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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.04.25 02:20:00 -
[61]
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Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
MajorPMS
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Posted - 2006.04.25 03:29:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Every BPO in the game should have price in RP. So every dedicated player can get one. For now we have unfair situation where older player who got BPO when the first batch of BPOs was seeded have big advantage. No amount of RP nor dedication will give you Cerberus BPO now because they are not seeding it. I call it unfair. Every player in the game should have the same starting chance. It should be upto you if you can take it.
I'm surprised u didnt get the usuall "life isnt fair, deal with it." reply for that. I agree with you to a certain degree, I mean sure we have other chances at some other new items like the new battle cruisers and such . But so do the older players that have had a shot at HAC bpo's .
CCP we need more BPO's , HAC prices are to high .
/signed
  
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Xoduse
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Posted - 2006.04.25 04:16:00 -
[63]
I totally agree that the current prices of HACS are ludicrous and CCP needs to take a look at it. The only problem I see in the future however, is that many of people and small corps who recieve a T2 BPO/BPC (if they are implemented) will most likely put it up on escrow for a few billion for the quick money, so they can buy what they want. Its the big alliances and production corps that will buy the T2 BPO off them, because these guys are standing back and looking at the long run. Most small corps/solo players will not try to produce lots of pricy to build HACs when they can get alot of isk quickly. Therefore when the BPO IS sold on escrow to the big guys with all the cash and T2 BPOs since they are the only ones that can afford it, we are in the same situation we started with...
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.25 09:13:00 -
[64]
Edited by: madaluap on 25/04/2006 09:13:51
Originally by: Khatred
khatred...nvm, i havent flown a hac in 9 months they are going above there bc tech 2 versions, the playerbase has grown and this is not a OMFG YOU MAKE ZE PROFIT B I G neerrrrrf. Took me while befor i got really ****ed off, that was when i couldnt order a hac @ naga anymore because demand was to high even @ 125 mil...and they now had a waiting time of more than half a year.
Im NOT doing a player vs buildersthread here, the fix needs to come from ccp themselves and IF i had a hac bpo i would sell them for those prices aswell, its human to do so.
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In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
Kard Fater
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Posted - 2006.04.25 10:17:00 -
[65]
Reverse engineering should probably handle this problem. At least I hope so.
[HUN] j=munkßsk÷zlegTny
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StarLite
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Posted - 2006.04.25 11:10:00 -
[66]
Edited by: StarLite on 25/04/2006 11:09:54
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 24/04/2006 12:09:33
i want to fly a goddamn hac again for 90 mil with isnt cheap
Buy a sacrilege :)
ok... that didn't relaly help ya, did it? :P
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This sig is guarded by SigGuard(c)
This sig was hijacked by SigBusterÖ - Wrangler
Wrangler nerfed my HiJack and all I got was this gold colour :( -Capsicum
I am a lawyer for SnigguardÖ, we will be in touch - Cortes |
Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.04.25 11:20:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 25/04/2006 11:24:50
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 25/04/2006 11:20:39
Oh to be in BoB for the 40m isk HAC's :D
Personally it doesn't have an effect on me as I bought a ton of HACs when they first came out and still have 'many' but even without the issue affecting me directly I can see the price is stupid.
Supply and demand might be a tenant on which Eve is founded upon but with the the tech 2 market there is no capacity to increase supply so inflation will always push prices up.
That's just basic Microeconomics, we have no price elasticity in supply and so because games are essentially an aspirational past-time demand will always be inelastic, and thus inflation sensitive. Traditional supply and demand would say that if the price of any item went up then you would have a proportional increase in the amount of items created to capitalise on that profit and thatincreased supply would temper price inflation.
The approach that I think is a mistake is by just telling people "work for it" as there has to be a finite limit to how much work you expect people to put in before they will just think feck it and stick to what they have, this in itself will not reduce the prices but will reduce the inflation rate. That in itself is a problem in our virtual world because you have to have a system in place where people can still measure their own progression, if people don't ever see themselves as progressing (by getting better ships for examply) then they will stop playing.
I honestly think that because of the player driven economy that they put in place CCP needs to hire an economist to help guide their macroeconomic decisions, at the end of the day the population of Eve is now half that of Iceland itself and so deserve to have a system in place that can properly deal with supply and demand.
The easiest way I would see is that initially a T2 blueprint would be issued to X number of people (currently around 20 I believe), over time the demand for that item will increase because the population increases but also because more people become skilled enough to use the item. Because of that they need to increase the supply, most easily through still giving out the BP's with no set limit of supply, the problem would be find an algorithim that would correctly balance the supply (via the control of BP's)
The net impact on producers would be 0 as a proper algorithim would not oversupply the market (and so reducing prices) until such time as the item is no longer desirable, yet using a T2 item as a pre-requisite for its corresponding T3 item would indefinately maintain that demand and so its revenue generation.
To all those that think the current situation is fine I would ask that you find a friend that has any sort of background or understanding of economics and put it to them a situation in which the government artifically limits supply of an item that has an inelastic demand, limits the number of producers, doubles the customer base of that item but then refuses petitions of further intervention to resolve the situation. See what they say about it.
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DeadRow
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Posted - 2006.04.25 11:39:00 -
[68]
/Signed
<3 mada
Originally by: Eris Discordia
TAKE COVER, HIDE YOUR SIGNATURE
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Evil Thug
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:55:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Iratus Caelestis
See what they say about it.
They will say : "Don`t buy expensive HACs" 
Good written post. 100% Agree.
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Logged in a system, next to you =) |
Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: missusblonde
YES and while we are at it lets seed t2 bpos on the market for everyone to buy it would be the same thing really just betterer!
Well why not exactly? T2 has a much longer supply chain than T1, and greater skill requirements; both of these will act as barriers to entry into the manufacturing market.
Of course, manufacturers might only be able to realize a 10 mil profit on a ship rather than 150 mil, but many more players would be able to participate in this aspect of the game...
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Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:21:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 25/04/2006 14:23:13
What the drugs is the issue here? Its not like 200mil is that much money in the first place - even casual players will get that in a week (either by level 4 missions or 0.0). How in the world is it bad to have your uber-goodies cost a bit?
Infact its the only thing keeping EvE from being purely a 'time played' thing. If players were able to throw HACs out the window the way they do with anything that costs less than 50m uninusred, it would mean literally anyone without the skills to fly a Force Recon or HAC might as well not bother launching.
More power = more risk is something excellent. I don't see any reason at all for this to change.
And before anyone here complains about the fact that I personally don't have the skills to fly HACs, who the hell cares? I frequently buy and fly faction cruisers, which are nothing but underpowered HACs and I still don't see the big freaking deal.
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:34:00 -
[72]
but if HAC prices keep going up and up im sure pvp will only get better because T1 cruisers will replace the HACs.
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Father Weebles
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:36:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Father Weebles on 25/04/2006 15:35:58
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 25/04/2006 14:23:13
What the drugs is the issue here? Its not like 200mil is that much money in the first place - even casual players will get that in a week (either by level 4 missions or 0.0). How in the world is it bad to have your uber-goodies cost a bit?
Infact its the only thing keeping EvE from being purely a 'time played' thing. If players were able to throw HACs out the window the way they do with anything that costs less than 50m uninusred, it would mean literally anyone without the skills to fly a Force Recon or HAC might as well not bother launching.
More power = more risk is something excellent. I don't see any reason at all for this to change.
And before anyone here complains about the fact that I personally don't have the skills to fly HACs, who the hell cares? I frequently buy and fly faction cruisers, which are nothing but underpowered HACs and I still don't see the big freaking deal.
Yeah I agree. But one things for sure, CCP needs to fix insurance to cover how much money something costs. Who wants to fly a 240m non insurable ship into combat?
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.25 18:10:00 -
[74]
Edited by: madaluap on 25/04/2006 18:12:55
Originally by: Father Weebles
Edited by: Father Weebles on 25/04/2006 15:35:58
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 25/04/2006 14:23:13
What the drugs is the issue here? Its not like 200mil is that much money in the first place - even casual players will get that in a week (either by level 4 missions or 0.0). How in the world is it bad to have your uber-goodies cost a bit?
Infact its the only thing keeping EvE from being purely a 'time played' thing. If players were able to throw HACs out the window the way they do with anything that costs less than 50m uninusred, it would mean literally anyone without the skills to fly a Force Recon or HAC might as well not bother launching.
More power = more risk is something excellent. I don't see any reason at all for this to change.
And before anyone here complains about the fact that I personally don't have the skills to fly HACs, who the hell cares? I frequently buy and fly faction cruisers, which are nothing but underpowered HACs and I still don't see the big freaking deal.
Yeah I agree. But one things for sure, CCP needs to fix insurance to cover how much money something costs. Who wants to fly a 240m non insurable ship into combat?
nah tech 2 insurance is fine, its far to playercontrolled to make tech 2 ships fully insurable, they are elite.
@ ern. More power = more risk, but where does more power starts to become smaller than risk. its when ships intended for pvp find mostly their ways into agent*****s...HE! wait isnt that exactly what you suggested, that i should ***** missions. Sorry im in 0.0 atm, i have some bigger issues @ hands than being a carebear...
/edit i dont want them ubercheap, around 100 mil is imo a fine price, just a small update and unless you have a bpo, what are you defending?.. the right to pay more
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In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.26 17:12:00 -
[75]
found some other suggestions here
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In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.26 17:21:00 -
[76]
to decrease prices: build more or loose less
if no one poped HACs and insted ransomed them then the demand would not be so high
its hard to ransom anything in this game but try ultra hard with hacs :P
-------------------Sig-----------------------
IPO idea: give it a read, feedback wanted, thanks |
madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.26 17:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Gronsak
to decrease prices: build more or loose less
if no one poped HACs and insted ransomed them then the demand would not be so high
its hard to ransom anything in this game but try ultra hard with hacs :P
we dont ransom
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In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2006.04.26 20:06:00 -
[78]
the Whiners seem to forget that most of the time a BS is much better platform than a HAC. and much cheaper anyways. More powerfull most of the time. So no point in whining. You need bit more skills to fit one to it's full power but BS are the way to go.
nothing wrong with the BPO system
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freakmistere
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Posted - 2006.04.26 21:40:00 -
[79]
not about the power its the fun
signed
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.04.27 08:46:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Glarion Garnier
the Whiners seem to forget that most of the time a BS is much better platform than a HAC. and much cheaper anyways. More powerfull most of the time. So no point in whining. You need bit more skills to fit one to it's full power but BS are the way to go.
nothing wrong with the BPO system
Are you saying you need more skills to fit a BS than a HAC.... lol
A BS is a better platform... some of the time. In a smaller roaming gang a HAC is far more useful and your arguement seems to be that it is better because it is cheaper... er missing the point slightly I think, the HAC should be an uninsurable loss but it shouldn't be twice the price of a BS. Equal at most and if uninsurable then that's still a big monetary loss if you get blown up.
I think we also miss another point on the BPO system, people bemoan the prices and the profit that holders supposedly make.
The thing takes a day and a half to make ffs, so even if they are making 120m each on them then they are making a total of 80m a day. As you can get than in an hour from mining its hardly a money spinner.
Coupled that with the fact that there are I believe about 20 blueprints of each ship around , that means around 12 of each ship per day. Between 100,000 potential customers. Figuring 50,000 of them have been playing for over a year then thousands of them will be able to fly them.
The system is whack.
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.27 15:01:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Glarion Garnier
the Whiners seem to forget that most of the time a BS is much better platform than a HAC. and much cheaper anyways. More powerfull most of the time. So no point in whining. You need bit more skills to fit one to it's full power but BS are the way to go.
nothing wrong with the BPO system
What do you mean, seem to forget? I can fly a blasterthron fine, i know that ill probably kill another hac easily. Who is talking about skills? BS are boring, they turn around like bricks. You are claiming BS are more powerfull, thus should cost less....
And where did i judge the bpo system? I dont care who gets the money, im stating the ammount of BPO should be updated or a special pbc system introduced...maybe bpc through agent LP rewards...
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In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
xEntriq
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Posted - 2006.04.27 19:06:00 -
[82]
HAC's are overpriced. I remember one time I got a Deimos for 60mil. No bs.
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Anal awereness
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Posted - 2006.04.27 22:04:00 -
[83]
any dev that can give an answer if they think hac prices are fine atm??
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are you aw3re? |
Anal awereness
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Posted - 2006.05.04 14:20:00 -
[84]
still waiting for response...
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are you aw3re? |
smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.04 14:26:00 -
[85]
I don't think your name is helping your case.
Kill this thread somebody 
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
madaluap
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:30:00 -
[86]
nevah!! 
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In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.05.09 11:03:00 -
[87]
i would assume with the new reserch system comining in, that they will double every BPO out there not only hacs but mods and the lot
reason is that tranq population has more than doubled in the last 18months or so
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen |
Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2006.05.09 13:39:00 -
[88]
Totally agree, since player base have drastically increased more T2 BPOs need to hit the market
signature removed, height restriction applies email the mods for more info - Vanamonde
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Cocyte
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Posted - 2006.05.09 15:12:00 -
[89]
Perhaps there is another solution... The main reason why the HACs are so scarse is due to production time. Why not also working on this issue?
A change in the industrial system allowing to produce items faster at an increased component and ISK cost may be a solution (think overtime at the factories, and wasted components due to faster works leading to more mistakes)
The current BPo owner may be able to choose either to use the basic speed and keeping a high margin per item, or go with faster production with less margin per items, but overall better margin per production day...
If a lot of producer goes with the "worker union nightmare" job speed, then offer may become too large for the demand, leading to a price reduction, reducing their margins even more and giving an edge to the producers that used the basic speed.
If a lot of producers stay with the base speed, then the prices won't change much and the producers who decided to go on high production speed will reap some nice benefits.
For current T1 items, it won't change anything as the margins are too low to gain anything with faster production speed.
Perhaps someone may have another idea about it...
(and NO, I have no HAC BPo... not even a single T2 BPo offer in about 1.5 year of R&D... My crying on the corp channel each time a corpmate gets a T2 BPo are quite notorious :p )
-----
Cocyte.
Ex-lecturer of the University of Caille.
Fired after the disparition of a large part of the dean's stockpile of fine wines... |
madaluap
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Posted - 2006.05.09 15:21:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Cocyte
Perhaps there is another solution... The main reason why the HACs are so scarse is due to production time. Why not also working on this issue?
A change in the industrial system allowing to produce items faster at an increased component and ISK cost may be a solution (think overtime at the factories, and wasted components due to faster works leading to more mistakes)
The current BPo owner may be able to choose either to use the basic speed and keeping a high margin per item, or go with faster production with less margin per items, but overall better margin per production day...
If a lot of producer goes with the "worker union nightmare" job speed, then offer may become too large for the demand, leading to a price reduction, reducing their margins even more and giving an edge to the producers that used the basic speed.
If a lot of producers stay with the base speed, then the prices won't change much and the producers who decided to go on high production speed will reap some nice benefits.
For current T1 items, it won't change anything as the margins are too low to gain anything with faster production speed.
Perhaps someone may have another idea about it...
(and NO, I have no HAC BPo... not even a single T2 BPo offer in about 1.5 year of R&D... My crying on the corp channel each time a corpmate gets a T2 BPo are quite notorious :p )
Personally i rather have a BPC system that includes:
- Giving up R&D points for PBC, rather have 10X cerb-run than 1X rocketstuff or something (I know they arent in the same resarch area, but you get the point.)
- Tech 2 ships & items in the agent pool in the form of PBC
- Also updating bpo in comparising with playerbase growth
With this i guess hacs will cost around 80-100 mil..
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OW YEH BABEH, I GOT THE GLITTERS I GOT EM |
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