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Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.02 21:05:00 - [1] Sorry for asking all these piracy questions, but for belt piracy, what would you suggest on a Retribution? The only problem I am thinking of is that with only 1 med slot, it simply cannot solo. If you need to belt pirate, you need to get there fast and scramble fast. Without an MWD AND a Scrambler, it simply cannot stop an enemy from warping. With just an MWD, they'll warp away once they get at low armor. With just a Scrambler, you won't be able to get to them in time to scramble them. Any suggestions on this? And also, what do you suggest for all the other slots for belt piracy??? -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
wickedlady	Posted - 2006.05.02 21:12:00 - [2] have a look at this ;-)
Kyozoku	Posted - 2006.05.02 21:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Zarithas With just a Scrambler, you won't be able to get to them in time to scramble them. Doesnt matter how fast you are. 99% of the time if you land outside 20km they are gone.
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.02 23:04:00 - [4] Edited by: Zarithas on 02/05/2006 23:10:33 Looking at that thread, should I not even bother going the AF route and just going Thorax? I guess that 1 med slot just gimps it. =/ It looked like such an interesting ship too. -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Phaese	Posted - 2006.05.02 23:57:00 - [5] If you have some friends that can tackle it can dish out some nice damage... With 1 med, though, you really can't do much of any tackling, so no solo work.
Benglada	Posted - 2006.05.03 01:24:00 - [6] Zarithas try a crusader or malediction. And hey again :P --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.03 01:40:00 - [7] it get no respect - but for solo operation, the vengeance hold it own very very well, and can tank very nice. it doesn't have the potential of retribution (dmg) - but it have 3 golden mid (and if weirda have anything to say will have 4 some day) too bad Tux hate weirda so much... __ Weirda Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.03 19:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Benglada Zarithas try a crusader or malediction. And hey again :P Err...who are you? And I was looking into a Crusader, but I realized the damage output of the Retribution would be more my style. But with only 1 med slot, meh. =/ -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.05.03 20:07:00 - [9] The damage output of an MP2 Crusader is actually higher than the output of a non-HS2 MP2 Retribution until you get to AF V IIRC.
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.03 20:21:00 - [10] What is HS2?? What is HS even??? -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
J Dubbs	Posted - 2006.05.03 20:33:00 - [11] heat sink / heat sink T2 - the damge mod for lasers.
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.03 20:44:00 - [12] Oh. But with all the low slots of the Retribution, wouldn't it be quite optimal to apply a HS2? -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Escobar Noreaga	Posted - 2006.05.03 20:50:00 - [13] I don't know why someone would even consider a retribution for solo pirating. It's a gank squad ship. And heat sinks are a must or just fly a cruiser, it's cheaper. You can deal nice damage but not w/o the heat sinks. Get a friend in a stiletto or something to tackle for u and pwn away. ------------------------------------------------- Pimpin Hoes and Slammin Cadillac Doors...... I'm stealth like a robot hidden in the fat ******* of Cartman.....
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.03 20:59:00 - [14] Originally by: Escobar Noreaga I don't know why someone would even consider a retribution for solo pirating. It's a gank squad ship. And heat sinks are a must or just fly a cruiser, it's cheaper. You can deal nice damage but not w/o the heat sinks. Get a friend in a stiletto or something to tackle for u and pwn away. Maybe you misunderstood me. This was sort of what I was saying... I think I will still go for a Retri and put an MWD on it, and just rely on my gang to scramble/web. Now that I think about it, in my corp, we have TONS of members, so we do a lot of group piracy. I think I will move up to cruisers and use those for solo piracy once I finish my training for my Retri. -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Escobar Noreaga	Posted - 2006.05.03 21:04:00 - [15] My mistake....then i agree. ------------------------------------------------- Pimpin Hoes and Slammin Cadillac Doors...... I'm stealth like a robot hidden in the fat ******* of Cartman.....
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.03 22:01:00 - [16] Yep, I was saying that it was very optimal to put a HS on the Retri because it has 5 low slots. Hell, I may even put 2 on. -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Mortuus	Posted - 2006.05.04 05:46:00 - [17] 4x Med Pulse tech2 1x Cap Recharger 1x Small armor rep, 1x thermal plate, 3x HS 2 Lots of fun in a small gang Occassus Republica, CHIMP
Ruah Piskonit	Posted - 2006.05.04 06:35:00 - [18] Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 04/05/2006 06:40:09 Not to suggest that you may have waisted your time but, Amarr ships are not particularly well suited to solo piracy operations. They work fantasticly well in fleet operations with clear and defined roles and where a fleeing enemy can be considered a victory. Now there are ways to bait opponents into thinking they have a chance to win untill it is too late - thus essentially making them stay - but these types of opponents are rare and never repeat their mistakes (unless they are completely incompetent). So you will find various setups for the retribution and these can be broken down into those who want the speed (WMD/AB), the control (Jammer), or the slow (Web) for the precious single mid slot - all three of these of these setups lac the nessisary tools provided by the other two to force an opponent to fight and earn you a real possibility of killing opponents/victims. In essence, for piracy, a minimum of 2, a realistic 3, and a bonus more then 3 mid slots should be sought after in any ship you seek. Very few Amarr ships will satisfy this simple requirment for any kind of Piracy. I suggest you look at Caldari (which traditionaly have quite a large number of mid slots) which you could armor tank to free up mid slots if nessisary, or Gallente (which make very good Pirate ships due to their versitility and wide range of ship types and slot configurations). IF you have trained your armor skills considerably, You may want to look through a wide range of Gallente ships available - Gallente AFs are considered some of the best in the game and may actually be closer to what you are looking for. This may not have answered your question - but I belive you are demanding something from a ship that, while a fantastic ship in its own right, is not designed to perform within your desired peramiters. Reconsider your race of ship cairfuly. Finally, it comes down to skills really. If you have good shield skills like most Caldari should have, you may consider the Minmatar an easier race to train since they shield tank well. If you have trained all your armor skills and are simply looking at an armor tanked piracy ship, I would suggest Gallente. I belive most people would agree with this analysis as it has been repeated several times in these forums.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.04 06:41:00 - [19] The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. ~Shadowlord Don't miss your chance to buy Sobe
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.04 11:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Eximius Josari The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. Still not getting it. I only like ships with turret slots only, don't want to mix turrets with missiles. -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.04 11:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 04/05/2006 06:40:09 Not to suggest that you may have waisted your time but, Amarr ships are not particularly well suited to solo piracy operations. They work fantasticly well in fleet operations with clear and defined roles and where a fleeing enemy can be considered a victory. Now there are ways to bait opponents into thinking they have a chance to win untill it is too late - thus essentially making them stay - but these types of opponents are rare and never repeat their mistakes (unless they are completely incompetent). So you will find various setups for the retribution and these can be broken down into those who want the speed (WMD/AB), the control (Jammer), or the slow (Web) for the precious single mid slot - all three of these of these setups lac the nessisary tools provided by the other two to force an opponent to fight and earn you a real possibility of killing opponents/victims. In essence, for piracy, a minimum of 2, a realistic 3, and a bonus more then 3 mid slots should be sought after in any ship you seek. Very few Amarr ships will satisfy this simple requirment for any kind of Piracy. I suggest you look at Caldari (which traditionaly have quite a large number of mid slots) which you could armor tank to free up mid slots if nessisary, or Gallente (which make very good Pirate ships due to their versitility and wide range of ship types and slot configurations). IF you have trained your armor skills considerably, You may want to look through a wide range of Gallente ships available - Gallente AFs are considered some of the best in the game and may actually be closer to what you are looking for. This may not have answered your question - but I belive you are demanding something from a ship that, while a fantastic ship in its own right, is not designed to perform within your desired peramiters. Reconsider your race of ship cairfuly. Finally, it comes down to skills really. If you have good shield skills like most Caldari should have, you may consider the Minmatar an easier race to train since they shield tank well. If you have trained all your armor skills and are simply looking at an armor tanked piracy ship, I would suggest Gallente. I belive most people would agree with this analysis as it has been repeated several times in these forums. I've decided to stick with the Retribution. In SniggWaffe, we do gang piracy a TON, so the Retri would be perfect for the job. I'm just going to throw an MWD on it and let the gang do the scrambling/webbing. -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.04 17:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Zarithas Originally by: Eximius Josari The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. Still not getting it. I only like ships with turret slots only, don't want to mix turrets with missiles. Guess you will never fly an Apoc then. ~Shadowlord Don't miss your chance to buy Sobe
Jenstruant Fogg	Posted - 2006.05.04 18:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Zarithas Originally by: Eximius Josari The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. Still not getting it. I only like ships with turret slots only, don't want to mix turrets with missiles. You could fit a small nos instead of the missile slot Also, cruisers are much better for pirating than AFs I've found - and they don't hurt your wallet quite as bad (you can lose a T1 fitted thorax for about 2m but an AF will cost about 15m
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.04 19:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Zarithas Originally by: Eximius Josari The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. Still not getting it. I only like ships with turret slots only, don't want to mix turrets with missiles. Guess you will never fly an Apoc then. That's different. I don't want to sacrifice a slot for something that I have no skills in. With the Apoc having all the turrets it has, I would be sacrificing nothing. But with the Vengeance, i'd be sacrificing a turret slot. -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.04 19:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Zarithas Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Zarithas Originally by: Eximius Josari The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. Still not getting it. I only like ships with turret slots only, don't want to mix turrets with missiles. Guess you will never fly an Apoc then. That's different. I don't want to sacrifice a slot for something that I have no skills in. With the Apoc having all the turrets it has, I would be sacrificing nothing. But with the Vengeance, i'd be sacrificing a turret slot. Well it's like saying you would never fly a Raven, simply because it has 2 gun slots left over. ~Shadowlord Don't miss your chance to buy Sobe
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.04 19:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenstruant Fogg Originally by: Zarithas Originally by: Eximius Josari The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. Still not getting it. I only like ships with turret slots only, don't want to mix turrets with missiles. You could fit a small nos instead of the missile slot Also, cruisers are much better for pirating than AFs I've found - and they don't hurt your wallet quite as bad (you can lose a T1 fitted thorax for about 2m but an AF will cost about 15m I COULD fit a small nos, but then i'd be sacrificing the great extra DPS of that extra turret on the Retribution. If I really wanted 3 turrets and a nos, i'd just stick with my Punisher. -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.04 19:10:00 - [27] Ret is fine solo...just has huge sacrifices. It could work, but against a WCS user you will be SOL. ~Shadowlord Don't miss your chance to buy Sobe
Jenstruant Fogg	Posted - 2006.05.04 19:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Zarithas Edited by: Zarithas on 04/05/2006 19:05:52 Originally by: Jenstruant Fogg Originally by: Zarithas Originally by: Eximius Josari The Vengeance is getting a Damage buff in the next patch. So it is an option to consider planning for. Still not getting it. I only like ships with turret slots only, don't want to mix turrets with missiles. You could fit a small nos instead of the missile slot Also, cruisers are much better for pirating than AFs I've found - and they don't hurt your wallet quite as bad (you can lose a T1 fitted thorax for about 2m but an AF will cost about 15m I COULD fit a small nos, but then i'd be sacrificing the great extra DPS of that extra turret on the Retribution. If I really wanted 3 turrets and a nos, i'd just stick with my Punisher. And I don't see how Cruisers could possibly be any better, they just take a bit longer to kill. Plus, i've seen AFs take down Cruisers 1 on 1 fairly easily, the AF can just move fast enough to not be hit, or receive much less dmg if hit. By the way, for belt pirating, do you think I could just fit a warp disruptor and hope I survive the slow trip of flying to my target, or just forget the possibility of soloing all together? Trust me, cruisers are much better
Escobar Noreaga	Posted - 2006.05.04 19:23:00 - [29] I COULD fit a small nos, but then i'd be sacrificing the great extra DPS of that extra turret on the Retribution. If I really wanted 3 turrets and a nos, i'd just stick with my Punisher. You don't really believe that do u? Punisher v. Vengance. Seriously, go ALL OUT DAMAGE on your retribution. If your worried about dying , take a cruiser. If your pirating in gangs and your friends have bigger ships, you shouldn't have to worry about gettin shot. Just my opinion though. ------------------------------------------------- Pimpin Hoes and Slammin Cadillac Doors...... I'm stealth like a robot hidden in the fat ******* of Cartman.....
Zarithas	Posted - 2006.05.04 21:01:00 - [30] Edited by: Zarithas on 04/05/2006 21:04:24 Originally by: Escobar Noreaga I COULD fit a small nos, but then i'd be sacrificing the great extra DPS of that extra turret on the Retribution. If I really wanted 3 turrets and a nos, i'd just stick with my Punisher. You don't really believe that do u? Punisher v. Vengance. Seriously, go ALL OUT DAMAGE on your retribution. If your worried about dying , take a cruiser. If your pirating in gangs and your friends have bigger ships, you shouldn't have to worry about gettin shot. Just my opinion though. That is exactly what I am going to do. Tell me though, would getting a warp disruptor and having no AB/MWD allow me to solo, or will the enemy simply shoot me down before I get into range? Or could I try that, and put on long range crystals until I get into my close range for the heavy dmg? Oh by the way, can someone PLEASE link the thread that will talk about the AF changes in the next patch? -------------------------------- Joria Klex > it's sad really cuz i know for a fact i would utterly destroy u all in RL combat

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