| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Magnus Thermopyle
   |
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:18:00 -
[1]
As most know, Raven (and Navy Raven) is the number one choise for level 4 missions. Sure, you can use other BS, but the raven is the fastest to kill with and has the best tank.
Take the domi for example. Its pretty decent for missions, but it still lacks several things that the raven has:
- t2 rail ammo is worthless for missions, while t2 missile ammo works very well for missions
- there is no faction domi available
- the cap useage on the domi is much higher due to the insane amount of cap rails require, while the raven has 0 cap weapons, and cat fit 2 NOSes with its 6 weapons.
- you can switch damagetype on raven easier (you can switch it somewhat on domi as well by using different drones, but still).
So is CCP going to balance this, preferably by boosting some stats on the non-caldari BSes? I personally run level 4 missions in a domi with my alt, but it annoys me that one BS should be so much better than everything else when it comes to missions. There isnt even a faction domi available, while there are 2 faction ravens (I consider rattlesnake to be faction raven).
|
LWMaverick
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:21:00 -
[2]
No, things will never get balanced with pve in mind like youre suggesting.
Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!! |
Twilight Moon
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:29:00 -
[3]
No-ones forcing you to buy a Raven. Dont become one of the sheep and just buy one befause its the "easy mode" button. Do it in your prefered ship and feel satisfied that you arent a sell-out.
|
Mable
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:30:00 -
[4]
What's wrong with Dominix? I read some posts where people went to level 4 missions in Dominix, running tank and weapons infinite (I cannot run Shield booster infinite). And with Drones you can switch Damage easily, rails do kinetic and thermal, two damage types the most NPC's are vulnerable to. Dominix is cheaper than Raven, and much more cheaper than Navy Raven. You don't need Tech II Ammo for level 4 missions (Tech II Launcher will help a lot, but they also help for Dominix). Domoinix is tier 1 BS, and u can run Level 4 Missions with it, but u r whining that it is less effective than a Tier 2 BS. Try to run Missions with a Scorpion, u will fail for harder missions. Raven is bad in Fleet Battles at long range because of travel time of missiles, but it's ok for Missions. Megathron is bad for missions, but very good for Fleet Battles (or with blasters for smaller gank squads). Every Ship has it's Role where it is better than others, don't start to make all equal.
|
LWMaverick
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:34:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Mable
What's wrong with Dominix?
I read some posts where people went to level 4 missions in Dominix, running tank and weapons infinite (I cannot run Shield booster infinite).
And with Drones you can switch Damage easily, rails do kinetic and thermal, two damage types the most NPC's are vulnerable to.
Dominix is cheaper than Raven, and much more cheaper than Navy Raven. You don't need Tech II Ammo for level 4 missions (Tech II Launcher will help a lot, but they also help for Dominix).
Domoinix is tier 1 BS, and u can run Level 4 Missions with it, but u r whining that it is less effective than a Tier 2 BS.
Try to run Missions with a Scorpion, u will fail for harder missions.
Raven is bad in Fleet Battles at long range because of travel time of missiles, but it's ok for Missions.
Megathron is bad for missions, but very good for Fleet Battles (or with blasters for smaller gank squads).
Every Ship has it's Role where it is better than others, don't start to make all equal.
My eyes, my eyes!!!!11111
Pres the enter button from time to time please  (like i did in the quote)
Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!! |
Dampfschlaghammer
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:35:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dampfschlaghammer on 25/04/2006 15:36:15
Arent defenders a bit of a problem for Raven in complexes and missions? I heard good things about the Machariel for PvE, as it doesnt suffer this problem.
And I dont think its overpriced looking at the faction stuff raven pilots put in their ships. But I am a noob when it comes to missions so feel free to correct me.
|
Leandro Salazar
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:40:00 -
[7]
I am flying all races BBs in lvl4 mission except for the Raven. Until recently I thought I was doing fine as the missions went by fast and with the proper setup and strategy could be tanked easily enough. But then a corpmate of mine joined me with a Raven and showed me just how good it really is for missioning. And a few days ago I finally succumbed to the dark side. Caldari cruiser IV finishes tonight and tomorrow I will join the ranks of the Raven-runners too :/
Though for some Blood/Sansha missions I will probably stick to Apoc/Tempest/Typhoon for better tank vs EM/Therm.
___________________________________
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Uther Doull
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:40:00 -
[8]
the problem with the raven are these:
it's tank will not get in the way of it's dmg setup.
it's weapons do not need cap so all power can go into the tank.
it has the ability to do all it's dmg to the worst resistance of the rats (while projectiles change range and total dmg on ammo types, and do 2 or 3 types instead of just 1).
precision cruise wtf pwn small ships.
in the end tho i don't really care as long as all races are reasonably balanced for pvp, the only thing i think needs changing are precisions tbh.
|
Magnus Thermopyle
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:43:00 -
[9]
I agree that PvP should be the main focus when balancing ships, but that is no reason why ships cant be balanced for PvE as well (I am a PvP player myself).
Even if you removed 2 highslots from Raven but let it keep the 6 missile hardpoints, it would still be the best for missions. Thats how much better the Raven is compared to other non-faction BSes.
|
Hotice
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 15:44:00 -
[10]
Honestly, besides the Minmatar battleships, every other race can do missions well enough. Navy raven isn't all that good compare to other faction battleships. It might require less skill points to be effective but at the end, it doesn't matter much. People don't stop training because they fly ravens. As skill point increases, other battleships start to catch up. So the net difference isn't all that big. Personaly, I pick navy apoc, bhaalgorn, zealot, ishtar, and vagabond over navy raven any day for lvl 4 missions. I just hate to deal with stocking missiles during long missions.
As your example used domi:
1. Domi main weapon is drone not it's guns.
2. It is a tier 1 battleship, no other races have faction version either.
3. I never had problem with cap on Domi, it can use heavy nos you know. Not even bonus stage angel extrav. can break my domi. What cap issue? Megathron on the other hand indeed have cap problem and serious cpu problem.
4. Domi can switch damage type as well. T2 heavy drones do serious damage at your choosen. 5 of them can break the Vengeance mission final boss within 60 seconds.
At the end, raven is the end all and be all ship. You really need to learn how to fly your ship to the max.
|
|
|
BoinKlasik
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 16:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle
I agree that PvP should be the main focus when balancing ships, but that is no reason why ships cant be balanced for PvE as well (I am a PvP player myself).
Even if you removed 2 highslots from Raven but let it keep the 6 missile hardpoints, it would still be the best for missions. Thats how much better the Raven is compared to other non-faction BSes.
what and make it just about the only tier 2 bs with less than 8 highs? those 2 slots get nos/tractorbeam, bloody useful and ofc there is still the option to put rails in there no?
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries*
this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris
Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr!  ~kieron
Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler
The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 16:17:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Harry Voyager on 25/04/2006 16:20:32
Originally by: BoinKlasik
Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle
I agree that PvP should be the main focus when balancing ships, but that is no reason why ships cant be balanced for PvE as well (I am a PvP player myself).
Even if you removed 2 highslots from Raven but let it keep the 6 missile hardpoints, it would still be the best for missions. Thats how much better the Raven is compared to other non-faction BSes.
what and make it just about the only tier 2 bs with less than 8 highs? those 2 slots get nos/tractorbeam, bloody useful and ofc there is still the option to put rails in there no?
He is just using that to illustrate how large the performance disparity is, not seriously proposing it, as well as how a change in the ship config that strongly alters its PvP performance does not compairably alter its PvE performance.
On that note, I rather suspect the reason the Raven is so PvE dominant at the moment is because 9/10th of mission encounters are against frigate and Cruiser size ships, which the Raven is very strong against. Were the NPC distribution shifted away from frigates and cruisers to more heavy battleships, then you would see the Raven becom a less and less desirable choice as a mission runner, simply due to the limited raw damage output of the Cruise Missile Raven.
Harry Voyager
|
BoinKlasik
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 16:30:00 -
[13]
but then you get the glorious torp raven.
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries*
this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris
Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron
Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler
The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
|
Amerame
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 16:35:00 -
[14]
Balanced does not mean equal in all situations, else why bother making different races ? Some ships are better under certain circumstances, some ships are better in others. Raven is good for solo PvE, fine.
T2 ammos for PvE ? wtf are you talking about, you will lose money by using them, those ammos are meant for pvp.
There is no faction domi because there is no faction scorpion, there are 2 faction megathrons.
|
Magnus Thermopyle
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 16:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Magnus Thermopyle on 25/04/2006 16:38:06
For missions in a domi or mega, its not even good to use t2 rails due to the huge increase in cap. Its better to use good named ones like prorotype, and use an extra magstab, since the t2 ammo isnt useful anyway.
I wonder how the Raven mission runners would react if CCP made t2 cruise missile launchers so bad that they had to use arbalest instead? 
|
Leandro Salazar
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 16:37:00 -
[16]
Have you seen what Javelin torps do to cruisers? It ain't pretty... From what I have seen, it is indeed the torp Raven that dominates lvl4 missions, not the cruise one. The only way to somewhat nerf it I can see is making BCUs midslot items, but I don't see that happening.
___________________________________
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Foomanshoe
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 17:08:00 -
[17]
Are you high?
Apoc is awesome mission runner especially if your doing amarr agents.
Using T2 ammo for missions is an insane waste of money
Missiles already suck against NPCs (at least compared to how they used to be).
Dont like ravens, Dont use it. Dominix is perfectly fine for missions, so is megathron, tempest, typhoon and apoc.
_______________________________________________
Deadspace For Dead space!
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
|
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 17:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle
I agree that PvP should be the main focus when balancing ships, but that is no reason why ships cant be balanced for PvE as well (I am a PvP player myself).
Even if you removed 2 highslots from Raven but let it keep the 6 missile hardpoints, it would still be the best for missions. Thats how much better the Raven is compared to other non-faction BSes.
Balancing PvP and PvE? Impossible...
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
SengH
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 17:22:00 -
[19]
Minnie BSes need the most love with reguards to pve. Rogue drone missions especially, the tempest will get BBQed trying to do it with any standard fitting. The phoon requires an insane amount of SP to do it, requiring tech II guns, missiles and drones.
|
babylonstew
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 17:24:00 -
[20]
funny, i stopped using a raven for missions a long timw ago, been flying cerbs instead becos its faster 
and as a side note, i have used a machariel, and all other race bs for missions, apart form phoon and scorp, they all work reasonbly well, alltho the mega wasnt too hot tbh.
i prefer the cerb over all other ships, even the boss on vengeance dies pretty quick now i know how to beat him
|
|
|
Dark PIne
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 18:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: babylonstew
funny, i stopped using a raven for missions a long timw ago, been flying cerbs instead becos its faster
Are you talking about level 4 missions? How do you beat the battleships' tanks like Pith Extinguisher?
Originally by: Maya Rkell
1v1, for BS, is an abberant situation and you must not balance for it.
|
madaluap
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 18:44:00 -
[22]
Edited by: madaluap on 25/04/2006 18:45:16
Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle
- there is no faction domi available
you do like to turn me on, dont ya 
/edit: make it black, make it black!
_________________________________________________
In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
Golden Jenni
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 18:48:00 -
[23]
its a cerberus. they do over 600dps with maxed skills
|
Sluggers
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 18:51:00 -
[24]
There are two faction versions of the megathron, there are two faction versions of the raven. Seems pretty fair to me.
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 19:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Golden Jenni
its a cerberus. they do over 600dps with maxed skills
no it doesnt.. try half that
------
FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Kel Shek
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 19:45:00 -
[26]
Quote:
- t2 rail ammo is worthless for missions, while t2 missile ammo works very well for missions
so what?
faction Domi... yeah, thats annoying, but not a huge deal.
cap usage... uhh, so? why the hell would you actually use large guns on a mission dominix?
damage type... you can switch damage types at will as well. its just slightly slower in some situations(waiting for the drones to return)
remember the drones ARE the dominix's primary weapons...
between Dominix and raven I don't see the problem. I got the impression Amarr BS's have some issues sometimes with doing enough damage, and haven't heard much about minm ships's preformance in missions...
/me rather have a rogue drone Dominix than a serpentis/Fed Navy one.
drone control bonus instead of damage bonus would be good too!
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Furion35
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 22:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kel Shek
drone control bonus instead of damage bonus would be good too!
|
Beringe
|
Posted - 2006.04.25 23:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Foomanshoe
Using T2 ammo for missions is an insane waste of money
I'd like to reiterate this.
Anyone who's use javelin torps or precision cruise for missions is seriously cutting into their profits. I know that time = isk, but these missiles are getting more expensive if anything.
-------------------------------------------
"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.04.26 03:56:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 26/04/2006 03:58:43
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Have you seen what Javelin torps do to cruisers? It ain't pretty... From what I have seen, it is indeed the torp Raven that dominates lvl4 missions, not the cruise one. The only way to somewhat nerf it I can see is making BCUs midslot items, but I don't see that happening.
I want lowslot Ewar then.
Originally by: Dark PIne
Originally by: babylonstew
funny, i stopped using a raven for missions a long timw ago, been flying cerbs instead becos its faster
Are you talking about level 4 missions? How do you beat the battleships' tanks like Pith Extinguisher?
I won't explain how the cerb can do it, I'll just tell you that a Ferox can solo the lvl 4 duo of death 1.25mil BSes
once those annoying-ass spider drones are dead you can kill the cruise turrets and BSes without warping out to regen. Passive Ferox ftw.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Benglada
|
Posted - 2006.04.26 06:10:00 -
[30]
Get your ******* drone skills up. I tank/kill 6/10s in my domi. No guns just drones
---------------------------
Originally by: Wrangler
Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote.. 
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |