They're base stats on unfitted ships.

We'll this thread is entitled "Solo PvP among larger class ships" so given your a goon and you have no solo BS kills afaik and you're always in a huge blob likely with info warefare links and you're able to do away with some crucial mid slots that soloers are not able to you can probably afford to fit a sebo as well.

Try fitting a sensor booster on a Mega with 4 mids when you need MWD, Scram, Web and Cap Injector.

Show me where I complained that battleships can't force frigates into non-consensual pvp? I explained with in game data how adding a sensorbooster to a battlecruiser can allow the battlecruiser to force an engagement to all ships bar frigates.

I also explained how fitting a sensor booster similarly to a battleship only increases the engagement envelope from BS only to BS and BC.

My numbers are spot on. I got them from jumping into a raven and locking the ships, then I cross checked them with EFT. They're close to spot on.

Also looking at your kills on BC and ZKill you're not doing very well with the solo Raven. The last 10 pages only show 1 kill in a raven vs frig.

Might want to check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdk&feature=youtu.be

The golem is not a battleship. Its a marauder. The difference between Golem and Raven is about the same as the difference between Proteus and Thorax.

Much like it does now. Battleships are weak in lots of areas against smaller ships, significantly in terms of application of damage and mobility.

Battleships should be given an increased ability to force an engagement, which would mean a significant boost to scan resolution, 150 to 200mm. This along with a sebo with scan res script would allow them to force engagements on battle-cruisers and most cruisers.

Except the math and the game says they are. Sorry but its not something that can be argued with.

The difference between you and I is I have flown battleships solo since 2003 and, you haven't.

Because 8 seconds is about how long it takes for a battleship to lock a cruiser. Which is about 3 seconds too long to lock one that wants to leave before you lock it.

Factor in your warp in, that 3 second delay where you just sit there at the end of warp and you have no chance to lock a cruiser before it warps away.

Raven locking:

A frigate: 19s (Frigate warps in 3s) - consensual pvp only
A destroyer: 14 s (destroyer warps in 4s) - consensual pvp only
A cruiser: 12 s (cruiser warps in 5s) - consensual pvp only
A battlecruiser: 9.5 seconds (battlecruiser warps in 9 seconds) - consensual pvp only
A battleships: 8 seconds (battleships warps in 11 seconds) - non-consensual pvp possible

That's without sensor booster. With sensor booster its around 8 seconds.

You can argue with the data all you want but that's how the game is coded. Whether you "feel" its faster is irrelevant. Go eject a cruiser in space and target it with a base Raven and see for yourself.

ummmm. if anything a piloted ship will have smaller sig then an unpiloted one Baltec.

You just took a cruiser with perhaps the largest potential signature as an example though. This is more of an edge case. For example most Minmatar cruisers will have a signature of 100 or below.

Baltec at a sig of 188 with a scan resolution of 106mm you're not locking it at all before it warps out so it doesn't matter at all whether its shield fit.

To warp away from combat you don't turn on your micro warp drive when you're facing a battleship.

Yes good idea lets get back to the topic.

My initial statement was that battleships were not effective soloers because they cannot force an engagement in PvP. Since we now after 5 pages of arguments have established that that is correct (unless they turn on their microwarpdrive at which point they would likely be engaging you) we then move onto my other statements.

1. Battleships due to their inability to engage smaller targets usually only get consensual pvp. Given EVE's playerbase that usually means the battleship is getting ganked since people rarely engage unless they're sure of a victory.

2. Battleships would benefit from increased scan resolution, so that they don't only have to engage in consensual pvp. Its a non-consensual pvp game after all.

Yes because Baltec has only ever flown one ship in his entire Eve Life....

Fact is, Baltec, as well as many others who have played this game for years, who have participated in some of the biggest PvP battles Ever, in who help devises Fleet Concepts do not rely solely on out of game fitting tools to try and win an argument, but on their wealth of in game experience and hundreds of man hours actually in being involved PvP fights in all various ships and different situations.

I'd love to see someone take on a 40 man gang in a Raven :)

A marauder with a bastion module, immune to EW and with bonuses to torp range and painters. Completely different from a Raven.

Any competent cruiser will destroy a Raven with torps.

Rather disturbing how a handful of people on these forums find it more important to find ways to argue than to find ways to understand each other.

BS != Marauder.

You know exactly what Infinity was trying to say there. Make an effort to understand before you make an effort to make your high horse taller.

These kinds of arguments are a prime example of why those new to the forums get an initial impression of a terrible community. Learn to DISCUSS not just argue.

Increasing lock times to a level that is still below battlecruisers but allows a battleship to force an engagement would hardly result in a solopwnmobile.

Increasing warp speeds so that battleships could keep up with a gang would hardly result in solopwnmobiles.

Adding +1 warp core strength would hardly result in solopwnmobiles.

Implying that those changes would result in solopwnmobiles simply exposes you as a troll, and a poor one at that.

lmao. Yeah because currently BC are used as heavy tackle ships right. You know the last time a command ship tried to tackle me for its gang was... never.... Complete nonsense. We already have heavy tackle and they're HIC's, they lock a hell of a lot faster than a BC and they're better tanks.

You cannot get a BS to warp as fast as an assault frigate. Base speed of a battleship is 2au. Base speed of an assault frigate is 5.5. With implants and rigs base speed of a battleship is 5au while the frig is 13au.

I don't care about big fleets. If you're in a big fleet and you're incapable of tackling a battleship you have more to worry about than an extra +1 warp str.

You're not making sense Baltec.

Even if batleships were given 200mm, which is 50mm less than a BC they still would not be used for tackling anything other than caps which they can currently tackle anyway.

A HIC or a T3 is always going to be superior because of their small sig, high speed, high EHP and fast lock times. A BS with a sensor booster even at 200mm will only get 120mm from the sebo to 320mm. Less than a cruiser with no sebo so the argument is fallacy. That's discounting the HIC's infinite point.

There is nothing wrong with battleships being able to warp as fast as the rest of the fleet. They still won't keep up because they have double the align time.

Jenn has no idea what its talking about. Its simply parroting your line which is completely incorrect.

Battleships would never be used as heavy tackle with 200mm base scan res because there are better options in the cruiser class with much higher locking times.

200mm is not the locking time of a cruiser. Its less then the locking time of a battlecruiser. You don't need the scan res of a cruiser to lock a cruiser before it can warp out you need the locking time of a battlecruiser which is more than I'm proposing.

I don't care about your fleets because only a very small proportion of people engage in fleet warfare and there are lots of options available for fleets to tackle with. Pretending you couldn't scram a +2 battleship is just terrible. If you guys have trouble putting 3 points on a battleship then its not the game mechanics that are to blame. There are plenty of +3 scrams now and there are long range HICS, Arazu, bubbles, dictors....

Will such BS do any meaningful DPS? WIll it have any meaningful tank? If so any details please?

I have no idea what your first comment is about...

Sure, except in reality a battleship is usually unable to tackle a frigate or apply 100% of its DPS. The reverse is not true for frigates. And as for the comment by baltec1, not only do you destroy 50% or more of your tank by substituting Hyperspacial rigs or utilizing Ascendancy implants - but you still cannot match the align speed or warp acceleration of an assault frigate. Even with a greater warp speed, a battleship cannot hope to outrun a pursuing assault frigate.

i have just looked into pyfa. using 3x Large Hyperspatial T2 rigs i can get Megatron to 3.91AU/sec warp speed.
Assault frigates have 4-5.5

Do i miss something?