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pretty dissapointed w/ lack of help from GMs lately.

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hangovur	Posted - 2006.04.23 04:49:00 - [1] so i have had some pretty disapointing interactions with GMs lately, and it seems there is nothing that can be done. in the last few days i have been informed that making safespots over 150 AU from any warpable object is NOT an exploit, even though it is not possible to find these bookmarks (even using deep space scan probes). i have been dealing w/ some people who love to sit in these safespots with the knowlage that they can never be found and the GMs have simply said that it is perfectly fine. i wont say exactly how to make these (i know many people do, but the less that know how the better)safespots but i have shown a GM an example of one jsut a few days ago with the responce that it is not a petitionable action. the next problem i have is that placing jet cans at 200 km off of a gate in all directions to be used by interceptors to warp to is not an exploit. the major problem i have with this is that 2 months prior a group i was in was told to remove cans on a gate (no more than 8 ) or risk having temporary bans placed. how is it that a jet can was intended to be a static warp to point for tacklers? so no im looking at no less than 13 cans (4 of which were cans left from throw away frigates tht were purposely left, the rest are said corps can placed in all directions around the gate), and the GM says there is no problem there. dunno who to talk to about these issues as the GMs basically wave the ban card every time you try and talk about these issues, so here it is. flame away.
Dust Angel	Posted - 2006.04.23 05:13:00 - [2] Originally by: hangovur in the last few days i have been informed that making safespots over 150 AU from any warpable object is NOT an exploit, even though it is not possible to find these bookmarks (even using deep space scan probes). wrong _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics? Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
Toksin	Posted - 2006.04.23 05:16:00 - [3] Originally by: Dust Angel Originally by: hangovur in the last few days i have been informed that making safespots over 150 AU from any warpable object is NOT an exploit, even though it is not possible to find these bookmarks (even using deep space scan probes). wrong Everything I have ever heard agrees with Dust that it is an exploit. --------------- My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views.
Neslo	Posted - 2006.04.23 05:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Neslo on 23/04/2006 05:19:25 Originally by: Dust Angel wrong Well He'd post the GM response saying it's legit to make said BM but it's against forum rules to do it. Anyways.... It's not that we get an answer that is unfavorable. It's that it's inconsistant and depends on the GM of the moment. Then when the next GM of the month rolls in they change the rules. When we escalate it to senior GMs each time (just to make sure cuz we get the dance of "we don't know") they too are not consistant with their rulings. We have 3 rullings on the BMs.... Senior GM 1 = It's bannable (he says he removes them off chars accounts) Senior GM 2 = It's not bannable... It's gameplay Senior GM 3 = We don't have any policies so there for... we don't know so default to [insert useless response here] So if we could get a list of DO's and DON'Ts about cans.... BMs... Definition of SPAM in local... Definition of griefing (since some GMs will say trapping a ship in a dead end system IS griefing even though it's 0.0 and they came here of their own accord) Guess my question is... Can we get a little stability in the rulings? And make them clear before hand so when we petition we can say "these guys are violating this..." or when our members ask " The GMs have for certain said... this is legal or not legal" ... instead of... well if we petition it GM (whoever) says this... so let's hope we get him.... Kinda lame to have to do petitions that way... Nes From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
Berrik Radhok	Posted - 2006.04.23 06:20:00 - [5] Originally by: hangovur in the last few days i have been informed that making safespots over 150 AU from any warpable object is NOT an exploit, even though it is not possible to find these bookmarks (even using deep space scan probes). This is wrong. Launch probe as far "up" as possible, warp to probe, launch probes even further up. Or down. It can be probed out still, you're just lazy.
Dao 2	Posted - 2006.04.23 06:25:00 - [6] Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:29:08 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:27:37 the EVE gms have a history of being not helpful, actually being worse then nothing in some occasions :\| and for the love of god do something about the macrominers, plenty of ppl petition about them and yet stuff still doesn't get done. edit: ok im gonna be honest here, worse then nothing in a lot of occasions :\| but SOMETIMES are helpful, and im sure theres even a few hardcore good ones :\| the rest drag em down though.... 2nd edit: btw the forum gm's and the gm's ingame are completely different. Not the same ppl, and actually are volunteers (i think). And do a damn good job too, specially of late. ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Gonada	Posted - 2006.04.23 06:45:00 - [7] jeeze can you guys whine any louder ? -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Sensor Error	Posted - 2006.04.23 10:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Dao 2 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:29:08 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:27:37 the EVE gms have a history of being not helpful, actually being worse then nothing in some occasions :\| and for the love of god do something about the macrominers, plenty of ppl petition about them and yet stuff still doesn't get done. SHUT THE **** UP. They DO ban the macroers, they just don't give a song and dance about it. And just because the macroers you reported yesterday are still there DOESN'T mean that they arn't going to get banned. CCP track the macroers, track who they give the money to so they can ban the brokers and the buyers and any other accounts. I'm getting really ****** off with people having the knee jerk reaction of "BAN THEM WAAAAA!!! THEY MINED MY ORE!!! WAAAAA!" Yes, Macroers suck. Yes, CCP know this. and YES. CCP are doing something about it! /rant. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!! ------------------------------------------
Dao 2	Posted - 2006.04.23 10:27:00 - [9] Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 10:32:16 Originally by: Sensor Error Originally by: Dao 2 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:29:08 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:27:37 the EVE gms have a history of being not helpful, actually being worse then nothing in some occasions :\| and for the love of god do something about the macrominers, plenty of ppl petition about them and yet stuff still doesn't get done. SHUT THE **** UP. They DO ban the macroers, they just don't give a song and dance about it. And just because the macroers you reported yesterday are still there DOESN'T mean that they arn't going to get banned. CCP track the macroers, track who they give the money to so they can ban the brokers and the buyers and any other accounts. I'm getting really ****** off with people having the knee jerk reaction of "BAN THEM WAAAAA!!! THEY MINED MY ORE!!! WAAAAA!" Yes, Macroers suck. Yes, CCP know this. and YES. CCP are doing something about it! /rant. what about a month later? thats a A LOT of "monitoring" and y dont u stfu cause u don't no anything ;p imma .0 miner, have been for 2 years. haven't touched an empire rock for a good long time. But i still hate em, I wish there is a week response time :\| there just isn't. Either that or they're giving real damn short bans which imo would be lenient for macroers. They can mine all the junk they want in empire, long as they're doing it fair and square i have no problems edit: CCP doing something about this? YES, like the changes to the trials account changes GM's doing stuff about it..... ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Dao 2	Posted - 2006.04.23 10:28:00 - [10] Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 10:30:05 Originally by: Gonada jeeze can you guys whine any louder ? yes i can, but im sorry its just sad that the VOLUNTEERS do a better job then the ones that are paid for it. edit: and i do consider the fact that they get A LOT of petitions. But it's their job and imo the way they "handle" it is not the way to go. ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.04.23 11:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Sensor Error Originally by: Dao 2 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:29:08 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:27:37 the EVE gms have a history of being not helpful, actually being worse then nothing in some occasions :\| and for the love of god do something about the macrominers, plenty of ppl petition about them and yet stuff still doesn't get done. SHUT THE **** UP. They DO ban the macroers, they just don't give a song and dance about it. And just because the macroers you reported yesterday are still there DOESN'T mean that they arn't going to get banned. CCP track the macroers, track who they give the money to so they can ban the brokers and the buyers and any other accounts. I'm getting really ****** off with people having the knee jerk reaction of "BAN THEM WAAAAA!!! THEY MINED MY ORE!!! WAAAAA!" Yes, Macroers suck. Yes, CCP know this. and YES. CCP are doing something about it! /rant. Commander sun , syming 18 thro 23 birdie 20 - royal horse guard corp Petitioned reported and over and over by lots of ppl heck now we just steal fro mtheir cans ive petitioned till im blue and black in the face. 12 months and counting petitions every other week follow up on follow up petitions (GMs sitll looking into it) tho elevation to senior GM hasnt been done yet. SO youre viewpoint on macroers being removed is **** not all the reported ones are removed. Just do an agetn search and follow these guys round its really easy ore. and the GMs throu their actions endorse what they are doing (or their lack of action)
Malken	Posted - 2006.04.23 11:05:00 - [12] i have probed spots 500au out and collected ships. when they introduced the scan probes it stopped being a exploit. you are just to lazy or unskilled to find the spots. Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.04.23 11:06:00 - [13] begin by using youre probes then go out to 150au rinse and repeat eventually u can get up to 1000 au off and set youre own off screen au safespots.
Cypherous	Posted - 2006.04.23 11:42:00 - [14] I have a BM thats over 90au from a warpable object and it was made prior to them fixing the hole of bookmarking systems pre-exodus, its a perfectly legit BM as it has co-ordinates and its over 90au away, nothing that can be done about it and i'll probably use it again one day :) O RLY?! --Jorauk Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.04.23 11:43:00 - [15] 150AU safespots made with a deep space probe are certainly not an exploit [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.04.23 12:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Dark Shikari 150AU safespots made with a deep space probe are certainly not an exploit And they most certainly can be probed out. Use observators. Just because you lack the skills or experience to do so does not make it an exploit.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Dao 2 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:29:08 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:27:37 the EVE gms have a history of being not helpful, actually being worse then nothing in some occasions :\| and for the love of god do something about the macrominers, plenty of ppl petition about them and yet stuff still doesn't get done. Miners get banned, not in massive numbers like WoW because such massive numbers don't exist here, only a fraction do, so only a fraction get banned at a time. kieron even mentioned in another thread 50-100 roughly, get banned after intense investigation, but they don't make news posts about it (altho it'd be nice, and the TOS needs to be changed so they are allowed to have a wall of shame for s to see). Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Dao 2	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Dao 2 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:29:08 Edited by: Dao 2 on 23/04/2006 06:27:37 the EVE gms have a history of being not helpful, actually being worse then nothing in some occasions :\| and for the love of god do something about the macrominers, plenty of ppl petition about them and yet stuff still doesn't get done. Miners get banned, not in massive numbers like WoW because such massive numbers don't exist here, only a fraction do, so only a fraction get banned at a time. kieron even mentioned in another thread 50-100 roughly, get banned after intense investigation, but they don't make news posts about it (altho it'd be nice, and the TOS needs to be changed so they are allowed to have a wall of shame for s to see). well no doubt some get banned, but def. not in the numbers of any sort of other game. It seems like the GMs, or at least some of em don't care as much. They get petitioned and still nothing gets done. Maybe they have more fun copy and pasting the paragraph about "no evidence" then having to check out macro claims. ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:41:00 - [19] Originally by: hangovur in the last few days i have been informed that making safespots over 150 AU from any warpable object is NOT an exploit, even though it is not possible to find these bookmarks (even using deep space scan probes). Bullcrap, the deep space probe will find a ship at any distance and put you right on the z-plane. If there's a safespot you can't find with them, you're doing something wrong? Also, if it's due to the z-plane thing, that's being fixed with a later patch when they make them scan in 3d. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Mark19960	Posted - 2006.04.23 15:47:00 - [20] I have reported so many that If I had a dollar for every one that I have reported I would pay off the remainder of my auto loan (I just bought the car in September last year :P) I have just simply got tired of it. It does not matter what evidence I present or the fact that it is so obvious.. like the barges tossing out cans and the haulers scooping the contents SO FAST that you see a blip on the screen. No human can scan the screen, click a can, open it and drag the contents so fast as to only have the can appear as a 'blip' like that. Report that to GMs... "Thank you for reporting this, we will look into it" Next day, still there and update the petition to reflect their current locations in the systems... "We are investigating this matter, thank you for the additional information" Day 3..... same thing. If some of this crap was not so obvious it would not matter. I know that some of the other farmers out there are hard to spot.. hell I had follow a crew for a good 20 minutes before I realised they are farmers. Farmers get smarter by the day. GMs as far as I know have not removed a single one of the farmers I have reported. The farmers on my list, still come online and still do that fantastic can switch in less than a second trick. I know at least 4 or 5 others that have petitioned as well. Petitions in numbers dont help out im sure.. just increases the workload. I do not know what is up with the GMs... My faith in them is lost. I have done everything up to and including their work to get farmers banned and they are still here. Now we blow up MMs. I am sure there will be a rule against blowing them up someplace.... I will probably get banned for griefing a macro miner.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.04.23 16:07:00 - [21] He, i reported a guy who bought 8.5 bill isk off ebay a week or so ago. The guy is still logging in. Youd think him sharing half his ebay history in an application evemail would be sufficient... ------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Markie	Posted - 2006.04.24 15:12:00 - [22] Cans suck as warp to points but in 0.0 you can always destroy them. I can make 190 AU Safe spots in about 90 seconds in any direction. Probing is simple and they are not safe that far off grid, just takes time and skils. ROA Forums Mercs For Hire --> Join ROA Here <--
MrBadidea	Posted - 2006.04.24 16:22:00 - [23] Lost a pretty expensive mission ship when my client locked up rather randomly one day; I've got errorlogs and stuff. GM says nono to Reimbursement because they can "only reimburse ships when there is a problem with their Client or Server." /me points to errorlogs generated by client "We can only use our serverside evidence" ...
Emsigma	Posted - 2006.04.24 17:03:00 - [24] Or just the fact that you can't send petition that ain't regardng stuck, exploit or harrasment directly but have to wait about a week for an answer. It's like "I can't board the ship I have ejected 5 minz ago" Now.. should I wait in space in my safespot the odd week it takes for them to reply or what should i do? The Other section is a joke and no company that sold a "real" product that is used in real time would get away with such a crappy system for complaints. EVE is a great game and the devs to a great job. The gm's however does, in my honest oppinion, a very bad job. There is no stringency in their work and they don't seem to be working along any kind of policy or guidelines. If EVE was working as online poker is today and CCP was the network administrators and companies could then try to get their own customers tp play in the CCP network I bet you that CCP would not have more than 100 customers left after 6 month due to their total lack of customer service when it comes to handling problems / complaints.

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