No, its like we will torture you until you leave the Bonus Room, and we win.

Have you read the post linked in my sig?

I encourage you to do so.

You misunderstand how the Bonus Room functions.

It is not ten songs.
It is an unending line of arbitrary demands, any of which if you refuse to perform or choose to leave the Bonus Room, Erotica1 wins.

This process is hastened by abusing the victim during it, and thereby made "amusing" to a group of players who get off on listening to the suffering of the victim trying to cope with what is being done to him.

There is no actual way to win, unless you are an associate of Erotica1 and are running through the Bonus Room for purposes of creating a theater so that he can maintain the false legitimacy that anyone can ever (legitimately) win the Bonus Room.

Its important that you understand the difference.

Are you the Bonus Room escrow agent responsible for the twitch channel associated with the room, named "Kristallnacht"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

The signs of a psychopath according to phsychologytoday.com are:

1: Uncaring - being callous, a lack of empathy
2: "lack of emotion, especially the social emotions, such as shame, guilt, and embarrassment"
3: Irresponsibility, including showing GÇ£blame externalization", such as blaming the victim for one's abusive actions
4: Overconfidence: "The PCL describes sociopaths as possessing a 'grandiose sense of self worth.'"

Sounds quite a bit like the behaviors in the recording that started this firestorm.

Source: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mindmelding/201301/what-is-psychopath-0
(Relax, I didn't cite Wikipedia.)

There is a difference between harassment with profit, and harassment simply for the sake of harrasment. In the event of a gank, the ganker profits. Both in killmails, and (potentially) in material goods.

In this case the harasser already received all material goods that could be acquired, and further harassment was done simply for the pleasure of the harasser. API's were even used to ensure, there was no other material gain to be had before the harassment began.

It's gameplay? I thought since it happened out of game CCP didn't have any responsibility to do anything about what happened. If it was "game play" doesn't that mean that CCP should police it?

...says the random person on the random forums...
And self-answer surveys are notoriously accurate.

The people in question may not be sociopaths in real life, but their in game actions reflect a completely different personality.

Omg, plz, stfu and grow up first.

Bare minimum? Profit of killmails, potential profit of harvested modules. Plus the ganker holds no "hostage" power over the gankee in the form of all of his EVE-ly assets.

Just for everyone's information that didn't already know it, the poster above is one of Erotica1's escrow agents, and also runs a twitch channel for distribution of video/audio on the Bonus Room.

I feel sorry for people that cant distinguish inside game and OUT OF GAME.

1) GIMME!

2) I like Battleships. GIMME!

Harassment for the sake of harassment has no benefit to the harasser other than amusement. A ganker profits in game. Killmails. Loot. This "bonus room" has no in game rewards.

If you think that the guy in the recording actually might have gotten his stuff back, you should go check through every other recording of the "bonus room". How many of them actually got their stuff back? How many flipped out and raged, much to the entertainment of the harassers? If any of them did get their stuff back, how long did it take?

And I'd like to mention real quick, this guy got kicked out of Goonswarm, the noted harassers of highsec. Even Goon's standards higher than this.

If we're just going to repeat ourselves, did any "clients" actually gain? If not, it's not a business. Even in casinos people occasionally win, if you can't find an example of someone "winning" the bonus room, it isn't a business.

Erotica 1 is the person who runs the "bonus room" so how is he not relevant? That's like talking about a country but not mentioning the person who rules it. By characterizing Erotica 1 I'm showing the character of the "game" or "business" he is running, your honor.

Therein lies the *real* issue - a scammer who preys on the stupidity of people coming into Jita, using a character that never undocks, is largely immune to any form of meaningful retribution.

It's too *safe* a profession.

What exactly is required of a non-affiliated participant in order to win?

Oh noes, slippery slope argument! There is a difference between a negative comment on a fansite and falsely promising someone their stuff back (which they WERE stupid to contract over in the first place) if they submit to the harassment of the harasser.

And also yes if they were not taking suitable measures to ensure the safety of their customers.

It's not at all the same. Recovering from a reputation hit is as easy as creating a new alt.

Ok, so that isn't.

Then what is?

So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA.

Sounds like they're torturing CCP Gargant and he's enjoying it. They're even physically restraining a player in game. Uh oh, bans inc.

People talking about how E1 "clearly crossed a line" seem to be anathema to articulating clearly what that line is. And more importantly, what it isn't.

Well to people like me, Erotica 1, and others: It's just space pixels, who cares.

To people like Sohkar, I guess they're a huge invest of time and energy and have personal value.

Good thing no one is responsible for the subjective feelings of anyone else.

Look what Microsoft is doing in cases like this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26766098

EVE should do similar.

Cheap scams preying on newbies not so much.

Already exists in form of Report Bot button.

That one isnt abused at all.

Has nothing to do with pixels. Has everything to do with a mayonnaise and humiliation fetishist.

You still get all his assets though, if they are stupid/dumb enough to comply.
And I applaud you for that. Gf.

But why the whole Bonus Room thing thereafter?

Nothing is impossible.

A reworked system that colors a player's name in local based on a number and type of accumulated feedback reports is a solid improvement on the current security status mechanic.

Why go to a bonus room after they give you their stuff?

Obviously it would need something to prevent abuse, but the concept is good. In EVE players with a red card could lose forum posting and local posting 'privileges'. No more forum trolls and no more scammers in Jita. Self regulation 4tw.

Nope - it sounds like someone declaring a WH eviction.

Let us stop the cyclic argument and propose changes to make it better. Let us work to FIX what is broken and keep climbing.

That make the point?

m

what's wrong with asking people to write their name in peanut butter on themselves and send proof?

Your tears are so delicious. I hope that clarifies things for you. I may have some crayons lying about or would you prefer I wrote it in peanut butter so you and E1 can read it together.

Because it's just weird. Some fat neckbeard fapping over some other fat neckbeard smearing himself in high fat spread gives me the heebee jeebies.

I consider myself pretty open minded. But this? Nope. Too much for me to picture.

Mr Epeen

I did some more digging since I really wouldn't want my fellow EVE players to be submitted to any form of abuse ever and found this bonus romm to be but the tip of the iceberg.

I'd like to point your attention to this recording of voice comms WTH INGAME FOOTAGE.

Some guy called shedoo or something is really shouting at someone and calling him all sorts of derregatory stuff (he even allmost said that other really mean csm's name).
I hope he got banned for that!
Did he?
Please say yes?

D.

The best part is when he freely left the "torture chamber" and the returned of his own free will. Man what a heartless bastard Erotica is FORCING this guy to leave and come back.

Well I suggest the following.

Step 1

Permanently Ban Eroticas account and make an example of him. Let the Eve community base know that bullying is not tolerated. It does not matter what is in the EULA or TOS, rules or any contracts... If people need rules for morals, let them learn the hard way. Referring to the EULA\TOS as an excuse to bullying others is pathetic. I'm sure I speak for many when I say this, if CCP wants to promote Eve as a platform for Bullying, you can consider many accounts to be closed. I for one, do not want to be apart of a community or game that will accept this filth. To make matters even worse, this recording was released to the public, subject to further humiliation and bullying!

Step 2

Temporary Ban Sohkars account. Simple, people say things when provoked. Yes, it's not acceptable what Sohkar said in the recording. However, this behavior can be expected of "many people" when put in similar situations. You corner a dog, and it's going to bite. The fact is, Sohkar wouldn't of said such things in the first place if he wasn't dragged through the mud for 2 hours. The guy was already scammed, why does 2 hours of bullying need to follow?


I'm just interested for CCP's official response. Surely, they will not allow Eve to be used as a platform for this vile, filthy, inhumane behavior. If so, I'm not so sure if I want to stick around and see what happens in future.

Ok.

What is the correct answer in order to win, to the following question:

"What if this was all just some sort of elaborate scam, what would you do next?"

Yeah. What a load of bull****.

As I expected.

Its completely arbitrary, all of it. You have neither provided evidence that a non-affiliated person has ever won it, or that it even is possible to win it according to "the rules".

If you can't tell me what the correct answer to that question is, which is always presented, then you can't tell me that there is a way to win it either.

Really, the details of this "scam" are so laughably ********. Utterly fail.

I'm all for keeping this thread open in the name of information gathering where another would have been locked hard about 220 pages ago...

But, can't we just silence the trolling? Are the ISD's being told not to monitor this one? (srs Q)

There's debate, and then there's attempted derailing. Well, really, let's be honest: at this point, we can probably say Erotica, the rest of his troupe, and their alts have worked hard to make sure they make up three quarters of the last half of the thread and it's well derailed.

The gameplay that consists of some psychopath using CCP's product as a tool to lure victims to a private site for his sick pleasure?

That gameplay?

Mr Epeen

Go back and read the last 220+ pages and numerous blog posts that are now out there on this subject (Ripard, myself, Mabrik, etc etc). It's been said.

Also, NOT gameplay.

Scamming? Gameplay. Drawing the victim out till he snaps? F**king sick.

OK - I'll take a punt at this one.

Other types of 'tear extraction' - ganking etc is generally about targetting in-game assets in-game. It is an extension of other in-game activities.

This is about enticing someone to an external comms channel for the specific purpose of publically humiliating them.

Why do you quote? None of your responses ever have anything to do with what's above them.

Mr Epeen

Apparently in every Bonus Room the following question is asked as part of the required tasks:

"What if this was all just some sort of elaborate scam, what would you do next?"

So far Kristalll, Riot Girl, Scipio Artelius, Danalee, Xuixien have all been UNABLE to provide the correct answer for this.

If these people, many of which whom are very associated with the Bonus Room, cannot even provide the correct answer, then its not really likely that some random participant they sucker up the victim selection process is going to be able to either, is it.

I know it sad for them.
The ISK they fleece through this, and the suffering they so dearly need to fap to, could all now potentially be lost.

But you will adapt. That is what EVE is about, afterall.

No, just the trolls. Although there might be some collateral damage and we'd lose the frequent posters who aren't trolls (if there are any), but that would be no great loss. 30 red cards would probably be enough to restore the EVE forums to the nice warm fuzzy place they used to be pre-2006.

Yes but in this case, the "victim" got REALLY MAD!!!!

That makes it wrong, because we're all responsible for other people's subjective feelings.

So I had a run in with the bonus room last night. I had jerry rin ask me to join there comms, I said i was in middle of chatting to others and would be a hour. He continued to press for me to join now and not wait this went on for a fair while.

After I finished chatting to others I said I was free and joined there comms I checked the channels and I saw bonus room I got moved to this room and there was 4 to 6 others init already.

I was told straight away I wasn't allowed to record the convo. I asked if this had anything todo with erotica 1 and was told "yeah this is the bonus room" so I just said" I didn't want anything to do with them and would leave", they laughed and I left.

within seconds or minutes at the longest I had them posting on my CSM thread. and then had them spam convo invites to me. I accepted one and said didnt want anything to do with them and left but the spam invites continued till I blocked them.

What I will say is these people are persistent don't give up and will go out there way to troll and get reaction out of you.

I very much wonder just how many other people they have gone after or done this to, to be honest its rather disturbing. On the plus side I do have a list of people in that channel when I was in there. So Maybe i can do something about it in game.

On a separate note if you listen to that recording and can't see its totally ******* out of order I really worry for you.

For being smart.

• For having the foresight to ensure that their marks are called "clients" to make things sound more legitimate.
• For having the foresight to ensure that their clients are treated with the utmost respect, while they're being asked to do things that strip away their dignity, so that everyone else can laugh at them
• For having the foresight to keep their actions within the grey area that is EVE morality (or lack thereof)
• For knowing that this would eventually happen, and making sure to take every precaution to make it hard to nail them for any wrongdoing
• For acting in a way that's vile, yet hard to write rules against. Rules that would inadvertently hammer those who simply partake in the more run of the mill, morally ambiguous stuff like murder, extortion, and theft, that take place in EVE at all times.
• For finding a way of doing something that *feels* too personal, without actually resorting to anything that actually *is* personal

To me, it honestly almost seems like they were trying too hard to keep their noses clean, because they knew that what they were doing was crossing the line.

My gut feel is that that alone... that skirting of rules in order to be able to do something a bit edgier than just run of the mill scamming.... that that is worth seizing assets and banning for. Simply because it feels like they're playing a game with the anti-harassment portion of the rules.

Personally, I think the part that bothers me the most about all of this, is that I'm *in* the "ban 'em" camp, but can't come up with a good explanation for why that wouldn't encompass half of the people playing EVE at any one time.

None of this would be a problem if there was an in game method of "payback" for scammers. As is, they never undock and no amount of chest beating or forum posting will ever "punish" them. Obviously this is a particularly sadistic addition to scamming but most people would be fine with it if they could blow up a bunch of Erotica1's assets against his will.

While I think this whole thing is pretty revolting, I won't lose sleep if no one gets banned. On the other hand I also wouldn't lose sleep if people do.

And to top it off, you start every response with 'So'. That's just ******* annoying.

Mr Epeen

Oh, sounds like you are worried that Im getting closer to nailing you on this.

Trying to stop people leaking evidence that the Bonus Room is infact not winnable by following an objective set of rules.

No, you know the Bonus Room is just a means to torment victims for your pleasure.

The vast majority are alts that will be rerolled if someone starts that kind of propaganda campaign. Furthermore, the effort:effect ratio for combating forever docked scammers is unfeasible. All of this is off topic essentially, no one cares that Erotica1 scammed that dude. They are upset because he and/or his buddies decided to use the scamming as a chance to demean someone to the breaking point.

As I said, if CCP decides it is all above board and do nothing I won't be upset. I also won't be upset if they perma-ban some or all involved.

The scam is over 5 minutes into the two hour recording. Justify the rest of the recording.

I dare you.

Mr Epeen

From the bonus room it was revealed that the player who plays Erotica1 has quite a few alts. Erotica1 could just be used as a trader/scammer and they could play with their many other alts.

Naming yourself after the event that started the mass slaughter of jews...
Seriously sometimes i wonder where society is going with online interaction becoming the norm for a large percentage of people.

Good comment is good....



As a side note.... Has anyone considered what the original guy thinks of all this attention? How the entirety of the community is now using him as a pawn? (Just a thought)

I don't think I would willingly go into a comms situation with erotica even if it wasn't duplex. can't even go back to OP soundbite cause its too greasy

Inb4 he is offered (x) amount of ISK for a rehearsed session of "it's OK how you treated me." All candy and apples!!!

Am I the only one here who can smell the fear of those who are about to get their accounts banned?

Step 1) Pollute the thread with alt posts supporting the argument of "Bullying is acceptable."

Step 2) Offer a large amount of ISK to the victim, to agree for a rehearsed session of "it's OK how you treated me."

Step 3) Offender/s hope/s they don't get their account/s ban hammered...

Step 4) ........

Step 5) Accounts are banned and then we can all finally sing "Hakuna Matata."


Yes, some refer to me a Nostradamus.... selling Tin Foil hats at an all time low price of 10,000,000.00 ISK! Get them while their hot!

Its already out, Erotica has always had zero credibility so any new words are same as the old and only potentially dangerous to future capsuleers that have Eroticas explanation. This thread is the story, its all here, a few points are overworked, a few are under-worked. A balanced reporting couldn't cover much more. Laws evolve out of crimes, where there are no laws to cover it, they are written. Laws are after all of men and not men of laws.

The setup... to have a civil and polite conversation?

Indeed. He has the balls to tell his side and Epeen calls him stupid.

Obvious scam is obvious... Well played ero, you even got me to buy into this. I had the suspicion that this whole thing has been one elaborate troll job. Now I'm almost certain.

This is what I believe most likely happened here:

1) Ero not getting enough attention and getting bored

2) Ero scams guy expecting player base attention, All of these attempts ended up with the OP of these threads getting trolled off the forums.

3) Ero pays a prominent blogger to make a stink about it on his blog. Blogger does so resulting in out cry of the player base resulting in this thread.

4) Ero gets the attention he craves

5) ????

6) profit

We all just fell for an elaborate troll job from an attention *****...

Can we let this thread die now?

Coming late to this, I've worked through about half of the thread (was all I could manage). Nothing I've seen said in it by the defenders of E1 has changed my view of the detestable thing which is the 'bonus room' (which I was aware of long before this particular incident). I don't think it makes any difference what S thinks of it now: he clearly had a different opinion of it when it was happening (as did his wife; is she as sanguine about the whole experience now as he is? How many victims of domestic violence fail to press charges a day later?). In my view, E1 is a sadist and a repeat offender, and I think it reflects badly on CCP that they have so far failed to remove elements like this from the playerbase, after there has been so much documentary evidence of where his being allowed to seek his victims in the game leads. I'm all on Ripard Teg's side on this one (although I wish he'd said 'abuse' rather than 'torture').

Sorry but the issue is not done and dusted.

What was done was against the rules (harassment), damaged CCP's reputation (only have to check the MMO boards to see the response), and if nothing is done to prevent this sort of thing occurring then it will happen again and potentially someone could be harmed, either one of the perpetrators in RL or the victim through self harm.

More disturbingly one of the perpetrators stated in this thread that they're actively competing against other people also doing the same thing and so they're being forced to 'outdo' each other which means the abuse will take the slippery slope of stupidity and potentially become much more serious with more serious consequences.

If CCP does not act on their duty of care towards their playerbase now they are aware of the problem then they could be liable for a portion of any damages if someone did sue. CCP gains nothing but negative publicity and the potential to be sued if they don't act.

They cannot now claim they were not knowledgeable about the activity as a defense.

Then you have problems with your comprehension skills. Nothing much that can be done for that here on the board.

Yeah I'm driven by pure hate. That's why I said I don't believe anyone should be banned, only safeguards put in place. That's pure hate :)

IMO you're driven by a desire to defend your methods of RL harming people for your own sick self gratification and I think that part of you is rather despicable.

I disagree. Harm is not purely physical. Harm can be also pyschological. Harm doesn't have to be permanent, it can be temporary. If someone spits on you in the street and you go home and shower was no harm done? If someone deliberately makes your day miserable at work and you go home and later feel better was no harm done? In both cases harm was done, it was just not permanent and so you couldn't find a remedy in a court for that but its still harm.

Eagerly anticipating the ban hammer.


Sincerely Bloodmyst Ranwar,

xoxoxoxo

Should you go after someone with intent to do harm like say you come at me with a knife. I should not be held accountable for the things I have to do to you to protect myself.

To use your silly logic we would have to go all the way back and blame your parents for bringing you in to this world as a scape goat for the things you do.

You cant blame Sohkar for the situation that E1 created on purpose. Sohkar should be held accountable for any actions he may take after the fact but not for the situation E1 created.

Sohkar should not be the scapegoat.

People need to be held accountable for the things they do, not blame the victim. Would be like saying a **** victim was at fault because of the clothes they wore or the bar they were at.

Good to read that. Ero, do we here something in that way from you as well? I mean, I think sokhar acts like a grown-up here. Do you?

Sure it is. When you said a man slapping his wife for cheating because she put him in that situation. That is your logic.

E1 created and controlled all aspects of the encounter. It would be the exact same thing as me inviting you over to my house where me and my friends planned on kicking your arse. I dont think anyone could fault you should you get mad or broke someones nose fighting back.

Now had you showed up without being invited then I would offer you got what you deserved.

I dont think Sohkor got what he deserved, but I certainly hope E1 gets what he deserves.

Hmmm, so no official response from CCP yet.


Well it's good to know there are no boundaries when it comes to issues such as this. Harassment, bullying and humiliation is accepted in Eve Online.

Will be interesting to see how scams of this nature escalates, considering CCP hasn't given any official response yet.

Can we have a record of that?

Yeah could we have a link to the stream please if its still ongoing? thanks

As previously stated, Harrassment, bullying and humiliation is accepted.... what is next? How far is CCP willing to let this go for?

And that's the reason why CCP should urgently state something to the community about your practics, no matter if you are friend now with sokhar or not. There is something very wrong with you, mate, that scares me. asperger syndrome?

You can read my last post if you want, though I realize this is a completely futile task.

I hope you learn something from this, you're an individual and you are free. Having said that I'm done.

Here's a song for you cyber-thugs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDN4L7cAQf0

See you in Valkyrie if it ever comes out and if you dare

A question for Ero, do you feel that you dealt inappropriately with the marks speech impediment?

This for me was were you behaved badly, the scam etc were fine and worthy of of Eve Online.

Perhaps you can help me out here, why was the mark asked to get a dictionary and read out the meaning of some words?

It was not 'torture' by any definition as far as I am concerned, but it was, to put it mildly, distasteful.

But of course, you already know why, but you choose to ignore it.

That was the part of the Bonus Room experience I have an issue with.

Ero still refuses to clarify if he thinks he went too far with this particular issue or not.

I think you got it right the first time.

He's not going back for seconds he's going back to help them whitewash the first recording.

I guarantee you they get him to apologise for his behaviour last time and say they did nothing wrong.

Some people just don't learn...