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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
0
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Posted - 2014.03.23 21:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Im sorry probe spam takes a toon with skills a slot on a ship probes in space and clicking a button over and over again. Discovery scanner requires nothing. One is a problem one is the way things have always been im missing why the hell u would nerf probes?? who the hell told u probe spam was a problem???? as much as a problem as d-scan spam if ur trying to kill someone yeah. So why don't we just nerf the fuckin d-scan too so ships don't show up for 2 mins. This is a terrible idea please just fix the discovery scanner and leave probes the hell alone. You guys broke this **** probe spam was never considered a problem by anyone.....fix what u broke and leave probes alone ffs. Just leave WH Alone fix the discover scan and leave us alone there are literally 1000s of broken things in the game WH isn't one of them just go make new space and leave us alone after u fix discovery scan please. |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
0
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Posted - 2014.03.23 21:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
AutumnWind1983 wrote:mynnna wrote:Realistically, while I'm not actually a wormhole resident myself, I can't help but wonder how enjoyable it will be to get wrecked simply because you had zero indication attackers were incoming. I'm thinking, even to people who do enjoy a good fight and aren't just farming away to their heart's content, that the answer would be "not very". And that just re-emphasizes how "you can't get this intel no matter what you do" is a problem. If you were spamming dscan while site running, which you should be, you'd have just as much warning as you did pre-odyssey. live in a wh much? tackle in wh is cloaky t3s u will have no warning unless u get lucky and the probe hits him b4 he cloaks.....dscan is useless in a wh vs ppl that know what they are doing probes and hole control is the only way to mitigate risk. These actions require things to be done by the player that makes it balanced. when u make it so u cant see an incoming static for minutes you are pretty much ensuring the death of the defenders. esp the poor miners lol |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
3
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Posted - 2014.03.24 15:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
AutumnWind1983 wrote:Deeone wrote:AutumnWind1983 wrote:mynnna wrote:Realistically, while I'm not actually a wormhole resident myself, I can't help but wonder how enjoyable it will be to get wrecked simply because you had zero indication attackers were incoming. I'm thinking, even to people who do enjoy a good fight and aren't just farming away to their heart's content, that the answer would be "not very". And that just re-emphasizes how "you can't get this intel no matter what you do" is a problem. If you were spamming dscan while site running, which you should be, you'd have just as much warning as you did pre-odyssey. live in a wh much? tackle in wh is cloaky t3s u will have no warning unless u get lucky and the probe hits him b4 he cloaks.....dscan is useless in a wh vs ppl that know what they are doing probes and hole control is the only way to mitigate risk. These actions require things to be done by the player that makes it balanced. when u make it so u cant see an incoming static for minutes you are pretty much ensuring the death of the defenders. esp the poor miners lol Yes, I've lived in one for a while. If the attacking fleet is all cloakies, they're gimping their fits and you should have a good chance in a fight. If you're mining in a wh you're doing it wrong. Get a venture, suck gas, and accept you'll die some times.
so im sure your corp would used the same tackle it uses on sieged dreads that it would on say rattlers and tengus in a c4.......I said TACKLE is cloaky t3s. If u dont understand thats just the part of the fleet that holds u down while their friends come im sorry. just cuz the first 5 guys in are cloaky dont mean the whole fleet is ffs. i get u guys want easy dread kills with this change but come on think about whats good for balance not just ganking. |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
4
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Posted - 2014.03.24 16:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Gustava Risalo wrote:There is one inherent problem with all of this hurf blurf about Risk vs reward. You gain the ability to roll holes unannounced until you find a nice target you can kill then you have the suprise factor on your side for killing them.
Where is your risk?
You get to pick your targets so you aren't going to take on anything your gang can't handle. You aren't going to roll holes without having the majority of your fleet on standby and have a fairly accurate idea of fleet composition. So where is your risk? You get nothing but the rewards of the kills and the fact that you can make even more isk when you run sites.
Also don't feed me the bs about how you will engange anything or you won't pick a fight you won't win. Thats a load of garbage. Yeah, pvpers never risk their ships by warping into a sleeper site full without full knowledge of their opponent. When you try to kill someone in sleeper site you don't know how many people they have logged off in their system, you don't know how many capital ships they can bring in on a moments notice. Yes, ganks will still happen but to say that pvp oriented players don't have a risk when they initiate a fight is ridiculous.
under the new system u have 5 mins to gather perfect intel b4 they even know your there yeah totally balanced. Get rid of the stupid discovery changes and give us back the balanced system we had b4. tbh 70% of the holes I used to jump into with ppl farming there were no probes out. Most of the time probe spammers are in caps and stuck for a set time anyway. Just getting rid of discovery scan is enuf. yeah probe spam is boring to do that's why a lot of ppl just don't do it.........not to mention if I roll my hole and decide I don't like what I see on the other side I can just roll it again without ever having to worry about it being scanned down..........this is just ccp trying to say there was always a problem and it wasn't their system that broke things when in reality their system broke wh pvp. now they want to see if they mess it up even more. |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
4
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Posted - 2014.03.24 16:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Nothing wrong with it from our perspective, sure, but Fozzie said they wanted a design which wouldn't encourage probe spam, and anything which reduces RSI and doesn't eat into the lifespan of my left-click is welcome
Besides, with good D-scanning it's hard for, say, a gang of cloaky ambush tech3s to sneak through a K162 unnoticed anyway. Only marginally less so than if you have eyes on it. So I don't really see that the inability of the "defending" side to pick it up instantly would make that big an impact on their odds of getting caught and ganked.
In any case, as things stand there's a minimum time between when the wormhole spawns and when anybody can scan it down anyway, so if you only spawn it when you've got a fleet ready to blitz through...
I don't see that it would change much, is my point. Good and disciplined corps would just adapt, find a new way to gather the same intel and all that the development effort would accomplish is forcing the players to do more clicking to get more or less the same result. And the guys who aren't smart enough to adapt like that are already getting caught with their pants down anyway.
Now if you want to propose that both the K162 AND any ships that come through it should be invisible to both probes and D-scan for, say, twenty minutes and one minute (during that 20 minutes) respectively, then that might genuinely increase the amount of uncertainty and fog-of-war in W-space. Newly-spawned K162s might in that case pose a genuine threat to the security of anything in that system regardless of how vigilant they're being. The proposal as floated without the ships also inheriting some kind of invisibility still leaves open loopholes that would cause nothing to really change.
so instead of having probes in space I should just have to have an alt in d scan range of a randomly spawning wh........that makes a lot of sense.......jesus I guess ppl would just stop using large systems.........and you ppl do realize that a new k162 is already wont show up till it gets jumped thru the first time right??? If u roll a brand new hole u have plenty of time b4 it opens on the other side if no one jumps thru........ |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
5
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Posted - 2014.03.24 21:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Two step wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote: I am sorry Ali but I don't know who you talked to but I seriously doubt you've seriously considered all options. The change is going to be terrible and only favors PvP. if CCP only wants to favor PvP, they should never have introduced PvE in wormholes in the first place but the fact is that it's there in large bulks.
I am sorely disappointed by the post you just made...
Oh dearie me, god forbid w-space has any of that evil PVP in it. I know when I think "Where can I go to PVE in safety?" the first thing that comes to mind is in w-space. Come on. The whole point of w-space is that the PVE is supposed to be tough enough that even if you get jumped you at least have a reasonable shot at fighting back. People fail to gank site runners all the time. I've been on both sides of a failed site gank more than 20 times. Perhaps if people are getting ganked more they might have to think outside the box and set traps of their own? Perhaps they might have to have more than the bare minimum number of people to run the site? Does that sound like a bad thing?
yeah because ccp broke discovery b4 that we had no problem ganking ppl. like I said b4 at least 70% of ppl farming didn't spam probes b4 and I seriously doubt they will start now........your right tho instead of dropping probes I should have to set drag bubbles and decloaking cans in every site I want to run(totally balanced to your just being able to roll a static and warp in on people b4 anyone even knows there is a new connection I mean that takes the same effort as setting 100s of bubbles and moving them all the time right?).......ppl complaining that spamming dscan and probes isn't fun......that's why it dont get done.....that's why its vigilance. you can have all the fun u want ignorance is bliss just dont cry when the cloaky t3s get u. there is no way that a site that ppl can come thru from a different system should not show up on probe scans. that's just crazy. all that needs to be done is to rollback discovery scan and most wh residents are back to happy and waiting for the pos changes......there is plenty of pvp in wh. we have a whole community that tells ppl they will evict you if you dont give good fights........I find it more disturbing however that you seem to think that larger entities need to be taking wh......this is like the last place u can get 0.0 style small gang warfare(20v20ish and smaller) and tbh most of us would like to keep it that way. its why we dont live in null. and one last point about "god forbid there be pvp in wh"......im gonna go out on a limb and say that PER CAPITIA WH has the most pvp in eve. If probes are nerfed like this ganks will spike then the pvp will fall off as everyone just moves out cuz the only profitable thing Is rolling your static looking for suckers. I guess that's how u get a big blue doughnut in wh space as well.......well played ccp well played |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
5
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Posted - 2014.03.24 21:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nightingale Actault wrote:I'm convinced no thought went into how this would affect the area of the game that this is proposed for. Unless this is a deliberate bait and switch I am worried, and can see why many wormholers are very adamant that no changes be made. not no changes even the pve ppl like me are asking for a revert to b4 discovery scanner. and that opens me to more ganks but u know its balanced. If I dont put out probes I wont know. unlike now where I just have to switch between discovery and dscan for instant updates. I mean seriously if we are gonna make it so stuff dont show up on probes for no reason lets just remove dscan and probes all together you know cuz clicking that button is annoying. besides my pve fleet is combat fit I welcome visitors I just prefer that I be able to see them coming. its just dumb that someone could jump thru a fresh hole and probe all your system but u cant see the hole they came out of. But this great idea about nerfing probes is just crazy, lore breaking, and completely unbalanced. Im all for a full redo of how wh work but it needs to be a full redo not some kind of damage control from the devs saying oh we didn't break this there was an underlying problem in that you could actively gain this same information thru probes.....so basically actively probing is the same as having your ship just tell you on discovery scan in ccps eyes. |
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