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Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:01:00 - [1] Well, im sick of these Caldari contemplating the exact layouts and purpose of their new toy. What do you suppose the Amarr tier 3 bs will be designed for? I have my eyes on the 8 guns points in the concept art ------------------------------------------
Foulis	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:04:00 - [2] Originally by: Rockbox Well, im sick of these Caldari contemplating the exact layouts and purpose of their new toy. What do you suppose the Amarr tier 3 bs will be designed for? I have my eyes on the 8 guns points in the concept art I'm thinking.. maybe not 8 guns, but like 5-6 and nos, plus drones and TD? That may be cool, not my area really. ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:06:00 - [3] If its a drone boat im gonna shoot myself in the foot. ------------------------------------------
keepiru	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:12:00 - [4] Edited by: keepiru on 29/04/2006 05:14:12 God only knows, tbh. The prelim stats have it as a 7 turret, 1 launcher, 75m drone bay 8/4/8 ship. The concept art has 8 turrets (but could easily be modified for 7). All-out damage and it will make the geddon obsolete = not gonna happen Guess it could have a 5% armor resist bonus, but that would make the 'poc obsolete. Which leaves EW (ruptors), extremely unlikely, and ranged combat. Or drones and/or missiles, if you like sniffing soothsayer. Nos isnt very exciting for something that huge and lumbering, and why would it have 7-8 gun hardpoints. I mean, everything but capitals will be able to run away from you. A drone ship would pwn the domi, and thats not going to happen, because the gallente pilots woudl break the forum with the rather justified whining. ---------------- Official ISD cake & bree reserve thief. Barricades a speciality! Last stands on request.
Forsch	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:12:00 - [5] What do you need another gun boat for? We already have the geddon that does damage and the apoc that tanks. A drone boat with tracking disruptor optimal bonus would be my wish. The arbi's big brother. Forsch Defender of the empire
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:18:00 - [6] I just dont see how drones where ever a part of the empire, sure in smaller ships like the Arbi, Curse, ect... but for ships of the line drones are not the Amarr style... I vote a platform to mount thoes nice newly upgraded Tachys onto, so a crapload of powergrid and highslots, but a tank that dosent come too close to the Apocs, and make it slow so it will be used as a beam ship, then it wont violate the Geddons niche. Basically a make it a purpose built Tacygeddon, so my geddon can keep its Mega Pulses fit 24/7 ------------------------------------------
keepiru	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:21:00 - [7] Well, i suspect itll have a range bonus. No dmg bonus though, because it would overpower every long-range bs in game. Even 8 tachs with 50% range could very well be too much, depends on the other BS, because youll get silly range on MPulses with that, and 8 tachs on poc is already pretty strong. Possibly the hardest to predict, this one. ---------------- Official ISD cake & bree reserve thief. Barricades a speciality! Last stands on request.
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:23:00 - [8] 8 Tachs 10% range per level and 10% cap usage per level 4tw! ------------------------------------------
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:24:00 - [9] I hope it will have enough pg to fit 8x tachyon mega-#%&#ing beams t2 without any rcu/pdus Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:27:00 - [10] Tachys, then just gimp the low slots so it wont tank well to balance it. maybe 8H, 4M, 6L? Then you have room for the tachys, sensor boosters, Tracking comps, damage mods and tacking enhancers. Shazzam! ------------------------------------------
Hotice	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:31:00 - [11] I have an idea. Give tier 3 amarr battleship bonus to sentry drones. each battleship level increase sentry drone tracking by 10% and energy turret damage by 5%. High 6 slots: 5 turrets/3 utility Mid 5 slots Low 7 Slots Give this ship around 180m/s speed and around 85km target range. It should have enough drone bay to carry 5 sentry drones and 5 medium drones. This setup will be pretty uniqe and fun.
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:34:00 - [12] Edited by: Rockbox on 29/04/2006 05:34:45 Like I said, just isent Amarr to use a drone boat as one of its ships on the line. ------------------------------------------
Foulis	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Rockbox Edited by: Rockbox on 29/04/2006 05:34:45 Like I said, just isent Amarr to use a drone boat as one of its ships on the line. A BS isn't neccesarilly a ship of the wall (not line, 3d space eh?) and the ammarians have 2 ships of the wall. ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
Mr Breakfast	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Rockbox Edited by: Rockbox on 29/04/2006 05:34:45 Like I said, just isent Amarr to use a drone boat as one of its ships on the line. A BS isn't neccesarilly a ship of the wall (not line, 3d space eh?) and the ammarians have 2 ships of the wall. Like CCP usually does when they introduce a ship with characteristics that usually belong to another race, the new BS could be a "counter to Gallente drone superiority" or somesuch. Nothing wrong with an Amarr drone boat as long as it still has the option to use lasers.
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:50:00 - [15] To get RP here, as long as it is not Khanid there is little chance the hard headed Amarrians would construct a ship that relied on other than heavy plating and big guns to use in combat. They just arent flexible and imaginative by nature. That is the Khanid side of things, however that never turns out well either, damn crap-relidge ------------------------------------------
keepiru	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:55:00 - [16] shrug who knows. i guess, the concept art looks droneshippey, but 8 guns + drone dmg bonus? a lil' too powerful... might as well flip coins, tbh. ---------------- Official ISD cake & bree reserve thief. Barricades a speciality! Last stands on request.
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.04.29 05:59:00 - [17] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 29/04/2006 06:01:08 OMG people, DROP THE CONCEPT ART! The concept art IS NOT the be-all end-all! It is a CONCEPT! It is AT LEAST 6 months until they really have to have the real ship designs nailed down! I very much doubt THEY have refined them, let alone figured out what they are going for with all of them! Look - they will have their artists draw concepts and the modellers make the models to be able to FIT 8 guns because that makes them more PREPARED. That is FAR better than saying "RUN WILD GUYS", and having the poor artists have to redo a significant chunk of work because all the damn guns won't fit on the model! So - what I'm saying here is that just because every model has 8 turret points doesn't mean that there are going to be 8 turrets, 8 missiles, 8 whatever on the damn ships. There are some disgusting rumors going around on this forum, many of which are being treated as plain fact. STOP IT! Gotcha! I bet that got ya all hot under the collar, didn't it?
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 06:03:00 - [18] AHHH! However an 8 turret ship is so Amarr :P ------------------------------------------
Gierling	Posted - 2006.04.29 06:04:00 - [19] My bet, Versa ship. 6-6-7 layout with a decent drone bay. Possibly 7-6-6. PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.04.29 06:29:00 - [20] If only you knew.. ¼_¼ Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.04.29 06:44:00 - [21] I came up with an idea...what if it had 8 turret slots, but only enough grid for 8 dual heavy pulses? So it could have a lot of guns, but not a rack of Taychons? Maybe even build it so that it can't even fit a rack of dual pulses without one or two RCU II's. Then you could have a decent complement of drones (same as the Geddon) plus MAYBE some EW. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.04.29 06:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari I came up with an idea...what if it had 8 turret slots, but only enough grid for 8 dual heavy pulses? So it could have a lot of guns, but not a rack of Taychons? Maybe even build it so that it can't even fit a rack of dual pulses without one or two RCU II's. Then you could have a decent complement of drones (same as the Geddon) plus MAYBE some EW. WTF m8? ------------------------------------------
Benglada	Posted - 2006.04.29 06:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Rockbox If its a drone boat im gonna shoot myself in the foot. Same, because if theres a drone boat that can outdo the domi, im going to shoot myself in the foot. now. --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.29 07:00:00 - [24] It will clearly be a giant asteroid with -99% CPU use on a Sensor Echo module to make it look like an asteroid on the overview. You'd sit in a belt mining and if anyone came along, flick on the module and you are disguised as an asteroid! If anyone took that seriously, I'm confiscating their keyboard. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Kornelia Shedim	Posted - 2006.04.29 07:59:00 - [25] Just so long as it doesn't try to shield tank. There's something about having huge slabs of armor that make you feel warm and cozy in your pod. ;) But being that Caldari and Amarr appear to be allies, perhaps some EW or missile technology will be carried over. It just seems silly to me to try to make this battleship a hybrid of the Arma and Apoc, I would rather see a unique role for it. If it is EW, you could essentially say that the Amarr battleship roles are, "Gank, Tank, and Denial".
Meridius	Posted - 2006.04.29 08:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Forsch What do you need another gun boat for? We already have the geddon that does damage and the apoc that tanks. A drone boat with tracking disruptor optimal bonus would be my wish. The arbi's big brother. Yes please. The following are logical possiblities of what it could be: Drone Boat Apoc is the tank, geddon is the pain so those roles are taken up It's the only logical choice imo. EW wouldn't make sense, a missile ship wouldn't make sense, nothing would but a drone ship _ __
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.04.29 08:21:00 - [27] Abaddon 8/5/6 [6 Turrets/0 Launchers] 20000 PG and 500 CPU 10% Bonus to laser cap use and 5% to Beam Laser tracking per level. Im not sure I like it tbh, the droneboat version is better. Sov 2.1 T3 BS
Vorkash C'thon	Posted - 2006.04.29 09:34:00 - [28] I know this isn't going to happen but i would find it rather amusing if it did. As everyone knows each Race is dependant on two major weapon types/Playstyles and one type of Electonic warfare. I'm just using the cruisers as a example here. Caldari Rails Missiles ECM Gallente Blasters Drones Damps Amarr Damage Tank Tracking Disruptors Minmatar Speed/AC's Damage/Artys (I'm just using what i see here as i don't fly Minmatar feel free to correct me) Target Painter Now the Caldari are the only race who have a current BS that is a Electronic Warfare ship with the Tier 3 most likely to be a their Second Bs geared towards Weapons. Now by these reasoning i would love to see all these people who are wanting super tanked and gunned BS to log on after Kali and see their Battleships with Damping, Tracking Distruptor or Target Painting Bonuses (lol?). I know the chances of it happening are pretty damn low i'm just pointing something out
Kel Shek	Posted - 2006.04.29 09:49:00 - [29] well I almost entirely fly gallente atm.... but I think the concept art LOOKS like its a drone ship. and it'd make some sense... a big brother to the arbitrator/curse/pilgrim style. a half missile, half nos, + Drone battleship could be pretty cool, I love my dominix, and wouldn't want it to be overshadowed completely... maybe make the bonuses disconnected from the "intended" weaponry... heard alot of suggestion of tracking disruptor bonus... dominix-esque drone bonus, plus tracking disruptor bonus could work. without a missile bonus I don't know if it'd be all that overpowered to use that rather than turrets on the dominix. I think having to have both missile and drone skills could "pay off" it being a little strong having good weapon options while retaining drone strength and a wicked tank... ok, maybe it does sound a little overpowered. maybe a weaker drone bonus instead? bah. long distant speculation anyway, not really much point. it should be interesting though to see how they decide to go with it. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Muthsera	Posted - 2006.04.29 11:10:00 - [30] Originally by: DigitalCommunist If only you knew.. ¼_¼ ¼_¼ hemm... Why do I have the feeling your not telling us something? My thoughts
Hectic	Posted - 2006.04.29 11:10:00 - [31] Originally by: Hotice I have an idea. Give tier 3 amarr battleship bonus to sentry drones. each battleship level increase sentry drone tracking by 10% and energy turret damage by 5%. High 6 slots: 5 turrets/3 utility Mid 5 slots Low 7 Slots Give this ship around 180m/s speed and around 85km target range. It should have enough drone bay to carry 5 sentry drones and 5 medium drones. This setup will be pretty uniqe and fun. Could I request a mod please GAG this guy? Wanted Contracts Originally by: ParMizaN i am a pink power ranger.
Woopie	Posted - 2006.04.29 11:45:00 - [32] Drone boat 10% damage per level \o/ Some silly slot layout 7/6/7 Bit less gird and bit more CPU than usual.. and cough5%-bonus-to-weapon-disrupton-per-lvl-cough .. then we would just have to hope for more weapon disruption mods to be released soon (missiles and drones and less effective combos of those).
Hectic	Posted - 2006.04.29 12:06:00 - [33] Im going to have a heart attack! Wanted Contracts Originally by: ParMizaN i am a pink power ranger.
sarabando	Posted - 2006.04.29 12:07:00 - [34] give it 8/4/6 4 turrets 4 launchers AND A GODDAMN TARGETP PAINTER BONUS!!!!!!!! Originally by: Phaese It could also be possible that, with all the other technologies they have in EVE, they might've also made some technological breakthroughs in laser technology Or you mom
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.04.29 12:22:00 - [35] Originally by: sarabando give it 8/4/6 4 turrets 4 launchers AND A GODDAMN TARGETP PAINTER BONUS!!!!!!!! pop hacs Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
jarack	Posted - 2006.04.29 12:26:00 - [36] i wouldnt mind 8 - 5 - 7 8 turret 2 launcher just an upgrade of the apoc, same sorta bonus' lil more armor shield and hull, maybe some more drone bay, after all its just a bigger BS, and plz no bonus to TD or anything like that im a pure amarr and i wouldnt mind same layout as apoc but 1 extra mid :)
Adrian Kerensky	Posted - 2006.04.29 18:27:00 - [37] If it's a shield tanking missile boat I will literally break down and cry. I didn't train amarr BS 5 and neglect missile skills for nothing. Amarr are lasers! Keep them that way. Although a tracking disruptor/NOS bonus drone boat might be nice.
Wulfgard	Posted - 2006.04.29 18:47:00 - [38] So, in essence, what you guys want is an affordable Nightmare (50% guns-50%missiles)) with enough mid slots to be flexible in pvp (+4 mids) and still armor tank? I hope that ship will have a bonus to armor tank-missile dmg. It will make the Nightmare obsolete but nice BS to bring to small size pvp battle.
danneh	Posted - 2006.04.29 19:02:00 - [39] 8 Turrets, 5 mid slots, 6 lows, optimal bonus, not dmg boat, not the tanker but the sniper weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Contraband Inc
Mr Floppyknickers	Posted - 2006.04.29 20:18:00 - [40] Whatever the ship it is should be the the supreme vision of amarr design and tradition. That's the way all Teir 3 BS should be, the apex of thier racial technologies, not some bastard hybrid. The Amarr: Should have a seriously heavy hitting ship that's able to armor tank. 8/4/8 5% resits and 7.5% to tracking per level Caldari: a missile demon that can also manage some ECM. 8/8/4 7.5% to launcher ROF and 10% to ecm range and/or strength. (yes I know the caldari players want a rail boat, and the concept art is very sexy, but you're an ECM and missiles race) Gallante: a hybrid platform (meaning bonuses to hybrids only) with an above average drone bay or a drone boat (again meaning drone bonuses only) with 7-8 turrent positions and the grid to fit them with good skills. (e.g. eng 5 etc) Hybrid 8/6/6 7.5% bonus to tracking and damamge or drones 7/6/7 or 8/5/7 with a 10% damage to drones and 10% to drone HP per level Mims: A fast ship with a good mix of mids and lows to allow flexibility in shield / armor tanking (meaning it can do either) and bonuses to support projectiles. 8/6/6 7.5% damage bonus large projectiles and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level. Now before the bemoaning about how this would render lesser tiers obselete, that's the point, and that's the way it exists in other classes. I don't fly a exqueror into combat becase the vexor or rax does it better depending on whether or not i want drones or hybrids. The difference that will keep everyone from flying these ships will be the same difference that some people fly lesser ships in other classes, it will be cost. My money's on the tier 3 BS's coming out at at least 175 to 200 million in mineral cost (assuming minerals are bought) and leveling out at 250 million easy during the initial fad phase then coming down to a more reasonable level latter on, but not dipping below 190 million at any point. That alone will keep the other BS traversing the lanes. Although if that's not enough CCP could do a class wide auxillery bonus to each BS like the did with frigs and cruisers (expect make it a 3rd bonus) that gives them a slight bump to make them more effective at one specific niche. Additionally is it so tremendous an issue if the others ships begin to fade out into a lesser used existence? That's the point of the tier system is it not? Or the point of anything that gets improved. Something better comes out, the old gets replaced. Were that not the case we'd still be on our 486's looking at sprites. It just seems unusual to me that the best of a races design ideas (e.g. teir 3) would be something that embraces the idea of another race instead of sticking with what they know and improving on it. It shouldn't be a question of filling some imagined gap in the BS line, like having an ECM gallante BS 6/8/6, but more about the perfection of what a given race is good at. About excelling at what makes people want to fly that races ships in the first place, I sure as hell don't fly the domi because of her looks. To me that's what the teir 3 ships should be about.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.29 20:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers Whatever the ship it is should be the the supreme vision of amarr design and tradition. That's the way all Teir 3 BS should be, the apex of thier racial technologies, not some bastard hybrid. The Amarr: Should have a seriously heavy hitting ship that's able to armor tank. 8/4/8 5% resits and 7.5% to tracking per level Caldari: a missile demon that can also manage some ECM. 8/8/4 7.5% to launcher ROF and 10% to ecm range and/or strength. (yes I know the caldari players want a rail boat, and the concept art is very sexy, but you're an ECM and missiles race) Gallante: a hybrid platform (meaning bonuses to hybrids only) with an above average drone bay or a drone boat (again meaning drone bonuses only) with 7-8 turrent positions and the grid to fit them with good skills. (e.g. eng 5 etc) Hybrid 8/6/6 7.5% bonus to tracking and damamge or drones 7/6/7 or 8/5/7 with a 10% damage to drones and 10% to drone HP per level Mims: A fast ship with a good mix of mids and lows to allow flexibility in shield / armor tanking (meaning it can do either) and bonuses to support projectiles. 8/6/6 7.5% damage bonus large projectiles and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level. Now before the bemoaning about how this would render lesser tiers obselete, that's the point, and that's the way it exists in other classes. <..> First of all, believe you me. The point of tier three is to NOT make lower tiers obsolete. Word of Tuxford AND Hammerhead. Amarr: Pointless. Tracking on lasers is like flight time on missiles. Also, that ship cannot tank very long if it intends to shoot, so it's not a particulary heavy hitting ship. Caldari: Damage bonuses are given out in strengths of 5% per level for a reason. Rate of fire bonuses are given out rarely for the same reason, but even stronger. A 7.5% rate of fire bonus is STRONGER than a +10% damage bonus (this is a DOUBLE bonus at all times) so if it gets a -7.5% bonus, it's not gonna get anything else. Gallente: The reason you don't fly an exequoror is not because the Thorax is better, it's because you don't like the support role of the Exequrour. You will note that the Cruisers are all very different from each other (except the Amarrians) and in what they are meant to be used for. Minmatar: You really like to dole out slightly overpowered bonuses, don't you? Not only is the concept unoriginal, it's also pretty boring. You've got a similar ship in Tempest, Megathron, and your suggested Gallente ship. That said: THANK YOU for not suggesting a Gallente-wannabe Amarrian ship. Amarr who wishes to be Gallente should train for Gallente, and renounce their religion instead of sticking around for the after-chant parties. In fact, we've got much better parties over here, and our wine is a lot better! New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.29 20:33:00 - [42] I think it will be a Khanid BS Summertime - Campingtime!
General Griefus	Posted - 2006.04.29 20:56:00 - [43] I think the Amarrian tier3 bs looks a bit like the augoror, gives me the idea of similar bonus's maybe. Give it 10% energy turret cap us per level and 5% armour per level. give it 7 turrets with the slot layout of either 8,5,7 or 8,4,7 (depending on whether tier3 receive anymore slots). Let it have enough pg to fit a full rack of 7 tachyons with some skills, but not enough pg to fit a tank at the same time without using RCU. Hand it a restrictive but generous 50m3 drone bay, make it slow but not to heavy(by heavy i mean mass and agility). The fact it only has 7 turrets means it will not match the dps of the geddon with its rof bonus and it will not match the alpha strike of the Apoc with its 8 turrets. its armour will mean it survuves in fleet battles, when called primary, longer (depending on the size of the fleet battles), it wont out tank the apoc as its cap wont be as good, it will simply absorb more damage on its mass amount of armour. it could make a good bs with its own role whilst not going against Amarr ship disign or making the Apoc/geddon obsolete.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.29 21:01:00 - [44] Originally by: General Griefus I think the Amarrian tier3 bs looks a bit like the augoror, gives me the idea of similar bonus's maybe. Give it 10% energy turret cap us per level and 5% armour per level. give it 7 turrets with the slot layout of either 8,5,7 or 8,4,7 (depending on whether tier3 receive anymore slots). Let it have enough pg to fit a full rack of 7 tachyons with some skills, but not enough pg to fit a tank at the same time without using RCU. Hand it a restrictive but generous 50m3 drone bay, make it slow but not to heavy(by heavy i mean mass and agility). The fact it only has 7 turrets means it will not match the dps of the geddon with its rof bonus and it will not match the alpha strike of the Apoc with its 8 turrets. its armour will mean it survuves in fleet battles, when called primary, longer (depending on the size of the fleet battles), it wont out tank the apoc as its cap wont be as good, it will simply absorb more damage on its mass amount of armour. it could make a good bs with its own role whilst not going against Amarr ship disign or making the Apoc/geddon obsolete. Sounds pretty good, especially considering the difficulty of identifying different Amarrian concepts. I'd give it a +10% armour HP bonus (at least), though, instead of +5%. Hit points aren't like resistances nor like repairer efficiency - doesn't really help your tank and as such won't upset the damage vs tanking balance too much. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Mr Floppyknickers	Posted - 2006.04.29 21:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Ithildin First of all, believe you me. The point of tier three is to NOT make lower tiers obsolete. Word of Tuxford AND Hammerhead. Amarr: Pointless. Tracking on lasers is like flight time on missiles. Also, that ship cannot tank very long if it intends to shoot, so it's not a particulary heavy hitting ship. Caldari: Damage bonuses are given out in strengths of 5% per level for a reason. Rate of fire bonuses are given out rarely for the same reason, but even stronger. A 7.5% rate of fire bonus is STRONGER than a +10% damage bonus (this is a DOUBLE bonus at all times) so if it gets a -7.5% bonus, it's not gonna get anything else. Gallente: The reason you don't fly an exequoror is not because the Thorax is better, it's because you don't like the support role of the Exequrour. You will note that the Cruisers are all very different from each other (except the Amarrians) and in what they are meant to be used for. Minmatar: You really like to dole out slightly overpowered bonuses, don't you? Not only is the concept unoriginal, it's also pretty boring. You've got a similar ship in Tempest, Megathron, and your suggested Gallente ship. Alrighty, those were just a quick winging for bonuses to give the idea that the BS should support thier races stregths. In regard to the 7.5%'s I remember reading on these forums, I'm at a loss for where however, that in kali all the BS bonuses regarding weapon tracking and damage were going to be bumped to 7.5%. That may no longer be the case, it's just the last I saw on the matter. As of Dev comments on the matter, I'll take your word for it, believing people are honest until proven otherwise, but I must say thier actions so far concerning the tier system doesn't lend itself to that impression. Still, the tier 3 BS's can still be the apex of a given races technology if the cost model I envision holds true. And from my point of view, that's how it should be as it will still keep other ships in use, especially for newer players getting into BS's or for people with a fleet fight fetish that end up on the losing side to oft. Missioneers/npc'rs would love them as well as it gives themsomething even better to play with. Also, by making the tier3 ships literally the best of the race it reinforces all the skill training, time, and player expereince using and flying the ships of that race. Why after spending all my times primarily in rails and drones should I have to go and learn ECM? Or why should someone who avoided the arbitraitor in favor of traditional amarr laser havoc now have to focus on drones to get to use the best his races ship has to offer? Quote: That said: THANK YOU for not suggesting a Gallente-wannabe Amarrian ship. Amarr who wishes to be Gallente should train for Gallente, and renounce their religion instead of sticking around for the after-chant parties. In fact, we've got much better parties over here, and our wine is a lot better! Rofl! Yes, I think I will be most displeased should the gallante tier 3 be a non-drone ship and the amarr one is. To be honest, if CCP wants to fill these supposed gaps (which don't exist as a little training time and I could easily be in a scorp if I wanted to do ECM as a gallante player) then on top of making us stunning tier 3 ships that are the image of perfection concerning a races distinctive designs they could introduce another tier 1 or 2 BS to fill this area allowing all those who wish to dabble in these things, but for some reason don't want to cross train, have the ship they want to while leaving purists with the ultimate BS to fly for thier race. That would make far more sense. In all honesty, I thing a small part of this issue comes down to asthetics. People like a race's look, and want to stick with it and instead of training for a race that excels in what they want to do, try to get CCP to put in ships in thier race that do it instead.
Malacore	Posted - 2006.04.29 22:24:00 - [46] In my honest opinion... the only way the Amarrians are going to get a drone BS is if they move the 'Geddon and the Apoc' up on level. (Make the 'Geddon Tier II and the Apoc' Tier III). I'd a love a drone ship, but to me, teir three should show some sort of racial specialization, which is not drones. Ofcouse, they'd have to add the third BS in a similar manner for the other races. (Gallante new tier 1 being a Damp boat, Caldari being a railboat, and minmatar being a slightly smaller junkheap)
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.29 22:31:00 - [47] Mr Floppyknickers: Tracking bonuses of currently +5% (Megathron, Incursus, Enyo, etc) will be boosted to +7.5% Tracking bonuses of currently +7.5% (Catalyst, Cormorant, Thrasher, etc) will be boosted to +10% per level Damage bonuses aren't going to be changed. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
NoDachi Q	Posted - 2006.04.29 23:05:00 - [48] This might sound silly, but why not let them use capital guns? Without the siege bonus they are awsome, but not overly so, and would actually give them a use on a super-battleship (which the dread is not) instead of being support weapons on support ships.
235ppo01	Posted - 2006.04.29 23:54:00 - [49] Cannot wait to mine in mine
CptEagle	Posted - 2006.04.30 01:21:00 - [50] Lol at some of these Amarrians... You may think the empire is great, but its not that great... 8 tachs without fitting mods... lol. Well you can have it but with 10% penalty to rof per lvl.
Cruz	Posted - 2006.04.30 05:25:00 - [51] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Forsch What do you need another gun boat for? We already have the geddon that does damage and the apoc that tanks. A drone boat with tracking disruptor optimal bonus would be my wish. The arbi's big brother. Yes please. The following are logical possiblities of what it could be: Drone Boat Apoc is the tank, geddon is the pain so those roles are taken up It's the only logical choice imo. EW wouldn't make sense, a missile ship wouldn't make sense, nothing would but a drone ship I agree with meridius here, it's a drone boat for sure and I'm going to love it to death :-D I already love the arbitrator even if it has that lame tracking disruptor bonus and is weaker then the vexor.... *Cruz starts training Drones V... Amarr don't do missiles boats nor do they do EW boats. And their already is a big gun and a big tank battleship. .................
Manion Taleroth	Posted - 2006.04.30 06:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Forsch What do you need another gun boat for? We already have the geddon that does damage and the apoc that tanks. A drone boat with tracking disruptor optimal bonus would be my wish. The arbi's big brother. Yes please. The following are logical possiblities of what it could be: Drone Boat Apoc is the tank, geddon is the pain so those roles are taken up It's the only logical choice imo. EW wouldn't make sense, a missile ship wouldn't make sense, nothing would but a drone ship I agree with meridius here, it's a drone boat for sure and I'm going to love it to death :-D I already love the arbitrator even if it has that lame tracking disruptor bonus and is weaker then the vexor.... *Cruz starts training Drones V... Amarr don't do missiles boats nor do they do EW boats. And their already is a big gun and a big tank battleship. I really don't see the logic in the Tier 3 BS being a counterpart to the Tier 1 Cruiser. Especially with a lack of a frigate counterpart. Maybe I'm just looking at the Caldari progression too much. Griffin(Tier2)->Blackbird(Tier1)->Scorpion(Tier1) Kestral(Tier3)->Caracal(Tier2)->Raven(Tier2) Merlin(Tier3)->Moa(Tier3)->NewBS Assuming it's a railboat(Tier3) Granted, the Amarr don't have a Battleship counterpart to the Arbitrater, but they also don't have a Frigate counterpart to it so I would consider it an abnormality. Something given to them so they have a basis for their Recon Ship and some EW. Drones don't seem to be much of an Amarr thing. I'd sooner think it'd be a Khanid with an original hull.
dazedandconfused	Posted - 2006.04.30 08:06:00 - [53] Originally by: Eximius Josari Abaddon 8/5/6 [6 Turrets/0 Launchers] 20000 PG and 500 CPU 10% Bonus to laser cap use and 5% to Beam Laser tracking per level. Im not sure I like it tbh, the droneboat version is better. ummm
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.04.30 09:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Manion Taleroth Maybe I'm just looking at the Caldari progression too much. Griffin(Tier2)->Blackbird(Tier1)->Scorpion(Tier1) Kestral(Tier3)->Caracal(Tier2)->Raven(Tier2) Merlin(Tier3)->Moa(Tier3)->NewBS Assuming it's a railboat(Tier3) Blackbird is Tier 2 And Caldari getting a railboat BS is 100% certain. Sov 2.1 T3 BS
General Griefus	Posted - 2006.04.30 10:15:00 - [55] I am hoping it isn't a drone boat, the only way i could see that happening is as someone else pointed out, if they moved the apoc and geddon up a tier, both for game ballance reasons and the fact that the Amarrian's best battleship should be something to do with thier normal disign philosophy, not an abnormality among thier cruiser disigns. I hope it come's out as a turret ship but with a different role to fill other than ganking or tanking, people just dont explore all the avialible bonus option availible. I still hope for the bonus set of 10% to energy turret cap use and 10% to armour hp per level as its such an under used type of bonus and is really cool imo.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:27:00 - [56] Yup. Blackbird is lower tier 2, same goes for Arbitrator. The best way of illustrating it is to disregard the level requirements and look at build costs, hit points, etc and divide the cruisers into four tiers. Tier 1 <Logistics tier> Auguror Osprey Exequrour Scythe Tier 2 <Support/Electronic warfare tier> Arbitrator Blackbird Celestis Bellicose Tier 3 <Assault tier> Omen Caracal Vexor Stabber Tier 4 <Ship of the line tier> Maller Moa Thorax Rupture Note how the fourth tier is different from the third tier in that it defines the primary philosophy of the race while the third tier defines the secondary philosophy. The second tier is actually the race's supplementary warfare deffinition - that tier is rather loosely held on to, and it should be noted that those ships are intended for a strict secondary role compared to tiers three and four. First tier ships are simply logistics - the miners, the front-line haulers and that Amarrian boat noone uses. The problem with tier three battleships is that the second tier has been with us for a long long time, and that those battleships have thus grown to be the state-of-the-race deffinitions. The third tier has simply been sorely missing for years as far as racial identity goes. It has gone to a point, a long long time ago, where some concepts are just impossible to do - you can't have a completely dedicated missile ship other than Caldari and you can't have a completely dedicated drone ship other than Gallente. It's all part of the racial identity, and what sets the races apart. In essence, it forces you, rightly so, to pose the question to yourself "how do I want to play the game?". Depending on your answer, you will have one of the different races to train for. If it's "I want to be very fast and do hit-and-runs" then you should train for Minmatar, who have both speed and a large part of the range needed to escape. If you answer "I fancy drones, commanding a lot of tiny little bastards to do my bidding", then you have a clear path - Gallente. And so on. The important thing is not to have one race which can do the job of any of the other races, it's very important that we continue be forced to make choices and commit to them without being served "here, have this race, it can do what that race can just as well and also these two things". As such, it would not surprise me if the new battleships were completely different from each other, and not done like CCP has done frigates (a few different frigate classes, and where any given race can do most of it). I'd find it welcome if Minmatar were made even more hit-and-run than they currently are (focus on speed and medium range rather than damage of fleet-fight OOMPH), Gallente had an electronic warfare ship which would enforce a close range engagement (damage and dampeners, no range bonus on dampeners! This ship shouldn't be able to fight at long range at all), Caldari got their true long range ship to set them one step further apart from the Gallente Federation background (a ship that can actually do damage immidiatly at range, to boot!), and last but not least, an Amarrian ship that... I'm not sure. Survives? Amarr have two ships right now - medium range damage and a ship that, doesn't exactly have survival, but rather a long operating time. Gone are the days when Cap=life, but now it's more a question of surviving long enough. The risk is that an armour resistance ship will leave the Apoc lacking. I have confidence in Tuxford, however. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Artica Silverfox	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:29:00 - [57] Hmm What about +5% ROF and +5% Armor resists per level? Go all guns and you can't really tank due to cap issues but it can survive a bit due to the resists. Go all tank and you won't be doing all that much damage due to cap issues. Or maybe just give it uber stats with no bonuses. Amarr simplicity ftw...
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:35:00 - [58] imo the gedden and apoc are very very similar. the domi and mega are nothing alike, same with scorp and raven and typhoon and tempest. the amarr need something new, not just another laser platform ect possible: drone BS? sniper BS with odd bonous like +1 built in sensor booster per level [making it have a extreamly fast lock and range] tracking desrupter BS? 25% to tracking desrupter optimal, 5% DMG per lvl? -------------------Sig----------------------- Nerf the Blasterthron its too dam powerfull :/
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:36:00 - [59] Originally by: Artica Silverfox Hmm What about +5% ROF and +5% Armor resists per level? Go all guns and you can't really tank due to cap issues but it can survive a bit due to the resists. Go all tank and you won't be doing all that much damage due to cap issues. Or maybe just give it uber stats with no bonuses. Amarr simplicity ftw... would make it too goodlike, who needs cap when he has 8 tachs with ROF bonus anyway, logical would be something like this: 6/5/8 with 3 launchers, 4 turrets and huge drone bay Summertime - Campingtime!
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.04.30 12:36:00 - [60] I dont have any stats as such for my theory but consider this Amarr have advanced capacitors There ships tend to relly on power so my theory is that the Amarr tier 3 ship will have 6-8 turrets And have some sort of Energy Neutralizer/Vampire bonus. If you think about it you will see the logic.
Cruz	Posted - 2006.04.30 13:48:00 - [61] Originally by: Lord Slater I dont have any stats as such for my theory but consider this Amarr have advanced capacitors There ships tend to relly on power so my theory is that the Amarr tier 3 ship will have 6-8 turrets And have some sort of Energy Neutralizer/Vampire bonus. If you think about it you will see the logic. Maybe it will be a NOS/Drone boat? Something the domi unofficially is? That would be kinda cool imo :-D Like a BS sized curse really. .................
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.04.30 13:58:00 - [62] Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Lord Slater I dont have any stats as such for my theory but consider this Amarr have advanced capacitors There ships tend to relly on power so my theory is that the Amarr tier 3 ship will have 6-8 turrets And have some sort of Energy Neutralizer/Vampire bonus. If you think about it you will see the logic. Maybe it will be a NOS/Drone boat? Something the domi unofficially is? That would be kinda cool imo :-D Like a BS sized curse really. Note everyone i did not say anything about Drones GGGGGRRRRRR
Forsch	Posted - 2006.04.30 14:35:00 - [63] Nos/neutr bonus can only be found on tech2 and faction ships. I very much doubt that tier3 battleships would get such a bonus. Forsch Defender of the empire
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.04.30 14:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Forsch Nos/neutr bonus can only be found on tech2 and faction ships. I very much doubt that tier3 battleships would get such a bonus. All because it hasant happened yet doesant mean it wont happen. And it is a logical progression. Amarr = Nos/Dampner Fits in with there superior Capacitor technology. Caldari = Gunboat A dev stated this to be so. Mimitar = ??????? No idea about the mimitar all there ships seem to be everything but specialising in nothing. Gilent = Hazarding a guess here [Armour tank not as good as apoc but better than the megathrons].
Tassi	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:14:00 - [65] I hope it will be a big arbitrator.
General Griefus	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:18:00 - [66] Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: Forsch Nos/neutr bonus can only be found on tech2 and faction ships. I very much doubt that tier3 battleships would get such a bonus. All because it hasant happened yet doesant mean it wont happen. And it is a logical progression. Amarr = Nos/Dampner Fits in with there superior Capacitor technology. Caldari = Gunboat A dev stated this to be so. Mimitar = ??????? No idea about the mimitar all there ships seem to be everything but specialising in nothing. Gilent = Hazarding a guess here [Armour tank not as good as apoc but better than the megathrons]. Forsch is right, amarr Tech 1 ships have only ever used tracking disrupters, and until recently it was only the ships with nos bonus were the blood raider faction ships. The superior capacitor technology is already in a ship and that is the Apoc. And by the way its Minmatar and Gallente
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:22:00 - [67] Originally by: General Griefus Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: Forsch Nos/neutr bonus can only be found on tech2 and faction ships. I very much doubt that tier3 battleships would get such a bonus. All because it hasant happened yet doesant mean it wont happen. And it is a logical progression. Amarr = Nos/Dampner Fits in with there superior Capacitor technology. Caldari = Gunboat A dev stated this to be so. Mimitar = ??????? No idea about the mimitar all there ships seem to be everything but specialising in nothing. Gilent = Hazarding a guess here [Armour tank not as good as apoc but better than the megathrons]. Forsch is right, amarr Tech 1 ships have only ever used tracking disrupters, and until recently it was only the ships with nos bonus were the blood raider faction ships. The superior capacitor technology is already in a ship and that is the Apoc. And by the way its Minmatar and Gallente PHOOEY Who cares how the names of inferior races are spelt.
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:28:00 - [68] I'd like to see it have bonus's for ............. Bah WTF do I really care! It's not gonna be out for ages anyway! Speculation 4TL!
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: General Griefus Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: Forsch Nos/neutr bonus can only be found on tech2 and faction ships. I very much doubt that tier3 battleships would get such a bonus. All because it hasant happened yet doesant mean it wont happen. And it is a logical progression. Amarr = Nos/Dampner Fits in with there superior Capacitor technology. Caldari = Gunboat A dev stated this to be so. Mimitar = ??????? No idea about the mimitar all there ships seem to be everything but specialising in nothing. Gilent = Hazarding a guess here [Armour tank not as good as apoc but better than the megathrons]. Forsch is right, amarr Tech 1 ships have only ever used tracking disrupters, and until recently it was only the ships with nos bonus were the blood raider faction ships. The superior capacitor technology is already in a ship and that is the Apoc. And by the way its Minmatar and Gallente PHOOEY Who cares how the names of inferior races are spelt. The inferior races care about the names of the superiors, of course! But that still doesn't explain why anyone would care about Minmatar... New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
General Griefus	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: General Griefus Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: Forsch Nos/neutr bonus can only be found on tech2 and faction ships. I very much doubt that tier3 battleships would get such a bonus. All because it hasant happened yet doesant mean it wont happen. And it is a logical progression. Amarr = Nos/Dampner Fits in with there superior Capacitor technology. Caldari = Gunboat A dev stated this to be so. Mimitar = ??????? No idea about the mimitar all there ships seem to be everything but specialising in nothing. Gilent = Hazarding a guess here [Armour tank not as good as apoc but better than the megathrons]. Forsch is right, amarr Tech 1 ships have only ever used tracking disrupters, and until recently it was only the ships with nos bonus were the blood raider faction ships. The superior capacitor technology is already in a ship and that is the Apoc. And by the way its Minmatar and Gallente PHOOEY Who cares how the names of inferior races are spelt. The inferior races care about the names of the superiors, of course! But that still doesn't explain why anyone would care about Minmatar... Slaver hounds care about Minmatars, in a wierd preditor-prey kinda way
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:37:00 - [71] Lol - I think
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:40:00 - [72] If the Amrr BS will eb a dronebost with 8 guns and a disruptor bonus, I'm gonna cry. And then hunt down and pod verybody who flies one untill they have no SP left. GALLENTE ARE THE DRONE RACE! Not Amarr. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Talthrus	Posted - 2006.04.30 16:45:00 - [73] And they AREN'T a shield tanking and missile race. Why are people suggesting such horrible ideas? ----------------------
Cruz	Posted - 2006.04.30 16:58:00 - [74] Originally by: Talthrus And they AREN'T a shield tanking and missile race. Why are people suggesting such horrible ideas? Yet Khanid ships have the best shields outside of caldari ships? Theres a nice little ship called the arbitrator, really one of my favorite cruisers in the game! Quit with the whining folks! .................
Ajax Thanatos	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:02:00 - [75] My heart aches to see all of this nonsense about drones and missiles. I have the utmost confidence that the Imperial shipyards will produce another fine example of Amarrian naval might, and not an impure bastard child of the other races.
Cruz	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:05:00 - [76] Originally by: Ajax Thanatos My heart aches to see all of this nonsense about drones and missiles. I have the utmost confidence that the Imperial shipyards will produce another fine example of Amarrian naval might, and not an impure bastard child of the other races. It's incredible when a Caldari knows more about the Amarr race then an Amarrian himself! .................
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:05:00 - [77] Originally by: Lord Slater Gilent = Hazarding a guess here [Armour tank not as good as apoc but better than the megathrons]. Best bet imo would be to put a rep duration bonuss on the ship, so it has a strong armor tank but eats cap like crazy.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.04.30 17:07:00 - [78] Originally by: Ajax Thanatos My heart aches to see all of this nonsense about drones and missiles. I have the utmost confidence that the Imperial shipyards will produce another fine example of Amarrian naval might, and not an impure bastard child of the other races. working for the imperial shipyards these couple of years, i have gained a limited run BPC of the amarr tier 3 BS a few months before the public release it is a shield tanking, smartbombing monster -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
God forbid	Posted - 2006.04.30 20:17:00 - [79] Amarr should get a Drone battleship nothing else.. Quote: "He did not know, Who he was ******* with."
Ajax Thanatos	Posted - 2006.05.01 03:12:00 - [80] Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Ajax Thanatos My heart aches to see all of this nonsense about drones and missiles. I have the utmost confidence that the Imperial shipyards will produce another fine example of Amarrian naval might, and not an impure bastard child of the other races. It's incredible when a Caldari knows more about the Amarr race then an Amarrian himself! Alright, let me spell it out for you. You're a Civire, so I don't expect you to have a firm grasp of things that require thinking. The Khanid shipyards produce only Tech 2 Ships. The Amarr teir 3 battleship will be a Tech 1 ship and thus will have nothing to do with the Khanid designs as you mentioned. Hope that clears it up. Perhaps you should work on your 'Analytical Mind' skill.
Sarah Aubry	Posted - 2006.05.01 05:21:00 - [81] 8/4/4 with enough cap to fit the 8 tachys and cruiser class armor and sheilds. Make it 300m/s base speed. Uber mobile artillery but feather tank. Something intresting that's not just a better version of what we have now. Also kill the double bonuses on sensor boosters and tracking ect. There should be a penalty for having extra range (like worse tracking) and a penalty for having enhanced tracking (like range).
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2006.05.01 06:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Ithildin Yup. Blackbird is lower tier 2, same goes for Arbitrator. The best way of illustrating it is to disregard the level requirements and look at build costs, hit points, etc and divide the cruisers into four tiers. Tier 1 <Logistics tier> Auguror Osprey Exequrour Scythe Tier 2 <Support/Electronic warfare tier> Arbitrator Blackbird Celestis Bellicose Tier 3 <Assault tier> Omen Caracal Vexor Stabber Tier 4 <Ship of the line tier> Maller Moa Thorax Rupture Note how the fourth tier is different from the third tier in that it defines the primary philosophy of the race while the third tier defines the secondary philosophy. The second tier is actually the race's supplementary warfare deffinition - that tier is rather loosely held on to, and it should be noted that those ships are intended for a strict secondary role compared to tiers three and four. First tier ships are simply logistics - the miners, the front-line haulers and that Amarrian boat noone uses. The problem with tier three battleships is that the second tier has been with us for a long long time, and that those battleships have thus grown to be the state-of-the-race deffinitions. The third tier has simply been sorely missing for years as far as racial identity goes. It has gone to a point, a long long time ago, where some concepts are just impossible to do - you can't have a completely dedicated missile ship other than Caldari and you can't have a completely dedicated drone ship other than Gallente. It's all part of the racial identity, and what sets the races apart. In essence, it forces you, rightly so, to pose the question to yourself "how do I want to play the game?". Depending on your answer, you will have one of the different races to train for. If it's "I want to be very fast and do hit-and-runs" then you should train for Minmatar, who have both speed and a large part of the range needed to escape. If you answer "I fancy drones, commanding a lot of tiny little bastards to do my bidding", then you have a clear path - Gallente. And so on. The important thing is not to have one race which can do the job of any of the other races, it's very important that we continue be forced to make choices and commit to them without being served "here, have this race, it can do what that race can just as well and also these two things". As such, it would not surprise me if the new battleships were completely different from each other, and not done like CCP has done frigates (a few different frigate classes, and where any given race can do most of it). I'd find it welcome if Minmatar were made even more hit-and-run than they currently are (focus on speed and medium range rather than damage of fleet-fight OOMPH), Gallente had an electronic warfare ship which would enforce a close range engagement (damage and dampeners, no range bonus on dampeners! This ship shouldn't be able to fight at long range at all), Caldari got their true long range ship to set them one step further apart from the Gallente Federation background (a ship that can actually do damage immidiatly at range, to boot!), and last but not least, an Amarrian ship that... I'm not sure. Survives? Amarr have two ships right now - medium range damage and a ship that, doesn't exactly have survival, but rather a long operating time. Gone are the days when Cap=life, but now it's more a question of surviving long enough. The risk is that an armour resistance ship will leave the Apoc lacking. I have confidence in Tuxford, however. listen to the man. Ithildin for president - phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:39:00 - [83] The Amarr have a T1 & T2 droneboat. We have a T1 missile specialist. We have (technically) a couple of shieldtanking ships. So realistically any of those would fit within lore. Amarr BS - Abaddon The Abaddon is another example of how the Amarr Imperial Navy has modeled their design to counter specific tactics employed by the other empires. The Abaddon is a fairly standard Amarr ship in most respects, having good offences and lacking mobility. It is more Caldari-like than most Amarr ships, however, since its arsenal mostly consists of missile bays. + 10% bonus to EM missile damage and 5% bonus to Explosive, Kinetic and Thermal missile damage per level. (7 missile, 1 turret)(a la Inquisitor) + 10 drone damage and drone hp per lvl (a la Curse/Pilgrim) Possibly make it a shieldtanker. If you need a third bonus give it a +5% resists per lvl like a Prophecy, Maller or shield resists if it's a shield tanker. Come on CCP. Give the Amarr players a real reason to train up the T2 large Drones and T2 large missiles. It's a good timesink, it's different, and it would be FUN to have these in a fleet with some Geddons. My alternative opinion was that it would be a nos ship. But large nos with 100+ KM range and +40% to amount was so staggerly overpowered (especially versus capital ships) that I couldnt in all honesty support that suggestion, although the shades of a thousand dead Amarrians cried out for just that suggestion. Nyxus Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:05:00 - [84] Originally by: Ithildin snip Tier 1 <Logistics tier> Auguror Osprey Exequrour Scythe Tier 2 <Support/Electronic warfare tier> Arbitrator Blackbird Celestis Bellicose Tier 3 <Assault tier> Omen Caracal Vexor Stabber Tier 4 <Ship of the line tier> Maller Moa Thorax Rupture Note how the fourth tier is different from the third tier in that it defines the primary philosophy of the race while the third tier defines the secondary philosophy. The second tier is actually the race's supplementary warfare deffinition - that tier is rather loosely held on to, and it should be noted that those ships are intended for a strict secondary role compared to tiers three and four. First tier ships are simply logistics - the miners, the front-line haulers and that Amarrian boat noone uses. snip As such, it would not surprise me if the new battleships were completely different from each other, and not done like CCP has done frigates (a few different frigate classes, and where any given race can do most of it). I'd find it welcome if Minmatar were made even more hit-and-run than they currently are (focus on speed and medium range rather than damage of fleet-fight OOMPH), *Gallente had an electronic warfare ship which would enforce a close range engagement (damage and dampeners, no* range bonus on dampeners! This ship shouldn't be able to fight at long range at all) , Caldari got their true long range ship to set them one step further apart from the Gallente Federation background (a ship that can actually do damage immidiatly at range, to boot!), and last but not least, an Amarrian ship that... I'm not sure. Survives? Amarr have two ships right now - medium range damage and a ship that, doesn't exactly have survival, but rather a long operating time. Gone are the days when Cap=life, but now it's more a question of surviving long enough. The risk is that an armour resistance ship will leave the Apoc lacking. I have confidence in Tuxford, however. Judging from your logic, gallente tier 3 should get hybrid damage and mwd penalty bonus. However, to not make megathron obsolete, I would give it a 5% ROF bonus instead (so megathron would still have a better alpha-strike).. Which would be kind of odd because there are no ships with hybrid rof bonuses afaik, but I dont see any other way of making it a good blaster boat and not making the megathron obsolete. Bottom line: gallente tier3 has to be a blasterboat, like thorax's big brother, which means lots of highslots, few mids, lots of lows. Damp bonus wouldn't make sense on it. ------ Originally by:** Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.01 15:05:00 - [85] The Megathron will be obsolete as soon as another Gallente ship outdamages it comparing turrets to turrets regardless of what sort of damage bonus is given. Blasters and alpha-strike doesn't go hand in hand. Nyxus, they aren't going to give these ships three bonuses, let alone let and ship out damage the Raven with missiles (regardless of WHAT missiles that might be) so the best you can hope for in ways of a missile or drone ship for Amarr is going to be one that sucks at both (read: too small drone bay to carry more than one set, and less than 6 launchers). New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.01 17:33:00 - [86] Edited by: Breed Love on 01/05/2006 17:33:43 Originally by: Ithildin The Megathron will be obsolete as soon as another Gallente ship outdamages it comparing turrets to turrets regardless of what sort of damage bonus is given. Blasters and alpha-strike doesn't go hand in hand. Well what I meant is alpha strike with railguns in a fleet fight. Megathron would be better at that, if it had the damage bonus vs rof bonus on the new ship. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.05.01 21:19:00 - [87] Originally by: Ithildin Nyxus, they aren't going to give these ships three bonuses, let alone let and ship out damage the Raven with missiles (regardless of WHAT missiles that might be) so the best you can hope for in ways of a missile or drone ship for Amarr is going to be one that sucks at both (read: too small drone bay to carry more than one set, and less than 6 launchers). Fair enough, 2 bonuses are more than enough. I would say that 7 launchers with a damage bonus does less damage than 6 with a rof bonus. Especially when the big portion of that damage bonus is EM damage. I don't think that a ship like my hypothetical <insert new Tier 3 name> would be better with missiles than the Raven, or have more flights of drones than the domi. It could mix the two for some very interesting, very different type of weaponry. If you say that this is a Khanid ship, or even borrowed heavily from Caldari tech like the Inquisitor (read it's description, it's interesting) so it fits the lore. The Curse, Pilgrim, and Arbitrator all have the drone bonus, but lack the HUGE drone bay of the Vexxor/Ishtar and so are not better at drones than the Gallente. I don't see how this would be any different as long as the drone bay was not greater than the Domi's or the overall damage of the missiles was greater than the Raven. Besides, Caldari got a Rail BS. Gallente got..errmm...well you got the buttplug. The Amarr should have a missile spewing drone boat. It would be funÖ. Nyxus Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Karash Amerius	Posted - 2006.05.01 21:32:00 - [88] Right now Amarr have an Assault BS (Geddon) and a Line BS (Apoc). My bet would be on an ECM / Midslot BS that compliments the Amarr Navy. The goal of the Tiers is not to outclass other ships, but to compliment each other. Karash Amerius Tac Coordinator, OEC Merc Blog
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.01 21:37:00 - [89] 8/4/8 10% cap use decrease 10% optimal range per lvl
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.05.02 07:06:00 - [90] Originally by: Lord Slater PHOOEY Who cares how the names of inferior races are spelt. Please don't roleplay here... I think they would need to revamp NOS/Neuts to have sig radius for tech 1 ships to start getting these types of bonuses on the Highslot mods. If anything the ship would be : 6/4/8 [6 turrets NO missiles] 250 m/3 drone bay 5500 Armor HP 4500 Shield HP 4500 Capacitor 20500 pg 525 CPU Primary Ship Bonus ------------------ 10% capacitor reduction to Large Energy Turrets per lvl Secondary Ship Bonus -------------------- 20% bonus to energy neutralizer drone drain amount per lvl Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Jaketh Ivanes	Posted - 2006.05.02 08:49:00 - [91] I like the idea of an Augy Poc. 50% extra armor will be a nice buffer.. you could allmost call it a "passive" tank .
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.02 09:30:00 - [92] Originally by: Deathbarrage 8/4/8 10% cap use decrease 10% optimal range per lvl That's what the Amarr navy need most. Amarr battleships have a hard time keeping their place in long-range engagments, and the sheer cost of t2 cristals prevent them to be a viable option.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.02 09:51:00 - [93] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Deathbarrage 8/4/8 10% cap use decrease 10% optimal range per lvl That's what the Amarr navy need most. Amarr battleships have a hard time keeping their place in long-range engagments, and the sheer cost of t2 cristals prevent them to be a viable option. 1. The Amarr philosophy is more medium range engagement than long range. Caldari are the only ones with a strict long range philosophy. As such it will not happen. 2a. The T2 ammo (aside from being in grave need of being removed as they are currently) cost a lot for lasers because they are produced in batches of 3 (approx. 3000 rounds) compared to other ammunition's production of 5000 rounds per batch. 2b. For some reason, I've noticed that T2 crystals are sold at slightly higher price compared to other T2 ammo (i.e. one batch T2 crystals are sold at higher profit margin than one batch other ammo is sold at) My personal favorite for Amarrian so far is: High 8 (8T #L) Mid 4 Low 8 -10% capacitor capacity on large energy weapons +10% armour hit points ~21,000 Powergrid (+1,500 over Apoc) ~525 CPU (+25 over Apoc) ~7500 armour hit points (+1,500 over Apoc) ~5000 capacitor capacity (+200 over level 0 Apoc) :- Slightly bigger, slightly more armour, etc, than Apoc. Over all, this should take the place of a fleet combat Amarrian ship where the Apocalypse will remain the ship of choice for agent missions and hunting trips due to better sustained fire-and-tank capability. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Dralon	Posted - 2006.05.02 10:26:00 - [94] Umg its gotta be khanid! Come on em missile damage bonus and an optimal range increase for its guns. Just got imagine the concept art.. more khaniddy like
Forsch	Posted - 2006.05.02 11:27:00 - [95] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Primary Ship Bonus ------------------ 10% capacitor reduction to Large Energy Turrets per lvl If it's really a drone boat I sure hope they don't put the cap reduction bonus. Afterall they also left it out on the arbitrator (drone dmg/hp and tracking disrupters). My favourite is still a tracking disruptor optimal bonus coupled with either a drone bonus or 5% resists per level. Forsch Defender of the empire
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.02 11:29:00 - [96] i suppose the maller bonus would work
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:15:00 - [97] Edited by: Shadowsword on 02/05/2006 14:15:33 Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Deathbarrage 8/4/8 10% cap use decrease 10% optimal range per lvl That's what the Amarr navy need most. Amarr battleships have a hard time keeping their place in long-range engagments, and the sheer cost of t2 cristals prevent them to be a viable option. 1. The Amarr philosophy is more medium range engagement than long range. Caldari are the only ones with a strict long range philosophy. As such it will not happen. Yes and no. For medium ranges they already have Pulses Lasers. Beams are there to fill a hole in their capacities, to allow them to compete in long range engaments. But long range is evolving, and beams have a hard time to keep up, while tachyons eat so much powergrid that you must half-gimp your ship to use them. Originally by: Ithildin 2a. The T2 ammo (aside from being in grave need of being removed as they are currently) cost a lot for lasers because they are produced in batches of 3 (approx. 3000 rounds) compared to other ammunition's production of 5000 rounds per batch. There's a grave unbalance, but it's not that one. The problem is that a Megathron or Temspest user can buy a thousand rounds of T2 ammos, and that's enough for quite a few fleet battles. Arma and Apoc users, however, have to buy 7-8 Lenses, and that's seven or eight thousands worth of equivalent rounds. Even if they could, no sane Mega or Tempest user would bring along 7-8k T2 rounds in a fleet fight, so why should Amarr users? It would be easy to solve it, by reducing the cristal lifetime by a factor of 10 or 20, and increasing the number built per batch by the same ratio. Originally by: Ithildin 2b. For some reason, I've noticed that T2 crystals are sold at slightly higher price compared to other T2 ammo (i.e. one batch T2 crystals are sold at higher profit margin than one batch other ammo is sold at) Supply and demand. Laser users that want to be more than spectators in fleet fights HAVE to buy T2 ammos, and buy 7-8 lenses each time. Since T2 cristals sell faster, the producers are upping their margin progressively. The result of it all, is that, right now, Amarr users have to pay about 10-15 times as much money than anyone else to follow the evolution of warfare.
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:17:00 - [98] Khanid design. 4 turrets, 4 missiles. 5% EM missile damage, 10% less cap on lasers. Shield tank with 6 med slots. Id like that
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.05.02 18:38:00 - [99] Originally by: Kamikaaazi Khanid design. 4 turrets, 4 missiles. 5% EM missile damage, 10% less cap on lasers. Shield tank with 6 med slots. Id like that And the rest of us would hate you. Split 50/50 weapons with only 1 weapon bonus per system suck without exception. This would only result in more uber whineage where all amarrian characters would be forced to spam the threads until Tux's eyes bleed and the rest of the CCP staff beat him with his own nerf bat until he relents and fixes it. 50/50 Khanid designs blow chunks. Don't let the Typhoon happen to the Amarrians! We already have a Battleship with a bonus to ~capacitor~. Isn't that enough suffering? I still wish the Apoc bonus was changed to 5% resists per lvl. Nyxus Nyxus Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Forsch	Posted - 2006.05.02 18:42:00 - [100] Originally by: Kamikaaazi Khanid design. 4 turrets, 4 missiles. 5% EM missile damage, 10% less cap on lasers. Shield tank with 6 med slots. Id like that Hehe, like the worst suggestion ever. Nice try tho. Forsch Defender of the empire

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