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Deimos vs Ishtar

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O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.24 03:16:00 - [1] - Quote Greeting pilots, First I'll like to start out by saying this isn't a biotch cry post. I'm just pointing out a few facts and suggesting a change. I would like to start out with the Deimos. What is a Deimos good for? What are it's roles? Shield or armor tank? Rails or blasters? What about an Ishtar? After asking myself these questions, I can't find a reason for anyone to fly a Deimos. It's a good brawling ship but come across a neuting vexor, VNI, or Ishtar with neuts (or any med neuting ship) and your done for. But what if you rail fit it? Rail Deimos are amazing, problem is you need to keep your distance and must be shield tanked. A vexor navy issue and Ishtar will make short work of your Deimos due to the mad buff sentries received during the past updates. Since I am against nerfing, I am proposing a buff to the Deimos. An Ishtar and it's sister don't need ammo for drones, don't need cap for drones, can fit a crazy tank since drones Don't take CPU and pwg, can switch damage types, can apply DPS while neuted, and the ship can brawl/snipe at the same damn time. I would like the Deimos to hit harder and have more cap with a faster cap recharge(15% on both cap buffs). Let's up the hybrid damage to 7.5% per gallente cruiser lvl and 7.5% per heavy assault cruiser lvl. 10% more hp per rep every HAC level or keep the 7.5% but add 7.5% more cap per cap charge per HAC lvl. That way the ship can truly shine and be on par with the Ishtar. Make it to where you don't want this ship to catch you in brawling range. As it sits right now you're better off in a VNI or Ishtar than a Die Most. Also plz fix reactive armor. It should adjust to bleed damage and it should adjust as the damage is coming in and not every cycle. Finally it you get 12 em, 10thermal and 1000kentic bleed damage. It should shift everything to the most bleed damage. If your getting 300em and 300exp bleed should be 50/50 split. 300em 100ex and 600 exp should be 30/10/60 of the total 60% resistance increase. Every attack should instantly change your resistance. Please leave feed back.
Lucine Delacourt The Covenant of Blood 115	Posted - 2014.03.24 03:43:00 - [2] - Quote Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors.
HiddenPorpoise Under Dark 177	Posted - 2014.03.24 04:01:00 - [3] - Quote O2 jayjay wrote: Shield or armor tank? Troll post is meh. 2/10
O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.24 04:47:00 - [4] - Quote Lucine Delacourt wrote: Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors. Not true. You 4 medium neuts are on you with web and scram your done for. Good luck tanked his berserkers
O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.24 04:48:00 - [5] - Quote HiddenPorpoise wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: Shield or armor tank? Troll post is meh. 2/10 You must not have flown a 250rail Deimos. Your missing out on a vagabond/cynabul killer. Sucks for you sir
Samillian Angry Mustellid 470	Posted - 2014.03.24 09:16:00 - [6] - Quote Lucine Delacourt wrote: Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors. This is also my experience. OP, no ship can deal with every threat. No matter what you fly and how you fit it your going to meet something that can counter you sooner or later. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.24 11:02:00 - [7] - Quote Samillian wrote: Lucine Delacourt wrote: Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors. This is also my experience. OP, no ship can deal with every threat. No matter what you fly and how you fit it your going to meet something that can counter you sooner or later. no matter how you fit the deimos it will never be able to brawl against a neuting vexor. the drone damage will tear it to peices and the neut will stop all reps. also you cannot rep or shoot or tank when he neuts you out. you can fit rails but it will still out dps and out track you with sentries. the Deimos need to be buffed. feel free to post a fit that you think can take on a neuting VNI or ishtar.
TAckermassacker New Republic The Initiative. 48	Posted - 2014.03.24 11:10:00 - [8] - Quote the Deimos really needs a doomsday device.
O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.24 11:14:00 - [9] - Quote TAckermassacker wrote: the Deimos really needs a doomsday device. You must be a drone guy. fact is fact and the Deimos is pointless as a brawler to the ishtar and VNI.
TehCloud Mastercard. 220	Posted - 2014.03.24 12:03:00 - [10] - Quote Active Tanked ships have problems against neuts? Wow that never occured to me. Thanks OP for creating such a useful thread. My Condor costs less than that module!
Corraidhin Farsaidh Hello-There 302	Posted - 2014.03.24 12:19:00 - [11] - Quote O2 jayjay wrote: TAckermassacker wrote: the Deimos really needs a doomsday device. You must be a drone guy. fact is fact and the Deimos is pointless as a brawler to the ishtar and VNI. Then shouldn't you simply not engage VNI or ishtar with a deimos and use a ship that can counter them if you expect to face them?
O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.24 12:37:00 - [12] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: TAckermassacker wrote: the Deimos really needs a doomsday device. You must be a drone guy. fact is fact and the Deimos is pointless as a brawler to the ishtar and VNI. Then shouldn't you simply not engage VNI or ishtar with a deimos and use a ship that can counter them if you expect to face them? meh im done
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire 552	Posted - 2014.03.24 13:10:00 - [13] - Quote For one, they are completely different. Ishtar deploys guns and then needs to stay within its drones' range. Deimos got mounted guns that move along. That along makes for quite some differences, as a deimos in perma-mwd-orbit [25-28km] still suffers tracking issues, the ishtar does not. However, many skirmishing fights involve warping off, warping back, warping up to a perch or down to a wreck. It's those situations where the Deimos is simply favorable - in near any sustained engagement. They both fly completely different, not only cause slots. An Ishtar is usually shieldtanked, or rarely AAR+plate with webscram and lastly the dualbuffered fleetvariation (double LSE, 1600plate with spare PG). It usually uses sentries, thus is near always a longrange-dps-boat. The Deimos though got quite a plethora of fits, active shieldtanked with blasters and doublenano, raildeimos either with shieldbuffer, AAR-honourtank or actually plated (though I dislike that one personally), brawldeimos with either badassplate or dualrep - you name it. There are a lot of things only one of the two ships can accomplish, given you pay attention to the deimos vastly superior capacitor and armorrep-bonus. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec" Moving pictures
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra 383	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:44:00 - [14] - Quote O2 jayjay wrote: Lucine Delacourt wrote: Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors. Not true. You 4 medium neuts are on you with web and scram your done for. Good luck tanking his berserkers So... Let's see. He's got 4 medium neuts, so he's gotta be cap injected. So web/scram/booster/prop. Alright. He's running one booster, so he's not active tanking (at least not if he's trying to run 4 medium neuts). So you don't need to worry about burning him down right instantly, you have a some time to kill him as long as you can stay alive. Now you, as you are active tanking, should be cap injected as well. So inject, fire guns and rep. If you can survive long enough against him just by repping on cap injection, you'll kill him because he's buffered. Buffer also sounds pretty weak if he's running 4 medium neuts. Also, the Deimos is pretty easily one of the top HACs. Personally I'd say it's the second best, second only to the Ishtar. If you actually intend to buff the Deimos, what does that mean for all the other HACs? Are they going to just get all their stats ******* doubled so they can stay competitive? Imagine how much even just a Deimos buff would mess up the meta game.
Gawain Edmond Angry Mustellid 56	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:33:00 - [15] - Quote oh no a ship that has a counter it must be broken and buffed? :S By the same argument i'm suggesting that the curse needs a buff because sheild tanked missile boats are a HUGE problem for a curse and there for the curse is broken and needs buffing I suggest that it be improved in the following balanced ways 1) the curse be made into an i-win button where you undock and all things instantly explode 2) it be immune to everything 3) dancing girls appear around your ship and proclaim your godlyness to the rest of the system and lastly 4) you become immune to concord
Batelle Tymast Industries 150th 2340	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:21:00 - [16] - Quote O2 jayjay wrote: It's a good brawling ship but come across a neuting vexor, VNI, or Ishtar with neuts (or any med neuting ship) and your done for. Then you must be flying a Deimos without a cap booster, meaning you are terrible and deserve to explode. Quote: But what if you rail fit it? Rail Deimos are amazing, problem is you need to keep your distance and must be shield tanked. Or you can be armor tanked w/ rails and be awesome. Quote: I would like the Deimos to hit harder and have more cap with a faster cap recharge(15% on both cap buffs) Like all other HACs, the deimos got huge buffs to its cap along with the rebalance. The deimos also does plenty of damage. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Maxemus Payne THE BOARD OF EDUCATION 12	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:20:00 - [17] - Quote Try using a cap booster. They really do work.
HiddenPorpoise Under Dark 177	Posted - 2014.03.25 01:10:00 - [18] - Quote Okay, you're not a troll; that worries me deeply. I'm a drone guy; I fly an ishtar constantly, nothing can fit PvA the way an ishtar can. When I do something for pure PvP I switch to the deimos. I enjoy actually hitting targets without a tackle handling it for me.
O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.25 02:30:00 - [19] - Quote HiddenPorpoise wrote: Okay, you're not a troll; that worries me deeply. I'm a drone guy; I fly an ishtar constantly, nothing can fit PvA the way an ishtar can. When I do something for pure PvP I switch to the deimos. I enjoy actually hitting targets without a tackle handling it for me. You're an idiot
Liam Inkuras Aunenen Civil Liberties Union 904	Posted - 2014.03.25 02:43:00 - [20] - Quote Rail Deimos doesn't need to be shield tanked, and honestly is worse than the armor tanked rail variant. Try this armor rail fit out: Deimos - MAAR Damage Controll II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener Medium Ancilliary Armor Repairer Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I True Sansha Warp Disruptor Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Medium Capacitor Booster II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Hybri Locus Coordinator II Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Fly it in a small gang with dedicated anti-support to deal with fast tackle and you'll be golden. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Caleb Seremshur Capital Storm. The Storm Collective 214	Posted - 2014.03.25 04:57:00 - [21] - Quote In your 500 mil hac that can ve killed a huginn and curse for much less. LP store weapon cost rebalance
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra 385	Posted - 2014.03.25 05:53:00 - [22] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: In your 500 mil hac that can ve killed a huginn and curse for much less. You can always fly the ghetto version: [Deimos, Armor Railer] Damage Control II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Armor Explosive Hardener II Adaptive Nano Plating II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 Warp Disruptor II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 But the Fed Navy web is probably pretty nice for keeping the typical cheap tackle off of you.
Liam Inkuras Aunenen Civil Liberties Union 904	Posted - 2014.03.25 17:52:00 - [23] - Quote Yep standard T2 version works, however a faction web is almost mandatory to keep small tackle at bay, even if it's only a dread Guristas web. Most of the pimp mods on there are for fitting purposes, which can be remedied with an Adaptive Nano Plating rather than EANM. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Bertral Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:50:00 - [24] - Quote O2 jayjay wrote: HiddenPorpoise wrote: [...] You're an idiot No, you are. The deimos tanks better, does more dps and actually hits cruiser-sized targets very well. Fit a cap booster if you're afraid of neutralizers. If you aren't afraid, fit a cap booster anyway. The only downside to the blaster deimos is it's range. The ishtar could "just" stay out of range. Then the deimos would just warp away. Seriously, what are the complaints, here ? By the way, saying that a ship needs to be changed by comparing it to another is ridiculous. "Oh ****, the retribution can kite a vengeance !" Well, guess what ? It's meant to be. It is it's purpose. Deal with it.
O2 jayjay Tit-EE Sprinkles Stratagem. 10	Posted - 2014.03.26 02:58:00 - [25] - Quote Bertral wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: HiddenPorpoise wrote: [...] You're an idiot No, you are. The deimos tanks better, does more dps and actually hits cruiser-sized targets very well. Fit a cap booster if you're afraid of neutralizers. If you aren't afraid, fit a cap booster anyway. The only downside to the blaster deimos is it's range. The ishtar could "just" stay out of range. Then the deimos would just warp away. Seriously, what are the complaints, here ? By the way, saying that a ship needs to be changed by comparing it to another is ridiculous. "Oh ****, the retribution can kite a vengeance !" Well, guess what ? It's meant to be. It is it's purpose. Deal with it. You're dumb
Stephanie Rosefire Starfleet Academy Red Squad 21	Posted - 2014.03.26 05:22:00 - [26] - Quote Samillian wrote: Lucine Delacourt wrote: Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors. This is also my experience. OP, no ship can deal with every threat. No matter what you fly and how you fit it your going to meet something that can counter you sooner or later. the OP is saying that theres no incentive to fly a deimos... the ishtar is better in almost every way, except maybe some very minor things
Bertral Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:28:00 - [27] - Quote O2 jayjay wrote: Bertral wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: HiddenPorpoise wrote: [...] You're an idiot [...] You're dumb OP is a troll, case closed.
Xavier Thorm Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 117	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:51:00 - [28] - Quote This probably is a waste of my time but... OP, if you really believe there is an imbalance in the game that negatively affects a ship you would like to be able to fly, you should take the time to make logical, coherent arguments for why your opinion is correct. This means addressing critiques of your complaint with objectivity and depth, as opposed to calling your critics dumb. If the criticisms raised are actually flawed, you should be able to easily show this, and in doing so lend more credence to your argument. If you fail to do so, you make yourself look ignorant, thus making your complaint look irrelevant.
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra 386	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:21:00 - [29] - Quote Bertral wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: Bertral wrote: O2 jayjay wrote: HiddenPorpoise wrote: [...] You're an idiot [...] You're dumb OP is a troll, case closed. But his arguments are so intelligent and compelling! How could you possibly make such a scandalous claim? I demand you retract this statement posthaste, you foul miscreant.
Daoden The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2014.03.27 00:10:00 - [30] - Quote I love all the posts about certain ships being under powered or easy to get killed in (see freighter posts daily) and then posts like these about combat ship yet I NEVER see 1 person who gets DD by a titan in a carrier or Dread complain about being killed in 1 hit. That right there doesn't make any sense to me.....

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