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Karn Mithralia
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Posted - 2006.05.03 13:21:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 03/05/2006 13:22:49
You may not see my brother Telemicus, slaver, but it does not mean he does nothing. It only means you are not all seeing and all powerful like that mythical god of yours.
Thrace Inc. holds an honored name among us. Not all men fight with guns.
-----------------------------------------
Now recruiting. |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.05.03 16:06:00 -
[62]
Traders and all those otherwise furthering the cause of the Empire are honored here, too, but everyone would be well advised to get informed before accusing others of not fighting.
This thread is full of the howling of malcreants who accuse us of announcing the public aquisition of those slaves as a 'grand victory' missing the point we tried to make entirely still. The slaves as such are utterly unimportant - the fact that currently noone stands up for 'the Republic' other than with words is. At least one should think so.
Now recruiting!
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Camar
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Posted - 2006.05.03 19:50:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Tharrn
The slaves as such are utterly unimportant - the fact that currently noone stands up for 'the Republic' other than with words is. At least one should think so.
Should we then claim the same roaming freely inside empire borders freeing slaves as well?
Pointless propaganda and the same things still caught in the same loop as always. Perhaps the honest truth is that either side do not see much of the others cause there are not that many left in FULL active duty?
Actually, do not bother to answer either of the questions.
I simply do not care on what mostly goes on here anymore.
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Vera Nosfyu
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Posted - 2006.05.03 20:04:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tharrn
But it's always the people doing nothing who toot their horn the loudest here.
You couldn't be any more correct, Tharrn. In fact, you are living proof of that statement.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin |
Ogmund
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Posted - 2006.05.03 20:48:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tharrn
The slaves as such are utterly unimportant - the fact that currently noone stands up for 'the Republic' other than with words is. At least one should think so.
You are wrong. I told you yesterday what my response to your criminal action would be. Last night four Amarrian slave transports fell burning into the gravity well of Lisudeh IV - moon 4 after I recovered their human cargo. I notified the local Theological Council Tribunal to come recover the crew's lifepods.
It gave me no pleasure to destroy those vessels. I made sure their owners understood that this was a reply to 1PG's activity in Rens. Unfortunately none of the Matari you abducted from Rens was among those I set free. Perhaps I will have to look closer to Ardishapur to find them.
I will continue to conduct my search until I have as many freed slaves as I can carry or until someone kills, captures, or escorts me from the Empire.
The actions of one Matari miner will not, of course, change anything in the big picture. But neither will your abduction of Matari citizens from Rens. The best way for 1PG to defend the Empire's borders would be for you to stay on your side of the border. I would rather be home mining scordite and I would be doing just that had you kept where you belong.
Ogmund
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Vera Nosfyu
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Posted - 2006.05.03 21:59:00 -
[66]
You're too soft, Ogmund. Shoot to kill.
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"Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.05.03 23:58:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ogmund
Unfortunately none of the Matari you abducted from Rens was among those I set free. Perhaps I will have to look closer to Ardishapur to find them.
In fact you can find them aboard our ships now. Feel free to try to claim those.
As for Stormriders: Go sniff some more glue, monkeys.
Now recruiting!
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.05.04 00:09:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 03/05/2006 13:22:49
You may not see my brother Telemicus, slaver, but it does not mean he does nothing. It only means you are not all seeing and all powerful like that mythical god of yours.
Thrace Inc. holds an honored name among us. Not all men fight with guns.
Ah the noble Karn. It's been a while, you and your kin are always welcome in our halls.
The irony of this is that I have passed by a few of these very slavers in the last couple of days. I suppose the fact that they didn't see me just shows I still ain't lost my touch. 
>> RECRUITING << |
Ogmund
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Posted - 2006.05.04 00:25:00 -
[69]
This link shows the destruction of slave transports last night in the Lisudeh system.
action in Lisudeh
Today I moved on to the Eredan system. I found a large convoy but my scanners showed only one ship with a significant number of slaves aboard. Although the convoy fired briskly they could not prevent the inevitable.
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Edward Sarum
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Posted - 2006.05.04 03:09:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ogmund
Unfortunately none of the Matari you abducted from Rens was among those I set free. Perhaps I will have to look closer to Ardishapur to find them.
I will continue to conduct my search until I have as many freed slaves as I can carry or until someone kills, captures, or escorts me from the Empire.
Ogmund you do not need to search for the salves I boguth at Rens, they are on all my ships. I am not hard to find, I am often in the Derelik region, in fact I passed you today but you ran from the system before I could say hello.
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Edward Sarum
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Posted - 2006.05.04 03:11:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tharrn
As for Stormriders: Go sniff some more glue, monkeys.
Legatus forgive me but like small children throwing a tantrum the "Drizzleriders" are best ignored. They can speak a great deal but are actually quite impident. By speaking to them directly you just encourage their child like rants that sound grand but have no substance to back them.
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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2006.05.04 03:26:00 -
[72]
Quote:
This link shows the destruction of slave transports last night in the Lisudeh system.
action in Lisudeh
Today I moved on to the Eredan system. I found a large convoy but my scanners showed only one ship with a significant number of slaves aboard. Although the convoy fired briskly they could not prevent the inevitable.
So Gradient now supports terrorism?
God is with us.
PIE Website |
Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.05.04 04:14:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Quote:
This link shows the destruction of slave transports last night in the Lisudeh system.
action in Lisudeh
Today I moved on to the Eredan system. I found a large convoy but my scanners showed only one ship with a significant number of slaves aboard. Although the convoy fired briskly they could not prevent the inevitable.
So Gradient now supports terrorism?
Small detail, and I know you will ignore it but an armed and armoured convoy is not a civilian target therefore it cannot by definition be and act of terrorism.
Slavers raids on unarmed civilian colonists along the border are by definition acts of terrorism.
The Amarr Empire is the largest supporter of organised terrorism and user of terror tactics by any accepted definition of the term.
>> RECRUITING << |
Maggot
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Posted - 2006.05.04 08:44:00 -
[74]
Excellent job Brothers.
Glad to see there are still people with spirit within the Republic.
I would urge you all to keep a close eye on the markets and see who else is selling our brothers and sisters like cattle.
Make their names public for all to see.
Maggot.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
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Posted - 2006.05.04 09:25:00 -
[75]
Quote:
So Gradient now supports terrorism?
We do not.
But neither do we, or have we ever, supported slavery. In addition, buying the work contracts of free people from the Republic and taking them to slavery in Amarr is a violation of the Republic laws and of human decency.
For the record, brother Ogmund is acting on his own, but he works within Gradient corporation policy and his superior officers are aware of his actions.
--
Elsebeth Rhiannon, Gradient, asst XO
I am a weapon in the hand of fate
Peace in a pod
(Gradient is hiring) |
Theron Gyrow
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Posted - 2006.05.04 09:42:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
In addition, buying the work contracts of free people from the Republic and taking them to slavery in Amarr is a violation of the Republic laws and of human decency.
I am not well versed in Amarr law, but I would think that this would be at least a breach of contract according to it as well. Or are you paying for them to pretend to be slaves for cheap propaganda? What do their real, official papers say?
--
Gradient's forum |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.05.04 13:13:00 -
[77]
Buying Freed Slaves in the Republic is totally legal. Maybe you should better wonder why your kin are selling them. Re-enslaving them via agents in the Empire is even encouraged.
Ogmund may be acting on his own but as you might be aware he is operating in Concord protected areas only, leaving us exactly one option to dislodge him from the Empire via the Cloning Vats. This option is currently under evaluation - if we should decide to invest the rather huge sum the Concord miscreants demand you can be sure that we'll make good use of all involved possibilities. Ogmund is already under constant observation.
For the time being this will be the final communication on this matter.
Now recruiting!
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
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Posted - 2006.05.04 13:33:00 -
[78]
You come to the Republic, take our free people into slavery, claiming it is "perfectly legal" in the Republic based on how the market works. Well, we could as well claim that what Ogmund is doing is "perfectly legal" in Amarr, based on the fact that (as you point out) CONCORD does not give a damn.
Other than that, I will refrain from comments before I have had the chance to discuss this further internally.
--
Elsebeth Rhiannon, Gradient, asst XO
I am a weapon in the hand of fate
Peace in a pod
(Gradient is hiring) |
Rocius
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Posted - 2006.05.04 16:55:00 -
[79]
I have little to say on this topic to you Amarrian slavers, yet let it be known, that Ogmund does indeed work with my full knowledge as to his actions. Furthermore, I personaly support his steps on this matter. If you want to spend your isk, come to my home, and trick laborers into being hired by you, then spirit them away, I will come for them. For every time I hear of your actions inside the Republic, I will revisit those actions ten fold in YOUR home. Not only will I free my kin, but will be sure that the lives of those transporting them are forfeit as well.
You can "observe" me all you damn well please.
Dont take your gaming too serious ! |
Pacal Balan
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:58:00 -
[80]
*Pacal simply smiles at brother Rocius words*
Tis a shame these darkened amarr maggots haven't understood yet my brother... that is all that needs to be said.
" Cizin's fire speaks to us...his chosen, Pero no pudieron matar nuestras rafces, for we cannot die!ö |
Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.05.05 01:30:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
...buying the work contracts of free people from the Republic and taking them to slavery in Amarr is a violation of the Republic laws and of human decency...
The problem is that the transiant worker contracts available on the market are legal in both the Republic and the Empire. The actual act of enslaving these workers is done within the Empire where our laws do no apply. Inter-Faction laws are spartan at best given the tenuous nature of the Yulai Accord. I fully agree with your sentiments but this is indeed not an unlawful act no matter how unjust.
I have a solution and I will prepare an official announcent on local channels when I return to Republic space. Just as the Ushra'Khan are willing to take care of transporting our enslaved brothers to freedom I would like to propose steps to protect our brothers once they are free.
Thrace Inc and any other reputable Republican group who wishes to render assistance should seek to control the flow of worker contracts. Instead of trading freed slaves work contracts on the open market I put it to the citizens of the Republic to transfer freed slave contracts to Thrace Inc and other members of this labour consortium. Just as we cannot pay for every contract tranfered to us we will provide these workers to any reputable Matari organisation that has work for them without any charge.
In time I'm sure we can develop a network of groups who can provide slaves to those who can free them and in turn pass the details on to those who can find them work. Or I should say develop a larger network than the one that already exists.
I am sure it will also be of benefit to publicly identify those who sell worker contracts to slavers. I will attend to both matters once I get back to the Republic.
>> RECRUITING << |
Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2006.05.05 04:17:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 05/05/2006 04:17:43
Gradients new alliegence to terrorism and warmongering through the means of their support of the wanton murder of Amarrian civilians and the destruction and theft of Amarrian property by Gradient pilots has been noted.
Standings will be changed accordingly and if necessary more drastic measures will be taken.
I suggest Gradient should look to the needs of its Republic before supporting any more such warmongering agression against the peaceful civilians of the Empire.
Nobiscum Deus!
PIE Website |
Rocius
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Posted - 2006.05.05 04:49:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Rocius on 05/05/2006 04:55:10
Perhaps PIE should mind its own damn buisness. Or keep 1PG on a tighter leash. Gradient works for a stronger Republic, thats what we are, but you come into MY HOUSE, take MY PEOPLE, and think I will have us stande idle as you do it, then you are indeed, much less inteligent than I previously thought.
I would say that we are going to set our standings accordingly as well... but hell..... is there a setting lower for you anyway?? I think not.
As far as Gradient supporting terrorism, no we do not support it. I would never advocate orbital bombardment of your planets civilian populations. I would never support biological or chemical warefare on civilian targets. That is terrorism. Oh, wait... Vitoc.... thats chemical.... I wonder where that is used. Thats why I have no issue going after your transport ships, that is simply returning my people to their homes. And the crew of those ships lost... if they wanted a safe job, they should have not signed aboard slaver ships. They are NOT innocent civilians.
Dont take your gaming too serious ! |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:02:00 -
[84]
Thrace, wise as always, and I am afraid your legal analysis does indeed hold. Though, I still doubt the people involved would have entered the slaver ships had they known of this little legal twist in stock for them - at least some kind of deception is at work and it might just fit the description of kidnapping.
Not that the legal finer points are the real issue here.
We need to talk, again; your plans sound very much like some of ours.
--
Elsebeth Rhiannon, Gradient, asst XO
"I am a weapon in the hand of fate"
Peace in a pod
(Gradient is hiring) |
Smagd
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:55:00 -
[85]
Sigma now,
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
[...] taking them to slavery in Amarr is a violation [...] of human decency
Yes it is. I've met more than an endurable amount of dazzled stares of dawning relief on the faces of such poor people, found on military convoys deep in Almur. And if the Republic Fleet agents are not lying, that kind or presence is indeed unlawful.
Who cannot feel compelled to help those people? Those humans?
Those are not just a symbol on your Neocom with a little skull. These are Vherokior, these are Brutor, these are Sebiestor, and, less frequently, Thukker brethren, and all with their own gruesome stories. I've even found a Nefantar.
The only one you'll never again find are Starkmanir.
Some of those I could accept into my crew with decent pay and ample liberties, and many a Sebiestor has found a way into my station offices. Some went to the Republic Fleet's own academies, and let me tell you, there is nothing more refreshing as witnessing such restored order: having a new flock of science graduates board your ship eager to be taken to Hek, to work for Boundless Creations on new Sleipnir designs, or to E02-IK to improve the Jaguar's speed for Thukker Mix.
Listen to them now! They're full of life, and vivid.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc and any other reputable Republican group who wishes to render assistance should seek to control the flow of worker contracts. Instead of trading freed slaves work contracts on the open market I put it to the citizens of the Republic to transfer freed slave contracts to Thrace Inc and other members of this labour consortium. Just as we cannot pay for every contract tranfered to us we will provide these workers to any reputable Matari organisation that has work for them without any charge.
In time I'm sure we can develop a network of groups who can provide slaves to those who can free them and in turn pass the details on to those who can find them work. Or I should say develop a larger network than the one that already exists.
I am sure it will also be of benefit to publicly identify those who sell worker contracts to slavers. I will attend to both matters once I get back to the Republic.
People, listen to this man. I'll see what I can do for you, Thelemicus.
After all that, and forgive me if I'm sounding a bit long-winded, but that Whiskey yesterday had a great shine:
Fly far.
do |
Masim
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Posted - 2006.05.05 10:57:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Masim on 05/05/2006 11:00:12
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
The problem is that the transiant worker contracts available on the market are legal in both the Republic and the Empire. The actual act of enslaving these workers is done within the Empire where our laws do no apply. Inter-Faction laws are spartan at best given the tenuous nature of the Yulai Accord. I fully agree with your sentiments but this is indeed not an unlawful act no matter how unjust.
I am no lawyer, but somehow this reasoning is not right. Allow me to explain.
A contract needs to be signed by both parties for it to be legal. Also, leaving vital information out of a contract is concerned illegal according to Republic law.
In this case, buying the contracts on open market is legal. As is enslaving people in Amarr (since it is done by their law, not the Republic law). However I am sure that the poor workers contracts do not include their destination, if they would there would be no contracts, since the former slaves would *not* sign them. And forcing people to sign papers is also illegal in the Republic.
This is a breach of contract and trust. It is illegal by Republic law.
Buying the contracts is not against the law. Transporting people out of the Republic against their will is.
(( Edited some typos ))
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Edward Sarum
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:30:00 -
[87]
The ability of the Minmatar to rationalize their crimes is truly amazing. A perfectly legal prucahse which by the way was made from a Minmatar corporation and was sanctioned by their so called republic is something to be agast at and requires a response.
The illegal action of attacking civilian shipping and stealing their legal property is however a good thing, but YET they claim to not support terrorism. Okay so you are petty pirate thugs then?
In either case you do not support the very laws of your own people and yet want everyone to see you as some kind of hero's. Truly pathetic...
===============================================
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:36:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 05/05/2006 12:36:27
Gradient does not in general approve of attacking non-hostile convoys.
Ogmund's operation here is a one-time special reaction to a provocation by 1st Praetorian Guard; namely the provocation of "acquiring" free people from Minmatar under the veil of the intricacies of international market law.
You can put an end to this uncivility very simply: return the people mentioned in the first post of this thread, and we will immeditely order our pilots to stand down with their "re-acquisition" operations.
--
Elsebeth Rhiannon, Gradient, asst XO
"I am a weapon in the hand of fate"
Peace in a pod
(Gradient is hiring) |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:47:00 -
[89]
You have about two days to leave Amarr space. Failure to stop your activities in Devoid will result in Concord no longer protecting you. The papers have been filed and just need to be signed.
This will be a one-time short campaign as a direct result of Ogmund's actions unless you decide to formalize a war. In contrast to your terrorist forces we never broke Republic Laws - although I have to admit that, quite frankly, I wouldn't care if we'd do as your 'Republic' is not a proper state and still not accepted as sovereign entity by the Empire.
Now recruiting!
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:58:00 -
[90]
Gradient holds that the action of kidnapping free people - regardless of the way how they entered your custody - into slavery in Amarr is a breach of the spirit of the Republic laws.
Gradient pilots are free to fly any area of space of their choosing.
Pilot Ogmund's actions are not in violation of Gradient corporation policy.
Your threats and your legal twisting of words do not change these facts.
See you in space, pilots.
--
Elsebeth Rhiannon, Gradient, asst XO
"I am a weapon in the hand of fate"
Peace in a pod
(Gradient is hiring) |
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