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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Nvali
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Posted - 2006.04.24 21:50:00 -
[31]
In the US, there are basically two "plastic tied to money" processing networks:
1) Credit cards. Merchant sends some #s to the processing network, bank reserves funds for the merchant and can provide a real-time response. There is amazingly little actual security involved in this system ; some security is achieved via rules that merchants may not store the "CID/CVV2/CVC2" or actual mag stripe swipe data anywhere, most security is achieved through laws making stealing card #s illegal.
2) PIN based debit cards. Merchant swipes card, user enters PIN into a trusted 'black box' device which encrypts it with a local key and sends it to the bank for decryption/verification, who reserves money and provides a real-time response. Security is excellent here because the PIN never leaves that one trusted device and the card is useless without the PIN, but all of the security relies on scanning that PIN so it flat out doesn't work without the swiping device.
In the US, most cards (> 70%) support both credit and debit networks. Your average person has a Visa or MC debit card (or 2 or 3), which can be used on either network - the difference is mostly whether you sign your name or enter a PIN. Merchants will push for you to use the PIN option because it is cheaper for them, unless it's card-not-present in which case they don't normally have that choice.
Now, to use a true debit card without a PIN, processing on the debit card network, it is necessary to get approval to do "PINless debit" - which is only available to power companies and the like. Reference, e.g.: http://www.digitaltransactions.net/newsstory.cfm?newsid=385
As for how a Maestro or Switch card is processed without a Visa/MasterCard logo - I have no idea. Must be either a 3rd processing option, some part of the CC network that I don't know about, or looser restrictions on PINless debit in other countries. Maybe somebody who knows more about it knows what the deal is, I don't deal with international plastic-tied-to-money much because my company only deals with U.S. products, so the most 'international' I generally get is Puerto Rico.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.24 21:54:00 -
[32]
Maestro/Switch cards also use the CVC2 system.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.24 22:10:00 -
[33]
Well, the only place I can't use a Switch/Meastro card online seems to be EVE. Which really makes my mind boggle tbh.
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Southern Kros
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Posted - 2006.04.25 00:06:00 -
[34]
I am not sure its CCP's fault that switch is not used. The card numbers and issue number for many Switch/Maestro cards is not the same standard as the majority of 16 digit credit card numbers from VISA/Mastercard.
I can use Switch for most if not all internet purchases in the UK but most American sites will not accept it.
Until Maestro renumber all their cards and remove the daft issue number then it will not be accepted in the same way as Visa/Mastercard are. I think some UK banks are in the process of doing it but not all.
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Just a forum alt for a 38mil SP carebear character.
Hey, its safer this way. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.25 00:46:00 -
[35]
Sigh.
Switch/Mastro cards in the last...what...3 years in the UK have had 16 figures, no issue number and a CCV2 number. Many places online only accept the "new"-style cards.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Gia Terra
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:08:00 -
[36]
I had this convo regarding Debit Cards with someone in Rookie Help yesterday.
He was of the impression CCP do not accept Debit Card's, which was new's to me seeing as I pay the sub with mine.
Also you give your card to a waiter/waitress at a restaurant right? So what's to stop him/her from writing down the card detail's once they've walked off with it.
They can then use those detail's over the phone, so your just as safe using a debit card for your subscription payment as you are paying for a night out at a restaurant.
Sure, lot's of people have Credit Card's .. but that's how you get into debt if your not careful with your spending.
CC someone can spend what I don't have, DC .. well, there's not a lot in the account i'm using for someone to try and buy something with anyway.
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Syrin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:19:00 -
[37]
The biggest issues with switch/maestro and visa electron is the fact its no proof of age, they can be given to children as young as 12/14. We dont except them in our online shop for this reason as they may buy age restricted material 
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Crumplecorn
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:33:00 -
[38]
I couldn't even be bothered reading the rabble about what's a safe/better method.
Internet=Credit Cards
If you do not have a credit card you do not get to complain about billing problems.
This is not an individual company thing, it is the nature of the Internet, so complaining won't do any good anyway.
Right and wrong are irrelevant, it is the way it is.
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Go here:
http://www.student.ru.nl/martindevillers/tk8_outgame.html |
Matrix Aran
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:54:00 -
[39]
Visa debit cards for the most part work for just about everything on the internet. I've been paying for prety much everything with one including eve so I have to ask why are there all these wild un-informed theories flying about? Everyone from Amazon.com, SOE, Blizzard, the tiny little online site where I buy calculators from all accept the card no problems.
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HI MOM -eris too |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:10:00 -
[40]
I can use my DD card any where on the net no probs here in the uk chip and pin is not even 3 months old as a compusler system.
The uk has all ways used signtures, you can use your DD card over the net with any uk compainy no problem.
The uk is how ever a very special place when it comes to things like this, for example you dont have to pay to have a bank account in the uk nor do you have to pay to have a credit card.
In the end each country in the eu may bbe very close geographicley they are far apart finacily (I have heard horror stories of uk peeps moving to france going over drawn by 50p and having there bank accounts closed until they put 50 p in.)
CC are prob just what people in iceland are used to and prob works out best for ccp, I know its a pain when paying for a computer game.
But in ccp's defense at least they make some alternative methods avvailbe.
Personally I only use my dd with uk compains and make sure i use my CC with forigners any way.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:27:00 -
[41]
 Originally by: Crumplecorn
I couldn't even be bothered reading the rabble about what's a safe/better method.
Internet=Credit Cards
If you do not have a credit card you do not get to complain about billing problems.
This is not an individual company thing, it is the nature of the Internet, so complaining won't do any good anyway.
Right and wrong are irrelevant, it is the way it is.
False. I'm yet to find an internet billing solution that won't accept my Visa debit card (as in, it has a Visa symbol on it, looks exactly like a credit card, has all the same data but debits direct from my account). Yes, this includes sites in the US. This is not a problem with debit cards, it's a problem specifically with Maestro and Electron, which for whatever reason are less widely-accepted than other debit cards
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Lyra VX
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:38:00 -
[42]
Any chance of a CCP response to this? We can only really speculate until we get one.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:47:00 -
[43]
It's probably linked to the fact that basically no online retailer supports Electron or Maestro... As to it being the "most used" type of Debit Card, in the US maybe, but certainly not in the UK. Over here everyone uses Visa/Mastercard debits which, guess what, work anywhere a credit card works :P The answer may just be to ask your bank for a better debit card.
It's probably also worth noting here that Visa Electron cards can be either debit or credit cards, again reinforcing the fact that this is not about credit vs debit, it's about Electron/Maestro vs everything else
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:47:00 -
[44]
Tbh, even if ccp suddenly decides to accept Mastero i'd still have issues as there one of the few games that uses a direct pay rather than a third party system for primary payment.
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Miara Saionji
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Posted - 2006.04.25 18:46:00 -
[45]
As an aside, in the UK (probably in other parts of Europe too) credit cards use exactly the same chip/PIN verification system as debit cards, and merchants are no longer protected against the cost of fraud if they are still using the old system for the more secure cards.
For those people with older cards which do not have the chip/PIN system built in, they of course still have to sign.
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Miara Saionji
Omerta Syndicate |
Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2006.04.25 18:48:00 -
[46]
Transaction fees at the clearing banks for maestro/switch/electron are also significantly higher than other credit/debit cards.
Exiles Recruitment |
Reite
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Posted - 2006.04.25 19:05:00 -
[47]
In norway we got a combination of debit and visa cards. I can use it in local shops, but then i have to type a pin, can also use it on the net with the card number.. It isnt a credit card though, its linked directly to my bank account.
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Arctic Angel
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Posted - 2006.04.25 19:32:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Arctic Angel on 25/04/2006 19:34:39
Ok...
1) Debit cards take the RL-iskies from your account
2) Credit cards bill the money from your account
Basically that's it. Banks issue credit cards and they've made all the arrangements with the CC providers for the authorization, chargeback etc. issues.
You might have millions of people using one banks debit card but you can also have 100's of millions people using some of the main brand credit cards. It's simple maths basically... And then if you select to go with one debit card, why can't you approve another? How many different kinds of debit cards are there in the world compared to credit cards?
There's your answer..
Edit: To make it more clearer, each payment method NOT supported by the 3rd party that handles the payments needs to be integrated separately. And from experience I can tell you it's no small task. Paypal, worldpay etc. only provide a small subset - but the most used - credit cards (and maybe some debit cards too).
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Jags4ever
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Posted - 2006.04.25 19:36:00 -
[49]
Meastro is a Europe-wide standard for debit cards. However the issue is that CC provide protection to CCP and the card issuer if used fraudulently wheres as debit cards do not.
Personally I would never use a DC online due to teh lack of fraud protection on them. At least with a CC you can wait 56 days withotu paying for it 
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Andrue
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Posted - 2006.04.25 20:49:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
Transaction fees at the clearing banks for maestro/switch/electron are also significantly higher than other credit/debit cards.
I thought Switch was free now but I could be wrong.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.25 21:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jags4ever
Meastro is a Europe-wide standard for debit cards. However the issue is that CC provide protection to CCP and the card issuer if used fraudulently wheres as debit cards do not.
Personally I would never use a DC online due to teh lack of fraud protection on them. At least with a CC you can wait 56 days withotu paying for it
I'm pretty sure that Visa give the same protections on all Visa cards, credit or debit. And yes, Maestro is a Europe-wide standard, but equally OpenGL is an industry-wide standard. Neither has anything like the usage (in the UK at least) of Visa/DirectX.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.25 22:08:00 -
[52]
Um...Joerd Toastius...
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/60365.html
Debit Cards > Cash, let alone Debit cards > Credit Cards in the UK.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.25 22:17:00 -
[53]
Yup, and the majority of those debit cards will be vanilla Visa or Mastercard.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.25 22:25:00 -
[54]
Sigh.
The "Vanilla" Mastercard debit card IS Maestro!
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.25 22:32:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 25/04/2006 22:32:53
In which case I apologise, and you can strike "Mastercard" off that list. It doesn't entirely surprise me, as I don't know anyone with either a Mastercard or a Maestro.
The point still stands though, that Visa is (afaik) far more widely used that Maestro is.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.25 22:37:00 -
[56]
And afaik as best I can tell by the issuing banks and their subscribers, Maestro must be far more widespread than Electron/Delta. Also, frex I know with Lloyds TSB that they offer you "an Electron debit card at first, with an upgrade to Maestro later". Mostly because I use them for my banking.
The actual figures are only in expensive market reports though.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.04.25 22:42:00 -
[57]
I have a Lloyds TSB Visa debit card. Go figure.
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Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2006.04.25 23:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
Transaction fees at the clearing banks for maestro/switch/electron are also significantly higher than other credit/debit cards.
I thought Switch was free now but I could be wrong.
Sorry for confusion - to clarify, I meant retailer side, not customer side.
Exiles Recruitment |
Gia Terra
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Posted - 2006.04.26 12:16:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
I have a Lloyds TSB Visa debit card. Go figure.
When I was with Lloyds all my cards where Visa as well, both the CC and DC.
In fact, every bank card i've ever had has been a Visa.
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Hunters Presence
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Posted - 2006.04.26 12:33:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Hunters Presence on 26/04/2006 12:35:11
Quote:
Well, the only place I can't use a Switch/Meastro card online seems to be EVE. Which really makes my mind boggle tbh.
Ditto. Even most American sites accept Maestro as a valid form of payment nowadays. Certainly, EvE is the only MMO I know (that doesn't have 'adult content') where you're forced to use a credit card.
Not accepted Debit Cards was initially the biggest factor behind my not playing EvE at first, until my step dad finally relented and let me use his card. It's also the reason I'm not an EON subscriber and why I don't buy EvE merchandise.
I'm nineteen, I just have no other reason to get a credit card! I'm not getting a credit card purely for the purpose of EvE.
For the record: I know at least three people interested in playing EvE who can't play because of the credit card requirement.
I wonder why CCP don't just use paypal (directly)... it's incredibly easy for a business to set up and use.
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Lead Games Programmer @ Quasit-Rushyo Games | Me! |
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