of A-holes... but that is why not everyone is playing eve.

still at the end of the day i hope that people only lose their space pixels, and not the next months rent...

you're still here, doesn't that mean you're an A-hole too?

you're still here, doesn't that mean you're an A-hole too?

Well it certainly is bad for business for CCP.

That guy probably ****** off and probably wont spend another penny on EVE; whereas he could have spent a fortune over the months/ years to follow.

Well done for losing CCP some business guys.

the threats was made from rage surely you would rage if this happend to you and maybe say things we cant take back. Did the mittani do the same at fan fest, should he be chased out of the game for what he said?