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New Order Mining Permits Now Worthless?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Michael Ruckert Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 89	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:00:00 - [1] - Quote As I was flying in the Everyshore region, I ran across this message posted in small secure containers at two jump gates. ATTENTION CODE permit holding miners are now subject to bumps and ganks DO NOT buy permits. Looks like someone has created a NEW New Order with the message that mining permits are worthless. "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 3100	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:02:00 - [2] - Quote Those have been around randomly for about 5 months or so. I actually saw one in Hek the other day. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
Sarah McKnobbo McKnobbo Universal Traders 48	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:05:00 - [3] - Quote When were they worth anything to start with?
Michael Ruckert Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 89	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:37:00 - [4] - Quote Does anyone know if this is a corp? Anyone seen a mining ship with a New Order permit taken out? Or is this just a propaganda war? "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
ACE McFACE IronClad Victory Slightly Sexual 1770	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:01:00 - [5] - Quote Sarah McKnobbo wrote: When were they worth anything to start with? You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument!
Foodpimp Heaven's Harvesters LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 153	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:40:00 - [6] - Quote That crowd tries to role play as a regulatory industry cartel. They're only good at ganking if the target is foolish. I remember a least three instances where they tried to gank my mack, only to fail miserably. People use too many efficiency mods and don't concentrate on survivability. Oh well.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 10877	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:50:00 - [7] - Quote Unless it is an official CODE. can, its message is worthless. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Dr0000 Maulerant Union Nanide and Tooling 156	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:54:00 - [8] - Quote Foodpimp wrote: That crowd tries to role play as a regulatory industry cartel. They're only good at ganking if the target is foolish. I remember a least three instances where they tried to gank my mack, only to fail miserably. People use too many efficiency mods and don't concentrate on survivability. Oh well. Unless you are being ganked regularly, efficiency mods win out EVERY time. A tank will cost you from two to ten million ISK every hour. Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1139	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:13:00 - [9] - Quote Dr0000 Maulerant wrote: Unless you are being ganked regularly, efficiency mods win out EVERY time. A tank will cost you from two to ten million ISK every hour. You fail to account for the invaluable ganker tears over the fact you actually survived in your profit calculations however. Also Op, New Order permits were never worth anything. They were a pure scam from day 1. Though their main scam is actually their donation drive to get free money off other people not involved.
Anabella Rella Gradient 1579	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:25:00 - [10] - Quote New Order "permits" have always been worthless. Those guys are simply (not very good) gankers trying to run an extortion racket. Your best defense is to understand how Crimewatch works and if you mine in an area where they like to hang out simply tank your ship. Procurers and Skiffs work very well because they can have battleship grade tanks that won't break before CONCORD arrives to kill them and, in the case of the Procurer, they'll waste way more in gank ships than a Procurer is worth. Stand up to them, refuse to pay and they'll soon move along to a softer target. The last thing a New Order jerk wants is a real fight. Trust me on this. I've challenged the ones who hang out in Emolgranlan to fight me on many occasions and they've yet to take me up on my offers. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 434	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:31:00 - [11] - Quote The new order permits just mean that: In the very limited part of space they actually operate ... 1) Normal gankers (and alts of new order people) will gank you as per normal. Working as expected. 2) New Order Gankers will try and find some part of the "Code" you have not complied with and then gank you. 3) The odd person that dislikes New Order may gank you because you DO have a permit.
hedge betts Shiyurida State Protectorate Caldari State 194	Posted - 2014.03.14 08:29:00 - [12] - Quote Mining permits were never worth a w@nk to begin with. Only sheep bought them. Pog mo thoin
Dain Rokjaw Shotguns and Duct Tape 34	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:44:00 - [13] - Quote Michael Ruckert wrote: As I was flying in the Everyshore region, I ran across this message posted in small secure containers at two jump gates. ATTENTION CODE permit holding miners are now subject to bumps and ganks DO NOT buy permits. Looks like someone has created a NEW New Order with the message that mining permits are worthless. All the ones I've seen have belonged to young pilots in NPC corps. I bloody hate NPC corps, one of the delights of EVE is "everything has consequences" and by extension "you are responsible for your actions". NPC corp wardec immunity completely undermines the cause and effect mechanic by removing a large chunk of effect. "Hiding" on an alt or using alts for logistics is one thing - for a start you might get caught out and linked to a pilot you care about ; but from an NPC corp I could bump you, gank you, scam you, steal from you, lie about you, swarm your mining system, spam about you in local... and there's nothing much you can do in retribution without taking a suicide penalty.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 1330	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:52:00 - [14] - Quote Michael Ruckert wrote: As I was flying in the Everyshore region, I ran across this message posted in small secure containers at two jump gates. ATTENTION CODE permit holding miners are now subject to bumps and ganks DO NOT buy permits. Looks like someone has created a NEW New Order with the message that mining permits are worthless. probably an angry bot aspirant who just found out that mining permits are not afk permits.
admiral root Red Galaxy Disband. 961	Posted - 2014.03.14 10:12:00 - [15] - Quote Michael Ruckert wrote: Does anyone know if this is a corp? Anyone seen a mining ship with a New Order permit taken out? Or is this just a propaganda war? Taking out a code-compliant miner would require ~effort~ so it's unlikely to be anything other than some bumphurt whinebear venting. Seems to be a few of those posting in this thread, too. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Ka'Narlist Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 145	Posted - 2014.03.14 10:19:00 - [16] - Quote Michael Ruckert wrote: Does anyone know if this is a corp? Anyone seen a mining ship with a New Order permit taken out? Or is this just a propaganda war? You've got to be kidding me. Seriously how miserable can one be while playing a game?
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 814	Posted - 2014.03.14 11:05:00 - [17] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Dr0000 Maulerant wrote: Unless you are being ganked regularly, efficiency mods win out EVERY time. A tank will cost you from two to ten million ISK every hour. You fail to account for the invaluable ganker tears over the fact you actually survived in your profit calculations however. Also Op, New Order permits were never worth anything. They were a pure scam from day 1. Though their main scam is actually their donation drive to get free money off other people not involved. The New Order have provided a vast amount of content for huge numbers of people in high sec. Content provision is a scam now? Mind blown. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1336	Posted - 2014.03.14 11:14:00 - [18] - Quote Silvetica Dian wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Dr0000 Maulerant wrote: Unless you are being ganked regularly, efficiency mods win out EVERY time. A tank will cost you from two to ten million ISK every hour. You fail to account for the invaluable ganker tears over the fact you actually survived in your profit calculations however. Also Op, New Order permits were never worth anything. They were a pure scam from day 1. Though their main scam is actually their donation drive to get free money off other people not involved. The New Order have provided a vast amount of content for huge numbers of people in high sec. Content provision is a scam now? Mind blown. running nose provides lots of content for people in RL does it make it any good? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Bing Bangboom Ded End Damage Inc. 253	Posted - 2014.03.14 13:34:00 - [19] - Quote Pop over to the zkillboard and type in CODE. (there is a period at the end). 21,876 ships and pods destroyed, 2,636,801,838,245 ISK lost (that's 2.6 trillion). All for not having a permit. And CODE. , while it represents a large fraction of the New Order is just that, a fraction. Yes, you can make the decision to resist the, currently, largest group of players who are making a consistent, wide spread effort to gank the particular type of ship you fly. You can come on the forums and make disparaging comments on your non-miner alt. You can even go in local and proclaim the New Order in-effective and "a scam". But you can't undo all the carnage, explosive tear extraction and even the effect of just one Agent in local who tells a miner, "Permit or bump." and then proceeds to enforce the Code by either removing the miner from his ship or his ship from the belt. As for the players who have decided to bump permit holders or the one I have seen that actually attempts to gank them. They are doing New Order work in their own way. If a miner thinks a permit gives him permission to sit next to an asteroid in an untanked ship and mine to his hearts content he has not understood the message of the Code. A miner who follows the Code won't usually be successfully ganked, he will cheerfully congratulate his bumper or ganker in local if successful and he will understand his position in the food chain of Eve. Carebears always focus on the permits. This is because their entire Eve experience revolves around ISK. The Agents and the Knights of the New Order have moved beyond this need and have self-actualized around the concept of making the game more dangerous, more exciting... better. The permit is only one step on the miner's journey to this higher level of play. He must embrace ALL of the Code. Once he does this the efforts of the anti-New Order bumpers or gankers become another facet of the emergent gameplay the New Order brings to Eve. Anyone who plays Eve and can get past the "LEAVE ME ALONE!" phase understands that the game is more fun because we exist. If for no reason other than this, the permits have never been worthless. BBB Highsec is worth fighting for. By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
Shaera Taam Secret Squirrel Miners 87	Posted - 2014.03.14 23:53:00 - [20] - Quote Bing Bangboom wrote: Stuff Youll have to excuse my skepticism, but that sounds like a whole bunch of rationalizing for, "You dont play Eve my way, therefore you must be harassed so thoroughly that you stop playing Eve." Is that really good for Eve? -st Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!

Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 305	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:07:00 - [21] - Quote Shaera Taam wrote: Youll have to excuse my skepticism, but that sounds like a whole bunch of rationalizing for, "You dont play Eve my way, therefore you must be harassed so thoroughly that you stop playing Eve." Is that really good for Eve? -st You'll have to excuse my cynicism, but that sounds like a whole bunch of whining for, "You dont play Eve my way, therefore I must whine so thoroughly that CCP must stop you from playing Eve." Is that really good for Eve? As to the mining permits, if you've actually read the terms of the permits AND James315s actual manifesto (which supercedes the permits), you will see there are so many loopholes and clauses that any Agent can and will take action against you anyways if they so wish, regardless of whether you have a permit or not.
Falin Whalen GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 601	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:29:00 - [22] - Quote Shaera Taam wrote: Youll have to excuse my skepticism, but that sounds like a whole bunch of rationalizing for, "You dont play Eve my way, therefore you must be harassed so thoroughly that you stop playing Eve." Is that really good for Eve? -st As far as I'm concerned, the Code makes people play the game, rather than being alt tabbed out binge watching Game of Thrones or something. They save more miners, than destroy, as Code Compliant people are at the keybord and ready to warp to safety if actual mean people are there to do them harm. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie Panhandle Industries 289	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:34:00 - [23] - Quote Shaera Taam wrote: Bing Bangboom wrote: Stuff Youll have to excuse my skepticism, but that sounds like a whole bunch of rationalizing for, "You dont play Eve my way, therefore you must be harassed so thoroughly that you stop playing Eve." Is that really good for Eve? -st Before I reply I want to say that my opinions in this post do not necessarily reflect those of the entire NO organization or official doctrine. At no point does the new order actually force people to stop playing. In fact we give targets an easy way out. Eve had a low retention rate of new players before the New Order existed, and continues to do so now. When talking about the new order, people often forget that we are players too. We enjoy hunting targets. We want people to interfere with us and give us a challenge. What makes a high sec miner's playstyle more valid than a gankers? Because they don't interact with other players? Because they "mind their own business"? In an MMO neither of these reasons should be rewarded. They have elected to play a multi-player game, that means they have to deal with other players in both a positive and negative capacity. We just happen to be the negative. There are many other organizations that support miners and can teach them to defend themselves. The point of this is that in eve, any playstyle is valid as long as a player can defend themselves. In high sec this is easier to do than it is in low sec due to concord, just as in low sec it is easier to do than it is in null or womrhole space due to gate and station guns. The key to all of this is that miners are opponents, not victims, or at least they should be. As a ganker I lose a 10 million isk ship on every gank regardless of success. Make my ganks unsuccessful, and I can promise you you will probably be left alone unless you mouth off and convince me to come back with a larger fleet. The only way I will ever see your argument is valid is if you can demonstrate a case where a solo ganker is capable of taking down a miner without anything the miner can do about it. I have yet to see such a case. So in answer to your question, yes, forcing players to work together is good for eve. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á
Michael Ruckert Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:29:00 - [24] - Quote I have an ice system I mine in pretty regularly. The system has a ganker scout and ganker that frequent it. I always alert other miners when these two show up. Now other miners do the same. I've noticed the gankers spend less time in that system than they used to. All part of the ganker/miner game. But when this ganker duo do blow up a AFK mining barge, I usually have a dialogue about it with them. Why not? You can gain good intel about your opponents when talking to them! Which prompted me to go after the ganker scout covert ops ship with my Procurer when he decloaked to loot after a successful gank. I did some damage with my drones but he scooted away. Now being the EVE vet flyer he is, the next time he baited me with a Vexor. I thought - why not? I might learn something. I launched my drones with max drone skills and took down his shields and started nibbling on his armor. But he was also draining my capacitor. Another player saw what was happening, went back to get another ship, and was just about to put big hurt on the ganker scout when my Procurer blew (it took him awhile to do that) and the ganker scout flew off. Both the ganker scout and I had a good time talking about the fight and I did learn a few things for the next encounter. I also have a new buddy from that fight that is making plans with me to take down that ganker scout. Bottom line. Miners should challenge gankers. It makes for good fights and good fun for both sides while flying! "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
Jessica Danikov Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 307	Posted - 2014.03.15 02:40:00 - [25] - Quote New Order weren't an extortion racket, they were a comedy troupe.
John XIII Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team 126	Posted - 2014.03.15 03:18:00 - [26] - Quote Michael Ruckert wrote: I have an ice system I mine in pretty regularly. The system has a ganker scout and ganker that frequent it. I always alert other miners when these two show up. Now other miners do the same. I've noticed the gankers spend less time in that system than they used to. All part of the ganker/miner game. But when this ganker duo do blow up a AFK mining barge, I usually have a dialogue about it with them. Why not? You can gain good intel about your opponents when talking to them! Which prompted me to go after the ganker scout covert ops ship with my Procurer when he decloaked to loot after a successful gank. I did some damage with my drones but he scooted away. Now being the EVE vet flyer he is, the next time he baited me with a Vexor. I thought - why not? I might learn something. I launched my drones with max drone skills and took down his shields and started nibbling on his armor. But he was also draining my capacitor. Another player saw what was happening, went back to get another ship, and was just about to put big hurt on the ganker scout when my Procurer blew (it took him awhile to do that) and the ganker scout flew off. Both the ganker scout and I had a good time talking about the fight and I did learn a few things for the next encounter. I also have a new buddy from that fight that is making plans with me to take down that ganker scout. Bottom line. Miners should challenge gankers. It makes for good fights and good fun for both sides while flying! This guy gets it. Well played friend!
Hevymetal POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance 211	Posted - 2014.03.15 03:21:00 - [27] - Quote Sarah McKnobbo wrote: When were they worth anything to start with? They were never worth anything. I almost feel sorry for the people who were silly enough to get one. Almost.....
Erotica 1 Krypteia Operations CODE. 4287	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:18:00 - [28] - Quote A mining permit is a steal of a deal at only 10 million isk for the entire year. However, the mining permit's value is maintained by the permit holder following the Code. Many bot aspirants mistakenly believe that a permit is a license to afk. It is not. Put another way... A mining permit is very much like a driver's license. You pay a few dollars and pass a test and get a shiny new license. But if you ignore the law and rack up some moving violations, you may lose your license and even go to jail. A miner who just wants to pay 10m isk but completely ignore the Code is asking for trouble. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Divine Entervention The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies 161	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:26:00 - [29] - Quote Mining permits are bullshit, don't buy them. anyone trying to convince you to do so is only trying to get you to give them isk for free.
Erotica 1 Krypteia Operations CODE. 4295	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:01:00 - [30] - Quote Divine Entervention wrote: Mining permits are bullshit, don't buy them. anyone trying to convince you to do so is only trying to get you to give them isk for free. We are the good guys. We are here to help. www.minerbumping.com See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.



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