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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
121
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Posted - 2014.03.17 04:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP,
When can we expect a balance pass on the Revelation and Phoenix? The current gap in performance between the Moros/Nag and the Rev/Phoenix is glaringly obvious, and really painful. If you don't have a specific timeline yet, could we at least hear what ideas you have for bringing them up to par with the others?
-Hyde |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
319
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 05:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pheonix problems lie more with missiles themselves. What's wrong with the rev? |
Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 06:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Pheonix problems lie more with missiles themselves. What's wrong with the rev? DPS and cap. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3171
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 06:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Pheonix problems lie more with missiles themselves. What's wrong with the rev?
Worse dps and sustainability under fire than the Naglfar and the Moros. Being worse than those 2 means that, apart from unopposed structure shooting to save ammo, the Revelation is worthless. And if you're telling me that "saves ammo" is a balancing point, then at least give me time to take a deep breath before I laugh that hard.
The laser weaponry at capital level is just brokenly bad. It needs a balance pass, badly. In fact, lasers as a whole are long past due for a full redesign, along with drones.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
106
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Posted - 2014.03.17 06:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think a good route to go would be dropping the massive DPS increases put on siege mode and titan bonuses, and just apply them directly to the weapon itself. Siege mode would function a lot like bastion mode with a shorter cycle than current siege; increase range and keep the local tank bonuses. It would be interesting to see the gameplay involved with cap ships with dreads that could ACTUALLY get reps while doing dps. That being said, rev with double damage bonus would be nice as long as the cap regen was buffed a good bit too.
Just some food for thought. |
Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
26
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Posted - 2014.03.17 09:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Revelation is ok as it is, range is better than a moros, and can be as much as a rail fit moros while just fit with pulses, Dps is good for the range it has and the cap works fine if you fit it ok. Ive been in plenty of bashes in a rev and its performed fine.
Pheonix just has a problem with its weapons. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
320
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Posted - 2014.03.17 13:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
aside from the weapon systems, is there anything specifically wrong with the ships themselves? |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
43
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Posted - 2014.03.17 14:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Umm ...
T2 Siege, 3x T2 Damage, Meta 0 Guns (short range), standard high close ammo.
Revelation: 7541 - 25 + 12.5 Naglfar: 8366 - 15.6 + 36 Moros: 10223 - 12.5 + 31.3 Phoenix: 7862 - 58k
Can you see what it is yet?
Lets shoot a large POS. 30+k bubble range ... can you work out the real DPS? If we do again for 30k optimal then:
Revelation: 6913 - Gamma Naglfar: 5577 - Depleted Uranium Moros: 5964 - Iridium Phoenix: 7862 - 58k
You Lasers do less for more, stop being naive. They seem very well balanced at the moment when people stop looking at dumb 'highest dps' numbers. The Pheonix cant hit for **** if its target is moving but isn't bad taking on structures.
And one last point ... take a look at the capacitor for the Moros and Rev, running their single Meta 0 repper, covers all of the siege cylce. Versus the Nag and Pheonix, that barely do half the cycle. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1141
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Posted - 2014.03.17 15:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
I can't replicate those numbers. With T2 siege, 3x T2 damage mods, faction ammo and T1 guns, I show:
Moros: 12,201 DPS Naglfar: 10,053 DPS Phoenix: 9035 DPS Revelation: 8874 DPS
The point about range is well made, but range mods exist. With two TCs on Moros and Rev and two TEs on the Naglfar:
Moros: 16/51 km Naglfar: 19/51 km Phoenix: ~57 km Revelation: 32/20 km
This takes damage at 35 km to:
Moros: 10,794 DPS Naglfar: 9171 DPS Phoenix: 9035 DPS Revelation: 8853 DPS
So the Rev actually has the worst DPS and the worst damage projection. If raw damage is important, go Moros; if damage types, local tank and cap are important, go Naglfar. If you're going nano-Dreads, go Phoenix. Don't go Revelation, ever. |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
43
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Posted - 2014.03.17 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gypsio III:
I am using Pyfa 1.1.20 stable Rubicon 1.1
All 5
no rigs, range mods etc.
Compare like for like, not unlike. Shield tanks vs armour ... range mods differ. Tank mods differ also, as does cap. I noted that you can run a full Capital Armour repper though nearly the whole siege while the Capital Shiled repper lets you run it for half. Using range mods like TE and TC change your tank options a lot on Turret based dreads.
You can compromise tank on the Rev and Moros for tracking/range mods, yes, but lets not kid ourselves. Where do you get your figures? They are massively out of whack from both my ingame Rev, Nag and Moros. No faction please, no damage rigs (on that note, I forgot to remove the T1 collison rig from my Nag fit, so its 'less'). |
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1142
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Posted - 2014.03.17 16:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Odd, not sure why the figures are so different. EFT 2.22.
No reloads, Triple T2 damage mod, T2 Siege, T1 guns, faction ammo.
[Naglfar, cheapo] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Capital Shield Booster I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Siege Module II 6x2500mm Repeating Cannon I, Arch Angel EMP XL 6x2500mm Repeating Cannon I, Arch Angel EMP XL
Capital Semiconductor Memory Cell I Capital Semiconductor Memory Cell I Capital Semiconductor Memory Cell I
E.g.10,053 DPS (9741 DPS with reload). 19/51 km range.
[Revelation, cheapo] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactive Armor Hardener tanky lowslot tanky lowslot tanky lowslot
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Siege Module II Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Capital Trimark Armor Pump I Capital Trimark Armor Pump I Capital Trimark Armor Pump I
8874 DPS, 32/20 km. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1063
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 17:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:I can't replicate those numbers.
faction ammo And I suspect either implants or rigs.
Well it looks like all dreadnoughts except for the Phoenix have some pretty short range. The falloff on the capital hybrids and autocannons is immense, however. Maybe their ammo should be rebalanced to cut some of that falloff away on short range. And I don't understand why capital pulse lasers are both shorter range AND lower DPS than autocannons. I think they should hit a bit harder and have significantly higher range. The autocannons win with tracking and not using capacitor. That tracking may not be useful against stations but it is useful against ships.
Double the optimal of the capital turrets and you fix the balance issue I think. You also fix the difficulty of shooting a large POS tower at full damage. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1142
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 17:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Well it looks like all dreadnoughts except for the Phoenix have some pretty short range. The falloff on the capital hybrids and autocannons is immense, however. Maybe their ammo should be rebalanced to cut some of that falloff away on short range. And I don't understand why capital pulse lasers are both shorter range AND lower DPS than autocannons. I think they should hit a bit harder and have significantly higher range. The autocannons win with tracking and not using capacitor. That tracking may not be useful against stations but it is useful against ships.
Yeah assuming my numbers are right, the problem seems to be that blasters and ACs have far too much range. Pulse should be the correct choice to use against a large POS at 35 km, but it isn't. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1063
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 17:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think all of the capital weapons have too short a range. I don't see a problem with a Moros being able to hit stuff at 150km with railguns. Why else would you fit railguns to a Moros? Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 17:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yes - the no reloads and faction ammo make the difference.
Its one of the things not mentioned. Relaods and ammo switches both matter to some extent, and particularly in the case of an extended siege on a large POS (not uncommon when hitting a POS, imagine going for the Neuts on the other side of POS then the main POS itself).
As for range, its evident that Rev probably needs something minor added and Moros. well Thorium rears its head a lot on structure bashing once you realise its not all DPS.
I dont think the imbalances (I really see the nicety of quick ammo change and no reload time) are as heavy as most people think. Anyone who has sat at a POS for 30 minutes while ratting on an alt ... Rev wins.
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
123
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 18:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rab See wrote:Umm ...
T2 Siege, 3x T2 Damage, Meta 0 Guns (short range), standard high close ammo.
Revelation: 7541 - 25 + 12.5 Naglfar: 8366 - 15.6 + 36 Moros: 10223 - 12.5 + 31.3 Phoenix: 7862 - 58k
Can you see what it is yet?
Lets shoot a large POS. 30+k bubble range ... can you work out the real DPS? If we do again for 30k optimal then:
Revelation: 6913 - Gamma Naglfar: 5577 - Depleted Uranium Moros: 5964 - Iridium Phoenix: 7862 - 58k
You Lasers do less for more, stop being naive. They seem very well balanced at the moment when people stop looking at dumb 'highest dps' numbers. The Pheonix cant hit for **** if its target is moving but isn't bad taking on structures.
And one last point ... take a look at the capacitor for the Moros and Rev, running their single Meta 0 repper, covers all of the siege cylce. Versus the Nag and Pheonix, that barely do half the cycle.
Your numbers are completely off man. The issue with the Rev, is that is has been left behind when the other two turret dreads, Moros/Nag, were given double damage bonuses. This damage superiority is so large, that the moros out-damages the Revelation at range, even using anti-matter. The Nag, although lower on raw DPS to the moros, can swap damage types and can project that damage out to range, all while not using cap, and having more flexibility with its slots for tank/projection/damage. So the Rev is left in a bygone era, it used to be competitive until its turret counterparts were buffed. Currently it is Moros/Nag - Online, the others are in a second class, with the phoenix being maybe even in a third class.
The Phoenix's problems lie with Capital Missiles being pretty much useless in capital warfare, since even a super can speed thank them. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1143
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 19:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rab See wrote:Yes - the no reloads and faction ammo make the difference.
Nah, still can't get them. T1 ammo and reload on. Rev and Moros have two TCs, Nag has two TEs:
Moros: 10,936 - 16/51 km Naglfar: 8855 - 19/51 km Revelation: 8067 - 32/20 km Phoenix: 7862 - 58 km
At 35 km:
Moros: 9714 DPS Naglfar: 8108 DPS Phoenix: 7862 DPS Revelation: 8077 DPS
So, Revelation is a better POS killer than a Phoenix, particularly since those numbers don't include the interaction of siege mode and missile flight time.
But being better than the Phoenix is not an achievement.
Edit - supercaps speed-tanking citadel missiles is almost entirely a myth. The Phoenix's problem is lack of damage. |
Micky Nox
Angry Mustellid
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 19:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
If you put 2 tracking comps with range scripts on those dreads then situation with rev, nag and moros will get even worse.
Moros do most dps, have better damage application and better tracking.
Naglfar is slightly behind in dps and tracking, but capless guns and switchable damage type is a good compensation.
Revelation have worst tracking, worst dps, cap dependent guns and bound to single damage type. So it's just a really-really bad moros.
Phoenix is decent firework platform. Also good bai Unfortunately it is completely useless in combat.
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Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 20:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't fly a dread so I could be way off but would adding t2 capital weapons solve the issue? Scorch is stronger than null most of the time. Presumably, adding Precision/Javelin missiles would also help the Phoenix actually hit something. |
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 21:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:I don't fly a dread so I could be way off but would adding t2 capital weapons solve the issue? Scorch is stronger than null most of the time. Presumably, adding Precision/Javelin missiles would also help the Phoenix actually hit something.
That would maybe balance them in combat some but for structure bashing(Sadly their primary use) it would just make the Moros an even better choice. |
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
87
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 21:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Revelation is Em/Thr. As all capitals are T1 they have high EM/Thr resists. It further puts Revelation behind in capital warfare. |
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 21:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Revelation is Em/Thr. As all capitals are T1 they have high EM/Thr resists. It further puts Revelation behind in capital warfare.
The shield ones don't. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
87
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 21:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Revelation is Em/Thr. As all capitals are T1 they have high EM/Thr resists. It further puts Revelation behind in capital warfare. The shield ones don't.
Shield ones plug EM hole. Armour ones rearly plug the explosive. |
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 22:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Revelation is Em/Thr. As all capitals are T1 they have high EM/Thr resists. It further puts Revelation behind in capital warfare. The shield ones don't. Shield ones plug EM hole. Armour ones rearly plug the explosive.
The rate is probably pretty similar. |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 22:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mr Hyde113 wrote:Rab See wrote:Umm ...
T2 Siege, 3x T2 Damage, Meta 0 Guns (short range), standard high close ammo.
Revelation: 7541 - 25 + 12.5 Naglfar: 8366 - 15.6 + 36 Moros: 10223 - 12.5 + 31.3 Phoenix: 7862 - 58k
Can you see what it is yet?
Lets shoot a large POS. 30+k bubble range ... can you work out the real DPS? If we do again for 30k optimal then:
Revelation: 6913 - Gamma Naglfar: 5577 - Depleted Uranium Moros: 5964 - Iridium Phoenix: 7862 - 58k
You Lasers do less for more, stop being naive. They seem very well balanced at the moment when people stop looking at dumb 'highest dps' numbers. The Pheonix cant hit for **** if its target is moving but isn't bad taking on structures.
And one last point ... take a look at the capacitor for the Moros and Rev, running their single Meta 0 repper, covers all of the siege cylce. Versus the Nag and Pheonix, that barely do half the cycle. Your numbers are completely off man. The issue with the Rev, is that is has been left behind when the other two turret dreads, Moros/Nag, were given double damage bonuses. This damage superiority is so large, that the moros out-damages the Revelation at range, even using anti-matter. The Nag, although lower on raw DPS to the moros, can swap damage types and can project that damage out to range, all while not using cap, and having more flexibility with its slots for tank/projection/damage. So the Rev is left in a bygone era, it used to be competitive until its turret counterparts were buffed. Currently it is Moros/Nag - Online, the others are in a second class, with the phoenix being maybe even in a third class. Dread Dmg Graph & Tier 3 BC for relative damage comparisonThe Phoenix's problems lie with Capital Missiles being pretty much useless in capital warfare, since even a super can speed thank them.
Wow - you are clueless. Turn on reloads, redo your graph. Read what I specced up. Tried it on EFT and Pyfa - relative values are alike. It pulls your graph lines a lot closer together. Learn to use the tool properly.
So your fixed graph illustrates exactly what I am saying. Way off ? No. Its one tool showing a clean set of figures - EFT and PyYfa differ - so the fk what? Its about the relative values. Clueless as you are, look at your graph, taking my example at 30k, they are so close its hard to separate. I use ALL 3 of the turret dreads and the Rev is best for a pos bash because I can leave it alone while I **** around with the other two on reloads. And your talking total horsecrap about damage projection on the Moros. It goes back to the point about most capitals. You see more Moros because of tracking and blap fit, and your whining because your Rev 'isnt the same' - its just different.
Its like every whine in these forums, "buff it cos I can fly it and I cant do it right". Use the right one for the job, and if its blap then you know which one. Whats the point of making lasers the same and losing their unique characteristics.
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Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
272
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 22:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:In fact, lasers as a whole are long past due for a full redesign, along with drones.
Let me just save you here: Its never going to happen. They had a "balance" pass of the Large Weapons and that was just pitiful so that CCP justify, to themselves at least, the removal of 50% of some ships capacitors.
However, if they did:
Those Dread/BC graphs do show the power of Projectiles over distance, but the lasers are more real world accurate (aka, they suck outside of their focal point), however damage wise, it does seem a little inconsistent that lasers should be punished with a overall lower DPS on the capitals, for merely having a "better" minimum DPS for a little longer than the other two.
The best result here would be to increase the fall off damage of both the hybrid and projectile based weapons, so that they matched a little more closely towards the values given in the BC graph - not exactly, but so that the hybrids dropped off a lot more sharply and the projectiles by a good 20%. Maybe even have them slightly worse than the lasers in a certain range gap but again, better off at much longer ranges.
The Tier 3 BC's have gotten the values a little more accurate, with the DPS of the lasers outmatching the proj/hybrids before dropping like a stone.
In the case of BC's if the hybrid/lasers received a bit of a buff here, in relation to the DPS drop being a bit less steep; 10% further along the graph and 10% less steep angle would give the hybrids that little bit more range to be useful, and maybe 7.5% for the lasers.
Projectiles should be left as is as they have a decent consistency over the ranges presented. Blessed are those that carry the Empress' Light; with it they destroy the shadows |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1143
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 22:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rab See wrote:
Wow - you are clueless. Turn on reloads, redo your graph. Read what I specced up. Tried it on EFT and Pyfa - relative values are alike. It pulls your graph lines a lot closer together. Learn to use the tool properly.
So your fixed graph illustrates exactly what I am saying. Way off ? No. Its one tool showing a clean set of figures - EFT and PyYfa differ - so the fk what? Its about the relative values. Clueless as you are, look at your graph, taking my example at 30k, they are so close its hard to separate. I use ALL 3 of the turret dreads and the Rev is best for a pos bash because I can leave it alone while I **** around with the other two on reloads. And your talking total horsecrap about damage projection on the Moros. It goes back to the point about most capitals. You see more Moros because of tracking and blap fit, and your whining because your Rev 'isnt the same' - its just different.
Its like every whine in these forums, "buff it cos I can fly it and I cant do it right". Use the right one for the job, and if its blap then you know which one. Whats the point of making lasers the same and losing their unique characteristics.
Your numbers are completely off. |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 23:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Rab See wrote:
Wow - you are clueless. Turn on reloads, redo your graph. Read what I specced up. Tried it on EFT and Pyfa - relative values are alike. It pulls your graph lines a lot closer together. Learn to use the tool properly.
So your fixed graph illustrates exactly what I am saying. Way off ? No. Its one tool showing a clean set of figures - EFT and PyYfa differ - so the fk what? Its about the relative values. Clueless as you are, look at your graph, taking my example at 30k, they are so close its hard to separate. I use ALL 3 of the turret dreads and the Rev is best for a pos bash because I can leave it alone while I **** around with the other two on reloads. And your talking total horsecrap about damage projection on the Moros. It goes back to the point about most capitals. You see more Moros because of tracking and blap fit, and your whining because your Rev 'isnt the same' - its just different.
Its like every whine in these forums, "buff it cos I can fly it and I cant do it right". Use the right one for the job, and if its blap then you know which one. Whats the point of making lasers the same and losing their unique characteristics.
Your numbers are completely off.
You were the one quoting figures without reloads and with faction ammo. Try comparing against what I was talking abou, not what you imagine is right. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1143
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 23:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
And then I quoted with reloads and with T1 ammo. Although that's stupid, because everyone uses faction. In contrast, you were the one asking for no range mods. Personally, I don't PVP in unfit dreadnoughts.
Your numbers are completely off.
EDIT - checking with Pyfa. EFT and Pyfa disagree on Rev DPS when fit with heat sinks. Looks like one has stacking penalties wrong. Will investigate further. |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
123
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 23:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rab See wrote:
Wow - you are clueless. Turn on reloads, redo your graph. Read what I specced up. Tried it on EFT and Pyfa - relative values are alike. It pulls your graph lines a lot closer together. Learn to use the tool properly.
So your fixed graph illustrates exactly what I am saying. Way off ? No. Its one tool showing a clean set of figures - EFT and PyYfa differ - so the fk what? Its about the relative values. Clueless as you are, look at your graph, taking my example at 30k, they are so close its hard to separate. I use ALL 3 of the turret dreads and the Rev is best for a pos bash because I can leave it alone while I **** around with the other two on reloads. And your talking total horsecrap about damage projection on the Moros. It goes back to the point about most capitals. You see more Moros because of tracking and blap fit, and your whining because your Rev 'isnt the same' - its just different.
Its like every whine in these forums, "buff it cos I can fly it and I cant do it right". Use the right one for the job, and if its blap then you know which one. Whats the point of making lasers the same and losing their unique characteristics.
@ Rab See
1) The reload times for DPS calculations were included in the settings for the DPS graph I posted. I know how to use the tool and included what I was using for example fits in the imgur image description.
2) So you're argument is that it is okay that the Rev does less damage at all ranges because it can afk pos bash? You're insane.
3) The reason I included the Tier 3 BC dps graphs was because I wanted to demonstrate what the racial turret range/damage model looks like, and then how it fails to scale properly into dreads because 2 of the dreads have an extra damage bonus over the Rev.
4) Right one for the right job? Unique characteristics? Then why are the other two encroaching on what are by tradition Laser ranges? It is simply because they boast an extra damage bonus which leaves the Rev behind.
You have no idea what you are talking about and are clearly in denial of what the current state of dreads is. Just keep your trash to yourself. |
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