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Precison missile - last nail in the coffin of fleet battle creativity?

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cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 20:45:00 - [31] You are only nerfing stealth bombers by removing cruise precision missiles. ___________________________________________________
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2006.04.22 20:47:00 - [32] Originally by: Tobin Ba'ha Originally by: Trevize dk This has been discussed over and over again. Fact of the matter is: If a BS fire a missile at you - it will surely hit you, and hopefully kill you. This goes for BS in eve and for ships IRL. Really? A battleship in real life hits a torpedo boat with every shot? That's news to me. And by the way, real life comparisons for balance issues in MMOs are just plain idiocy. The OP has a point in that this game shouldn't devolve into one strategy, the way it has. Actually, yes they do, what with radar guided guns and seeker missiles, you just aren't going to evade when a BB is gunning for you. It's just that the torp boat also sinks the BS with nearly every shot as well. Throw in the manpower and maintaince costs, and it's just more cost effective to have a couple dozen attack planes, than it is to use a single battleship. Harry Voyager
Andreask14	Posted - 2006.04.22 20:57:00 - [33] Good gameplay is more important than any reality concern. Precision Torps should cease to exist, just because i dont like them. Defenders should be made useful again, and there should be a t2 destroyer variant providing point-defence against missiles, sporting 8 long-range defender launchers which have a flight-speed bonus only for defender missiles, and a RoF bonus. Field 2 of those in your fleets and they shoot down half of the incoming missiles. Neat. ________________________________________________ Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 21:16:00 - [34] Originally by: cytomatrix You are only nerfing stealth bombers by removing cruise precision missiles. Snort. Ohnoes, the stupid hidden sig radius not enough for you? Gank frigates more in a BOMBER, YAY! LCIceo, search. There are a lot of threads from arround the time that we were told this T2 amo was coming. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2006.04.22 21:27:00 - [35] Precision cruise are overpowered, not even open to debate.
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 21:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: cytomatrix You are only nerfing stealth bombers by removing cruise precision missiles. Snort. Ohnoes, the stupid hidden sig radius not enough for you? Gank frigates more in a BOMBER, YAY! LCIceo, search. There are a lot of threads from arround the time that we were told this T2 amo was coming. The stupid hidden bonus? How is that stupid? And you cant kill an interceptor with one volley. Which means you are gonna die before the next volley. And most of the frigates can make a sandwich and warp out before getting hit by cruise missiles. ___________________________________________________
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 21:56:00 - [37] Do I really need to expand on why a BOMBER being ANTI-FRIGATE is silly? "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 21:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Maya Rkell Do I really need to expand on why a BOMBER being ANTI-FRIGATE is silly? Go ahead. ___________________________________________________
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:07:00 - [39] agree with the op, the best fix for precision missiles is to remove them alltogether. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:10:00 - [40] Originally by: Breed Love agree with the op, the best fix for precision missiles is to remove them alltogether. Yea remove all tech II ammo, not just precisions. ___________________________________________________
Verdon Teraskun	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Jim McGregor Isnt drones just as good at taking out frigates as precision missiles are? Not at 120km they arent.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:13:00 - [42] And will people please stop posting clueless RL comparisons to prove their point which is just wrong. For starters, RL missiles have a quite low hit probability, for some air-to-air missiles its 0 (zero). Thats looking at their performance during rl conflicts etc. So if ye want to take eve closer to rl, start by making all missiles have about 30% hit probability (thats the average for the best rl air to air missiles), which would then approach 0 if the target is fast/doing lots of maneuvering, then I'll look at you. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:14:00 - [43] Originally by: cytomatrix Originally by: Breed Love agree with the op, the best fix for precision missiles is to remove them alltogether. Yea remove all tech II ammo, not just precisions. Not really, some of the tech II ammo actually makes sense^^. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:15:00 - [44] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/04/2006 22:15:57 Originally by: cytomatrix Originally by: Maya Rkell Do I really need to expand on why a BOMBER being ANTI-FRIGATE is silly? Go ahead. Because they intrude into the AF's role Because bombers IRL go for big targets (yes, gameplay > realism, but that gameplay niche is filled allready) Because the stealth is a gimmick Because they are currently pure gank ships, and gank is boring And so on. Breed Love, yes, but to rebalance it across the board for secondary effects, it's all gotta go. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:18:00 - [45] Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: cytomatrix Originally by: Breed Love agree with the op, the best fix for precision missiles is to remove them alltogether. Yea remove all tech II ammo, not just precisions. Not really, some of the tech II ammo actually makes sense^^. Trust me you really want to remove tech II missiles if you use guns. ^^ Originally by: Verdon Teraskun Not at 120km they arent. Come on you have enough time to warp out. Hell you can even make a cup of coffee before warping out. ___________________________________________________
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:20:00 - [46] Edited by: Breed Love on 22/04/2006 22:20:51 Originally by: Maya Rkell Breed Love, yes, but to rebalance it across the board for secondary effects, it's all gotta go. Yeah I mean that they shouldnt remove all t2 ammo alltogether, just change it a bit so it makes more sense, like some of it already does. I agree on "secondary effects" btw, although I've never seen you mention any of those... Is there any suggestion thread where ye mention those? ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:28:00 - [47] Yes Just a few "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/04/2006 22:15:57 Originally by: cytomatrix Originally by: Maya Rkell Do I really need to expand on why a BOMBER being ANTI-FRIGATE is silly? Go ahead. Because they intrude into the AF's role Because bombers IRL go for big targets (yes, gameplay > realism, but that gameplay niche is filled allready) Because the stealth is a gimmick Because they are currently pure gank ships, and gank is boring If they make a Stealth Bomber which is capable of killing battleships another bunch of battleship noobs are gonna whine about it. I have never seen anyone using Stealth bombers for ganking. Most of the people use Battleships for ganking. Seriously people dont use stealth bombers at all. Coz they suck. I still dont know how cruise precisions are overpowered. Missiles take a while to hit the target by that time you can either warp out or go to your kitchen and make something to eat and then warp out. I dont fly battleships and i dont use precision missiles. ___________________________________________________
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:32:00 - [49] Originally by: cytomatrix I still dont know how cruise precisions are overpowered. Missiles take a while to hit the target by that time you can either warp out or go to your kitchen and make something to eat and then warp out. I dont fly battleships and i dont use precision missiles. Thats just a clueless comment. Missiles dont take all that long to hit a target. Especially cruise. They dont take long at all. In fact they hit very quickly. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:33:00 - [50] cytomatrix, Firstly not everyone is aligned at all times, and on a ship with a velocity bonus you DON'T have long. And then there is the simple fact that an immediate warp out for every frigate within range IS the only POSSIBLE action. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:36:00 - [51] Edited by: cytomatrix on 22/04/2006 22:39:12 Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: cytomatrix I still dont know how cruise precisions are overpowered. Missiles take a while to hit the target by that time you can either warp out or go to your kitchen and make something to eat and then warp out. I dont fly battleships and i dont use precision missiles. Thats just a clueless comment. Missiles dont take all that long to hit a target. Especially cruise. They dont take long at all. In fact they hit very quickly. 24 seconds is quick? Wow you must be using jovian watch. I have seen many frigates and cruiser warp out before getting hit by cruise missiles. ___________________________________________________
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:39:00 - [52] Originally by: Maya Rkell cytomatrix, Firstly not everyone is aligned at all times, and on a ship with a velocity bonus you DON'T have long. And then there is the simple fact that an immediate warp out for every frigate within range IS the only POSSIBLE action. Maya, Precisions dont really hurt battlecruisers or battleships. If you are in a frigate or a cruiser you can align and then warp. Its 24sec ffs. ___________________________________________________
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:40:00 - [53] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/04/2006 22:41:31 24 seconds?? Um... Range a reasonable, say, 50km. Raven, BS4, 40% missile velocity. Missile projection 4, 40% missile velocity. 3750m/s base velocity. Adjusted velocity 7350m/s. That's less than 7 seconds. Even at 100km, less than 14. At skill 5/5, it's worse. 8347m/s adjusted, less than 6/12 seconds. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:42:00 - [54] Originally by: cytomatrix 24 seconds is quick? Wow you must be using jovian watch. I have seen many frigates and cruiser warp out before getting hit by cruise missiles. Mebbe you shouldnt try hitting ships on the other end of the universe? ^^ ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: cytomatrix 24 seconds is quick? Wow you must be using jovian watch. I have seen many frigates and cruiser warp out before getting hit by cruise missiles. Mebbe you shouldnt try hitting ships on the other end of the universe? ^^ I wouldnt if the Manticore was less fragile. ^^ ___________________________________________________
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:47:00 - [56] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/04/2006 22:41:31 24 seconds?? Um... Range a reasonable, say, 50km. Raven, BS4, 40% missile velocity. Missile projection 4, 40% missile velocity. 3750m/s base velocity. Adjusted velocity 7350m/s. That's less than 7 seconds. Even at 100km, less than 14. At skill 5/5, it's worse. 8347m/s adjusted, less than 6/12 seconds. Nerf the skills then. I said missiles not missiles with skills(j/k). I agree Precision + Raven is kinda overpowered. They need a nerf. ___________________________________________________
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:48:00 - [57] Originally by: cytomatrix Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: cytomatrix 24 seconds is quick? Wow you must be using jovian watch. I have seen many frigates and cruiser warp out before getting hit by cruise missiles. Mebbe you shouldnt try hitting ships on the other end of the universe? ^^ I wouldnt if the Manticore was less fragile. ^^ Yes, ditch the stealth gimmick, make them as tough as AF's and give them the new heavy rocket launcher which is comming in. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:53:00 - [58] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: cytomatrix Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: cytomatrix 24 seconds is quick? Wow you must be using jovian watch. I have seen many frigates and cruiser warp out before getting hit by cruise missiles. Mebbe you shouldnt try hitting ships on the other end of the universe? ^^ I wouldnt if the Manticore was less fragile. ^^ Yes, ditch the stealth gimmick, make them as tough as AF's and give them the new heavy rocket launcher which is comming in. Nooo leave them alone./me hugs his manticore. I still dont understand your missile secondary effects. Are they just missiles with target painters and neutralizers? ___________________________________________________
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.22 22:56:00 - [59] Some amo would be, sure. Missiles? Got some more interesting options. Like torps with a blast radius, so you can smash those pesky repair drones. And so on... "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Litus Arowar	Posted - 2006.04.23 03:18:00 - [60] Originally by: Maya Rkell Some amo would be, sure. Missiles? Got some more interesting options. Like torps with a blast radius, so you can smash those pesky repair drones. And so on... while I agree with you on most of the ideas, this one reminds me of how things used to be, and that wasn't good... unless it only hurt enemies, which is kind of an odd idea I think... but if damage was balanced properly perhaps it could work without you killing your own tacklers

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