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Epsillon
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Posted - 2006.04.23 03:37:00 -
[61]
If they made them proper bombers, I'd start training for them in a heartbeat.
Some of the fondest memories of gaming I have are the times spent flying the bombers in FreeSpace 2.
Which reminds me, I never managed to defeat the Lucifron in the original.
Time to rake out the old box set.
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TOOMY
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Posted - 2006.04.23 03:39:00 -
[62]
Edited by: TOOMY on 23/04/2006 03:39:12
 Originally by: Trevize dk
This has been discussed over and over again. Fact of the matter is: If a BS fire a missile at you - it will surely hit you, and hopefully kill you. This goes for BS in eve and for ships IRL.
Yea i think Quake 3 is soo un-realistic aswell
and let me guess ur a raven pilot?
on frig op there is only 2 things we have to watch out for
1) A smartass with a smartbombing apoc
2) raven with precision cruise
any turrent ship struggles to hit a small ship at close range and i dont see why ravens need to have this advantage end of.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.23 03:57:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Litus Arowar
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Some amo would be, sure.
Missiles? Got some more interesting options. Like torps with a blast radius, so you can smash those pesky repair drones. And so on...
while I agree with you on most of the ideas, this one reminds me of how things used to be, and that wasn't good... unless it only hurt enemies, which is kind of an odd idea I think...
but if damage was balanced properly perhaps it could work without you killing your own tacklers
That's because it was EVERY torp. As one of three or four special-case amo's...
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.04.23 09:13:00 -
[64]
Precision missiles as a BS's defence againt frigs=not that overpowered
Precision missile son a Raven used to OMFGWTFBBQ evry ship thta floats in space=Overpowered
Don't nerf precisions, nerf the Raven
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.04.23 09:54:00 -
[65]
....and people don't understand that all this precision stuff simply undo the missile changes made a few months back where TRYING to tackle a goddamn raven was suicide.
untill people come cry "OMG PRECISIONS ARE NOT OVERPOWERED", I say for you to come in a inty and try to tackle a raven filled with precisions with your mates, also in frigs.
oh and don't come "omg but if you do over 8km/s you're free!"
well... WTB full set of snake implants + gitsii mwd + 4 domination nanofibs for my claw to escape them.
...wow... now my inty gets more expensive than your raven, doesn't it?
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Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.23 10:24:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Grimpak
...wow... now my inty gets more expensive than your raven, doesn't it?
Yeah thats not right. But killing that raven with 2-3 frigates is?
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pwned |
bundy bear
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Posted - 2006.04.23 10:35:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Grimpak
...wow... now my inty gets more expensive than your raven, doesn't it?
Yeah thats not right. But killing that raven with 2-3 frigates is?
Nos and a few drones will scare the frigs off easy. Also you must have either a very crap tank or no EW. Seriously right now ravens hit everyhting which just isnt right. People tend to think that if turret BS can kill frigs then missiles should kill frigs too right? Turrets are not great against frigs! any frigate with an MWD can EASILY avoid turret fire. Just beacue NPC ceptors are too dumb to get any transversal doesnt mean ceptor pilots are.
Turrets are easily avoided in a ceptor precision cruiser are IMPOSSIBLE ( besides warping out before they hit  .
Fleet fights used to be insane fun for a ceptor pilots. Zooming arround the enemy positions trying to avoid nos, drones and webbers while keeping transversal up looking for the target on overview while rying to balance cap to the MWD and disruptor. Yep to not get killed you had to have skill but it was possible. Now days your flying to the enemy fleet your transversal up your worming your way to the primary target youve avoided all teh nos webb and drones oh wait precision raven DEAD.
Precision raven is good against everything and no other ship in eve can do this to every ship with just the 1 generic setup.
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cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.04.23 10:46:00 -
[68]
Then nerf the raven not the precisions.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.23 10:59:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/04/2006 11:00:51
Originally by: bundy bear
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Grimpak
...wow... now my inty gets more expensive than your raven, doesn't it?
Yeah thats not right. But killing that raven with 2-3 frigates is?
Nos and a few drones will scare the frigs off easy. Also you must have either a very crap tank or no EW. Seriously right now ravens hit everyhting which just isnt right. People tend to think that if turret BS can kill frigs then missiles should kill frigs too right? Turrets are not great against frigs! any frigate with an MWD can EASILY avoid turret fire. Just beacue NPC ceptors are too dumb to get any transversal doesnt mean ceptor pilots are.
Turrets are easily avoided in a ceptor precision cruiser are IMPOSSIBLE ( besides warping out before they hit .
Fleet fights used to be insane fun for a ceptor pilots. Zooming arround the enemy positions trying to avoid nos, drones and webbers while keeping transversal up looking for the target on overview while rying to balance cap to the MWD and disruptor. Yep to not get killed you had to have skill but it was possible. Now days your flying to the enemy fleet your transversal up your worming your way to the primary target youve avoided all teh nos webb and drones oh wait precision raven DEAD.
Precision raven is good against everything and no other ship in eve can do this to every ship with just the 1 generic setup.
It does sound like alot of fun to have fleet battles work that way, and ccp did intend for every ship class to be able to play a role in combat.
There are other ship setups that are quite good vs everything too, like NOS Dominix.
I havent had very much experience with drones, but it seems to me that Nos Dominix can carry drones that kill frigates _fast_ with the added damage bonus it gets. Isnt it fair that a Raven can carry missiles that do the same?
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pwned |
Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.04.23 11:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/04/2006 11:00:51
Originally by: bundy bear
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Grimpak
...wow... now my inty gets more expensive than your raven, doesn't it?
Yeah thats not right. But killing that raven with 2-3 frigates is?
Nos and a few drones will scare the frigs off easy. Also you must have either a very crap tank or no EW. Seriously right now ravens hit everyhting which just isnt right. People tend to think that if turret BS can kill frigs then missiles should kill frigs too right? Turrets are not great against frigs! any frigate with an MWD can EASILY avoid turret fire. Just beacue NPC ceptors are too dumb to get any transversal doesnt mean ceptor pilots are.
Turrets are easily avoided in a ceptor precision cruiser are IMPOSSIBLE ( besides warping out before they hit .
Fleet fights used to be insane fun for a ceptor pilots. Zooming arround the enemy positions trying to avoid nos, drones and webbers while keeping transversal up looking for the target on overview while rying to balance cap to the MWD and disruptor. Yep to not get killed you had to have skill but it was possible. Now days your flying to the enemy fleet your transversal up your worming your way to the primary target youve avoided all teh nos webb and drones oh wait precision raven DEAD.
Precision raven is good against everything and no other ship in eve can do this to every ship with just the 1 generic setup.
It does sound like alot of fun to have fleet battles work that way, and ccp did intend for every ship class to be able to play a role in combat.
There are other ship setups that are quite good vs everything too, like NOS Dominix.
I havent had very much experience with drones, but it seems to me that Nos Dominix can carry drones that kill frigates _fast_ with the added damage bonus it gets. Isnt it fair that a Raven can carry missiles that do the same?
so your saying you have no idea what your talking about but your posting anyway?
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.23 11:10:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Spartan239
so your saying you have no idea what your talking about but your posting anyway?
Pretty much. Dont worry, you'll get used to it...
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pwned |
Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.04.23 11:17:00 -
[72]
dominix is not the same as raven at all.
And the problem here is not the raven itself, its the precision missiles. Doh when will people read and start thinking abit. Use that grey matter in your skulls plz! It is there for a reason!
------ Originally by: Gazon
In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.23 11:42:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Breed Love
dominix is not the same as raven at all.
And the problem here is not the raven itself, its the precision missiles. Doh when will people read and start thinking abit. Use that grey matter in your skulls plz! It is there for a reason!
Stupidity flame. How rare. 
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pwned |
Valium Summer
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Posted - 2006.04.23 11:48:00 -
[74]
Old British Swordfish (biplanes) helped sink the Great German battleship "Bismarck" (wwII).
They (the biplanes) were antiquated but because the tracking on the battleships guns were calibrated for faster moving planes they failed to down a single plane.
I think they key here is for the Dev's to continuously participate in these fleet battles to witness the imbalance first hand and trust thier judgement.
I have seen the Arctic Circle... And it is round. |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.04.23 11:50:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I havent had very much experience with drones, but it seems to me that Nos Dominix can carry drones that kill frigates _fast_ with the added damage bonus it gets. Isnt it fair that a Raven can carry missiles that do the same?
you can still kill the drones
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Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Wladomir Jed
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Posted - 2006.04.23 11:57:00 -
[76]
Originally by: TOOMY
Edited by: TOOMY on 23/04/2006 03:39:12
on frig op there is only 2 things we have to watch out for
1) A smartass with a smartbombing apoc
2) raven with precision cruise
any turrent ship struggles to hit a small ship at close range and i dont see why ravens need to have this advantage end of.
Guess that means we have to remove one of the TWO!!!!! thing s you have watch out for. Shouldnt there be a "i win button" aswell in your ship only ofcoz?
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Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.04.23 12:51:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Malena Panic on 23/04/2006 12:54:06
Originally by: Steppa
The USS Wisconsin and the USS Missouri both participated in Desert Storm and both fired shots in anger. I believe that was somewhat less than 50 years ago.
And when was the last time one of [edit: gramer] those white elephants was involved in a surface fleet action?
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Rule2k
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Posted - 2006.04.23 13:47:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Grimpak
....and people don't understand that all this precision stuff simply undo the missile changes made a few months back where TRYING to tackle a goddamn raven was suicide.
untill people come cry "OMG PRECISIONS ARE NOT OVERPOWERED", I say for you to come in a inty and try to tackle a raven filled with precisions with your mates, also in frigs.
oh and don't come "omg but if you do over 8km/s you're free!"
well... WTB full set of snake implants + gitsii mwd + 4 domination nanofibs for my claw to escape them.
...wow... now my inty gets more expensive than your raven, doesn't it?
too ******* true
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.04.23 14:07:00 -
[79]
Wow they way some ppl are whining in this thread you'd think cruise precisions had the sig of a hamster and insta pop anything smaller than a cruiser. Precisions only hav half the sig of a normal cruise, if you take away that extra dmg to small ships we'll bak where we were a few months ago before T2 missiles where ravens cant kill frigates at all at any range, where other BS can quite easily.
You hav to understands CCPs predicament with this, as missiles hit at any range how exactly do you ballence them so it can compete with the other turret battleships poping cepters and AFs at range - without making them overpowered.
If precisions take a hit from the dreaded nerf bat, then turrets should hav an additional stat on them. Somthing like tracking sensitivity where targets with a smaller sig at range, while their within the tracking of the weapon they suffer a direct dmg reduction due to the sig of the gun being XX times to big for the target (400sig on gun VS 40 sig on the frig = 90% dmg penelty). Dont like like idea? no? then leave presicions alone, they fill a gap between different BS and as many hav mentioned before whats wrong with a several hundred million isk battleship being able to kill a 15 mil ship?
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:07:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
I do not think their overpowered, its only their use at clse range thats 'overpowered'. A bunch of long range BS will easly smush any cepter not moving at decent traversal, news flash thats the same for precisions as soon as a cepter or frigate pilot ogoes more than XX km/s the precisions dont do any dmg at all even if they are traveling directly to the target (low trans = dead cepter to guns fire).
FFS dont nerf precisions, it takes me half as many missiles to kill small things, which is often more than it takes normal cruise to kill a cruiser.... a frigate lasting longer than a cruiser..... thats already good in my book. Lets not for get that webbed/painted frigs at 2-10kms will die horribly to close range BS aswell. And lets forget the 24k isk ver volly cost!!!!
They are not overpowered, just overused. And we still have WCS dont we, Christ almightly you've all gone soft!!!!
Deal with it, its a game ffs and its working very well get out their and play it.
a vollley from my guns costs 35 k... this means i should wtf own cruisers?
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no sig :( |
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:23:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Harry Voyager on 23/04/2006 15:23:19
Originally by: Malena Panic
Edited by: Malena Panic on 23/04/2006 12:54:06
Originally by: Steppa
The USS Wisconsin and the USS Missouri both participated in Desert Storm and both fired shots in anger. I believe that was somewhat less than 50 years ago.
And when was the last time one of [edit: gramer] those white elephants was involved in a surface fleet action?
When was the last major war? One doesn't need juggernaughts to fight matchsticks.
Besides, we now have aircraft and frigates that drop battleship grade munitions, just as far, and just as accurately, for a fraction of the cost.
Harry Voyager
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:27:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Breed Love
dominix is not the same as raven at all.
And the problem here is not the raven itself, its the precision missiles. Doh when will people read and start thinking abit. Use that grey matter in your skulls plz! It is there for a reason!
Stupidity flame. How rare.
its a justifed flame, hes right and your a moron
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:31:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Breed Love
dominix is not the same as raven at all.
And the problem here is not the raven itself, its the precision missiles. Doh when will people read and start thinking abit. Use that grey matter in your skulls plz! It is there for a reason!
Stupidity flame. How rare.
its a justifed flame, hes right and your a moron
Does this mean i have to buy you flowers to make it right?
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pwned |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:42:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Trevize dk
Originally by: Tobin Ba'ha
Originally by: Trevize dk
This has been discussed over and over again. Fact of the matter is: If a BS fire a missile at you - it will surely hit you, and hopefully kill you. This goes for BS in eve and for ships IRL.
Really? A battleship in real life hits a torpedo boat with every shot? That's news to me. And by the way, real life comparisons for balance issues in MMOs are just plain idiocy. The OP has a point in that this game shouldn't devolve into one strategy, the way it has.
Bud, I thought you knew. We dont have liquid water in space, so the torps are not torps. In fact they are missiles. Kinda of a surprise ey?
They're also unguided, but seem to have fun turning to hit things. Unless you want torps and rockets to fly in a straight line and be hit or miss...
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:48:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Breed Love
dominix is not the same as raven at all.
And the problem here is not the raven itself, its the precision missiles. Doh when will people read and start thinking abit. Use that grey matter in your skulls plz! It is there for a reason!
Stupidity flame. How rare.
its a justifed flame, hes right and your a moron
Does this mean i have to buy you flowers to make it right?
no, being quiet would be good
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
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Cenelia
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:57:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Ithildin
Edit: also forgot to tell you that small ships' weapons has a very good chance of sinking larger ships in one shot, too.
heh, didnt the us command used the "refloat" command during a wargame when some general sank most of a carrier group using fishing boats? 
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.23 16:06:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Spartan239
no, being quiet would be good
Naah.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.23 16:19:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Grimpak
...wow... now my inty gets more expensive than your raven, doesn't it?
Yeah thats not right. But killing that raven with 2-3 frigates is?
Yea, if you mess up and don't carry drones, and have a friend in s frigate, and no nos, and...
Poor player skill | Excuse to not balance things
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.04.23 16:27:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Trevize dk
Originally by: Tobin Ba'ha
Originally by: Trevize dk
This has been discussed over and over again. Fact of the matter is: If a BS fire a missile at you - it will surely hit you, and hopefully kill you. This goes for BS in eve and for ships IRL.
Really? A battleship in real life hits a torpedo boat with every shot? That's news to me. And by the way, real life comparisons for balance issues in MMOs are just plain idiocy. The OP has a point in that this game shouldn't devolve into one strategy, the way it has.
Bud, I thought you knew. We dont have liquid water in space, so the torps are not torps. In fact they are missiles. Kinda of a surprise ey?
They're also unguided, but seem to have fun turning to hit things. Unless you want torps and rockets to fly in a straight line and be hit or miss...
Erm, you're about 60 years behind the times. Torpedoes have been guided since before even missiles.
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Masta Killa
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Posted - 2006.04.23 16:31:00 -
[90]
What kind of an idiot has his support charge an enemy fleet?
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