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dadar
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.03.14 00:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
ok I keep reading these forums and the top people keep quoting that sp doesn't matter trial accounts can own people on day 1 yada yada yada I am wondering just who there owning haulers mining barges I know there not owning skilled pvp pilots.
if this is truly the case then why do all pvp corps have requirement from 1 to 20 mil sp. if sp doesn't matter then there should be no requirements
I am thinking the truth is sp does matter up until a certain point and these min requirements represents that starting point if spent in right area's |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1481
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Usually because it proves you've played the game for a certain amount of time and have shown an interest in the topic.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
dadar
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.03.14 00:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Usually because it proves you've played the game for a certain amount of time and have shown an interest in the topic.
that doen't make sense I have an account with 10 mil sp that I have't played a single day just log in add skills to que log out. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
630
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Can you link to a post showing someone saying that a day 1 character can go around owning others?
My recollection of most of the posts is that the overwhelming view of experienced players is that every character can be useful from day 1.
There is a difference between being useful and owning others.
Aside from other new players and characters, a day 1 character is not going to own anyone. But there is a lot that a new character can do that is useful both to themselves (eg. complete all of the tutorial missions, which takes several days) and to others as part of a group.
Also, not all Corps have a minimum skillpoint requirement.
Many do, because skillpoints provide flexibility and Corps want to know that someone they accept can fit in.
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1482
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
dadar wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Usually because it proves you've played the game for a certain amount of time and have shown an interest in the topic. that doen't make sense I have an account with 10 mil sp that I have't played a single day just log in add skills to que log out.
You described the most extreme edge case imaginable, very few people would do this.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
4995
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Posted - 2014.03.14 00:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Can you link to a post showing someone saying that a day 1 character can go around owning others?
Here's one.
My favourite was one where two players got day-old characters in Rifters and went to make a video about it. I just can't remember where it is.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
432
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Minimum SP avoids spies, not entirely but it reduces the problem a bit.
Its also not just how much SP but where it is put that counts.
The vast majority of new players either train up entirely for mining or get obsessed with fast tracking to a battleship or T3 as soon as possible. Whereas in fact a new player can be in a tackling covops Astero in 4 weeks and an interceptor, covops or assault frigate (tho probably not all three at once) in 6 weeks. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
630
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
That's a link to a YouTube video, not a forum post.
Great video though.
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
dadar
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.03.14 00:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Can you link to a post showing someone saying that a day 1 character can go around owning others?
My recollection of most of the posts is that the overwhelming view of experienced players is that every character can be useful from day 1.
There is a difference between being useful and owning others.
Aside from other new players and characters, a day 1 character is not going to own anyone. But there is a lot that a new character can do that is useful both to themselves (eg. complete all of the tutorial missions, which takes several days) and to others as part of a group.
here is one posted by Tippia page 5 post 87 in thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=329150&p=5 and that's just one of many stating similar view in many many threads.
Quote:have, and where they are allocated.
Yeah, no. If that were the case, we wouldn't have these people who take a trial alt out on day 1 and murder people to bits. The only thing that makes it GÇ£apparentGÇ¥ to you is your lack of time in the game GÇö reality and history has consistently proven you wrong for over a decade now.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
4995
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Posted - 2014.03.14 00:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
dadar wrote:I am thinking the truth is sp does matter up until a certain point and these min requirements represents that starting point if spent in right area's
SP do matter, but more isn't always better. You're correct that having SP in the right place is more important than having lots of SP. The corporations requiring minimum SP are just lazy: what they should be doing is saying what skills they expect new members to have (e.g.: caldari frigate 4, propulsion jamming 4, shield upgrades 4). If they start linking you fits that require a bunch of skills to level 5, they're not particularly smart or new player friendly.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
432
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:dadar wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Usually because it proves you've played the game for a certain amount of time and have shown an interest in the topic. that doen't make sense I have an account with 10 mil sp that I have't played a single day just log in add skills to que log out. You described the most extreme edge case imaginable, very few people would do this.
Actually anyone building characters for sale will do this. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
630
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fair enough.
Can't say I generally agree with it.
I could roll a 1 day alt now and go kill lots of new players, but in general I don't believe that day 1 characters have the flexibility on their own to be able to own others much further than their starter systems.
Throw them in a fleet with links and there is more scope, but in general the best thing a day 1 character can do is complete all of the tutorial missions unless they have a specific reason not too.
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1483
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:masternerdguy wrote:dadar wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Usually because it proves you've played the game for a certain amount of time and have shown an interest in the topic. that doen't make sense I have an account with 10 mil sp that I have't played a single day just log in add skills to que log out. You described the most extreme edge case imaginable, very few people would do this. Actually anyone building characters for sale will do this.
Characters that are being made to be sold are typically not stored in PVP corps. Also, making a character for sale is a lot different than the OP's example of just logging in to train skills and not playing the game.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
GreenSeed
966
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
as said, a day 1 character can do a LOT, but you wont be killing anything. just get on a frigate and damp at max range, sounds silly, but you can single handedly win the engagement.
as far as why is there a limit, its simple, its there to filter people out. if you ask their recruitment officer for specifics you will find that you can probably meet those specifics with less than half their required SP. and probably, if you exceed their minimum SP by a few dozen millions, you still don't meet the specifics.
usually small FW corps, for example, fly in doctrine. you can have gall cruiser V, and perfect hybrid skills. but if they are flying Mallers with pulses, they will probably ask you to start training ammar. |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
217
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
dadar wrote:if [sp doesn't matter] is truly the case then why do all pvp corps have requirement from 1 to 20 mil sp.
If I was going to run a race and, before the race, broke all the other runners' legs, I would be almost guaranteed to win.
If I was going to PVP someone in EVE and, before the engagement, convinced them that skillpoints don't matter, I would be almost guaranteed to win.
See how that works? |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
4997
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:dadar wrote:if [sp doesn't matter] is truly the case then why do all pvp corps have requirement from 1 to 20 mil sp. If I was going to run a race and, before the race, broke all the other runners' legs, I would be almost guaranteed to win. If I was going to PVP someone in EVE and, before the engagement, convinced them that skillpoints don't matter, I would be almost guaranteed to win. See how that works?
A less cynical viewpoint is this: everyone wants tackle on their targets so the targets won't get away while being shot at. Unfortunately tackle takes mid slots, and some people are loathe to remove a tracking computer in order to have a scram. So they want other people to have the scram in the mid slot. So you need lots of new people with scrams in mid slots who don't care that they're not getting big numbers in their combat logs: they're having fun being part of "community" and watching their "friends" blow stuff up.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
433
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:as said, a day 1 character can do a LOT, but you wont be killing anything.
Well you can, I know someone that spends most of his time scamming Jita with his main who never undocks whilst multiboxing trial account alts flying frigates that gank anyone on a gate (usually Perimeter gate TBH) who shows up in overview in a pod, shuttle or scans as an unfitted ship (there are a lot around Jita believe it or not). |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
10876
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Minimum sp requirements keep the riff-raff from rolling quick spai alts to infiltrate your corps with.
No, it won't keep out ALL the spais, but it keeps out the lame assed spai wannabes.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Marsan
High Life Side Line Vacation
212
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
It basically comes to 3 things:
1) It weeds out a lot of total newbies
2) It weeds out a lot of spies
3) They have a number of fleet doctrines that require battlecruiser, T2 ships, T3s, T2 fittings or the like that low sp characters could not possibly have the skills for.
Mainly it's just a way of maintaining their Leetness, and stupid killmails off the boards....
Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
3100
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Several others have mentioned it, but it helps keep out spies, it is a way of ensuring that you can maintain basic doctrines,, it helps keep out spies, and it helps keep out spies.
Skillpoints aren't everything, and an older player will never be able to widen the gap as fast as a new player can close it.
But entry requirements are up to that particular corp, and don't necessarily reflect the reality of the game in general.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
433
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skillpoints aren't everything, and an older player will never be able to widen the gap as fast as a new player can close it.
.
+1
As an example you can pretty much go from zero skills to the close to the best Interceptor pilot possible in the same time an older players adds a level to something obscure.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
5047
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Posted - 2014.03.14 01:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Is it just me of have there been a rash of whiney as hell new player "wah why doesn't this game cater to me and make me a God" posts in GD lately?
Someone puppetting the hell out of their socks mayhaps? |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples
League of Infamy
469
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Posted - 2014.03.14 02:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Theres a difference between a one day old alt who knows the game mechanics, and a brand new player on day one.
A new player wont be able to go out and murder an experienced player who knows what they're doing.
However, that being said, a new player can be useful from day one. Either by scanning sites, or being fast tackle or moving stuff around. Plus a multitude of other things.
SP requirements helps deterring awoxers, not 100%, but it stops one week old gank chars.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1138
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Posted - 2014.03.14 02:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
dadar wrote:if this is truly the case then why do all pvp corps have requirement from 1 to 20 mil sp.
To filter out people by how much potential experience and know-how they have with the game.
Why would a lowsec pirate corp bother with someone that doesn't know how to, for example, kite? Granted, 20 mil sp doesn't guarantee that a pilot knows how to do this, but at least they might be familiar with basic concepts such as transverse velocity, keep at range, orbit, pulsing mwd, overheating mwd, operational ranges of the various points, scrams, and neuts in the game, etc. etc. Almost no pvp corp will want to teach a day 1 character how to use a stargate.
It is much, much easier to teach someone that is familiar with at least some of the above. A high SP requirement coupled with a decent KB requirement can make that a lot more likely in a potential recruit. |
Hadrian Blackstone
Barringtons Research
42
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Posted - 2014.03.14 02:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
This AGAIN... |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
217
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Posted - 2014.03.14 03:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:A less cynical viewpoint is this: everyone wants [cannon fodder willing to throw themselves at the enemy while the "elites" can operate in relative safety and get the majority of the credit]
How is that viewpoint any less cynical?
PVP corps require skillpoints because skillpoints are a huge factor in determining how effective you are in combat.
People tell you skillpoints don't matter because they don't want you to be effective in combat.
Pretty simple. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
120
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Posted - 2014.03.14 03:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
hahah, I'm such a boss
Rise minions! speak! fight! |
Ralen Zateki
Nexis.
League of Infamy
130
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Posted - 2014.03.14 03:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm a fairly new player and posts like this annoy the hell out of me too.
First, you make an exaggerated claim. No one is saying a day 1 player is gonna own anyone. And that video that got posted are of weeks or a month old player who clearly has trained for a specific fit directly... which means their overall flexibility and base of skills is not very well developed and they will eventually have to deal with that.
Second... posts like this imply that there's nothing to do or nothing u can do as a new player. Which is just crap. I've been making a decent amount of ISK (by new player standards) in my first month... in fact... closing in on a billion in ISK and assets. I've been enjoying the hell out of it while I grind out some core skills.
I've found a solid corp to roll with. We have fun, they encourage me to play the game the way I want... but to also not rush and stay in frigs and T1 cruisers for as long as I can while I skill up cores that will make transitioning to larger vessels easier.
I've been in on multiple kills now in small gang roams and am learning a ton.
Finally... this isn't a freaking single player game. Sure, I enjoy the solo PVP vids as much as the next... and I've already started roaming on my own looking for a fight... but largely there just isn't a lot of single PVP combat. So saying you can't do anything as a new single player and that it's unfair is not only an exaggeration and inaccuate, but also a mis-characterization of the game itself.
So suck it up buttercup. Find something to do and have fun with... if anything there's too damn much to do. Find some a good corps that you can do some roams... or even team up with a handful of other noobs and go nuts. But have fun..
The gap does close if you keep swimming. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
120
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Posted - 2014.03.14 03:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lets say a new player enjoys PvP and is joining EvE so he can have fun winning in PvP.
Sorry new person, but you won't get to have fun for a very long time.
People say noobs can have fun, as long as they change their meaning of fun to "enjoy never winning and being ignored and neglected by the majority of the playerbase".
Got it. come on new people! isn't this a community you want to be part of?!?! SHUT UP NO ONE CARES LULZ |
Ismol Mond
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.03.14 04:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lots (well 3 or 4) threads lately by the instant gratification types!
Is EVE a PvP game? If it is, is it a strategic PvP game or a FPS type PvP game?
A while back when they were making DUST one of the devs suggested in a post that EVE was more of a strategic type of PvP game.
Therefore, I would suggest to the people whining about not being able to fly a titan on their first day in game and establishing SOV in Goon territory by the next, to give DUST a try. It is seems to be the FPS you are trying to turn EVE into.
Then when you get bored come back to EvE and earn your credibility. Until then please stop trying to turn EVE into what it is not.
It is not, and hopefully never will be, an instant gratification pay to win game like what many skill point whiners seem to desire. |
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