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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
503
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's interesting to see how Erotica's behavior is basically a carbon copy of school bully behavior. The bonus room is nothing more than a bully grabbing a kids bag (or coaxing them to hand it over under friendly pretense) and then making the kid do all kinds of humiliating things in order to get it back. And as with all bullies, this sort of behavior is magnified when the bully has friends who cheer him on (otherwise too scared to intervene in fear of becoming the group's next victim or being thrown out of the group).
Now any school bully would, at some point, be forced to stop. Being it a teacher who intervenes, other kids stepping up or the victim themselves punching them in the gut when pushed too far. But this is the internet. And if there's one place where being a bully is easy, it's the internet. No-one to intervene and the victim in this case is powerless to get back at you. No risk of being punched in the gut in these parts! Would that ability exist, Erotica would have had his ass kicked a long damn time ago and quit his bullying.
The only satisfactory thing we can probably take from this is that Erotica, in real life, is probably on the ass end of this scenario. Being the victim of real life school bullying himself in some degree. I assume he's still in school because I hope no adult person with actual responsibilities in real life does this (or any) amount of online bullying and gets enjoyment out of it.
All in all nothing about this shocks me.
1. Regular people tend to turn into massive sadistic trolls and ***holes on the internet because there is no risk of someone punching you in the face, ever. Not shocking.
2. EVE Roleplaying and 'he should have known better' being used as an excuse too justify bullying behavior within the game. Not shocking.
3. Naive victims in EVE Online who get scammed. Not shocking.
4. Those same victims losing all their stuff and either being humiliated or insulted afterwards. Not shocking.
I can understand how easily one gets dragged into a bullying mode though, especially with friends around things tend to go too far too fast. But where normal people look back a few hours later and go 'oh, sh*t, that really went too far...', there are sadistic children like Erotica who happily do it over and over without a sign of guilt or remorse.
Should the guy be banned for the scam? No. Scamming is part of EVE and he actually does a good job at running it from what I can tell.
Should the guy be banned for being an online bully? No, absolutely not. But CCP should make it clear that online bullying like this is unacceptable, period. There is a very distinct line between interacting with an in-game character and bullying a human being. And I would have no problem with CCP enforcing that line.
Anyway, should Erotica1 ever show his face at Fanfest or the CSM and someone decides to roundhouse kick him to the floor... well... I just hope he won't act surprised over it.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
504
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.
I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
506
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.
I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming. If this actually happened, the person taking a swing would be in the wrong, whether his victim 'had it coming' or not.
Sure, of course he'd be in the wrong. Just like a kid taking a swing at his bully in the playground would be in the wrong. But it'd also be understandable.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
506
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, there isn't.
Because you can say precisely the same thing about Monopoly. You can take someone's play money over and over, until they've had enough.
This isn't about the money, dude. I haven't touched on the money issue at all. Reread my posts.
This entire blog and this thread are about the bullying behavior. Making people humiliate themselves in front of a group of people. And the things mentioned in the blog are hardly the worst behavior I've ever heard about within EVE. This is about the way people treat each other as human beings inside of EVE and how that behavior crosses several lines way too often.
Screw the money, seriously.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
510
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
I'm wondering what all these defenders of Erotica would say should the victim in question take it to the extreme and harm himself or family in any way. It's still just a game right?
And what if they did it if the only thing I did was gank them? Should I feel somehow responsible for it then too? Or if I kick them from my corp? Or if I maroon them in a WormHole in their pod and close the exit? Or I destroy their alliance and steal all the things? Should I feel responsible for what they do then?
That's a horrible comparison.
One is just playing the game and its mechanics. The other is emotionally grinding a person down with absolutely no in-game benefit. Humiliating and insulting a person for the sheer reason of 'lolz'.
To extend the school analogy; you're comparing losing a match of soccer during school gym hours to a kid being bullied outside of school, being made fun of and pushed around until they snap and harm themselves. Losing a match is part of the game. Being an ***hole to someone is not.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
514
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:What I would say is "wow, that's an unstable person who should not have been playing EVE online of visiting a comms channel with some easily google-able person like Erotica1 in the 1st place"
Quote:Did somebody hold a gun at that guy's head to make him do all those idiotic things? Seriously, you can have no idea about who Erotica1 is and what he does in Eve and still not let him put you through those silly things. You got baited into isk doubling scheme, fine, cut your loses and walk away.
And to everyone else who thinks that people who play EVE should all harden the f*ck up and all be emotionally stable super soldiers:
This might be a good time to point out that EVE Online is rated PEGI 12 and that children younger than 12 are actually allowed to play with their parent's consent.
Now imagine Erotica pulling this sort of bullsh*t on a 12 year old kid that is about as emotionally stable as a house made of sand and who may already be dealing with enough bullying in their real lives.
And regardless of that, I think it's absolutely repulsive that certain people around here believe that Erotica's behavior (or any bullying behavior within EVE) should be classed as 'normal and to be expected within EVE'.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
516
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 15:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:Malcolm from Marketing wrote:Darek Castigatus wrote:Kara Vix wrote:If CCP takes no action against Erotica, then they are sanctioning this behavior and are no better than he is. I expect better from them. So you expect them to take action when no breach of either the EULA or the TOS has occured purely based on your dislike of his behaviour? Like mittani was you mean? Yeah that would be outrageous indeed. Right, because E1 was totally in a speaking role at a major CCP sponsored convention when this happened, it isn't the same and you know it.
Could very well be. He's running for CSM (or so he claims). If he gets enough votes we're sending someone to Iceland that takes pride in humiliating and abusing the player base he provides a voice for.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
516
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 15:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Quote:What I would say is "wow, that's an unstable person who should not have been playing EVE online of visiting a comms channel with some easily google-able person like Erotica1 in the 1st place" Quote:Did somebody hold a gun at that guy's head to make him do all those idiotic things? Seriously, you can have no idea about who Erotica1 is and what he does in Eve and still not let him put you through those silly things. You got baited into isk doubling scheme, fine, cut your loses and walk away. And to everyone else who thinks that people who play EVE should all harden the f*ck up and all be emotionally stable super soldiers: This might be a good time to point out that EVE Online is rated PEGI 12 and that children younger than 12 are actually allowed to play with their parent's consent. Now imagine Erotica pulling this sort of bullsh*t on a 12 year old kid that is about as emotionally stable as a house made of sand and who may already be dealing with enough bullying in their real lives. And regardless of that, I think it's absolutely repulsive that certain people around here believe that Erotica's behavior (or any bullying behavior within EVE) should be classed as 'normal and to be expected within EVE'. This is the only rule change I would support. Making the game 18+, it's a double win both for the kids who should be playing outside, and for those of us who don't want annoying kids around.
Or we could try to... you know, not create such a hostile environment and actually be nice to people.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
518
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
But he didn't so this argument is pointless here.
No, but he would. He'd have a field day if he got a young kid on comms to play his bonus room. Plenty of clips on Youtube of 12 year olds raging over video game trolls and Erotica is a special breed of troll.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
521
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Posted - 2014.03.25 16:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
Now imagine Erotica pulling this sort of bullsh*t on a 12 year old kid that is about as emotionally stable as a house made of sand and who may already be dealing with enough bullying in their real lives.
Erotica 1 is outrageously smart. I'm pretty sure he knows a 12yr old can't give the consent he asks for at the beginning of the audio recordings. Yes, yes you heard right.. Erotica 1 asks the "victim" for consent to record the whole thing. Which should be the end of the story if people were rational.
I'll keep that in mind next time someone asks your permission to record a street interview and then proceed to beat you up. Who cares, you gave consent!
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
523
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:
I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.
Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
523
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME assets ransom.
The entire "Bonus Room" is an external context, outside of EVE, in which he is dealing with people as people, with himself and all associated persons involved, as legal real entities.
What he is doing OUTSIDE OF THE GAME is extremely and unequivocably, illegal. You can't extort someone for items that have no value.... a lawyer would know this.
There is such a thing as psychological extortion. Furthermore a person has time and effort invested in those items so who are you to say the items have no value?
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
525
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Erotica 1 wrote:
I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.
Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act. What benefit would Ero get by doing that? I mean, is there anything E1 could say, that would prevent you from wanting to hang him/her from the yardarm RL?
Well god forbid it won't benefit him. What was I thinking? Forget I ever asked.
It's not like I expect him to go 'oh yeah, maybe I've gone a little too far sometimes. I'll tone it down in the future'. But basically any serious response (either positive or negative) would be better than "I do it for the lulz, your tears are delicious".
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
525
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
I Riven I wrote:Guys can you all please calm down here??
ITS JUST MONEY!!
IF ITS $100 OR $1000 .. IT STILL JUST POCKET MONEY AND NOT A BANK ROBBERY OF MILLIONS.
So much drama out of a couple hundreds..
This stopped being about the money like 26 pages ago...
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
525
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/
So here goes for news coverage.
Oh ****. 
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
526
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Wesley Otsdarva wrote:http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/
So here goes for news coverage. Good, perhaps people will learn that EVE online is grown folks business and stay in their thempark MMOs all swaddled in cotton safe from the 'griefers'..
The sh*t that goes on in this game has nothing to do with 'grown folks', in fact it's quite the opposite. Cyber bullying has nothing to do with scamming and it has nothing at ALL to do with an 'adult' game. How you ever get to this notion is completely beyond me. In what weird world do you live where behavior like this, online or not, is considered normal?
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
526
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Wesley Otsdarva wrote:http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/
So here goes for news coverage. Sneaky gets it. sneaky (via the massively comments sections) wrote:
Elsewhere in a COD lobby near you....
It's not news, it's not even new, people have been abusing each other via the medium of online games and chat rooms for years. It's not unique to Eve.
Yeah except in a COD lobby you can just disconnect and find a new lobby. Not so easy when some dude has all your stuff (whether you gave it voluntarily or not) in a game where having a lot of stuff is the point of the game.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
534
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
38 pages and people still think this threadnaught is about the lost ISK  
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
534
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:So where's the coercion?
The forcing.
The humiliation that the victim had no choice but be subject to?
In short, where's the actual bullying?
Well for one I highly doubt that Erotica takes the time to explain what the bonus round is BEFORE taking all their assets. So the victim gives all their assets under the assumption that the bonus round is all fun and games. Then once stripped of all assets, Erotica has leverage to keep it going for as long as he likes. Anyone who argues that the items aren't worth anything is kidding themselves. There is real time and effort (and sometimes money) invested in these items. None of us would willingly take a loss that makes up the majority of assets we gathered during our time played.
Using that leverage Erotica drags the bonus room on and on and on to the point where it's not reasonably fun anymore. Sing a few songs, fine. Few jokes here and there, also fine. But there's a point where a 'hazing' turns into bullying. But as the victim what are you going to do? If you say no you lose all your stuff and that's a big gamble to take when the end of the torment could be just beyond the next 'joke'.
Sure you could say that you shouldn't be stupid enough to participate in the first place. But if for whatever reason someone does decides to participate, that doesn't mean Erotica gets a free ticket to be a sadistic bastard.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
541
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kadl wrote:Volar Kang wrote:Sadly, I have to agree that no terms of the game were violated. Erotica talked the person out of the game and into another environment where the humiliation took place. I would not expect CCP to become involved. On the other hand, there is something seriously wrong with Erotica and her friends.
So Erotica1 offered in game items for out of game services. You sing for me and you will get all of these items back. That is RMT, which CCP dislikes with a passion. Just because something happens outside of CCPs servers doesn't mean that they should ignore it.
Singing is a currency these days?
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
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