Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

Because veteran players have corporations that engage in certain activities. Noob training is not one of them.

And as you mentioned, there are Corporations that serve exactly that purpose.

That's why when you try to get a job they don't always handle your training.

It's a system, nothing more. You don't have to take it personal.

On one hand, you'll say new players can be a huge asset. People will list multiple ways a new player can have an impact. Yet alot of the corporations have minimum skill point requirements in the multi millions. The answer is to join one of the established new player helping corporations.

You say we're valuable, but then you show us we're not by not accepting us.

If you'll tell me that a new player should continue to play because he can influence and participate at any level, then why will they not be accpeting those new players?

So your words say "stick around", but your actions say "Your potential contribution isn't worth my time".

So your words say "stick around", but your actions say "Your potential contribution isn't worth my time".

Most people recommend new players to EVE-U and BNI because they know what they are doing, know how to get a new player started in game better than most other corps out there. A well established corp really doesn't want to take the time to train new players when they're working hard to maintain what they have got already. Why train your new players when someone can do it better than you can yourself?

It's like real life you know... you go to university before you get hired out by some big corp.

The past month I'd been told repeatedly that as a new player, everyone has a use.

As a child, there seems to be a large amount of parents who steer us young ones towards joining these schools.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential family to a standardized social services department.

Schools and Universities being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with educating the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off children and hope they transform into something you will be proud of later.

You want to have children, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and education. You just want to hand that responsibility off to schools and universities, make them do the hardwork so you can be proud of their labor.

Why will the parents of Earth argue that they want children, but then put forth no effort towards educating those children, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should children want to take part in a family of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

It's kind of funny how easily people in this game flip the switch between proper and improper real life comparisons

Alright cool thanks for the information.

The past month I'd been told repeatedly that as a new player, everyone has a use.

But apparently that's not the case. There have been multiple explanations in this thread alone as to why people don't want to waste their time with new people, so I guess it's understandable if new people decide it's not worth wasting their time for people who don't want to reciprocate.

Thanks for taking the time to answer! Much appreciated.

So your words say "stick around", but your actions say "Your potential contribution isn't worth my time".

On one hand, you'll say new players can be a huge asset. People will list multiple ways a new player can have an impact. Yet alot of the corporations have minimum skill point requirements in the multi millions. The answer is to join one of the established new player helping corporations.

You say we're valuable, but then you show us we're not by not accepting us.

If you'll tell me that a new player should continue to play because he can influence and participate at any level, then why will they not be accpeting those new players?

So your words say "stick around", but your actions say "Your potential contribution isn't worth my time".

Alright cool thanks for the information.

The past month I'd been told repeatedly that as a new player, everyone has a use.

But apparently that's not the case. There have been multiple explanations in this thread alone as to why people don't want to waste their time with new people, so I guess it's understandable if new people decide it's not worth wasting their time for people who don't want to reciprocate.

Thanks for taking the time to answer! Much appreciated.

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

Because this is a game people play to have fun. It is not a work, and you are not paid to do it. Some people like to play with likeminded old players and dont have any need/social skill/interest in interacting with new players. Others have a good time teaching new players. Personally I used to like teaching new players. Now several years after, I dont have as much time as I got a full time job, and as part of my job is teaching, having to spend hours of my free sparse spare time teaching instead of having fun is not really what I pay for and mainly feels like work for me. With that said I have had several good conversations with new players, and have given plenty of advise. But there is a long way from that to making a corp/alliance to teach them.

BNI seems to be trying to get rid off their feeder/training alliance image (at least angry BNI members flame me every time I bring it up).

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Thats because they are no feeder alliance. They-¦re not there to train people so they leave and join more serious ones.

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

They picked a pretty stupid name for their corporation then, because all the name Brave Newbies says to me is newb corporation.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

Your words say, "have fun!", but your actions say "GTFO"

So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.

So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?

Your words say, "have fun!", but your actions say "GTFO"

You seem to be looking for a one word answer which sums up the opinion of the entire community, although do you not realise that this is a silly and naive way of thinking? Just like in real life many people who play eve will give you different answers and have differing opinions.

Also you didn't answer the previous question I asked in my last post. What exactly are you looking for?

Alright cool thanks for the information.

The past month I'd been told repeatedly that as a new player, everyone has a use.

But apparently that's not the case. There have been multiple explanations in this thread alone as to why people don't want to waste their time with new people, so I guess it's understandable if new people decide it's not worth wasting their time for people who don't want to reciprocate.

Thanks for taking the time to answer! Much appreciated.

Don't bother. Shortly after I posted my little wall of text I realized who OP was, and regretted posting. Look through his posting history. It's nothing but "I'm supposedly a newbie, but act as a bittervet, I hate this game, and I hate you all". That's Divine Entervention for you.

So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.

So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

People recommend BNI and RvB becasue they have a reputation for being fun corps where you can participate (as opposed to being sent out mining all day) with low skills.

There's no political ramifications. It's a closed room where the effects do not reverberate outward, only within. If it's possible for a new player to join those corporations and enjoy the game from day 1, then due to being within the same game, it should also be possible for new players to join politically active corporations and also experience the feeling of contribution, a more meaningful sense of contribution because of it's impact.

So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.

So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?

I'm beginning to suspect that the OP isn't here to play Eve at all, he's here to play the forums instead. Virtually every post is designed to infuriate or inflame others.

Well thanks for clarifying.

Being new you see the huge scope of the game and realize it will be hard to find a place to make the game feel meaningful through your contribution.

Then you ask people for direction and are told that you can make an impact from the beginning, get involved right away, one of the positives of the game not being level based.

But you've more than explained how a new person isn't to expect to get involved in things that would be meaningful. I guess the only initial appeal of the game is suppose to be the novelty of flying space ships, and not the fact that game is advertised as a levelless FFA sandbox. That's suppose to hold you over for the year to reach the 15mil SP corporations so you can begin experiencing impact game play has on a "single shard" with player controlled politics and territory.

EVE-U and BNI are essentially day care.

But you've more than explained how a new person isn't to expect to get involved in things that would be meaningful.

Don't bother. Shortly after I posted my little wall of text I realized who OP was, and regretted posting. Look through his posting history. It's nothing but "I'm supposedly a newbie, but act as a bittervet, I hate this game, and I hate you all". That's Divine Entervention for you.

Even better, check his killboard and it will rapidly become apparent what he actually is.

Seriously, Divine: why do you keep pretending to be a noob in these troll threads of yours? Or if you are a noob, why not post with your main instead of your FW plexing bot alt?

Well I am a noob. I did alot of farming in FW because I was informed of how it was incredibly lucrative, which it was.

your perception of the game is screwed that's why you are screwed and bored.

Somehow I don't think he isn't bored at all.

I suspect he views the forum as a form of pvp he can currently win. To be honest, he's been beating a lot of us here. He keeps ignoring opinions and frustrating everyone.

He's doing exactly what many of us do in game.

Assuming there is no underlying psychological issue, forum killboard wise, he's way ahead of anyone else here at the moment. He has slayed us dead several times in the last couple of weeks.

The only one's more powerful have been the Concord equivalent, the ISDs. They've shut, trimmed and warned their way through several topics and are still standing. They have infinite hitpoints and perfect guns.

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

It's as valid a form of play as any other, so while farmers are given a lot of grief on the forum (they frustrate me at times too), there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as your style of play if it provides you what you want.

If others (including me at times) tear up about it, then your winning EvE on that point.

From all your (difficult) threads, it's fairly clear that you have higher aims than being a farmer forever, so don't bother if someone knocks you for it. Laugh at them and hide the tissues.

It just really sucks because it's such an easily abusable system. Like I fully understand what the purpose is. I'm "suppose" to take a ship to a complex and fight whoever shows up. I'm given alot of LP because I'm providing content and risking myself against an unknown variable and it's expected I should die alot. But that doesn't happen. For every merlin I lost which was around 400k, I captured 3 sites averaging like 10 million, all while providing next to zero content.

I just couldn't do it anymore. I figured out how to be, and even was for a bit "that guy", but having been him, it's not what and who I want to be. Ultimately, I want to contribute to everyone's enjoyment, not just my own. Abusing FW LP farming, while entirely possible, should be avoided.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Exactly the same premise regarding people who choose to attack people in game to "harvest their tears". Being "that guy" makes you exactly that, "that guy".

I'm better than that. I'll make mistakes, sure. But upon learning them, I'll do my best to make sure I avoid it as much as possible.

A choice is a choice if it effects other people. Basically the entire premise of convincing new people to play eve is centered around creating people who you can potentially kill, rather than people who you can potentially ally and enjoy the game with together. The EvE veteran player base is incredibly selfish. Not only do they have a ton of knowledge through experience, they also want to limit the interactiveness new players can enjoy by shuffling them off to baby sitter corporations and boarding schools.

dude, what have you done to me...

fck that, i won't admit that....

ill just walk away now....

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

It just really sucks because it's such an easily abusable system. Like I fully understand what the purpose is. I'm "suppose" to take a ship to a complex and fight whoever shows up. I'm given alot of LP because I'm providing content and risking myself against an unknown variable and it's expected I should die alot.

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

EVE-U and BNI are essentially day care.

Shut up and join.

I understand your point but consider this: If someone excels in a particular area of Eve why shouldn't they be the ones to handle it. If you had a heart condition requiring surgery you wouldn't want your regular family physician to perform it now would you? No... you ask for a referral to a specialist that is more knowledgeable and more experienced at what you need to handle the situation.

By referring new players to corps/alliances such as Eve Uni and Brave Newbies we are sending you to people who have not only the ability to train new players in the basics of Eve but they are far more experienced at it than say I would be. Sometimes I really don't get along well with others... that's normal... that's life. But because of that I know that I am not right for training other people. Sometimes there are still things that I don't even know. So should I subject a new player to my lack of experience when I can refer them to someone who can handle most if not all of the aspects of a game that I can't provide?

They are by no means the absolute authorities on the game or on training new players... but they have the experience to help new players past/through some of the pitfalls that come with learning a game like Eve which is as complex as it is vast. We refer you to them so you WILL want to stay because you have been trained by the "specialists."

As for the comment about them doing "the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor." Um... do you have any idea of the amount of work that the leaders of corps and alliances deal with to make them even remotely successful? I have been in the leadership of actively recruiting corps a few times... I would not wish that task on anyone ever. It can be an absolute nightmare with even the most experienced players. But to juggle all of that on top of being responsible for training new players in even the simplest of the games mechanics or gameplay just complicates it beyond belief.

So why not use the available assets of the Eve community... they advertise as new player friendly and actively recruit new players. There are corps out there that won't hesitate to mess with new players by joining them to their corps and blowing them up in their ships etc. So go to the ones who are trusted and be thankful they are there and that they are so highly recommended. Because they are the BEST at what they do.

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

Please grant me a Google internship a San Francisco loft and a mentor hand picked by me. I just completed an hour of coding on Khan Academy and I know I have great potential.

does this mean OP will be KOS by BNI? would be great.

Not specifically; Im not in a position to make that decision for either BNI or the Brave Collective alliance as a whole. For my corp, I might set him bad standing if I remember, but I probably wont. I have no problem shooting neutrals anyhow, and neither do the rest of us. If he shows up out here, he's likely to get popped.

How are noobs suppose to feel as though their time spent in game is meaningful if the majority of the game is saying otherwise through it's action of not wanting to associate and play with them?

I'm beginning to suspect that the OP isn't here to play Eve at all, he's here to play the forums instead. Virtually every post is designed to infuriate or inflame others.

E-Uni teaches you to blob and whine when you don't get the fight you expect, to complain about "broken mechanics" and never actually learn. You'll learn to make ISK, and that's about it.

[EUNI's] problem at the time was simply that they had too many engagement rules and too many operational rules. They were good rules for any corp that wants to survive in EVE.

I prefer BNI for lots of reasons, but EUNI had two things BNI doesn't: better information resources and better instruction.

Stuff

Let me quote their CEO when we dec'd them several years ago:

"Because you dec'd us without asking first, we will field enough Blackbirds to blot out the sun."

Of course, EUNI didn't bring a fight once, and when we went to their home system, they all hid. A solid two-hundred people hid from a ten-man gang of battlecruisers because they couldn't find the "proper FC".

And when we engaged their tower in whatever-the-system was, there was an immediate petition because we were griefing them, according to one of their directors.

Then there was the time when one could use the Dec Shield mechanic, which EUNI used to great effect in order to hide from actual fights. Raise the price high enough and no one would want to fight you. Or Kelduum's infamous quote about people should only be allowed to dec EUNI if EUNI wants them to.

I could go on and on, but Kelduum's and EUNI's reputation precedes them.

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach. That is the motto of any operator in the real world, and it holds true far more than people realize. EUNI prefers fights that are scripted; BNI will go out and pull the tail of the dragon without any regard for losses.

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach. That is the motto of any operator in the real world, and it holds true far more than people realize.

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

Because properly teaching people to be successful players is very hard. Most are not up to this task, to newbies are shunted to E-UNI or similar, which do "good enough" mass-teaching. That is, "good enough" by some peoples' definitions. The amount of bad lessons and habits I have had to un-teach to people who went through awful mass-teaching systems is ridiculous.

There are those of us who take the time to teach newbies in a more personal, smaller group (or even individual) setting, where the newbie is a participating, valuable member instead of just a face in the crowd. The people and corps dedicated to this simply cannot be of the size and prominence that "mass" corps like E-Uni or BNI can be. You have to look a bit harder. Start by talking to the people in the New Citizens Q&A forum. Not only do they have great advice, they know where the best places for newbies are.

Your dilemma is has a real world parallel:
- Newbie: "Where's a good place that I can get some delicious cake?"
- Bittervet: "Oh yeah, just go to Walmart, they have cake."
- Newbie: "WTF this cake is ****! I want good cake!"
Answer? Go find a smaller bakery that cares about quality over quantity. Same goes for corps and Eve tutoring.

Fun Fact #352357741-79b

I found it easier to get a alt into GSF then EVE Uni!

Though I do appreciate you taking your time to explain your points of view, I'd appreciate it if you kept your statements along the lines of discussing the fact that veterans will state they want new players in game, then erect a minimum skill point wall to avoid having to interact with them.

I'm fairly certain leveraging personal insults towards me for simply stating a different point of view other than your own is against this forum's rules.

Well thanks for clarifying.

Being new you see the huge scope of the game and realize it will be hard to find a place to make the game feel meaningful through your contribution.

Then you ask people for direction and are told that you can make an impact from the beginning, get involved right away, one of the positives of the game not being level based.

But you've more than explained how a new person isn't to expect to get involved in things that would be meaningful. I guess the only initial appeal of the game is suppose to be the novelty of flying space ships, and not the fact that game is advertised as a levelless FFA sandbox. That's suppose to hold you over for the year to reach the 15mil SP corporations so you can begin experiencing impact game play has on a "single shard" with player controlled politics and territory.

EVE-U and BNI are essentially day care.

As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?

Experts believe that is the definition of the word "troll".