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Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 10:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a idea i would like to present CCP an check if there may be followers in the eve community.
Money and time is a critical factor in game development. But as you can see in Star Citizen, the player community is willing to pay for content and development also. CCP is doing a lot, of course, and i appreciate the work they are doing. But in many ways its to slow, to focused on game balance and not on content. We also have just very little influence in using our own abilities to help creating this game and make it better.
So i suggest a crowed funded project tree for game developments, which mainly influence content and graphics (not balancing!). Let CCP or players make some suggestions which should be the next step, vote and set a limit for funding. if its reached, the project will be implemented.
I've a whole bunch of ideas which i would like to have:
00) a nice graphical drone interface which works like the one for weapons 01) dynamic and non-linear missions (not just "warp to and kill all" stuff with always the same number and type of rats, same environment, etc.) 02) walk in stations (wis), walk on planets (***) 03) planets with population, you'll have to take care for, bevor you can do pi or build a station on this planet (waste management, trade, infrastructure, defense, etc.) 04) starmaps wich you'll have to discover or buy from other players (incl. intel, not just hitting f10 for the starmap) 05) damage models for ships 06) crowded hangars in station with more than just your own ship 07) whole new kind of mining - its just boring at the moment 08) new and dynamic asteroid belts 09) better models for weapons. they just look like glued 10) modular ships (has nothing to do with balancing!) like t3 and better ;) 11) a long term story, driven by ccp, on the need to respond to the player 12) new spaces and regions to discover ...) a lot more
Give the community the opportunity to help, to create content and let us help making eve be Otherwise, I fear, star citizen will soon have more content, better ideas, more players and makes more fun than eve. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19874
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 11:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
I already pay for content and development. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Cavalira
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
295
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 11:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote: 01) dynamic and non-linear missions (not just "warp to and kill all" stuff with always the same number and type of rats, same environment, etc.) That's what PvP is for.
02) walk in stations (wis), walk on planets (***) They've already done some walking in stations, but it was met with huge opposition from the player base. Walking on planets sounds like the worst.
03) planets with population, you'll have to take care for, bevor you can do pi or build a station on this planet (waste management, trade, infrastructure, defense, etc.) If you want that, you could play Banished after you've taken care of your PI. You're a capsuleer. You're not a mayor of some scrub town.
04) starmaps wich you'll have to discover or buy from other players (incl. intel, not just hitting f10 for the starmap) Why?
05) damage models for ships When your hull gets low, you're on fire. The idea of shield and armor is to protect the ship itself, therefore there shouldn't be much damage applied to the hull itself before you enter structure.
10) modular ships (has nothing to do with balancing!) like t3 and better I doubt more ships would keep players in EVE for longer. After all, you have barely flown all the already existing ships.
11) a long term story, driven by ccp, on the need to respond to the player Why have a long term story driven by CCP, when the players have made history for the past 10 years in EVE? Just look at all the stuff that happens in nullsec.
|

Cannibal Kane
My Little Pony of the Apocalypse
3361
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 11:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:This is a idea i would like to present CCP an check if there may be followers in the eve community.
Money and time is a critical factor in game development. But as you can see in Star Citizen, the player community is willing to pay for content and development also. CCP is doing a lot, of course, and i appreciate the work they are doing. But in many ways its to slow, to focused on game balance and not on content. We also have just very little influence in using our own abilities to help creating this game and make it better.
So i suggest a crowed funded project tree for game developments, which mainly influence content and graphics (not balancing!). Let CCP or players make some suggestions which should be the next step, vote and set a limit for funding. if its reached, the project will be implemented.
I've a whole bunch of ideas which i would like to have:
00) a nice graphical drone interface which works like the one for weapons 01) dynamic and non-linear missions (not just "warp to and kill all" stuff with always the same number and type of rats, same environment, etc.) 02) walk in stations (wis), walk on planets (***) 03) planets with population, you'll have to take care for, bevor you can do pi or build a station on this planet (waste management, trade, infrastructure, defense, etc.) 04) starmaps wich you'll have to discover or buy from other players (incl. intel, not just hitting f10 for the starmap) 05) damage models for ships 06) crowded hangars in station with more than just your own ship 07) whole new kind of mining - its just boring at the moment 08) new and dynamic asteroid belts 09) better models for weapons. they just look like glued 10) modular ships (has nothing to do with balancing!) like t3 and better ;) 11) a long term story, driven by ccp, on the need to respond to the player 12) new spaces and regions to discover ...) a lot more
Give the community the opportunity to help, to create content and let us help making eve be Otherwise, I fear, star citizen will soon have more content, better ideas, more players and makes more fun than eve.
The noted difference? SC will not have a monthly fee so... EVE does. My accounts I pay for each months funds EVE development.
Think before you post.
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 11:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Everyone can pay as much as he wants for ideas he would like to have. There is no must. Thats a way to support CCP and to speed up development. If it works and perhaps if there is something you absolutely want, you'll also spend some money for implementation. We'll see ;)
I would do it in any case. |

knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 11:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let me help you with that...
Decoe DeTouront wrote:But as you can see in Star Citizen, the player community is willing to throw money at a guy with a track record of never delivering what he promised - let alone staying around until the end of development - and letting someone else deal with the fallout.
|

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 11:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
maybe. they're starting from the scratch. eve doesn't and thats a big advantage. nevertheless its an opportunity to get money for ccp and to get more content faster for players. everybody wins. much better than trying to get money from micro-payment **** like ship colors. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 12:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront, how much funding are you prepared to pay to this?
What is the specific figure of dollars/pounds/Euro you are willing to pay immediately? |

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 12:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
depends on the project. i would say up to 100Gé¼ - 200Gé¼. you think i'll get a ingame shirt for this? ;) |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 12:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:depends on the project. i would say up to 100Gé¼ - 200Gé¼. you think i'll get a ingame shirt for this? ;)
Then by all means, start a Kickstarter or other fund with your own 100-200euro right now. |

Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
243
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 12:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I already pay for content and development.
You all seem confused. The thread ended back there. ^ I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |

Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
184
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 12:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I already pay for content and development.
Ninja'd "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |

Mythrandier
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
354
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 12:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I already pay for content and development.
Cannot help but notice, you didn't say "for EvE online".
You are getting cynical Tippia :P
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --á D. Adams. |

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Then by all means, start a Kickstarter or other fund with your own 100-200euro right now.
Or, alternatively, and even better simply: subscribe 1-2 additional characters for a year.
Thereby you give CCP that same amount of money directly.
Go ahead, sub 2 accounts for a year :)
thats not the same. just the current stuff twice.
the idea is simple:
1) introduce some idea's/nice to have/project (from ccp or players) 2) player vote for project 3) project is implemented after a mark in funding has been reached
nothing more.
a nice way to get some of the best ideas and wishes come true and implemented. that's not a replacement of the usual and current rebalancing and development. just a addon ;) |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
240
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:thats not the same. just the current stuff twice.
the idea is simple:
1) introduce some idea's/nice to have/project (from ccp or players) 2) player vote for project 3) project is implemented after a mark in funding has been reached
nothing more.
a nice way to get some of the best ideas and wishes come true and implemented. that's not a replacement of the usual and current rebalancing and development. just a addon ;)
What a terrible idea.
The result would be utterly potentially game-destroying proposals possibly getting funded by people who don't care about the good of the game, just their own advantage, and then being implemented to "get the cash".
If you want to financially support CCPs game development, simply sub more accounts. |

Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
232
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
-1 |

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: What a terrible idea.
The result would be utterly potentially game-destroying proposals possibly getting funded by people who don't care about the good of the game, just their own advantage, and then being implemented to "get the cash".
If you want to financially support CCPs game development, simply sub more accounts.
thats nonesense. ccp still decides which project could be next, if the ressources (time, money) are available. currently they focus on the most important parts: mainly balancing, just few content. thats ok, cause there must be priorities.
this is an opportunity to speed things up. we provide ressources (means money and therefore time) to focus on other things, too. everyone who wants can support it. if you don't, nothing changes except that the game will be better in less time. so what?! |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
240
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Let me give you an example:
Proposal: Every player gets an automatic 600mil paid per month. 1000 people each donate 100euros to this (making those funds frozen to donators for the duration of the proposal).
So now there is a 100,000euro proposal with a completely ridiculous premise, dangling there with everyones money stuck in it, for CCP to either take it or not.
Meanwhile people are bitching that WHY WONT CCP TAKE MY MONEHS here and elsewhere because they have 100euros riding on it that they can't get back till the proposal duration ends.
Its utterly ********.
And do you expect CCP to be somehow legally bound to then make the proposed changes, specifically and to the letter, as outlined in the proposal? Why would they create such an enormous potential for legal disaster for themselves?
Whats to stop them just taking the money and thanks for the fish? Ironically, thats what would happen in EVE itself.
How about this. You can start your own proposal for this system, right now. Make a Kickstarter specific to this, and invest your own 200euros into it. Then see if anyone is even interested. If you can't raise a substantial amount even for the proposal for this system itself, then it stands to reason that it will fail in actual implementation anyways. Do you understand what I am saying? |

Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
18316
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cavalira wrote:They've already done some walking in stations, but it was met with huge opposition from the player base.
That, to me, seems more because it was horribly done and incredibly disappointing. CCP promised a lot and delivered next to nothing. Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
|

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
@Salvos Rhoska: rtfm.
1) ccp makes the proposal (players already have made suggestions > forum; these may be considerd for this also) for the next fundrising target 2) players vote for one of two (or three) 3) result is published 4) if the current fundrising target is hit, the next project is already announced
you'll always know what you're spending your money for, ccp always has the control of all the stuff. easy solution, isn't it? |

flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2089
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:maybe. they're starting from the scratch. eve doesn't and thats a big advantage. nevertheless its an opportunity to get money for ccp and to get more content faster for players. everybody wins. much better than trying to get money from micro-payment **** like ship colors.
'Hey thanks for paying us each month for your subscription wich we still have unlike most mmorpgs these days , we would however like you to donate us more cash if you want anything new besides some modifications left and right on the game as it currently is , thank you.'
Yup ,that'll work out splendid .... 
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2608
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:@Salvos Rhoska: rtfm.
1) ccp makes the proposal (players already have made suggestions > forum; these may be considerd for this also) for the next fundrising target 2) players vote for one of two (or three) 3) result is published 4) if the current fundrising target is hit, the next project is already announced
you'll always know what you're spending your money for, ccp always has the control of all the stuff. easy solution, isn't it? I don't think funding is the issue for development. And turning CCPs development cycle into some sort of vote driven community development program sounds truly terrible. This is mainly because everyone's vote is equal, while everyone ideas are not. In a vote driven system, a group of 10 screaming children will have more of a say than 2 professional game designers. This is why companies hire staff rather than just allowing the masses to make business decisions The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 14:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
it's not about game mechanic, balancing and so on. its about art, artwork, eye-candy, content (clothes, weapon-design, mission design, story telling) and stuff like this.
ccp may ask: "hey, for the next project, we would like to rework the hull-design or offer you more clothes for your char. or maybe should we work on station interior first?"
i can't see any problem with this.
and again: this should NOT replace the current development process and cycle. its an opportunity to support ccp with nice-to-have, low priority projects. and thats good for everyone. if you'll participate or not. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
243
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 14:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:i can't see any problem with this.
There are problems with every system. Nothing is perfect. If you can't see any potential problems you are either not looking hard enough, or through rose-colored lenses.
Metaphoric as that is, what it concretely means is that just because you personally are not able to perceive any problems with it, does not mean that there are no problems with it, objectively (many of which are being pointed out to you by others, but which you still perceive as "not a problem" though they clearly do perceive them as a problem). |

Decoe DeTouront
The Scope Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 14:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
yeah. of course. you're the only one with perspective.
go and have a look at: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals. it works. and there are people who pay for something whitch even does not exist in a useable version. 40 mio dollar are enough to pay 16 developer 10 years 250k each.
there are two ways to get a faster development for eve. first, everyone pays more each month. some players can't, some players won't do that. but risking your playerbase for this would be stupid. on the other hand, there are some guys who love this game so much that they are willing to spend some more for development. especially if they know what for. there's no risk, just opportunity for everyone. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19891
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 14:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:yeah. of course. you're the only one with perspective. GǪwhich, of course, he didn't say. He just (entirely correctly) said that if you can't see any problems, it's because you're not looking. It doesn't say anything about his perspective or everyone else's lack thereof GÇö only about yours.
GǪwhich, incidentally, is probably how long it would take to get the game out in that case.  Also, what they're doing there isn't what you're suggesting. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3055
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 14:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
I estimate I have spent $1000 on Eve so far across all my accounts. Why do I need to spend more again?
CCP does not lack for funding. The number of subscriptions are increasing, PLEX sales are going up, and they're piloting ship skins to get even more delicious cash from customers (which I strongly suspect will be very successful). Considering CCP has the spare money to throw on development for secondary products (Valkyrie, WoD, and to some degree, DUST 514), I would say they're in a pretty good spot.
Believe it or not, in software development, "throw more money at it" is not a reasonable solution for getting stuff done. Software developers are not highway construction workers. You can't double your workforce and expect productivity to double. In fact, doubling your workforce might cause overall productivity to go down, since it is very disruptive to have a lot of people who don't know how anything in the system works.
Before proposing massive changes to CCP's development process, you should educate yourself on how it currently works (best guess at the methodology based on available resources).
Decoe DeTouront wrote:Otherwise, I fear, star citizen will soon have more content, better ideas, more players and makes more fun than eve.
Oh, really? So... SC will have:
- One unsharded universe in which your actions can impact anyone and everyone else? No, it will have multiple servers, with the potential of "private" servers
- Almost no rules on what player interaction is appropriate, setting emergent content free? No, they will have individual server moderation and rules.
- Battles featuring thousands and thousands of people? No. As far as I've seen the best you'll get is an instanced organized 16 vs 16 or so fight.
- Unbound PvP? No. Restricted "PvP zones". Have fun with that.
- Content requiring tens or hundreds of people working together? No. NPCs stand in where players lack.
- Realistic development goals? Absolutely not. Star Citizen will cut corners in entirely new and interesting ways, and I'm curious to see what they are.
- An extensive huge industry system? Nope. Just no.
- A free player-controlled economy? No. The economy is explicitly not player controlled.
Eve has all these things.
So what will it have?
- Painted spaceships.
- First person combat sim in space which will likely be nigh-unplayable in PvP. Try Freespace 2 multiplayer sometime, or flying a fighter in Planetside 2.
- First person ground combat sim on a smaller budget than simplified non-simulator shooters like Half-Life 2. Don't expect a simulator, expect a rudimentary shooter.
- Painted spaceships.
- DLC and expansion packs.
- Painted spaceships.
Stop comparing SC to Eve. The only thing they have in common is they both have spaceships in their games. You don't see people comparing WoW to Skyrim because they both have swords and orcs involved. Even if SC fulfills all its starry-eyed promises and doesn't cause an outrage of heartbreak and buyer's remorse (spoiler: it won't), Eve still has nothing to fear because it is based on fundamentally different underlying concepts.
Rifterlings - newbie-friendly swashbuckling corp ("weflyrifters" in-game channel). Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
243
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Others have said it more eloquently, but the SC comparison is invalid.
The game does not yet, for all intents and purposes, exist. Meaning that in order for it to one day to exist, and from the existance of which they can derive funds in subs etc, they have to look to other optiins now, for funding, in order to actually get to that point of a finished product/service.
EVE, however, exists. And you can and should fund their further development of EVE, by funding the game itself ie: buying stuff from CCP such as account time, plex, AUR or whatever. The more you do that, the kore profitable EVE is for CCP, and the more funds will reciprocally be invested into development of EVE since it is such a good earner, in small part thanks to you for example subbing 2 accounts for a year for around 200e. |

Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
906
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Decoe DeTouront wrote:Everyone can pay as much as he wants for ideas he would like to have. There is no must. Thats a way to support CCP and to speed up development. If it works and perhaps if there is something you absolutely want, you'll also spend some money for implementation. We'll see ;)
I would do it in any case.
If you don't feel that what you already pay for your subscription is enough, you can buy as many PLEX as you want. If you have too many PLEX or feel guilty about accepting imaginary assets for the money that you have paid for development, you can give them to me and I promise I will put them to good use developing player-generated content for the benefit of the community. everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3056
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Haedonism Bot wrote:Decoe DeTouront wrote:Everyone can pay as much as he wants for ideas he would like to have. There is no must. Thats a way to support CCP and to speed up development. If it works and perhaps if there is something you absolutely want, you'll also spend some money for implementation. We'll see ;)
I would do it in any case. If you don't feel that what you already pay for your subscription is enough, you can buy as many PLEX as you want. If you have too many PLEX or feel guilty about accepting imaginary assets for the money that you have paid for development, you can give them to me and I promise I will put them to good use developing player-generated content for the benefit of the community. Hey, that's an idea. Kickstarter for player-generated content, paid in PLEX. Followed, of course, by grabbing the plex, transferring it to another character, and biomassing.
See? Player-generated content! Rifterlings - newbie-friendly swashbuckling corp ("weflyrifters" in-game channel). Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
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