AFAIK its a bannable offense


If its not, I know a LOT of folks that will hunt you down and kill you again and and again and again and again until you yell Baggins.

Not worried about that.


Only want to know what the GMs say about it.

It is theoretically illegal.

Having said that.

there is a little saying in the united states - dont ask, dont tell. Im not american, but i like that saying.

since there is no way for eve online game code to detect simple macro programs that move and click mouse and keyboard, clever people who know how to keep their mouths shut are, let say, using their imaginations to the fullest.

Theoretically it is possible to fully automate mining, with multiple characters, anomaly running, and a couple of other things, without use of bots, only by using UI, overview, and mouse/keyboard macros. You just have to be smart about it.

Disclosure: I havent done any illegal activities that breach the EULA, I merely engage in theoretical discussions on the topic.

Not worried about that.


Only want to know what the GMs say about it.

If it repeats at exactly the same interval every time, I think he could raise warning flags.

nope, thats not how eve client works. and the theoretical solution if youre paranoid, is to build in random variance of half a second or so to your macro clicks, or set the macro cycle of 10 clicks each with different timings manually, for example.

Actually if you watched the security videos from a couple years ago the discuss exactly this if I recall correctly.

I talked to the GMs and they weren't very helpful. They were so vague and wouldn't confirm or deny anything.

They directed me to the EULA and technically what I want to do should be okay. However the ELUA is so vague also that it raises uncertainty.

I think if somebody is allowed to ISbox 20+ accounts and make billions of isk, this shouldn't really be cared about either.

Fair enough, just try not to be too upset when it happens.

Not talking about automating anything that is done within the game.

Automating input of the game is not allowed by the EULA.

Unless you do it on multiple characters at once. Then it's called multiboxing and magically allowed.

The EULA says you cannot automate if it " facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"

So technically it isn't against the rules.

But I still don't understand how ISboxer isn't.

Admits to creating botting functionality.

Attempts to defend doing so.

Nice knowing you.

Macro isn't the same as bot.

I only asked a question, Don't dramatize.

There was a thread on the forums a long time ago about somebody getting banned for using his Keyboard or mouse (can't Remember) build in macro functions. It basically allowed him to warp to 0 to gate jump and repeat until he reached his destination.

In any event. I have already logged a petition for botting using this thread as evidence. Since you said you already made it.

Sure it is. You get to where you're going faster than if you had left the ship to its own devices.

Because it doesn't let you gain anything at an accelerated rate and because it only responds 1:1 to direct user input.

It responds 1:1 to direct user input for dozens of open windows at the same time. When 20 mining ships all lock a rock and activate their lasers within the same microsecond of each other, that is by definition an accelerated rate. Going over 20 screens and manually locking and activating would take much much longer. Also I don't believe for a second that someone running a 20 character mining fleet is going window to window to empty their cargoholds.

It responds 1:1 to direct user input for dozens of open windows at the same time.

When 20 mining ships all lock a rock and activate their lasers within the same microsecond of each other, that is by definition an accelerated rate.

GǪand all that matters is the 1:1 rate.

No, it's not, since any other 20 ships would gain the same amount of ore in the same amount of time GÇö i.e. at the same rate. Even multi-boxing it manually would yield the same rate, only staggered.

Auto clicking the warp button will get you to the destination at the same speed as if you sat there and did it yourself.

ISboxing lets you use 20 accounts perfectly where as trying to do it without would be extremely hard or impossible.
One does the same thing as before, another is able to do much more than before.

The advantage is obvious.

If you are going to ban one, ban them all. Why does ISboxer get special privileges?

GǪbut faster than if you didn't use the macro, since doing so would leave you hanging in space for long periods of time. So: at an accelerated speed.

If you want to travel at the faster speed, you have to do exactly what you describe and sit there. If you want to travel while AFK, you have to use the autopilot. Travelling as if at the keyboard when you're AFK is what makes it a violation of the EULA.

No. One does something that can't be done before; the other does the same as any other 20 accounts in the same situation.

The advantage of the macro is obvious, yes, which is why they are not allowed and why people have been banned for using them.

It doesn't get any special privileges GÇö it simply doesn't break the rules.

So what you guys saying is that keith eaton and all the isds that use macro keys to answer questions on the help channel should be banned??

Because they are typing faster than what they would if they werent using macros and hotkeys.

I can have a hotkey that when i press it mines in my hulk for 23.5 hours.. its just a hotkey, not a bot.. right?

Flawed logic.

Using 20 accounts perfectly is something that cannot be done before.

The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before.

Logic used by CCP. You may not like it, but it's the one you need to follow.

Yes it is. It's actually really really simple.

And again, 20 accounts acquiring goods at the same rate as every other group of 20 accounts means there is no accelerated rate.
An AFK person traveling as fast as an at-keyboard person means there is.

CCP aren't players, so they don't have to play by the rules. And the difference between multiboxing and macro use has already been explained.

A player playing on one screen, and having those actions artificially repeated onto 19 other screens is accelerated rate.

So you agree CCP logic is flawed and you still try to defend it?

A player playing on one screen, and having those actions artificially repeated onto 19 other screens is accelerated rate. They will do what they are doing 20x better than a single pilot. Without doing more "work".

ISboxer:
Same work but many times more reward.

So you agree CCP logic is flawed and you still try to defend it?

I'll just point to the EULA and the multiboxers.
And the record will show that I asked on the forums and the GMs.

If you go by the EULA, the hotkeys for the ISDs are not banned. Because they don't "facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status".

The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before.

Please give a specific reference as to where CCP has announced that ISboxer is allowed to be used with EVE.

Also please enlighten us on how you have determined that certain people definitely use ISboxer and not anything else or some software at all.

Finally i'm interested on your opinion on the banwaves of macro-users that occur once every year. How do you think pointing fingers to others will spare you from having action being taken on you?

Multiboxers have to click. Previously CCP have stated that as long as a physical click happens it doesn't matter how many simultaneous client clicks that generates, but if a click is generated without a physical click, then it's bannable. so what you have, which is essentially an autopilot bot, is very very bannable.

If I can find the CCP quote I'll link it.

No. It's still just 20 accounts working at the rate of 20 accounts. No acceleration there.

So I've made this little program that will click my mouse for me every 3 seconds.


I thought I'd use it to click jump to the next gate while I refill a drink or take a quick bathroom break.


What are the rules regarding this? I know that programs that do complex things like mining (lol) are banned obviously. But what about an auto clicker? All it does is just click the mouse.


Thanks!

IS boxer is specifically distributed with a mining bot script

If you go by the EULA, the hotkeys for the ISDs are not banned. Because they don't "facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status".

The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before.

An AFK mining bot is also just 1 account working at the rate of 1 account, yet that is illegal because the player is not physically doing the work.

The other 19 are essentially being AFK botted because it's not the player actually providing the input, it's the program.

When there are 20 miners in a belt and you have to activate them all manually it will take you at least a minute to activate all of them by hand. I'm sure with practice it could be done faster, but fact remains that you can never do it instantly across all windows.

Without automation it is impossible for a player to physically command 20 accounts simultaneously.

So I've made this little program that will click my mouse for me every 3 seconds.


I thought I'd use it to click jump to the next gate while I refill a drink or take a quick bathroom break.


What are the rules regarding this? I know that programs that do complex things like mining (lol) are banned obviously. But what about an auto clicker? All it does is just click the mouse.


Thanks!

I think if somebody is allowed to ISbox 20+ accounts and make billions of isk, this shouldn't really be cared about either.

It is also illegal because it is 1 account working at the rate of 8, since it squeezes 164.5 hours of mining out of a week instead of the regular 21(ish).

No, it's still the player. If the player does nothing, those muliboxed accounts also do nothing. The input is 1:1 and nothing is automated.

GǪand the advantage in having them all activate at once isGǪ?

Not even close.

Not close?

Explain to me how somebody can operate 20 accounts at once in simulationously perfectly, without any use of programs.

The problem is that you assume that simultaneously and perfectly means GÇ£in complete synchronisationGÇ¥.
You can operate 20 mining accounts at once simultaneously and perfectly just by switching windows. The limiting factor is how often you have to empty your cargo hold, and since that frequency is measured in sizeable fractions of an hour, you can be very leisurely in doing so.

In fact, you could probably run it even more perfectly if you did it manually rather than use a multiboxing program, since every single client could be directed to switch asteroids and positions with more precision than if you made every one of them work exactly the same irrespective of how much ore is around them.

No, the problem is you think ISboxer is only for mining.

A single person can run an entire incursion fleet on ISboxer (and they do, and yes it is very OP).

No, I don't.
You asked a question, and I answered.

How is it overpowered?

GǪaside from jumping to the next gate. So: not allowed.

How isn't it?

And there is no way somebody can do it manually.

No, I don't.
You asked a question, and I answered.

How is it overpowered?

I remember this post from a long ago about a guy putting a stack of coins on his F1 key, which was mapped to this MWD.

Now that there is a shortcut for warping, you can do the same.

Why coins? Cause he said "takes money to make money"

That doesn't answer the question.
How is it overpowered?

So what? It's still X amount of accounts creating Y amount of assets, same as any other X amount of accounts doing the same.

So I've made this little program that will click my mouse for me every 3 seconds.


I thought I'd use it to click jump to the next gate while I refill a drink or take a quick bathroom break.


What are the rules regarding this? I know that programs that do complex things like mining (lol) are banned obviously. But what about an auto clicker? All it does is just click the mouse.


Thanks!

Yeah this will get you in trouble. You made what is considered a keystroke macro. They can be made very complex or very simple, but a macro is still a macro, and they are not allowed per the EULA/ToS. Once it gets detected, your accountt can be banned, or at the very least, strongly warned.

Its addressed right at the top of the this list by GM Karidor.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=117249#post117249

You didn't answer my question either, how isn't it overpowered?

So its okay if an account does something it normally could? Regardless if it is manually possible or not?

By virtue of not being overpowered, since you refuse to show that it is. My answer is in your lack of answer.

So: how is it overpowered?

If it's not manually possible, the account can't normally do it and it's not allowed. That's why travelling between multiple gates without the use of either the autopilot or being at the keyboard is not allowed.

How can twenty accounts be used in perfect harmony "manually"?

Through the use of a good FC.

You bailed out on the question: how is it overpowered?

Whether it is overpowered or not is irrelevent.

But it is overpowered.

Multiboxers have to click. Previously CCP have stated that as long as a physical click happens it doesn't matter how many simultaneous client clicks that generates, but if a click is generated without a physical click, then it's bannable. so what you have, which is essentially an autopilot bot, is very very bannable.

If I can find the CCP quote I'll link it.

But it is overpowered. Multiboxing incursions/WHs makes probably the most ISK per hour out of anything else.... and is only possible with ISboxing.

Don't even bother arguing with the ISBoxers. They will fight tooth and nail telling you that they could do the same thing without the third-party software, but they can't; which is why they defend/use ISBoxer in the first place.

That's something I never quite understood.

The Multiboxer says he earned twenty times more than with his one single account, but then he has 20 accounts. All those accounts need to be plexed, the toons need equipmnent etc.

In the end wouldn't he earn just as much as if he were in a corp with 20 (very well organized) players?

Multiboxers have to click. Previously CCP have stated that as long as a physical click happens it doesn't matter how many simultaneous client clicks that generates, but if a click is generated without a physical click, then it's bannable. so what you have, which is essentially an autopilot bot, is very very bannable.

If I can find the CCP quote I'll link it.

So your argument is irrelevant then. Goodie.

Aaaa.. what?
That made absolutely no sense.

Automation per definition also includes methods or tools which reduce human workload for operating machines, cars etc - thus is clearly EULA violation.

That's something I never quite understood.

The Multiboxer says he earned twenty times more than with his one single account, but then he has 20 accounts. All those accounts need to be plexed, the toons need equipmnent etc.

In the end wouldn't he earn just as much as if he were in a corp with 20 (very well organized) players?

but as long as it requires 1:1 human input rather than make use of machine-genrateed input, it doesn't qualify for the only definition that matters: the EULA one, according to which multiboxing is not a violation.

You made the argument that multiboxing was overpowered.
When you couldn't articulate in what way it was overpowered, you claimed that it was irrelevant whether it was or not.

That makes your argument irrelevant. It's very simple to make sense of, really.

GǪbut as long as it requires 1:1 human input rather than make use of machine-genrateed input, it doesn't qualify for the only definition that matters: the EULA one, according to which multiboxing is not a violation.

the first 6 hours of the month are used to pay for the plex, after that the income is over a hundred million an hour for each account. For a vanguard ISBOXER thats about 10 times a 100 mil or a billion an hour. Theres over 600 hours a month and a lot of incursion guys grind till they can't talk. Its hard to believe, its like they are earning real money or are forced labor. a couple hundred hours a month wouldn't surprise me. Sure theres ammo to buy and ships to replace but thats still a few titans a month. Next thing you know the guy is multiboxing 10 titans and his alliance of 10 guys has taken over the universe.

And to answer some one elses prattle, THAT by any definition is overpowered.

Umm no. You are wrong.. again.

The argument has always been that ISboxer is automation and it lets players do something that they cannot do manually.

1:1 what?

Like I stated before, CCP only allows it because profitable like hell not becaust its not automation.

Uhm, yes. I'm still right. As demonstrated by every single official communication on the matter.

and that argument has always been factually incorrect since it ignores both reality and every definition that matters.

If you click a button, all that happens is that you click a button.

except that CCP happily foregoes profit to uphold the rule against automation. State is as much as you like, it is completely contradicted and disproven by reality.

You've still not answered the question: How many accounts do you play on?

but not for the reason of their excuses but just because they want the money.

Which matters? I tell you what matters -> your money from 20 isboxed accounts.

if this would be true, noone would use it.

more hurfblurf in lack of arguments?

Just don't bother arguing with Tippia, plain and simple. You, I, and anyone else with a shred of sense in their brains understands that clicking on one client and having that click broadcasted to 19 other clients is automation. It is just that simple.

She will argue the point until she is blue in the face, because yes, she does use it, and yes, profits from it greatly, and does not want it to go away.

In the end all of those accounts end up lining CCP's pockets, hence the stance they take on ISBoxing. Just be content with the fact that you don't exploit the game, others do, and it's beyond your control.

Obviously the game is not designed to have one person controlling 20 accounts, else there would be an in-game, non 3rd party way of doing so. If the ISBoxers want to be delusional and hide behind "Well CCP says its ok", so be it. You and I both know its a form of botting, even if there is one person controlling the 19 bots. If they ruin your game experience so much, move on to another game.

If I would even consider using 20 accounts to play a frickin game, I would need to take a serious step back and re-examine my life.

If the game means so much to them that they need to play 20 accounts at the same time using 3rd party software and you have fun just playing a video game .............. Well, you win by default, my friend.

So I've made this little program that will click my mouse for me every 3 seconds.


I thought I'd use it to click jump to the next gate while I refill a drink or take a quick bathroom break.


What are the rules regarding this? I know that programs that do complex things like mining (lol) are banned obviously. But what about an auto clicker? All it does is just click the mouse.


Thanks!

What? Could you please rephrase that as a coherent sentence.

which is proven false by the fact that CCP happily get rid of accounts that could be making them money. So how do you square that fact with your presumed reasoning?

It is true, and that's why people use it: because it doesn't automate anything and requires manual input, and thus don't break the rules.

Just because you can't counter an argument doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Please try again: how do you square the very simple and much-publicised fact that they will happily jettison thousands of accounts with the presumption that they only allow multiboxing because it requires lots of accounts?

She will argue the point until she is blue in the face, because yes, she does use it, and yes, profits from it greatly, and does not want it to go away.

If Y'All would quit quoting Tipia, I wouldn't even know she's still here. Just click on her name and select hide posts. after a page goes by we can continue a real conversation.

Until then we need James to start selling boxer permits and it would be nice if our content creators would create a boxer geddon for us to play.

So I've made this little program that will click my mouse for me every 3 seconds.


I thought I'd use it to click jump to the next gate while I refill a drink or take a quick bathroom break.


What are the rules regarding this? I know that programs that do complex things like mining (lol) are banned obviously. But what about an auto clicker? All it does is just click the mouse.


Thanks!

I talked to the GMs and they weren't very helpful. They were so vague and wouldn't confirm or deny anything.

They directed me to the EULA and technically what I want to do should be okay. However the ELUA is so vague also that it raises uncertainty.

I think if somebody is allowed to ISbox 20+ accounts and make billions of isk, this shouldn't really be cared about either.

I'm not one to ignore people just because they hold an opposing point of view. What you're asking for is an echo chamber of people that condemn ISBoxer, not a discussion. You've already decided that it's 'bad' and you aren't interested in discussion. Fortunately, you're wrong, that much is obvious, as is the fact that you're not very good, nor are you interested in learning. Which is good, because it means CCP will ignore your opinion entirely.

As a single account holder myself, I'm on record for talking out against multiboxers in the past. Unlike you, however, I'm capable of reason, and changed my opinion when presented with new information, as a result of actual discussion with multiple points of view. I listened to opposing points of view, and eventually conceded that multiboxing, even with ISBoxer, gives no one any special advantage.

Anyway, you won't find an echo chamber on GD. If you want that, I'd suggest checking out Answers in Genesis, see if they have a forum there or something.

1. The EULA is very clear that any form of AUTOMATION is prohibited. What you do is automation, as you set it up to do things without your personal input.

All this fuss over not wanting to be at the keyboard to fly your ship.

Why even play the game?

2. You think that ISBoxer is automation, which is untrue. It just copies the MANUAL input over multiple clients and thus is not automated. If said person would walk away from the keyboard, all 20+ accounts would do NOTHING.

+1. Seems like a lot of talk to figure out if someone can implement their own form of autopilot.

Seems a silly way to play a game to me, but I'm a bit simple that way.

I wish CCP would remove autopilot all together. But that's a whole different discussion.