Did anyone told you that you need a big Dislike button? A really BIG one!

I thought the point of this game is that there are no real rules.

That its all grey area?

I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-

You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol

I would never disagree with that. Ever.

Make a thread about it and I'll join in. But this thread is about something else entirely.

Mr Epeen

Well.. I hate politicians with a passion. Good news is that in EVE I can kill them over an over.. and over. Maybe bring them in a glory hole with a lot of prizes. Malcanis.. do you like mayo?

Then talking to them on TS was evil?

Like I said, I guess I just dont get it

Malcanis, in many cases I'm right there with you. I've seen people take things to incredibly cruel levels before they are done.

But I have to be honest, asking someone to read text and sing the gummy bear song doesn't fall into that category in my book... and it apparently doesn't fall into that category in Sohkars book either.

Still, I can appreciate the position that CCP and the CSM was in... and respect the decisions made. It's just unfortunate that it makes it look like caving in to the mob mentality (which I personally don't believe it was).

Also; is this YOUR opinion or is this opinion shared by CCP and updated into the ToS/EULA?

So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true

Fair enough. Well spoken.

I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).

I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card.

Yet about 100 pages ago, I asked for someone to link that recording as proof... Oddly enough im still waiting for said links. Also Goons arent know for their trustworthiness either. When it comes to believing Ero, or someone from goons, its really a coin flip for me >.>

So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?

Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys.

You think is problem if I stalk you? Is all about love after all :(

How can asking someone to sing songs and read wikipedia pages ever be too far?

Thank you for your efforts in making sure Ero got a fair shot. Ripard's blog started a massive uproar and I'm sure put a lot of pressure on CCP. I have to admit, I am a little disturbed that this has been going on for nearly a year, but Ero has received no warnings on the subject prior to a (seemingly) permanent ban. Also once the ban went into effect, he received no communication about exactly what steps were being taken. I am not asking for any changes regarding the handling of this case, but CCP really needs to look at their communication process when handling rules violations in the future.

In general, where are we drawing the line, here?

So anyone that kills miners/missioners in high sec is what youre saying. The guys that "farm tears" so Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, all that is forbidden now?

Because "for no reason other than to goad [them], IS the ADVERTISED reason FOR those things.

So if I pop someone's assets, they start to freak out in chat, and I poke fun at them for it.... as long as I stop poking fun at them once I realize that they're honestly and truly starting to lose emotional control (but continue blowing up their stuff).... if I do that, then I'm firmly planted in the grey area of "*******" but not 'banned *******"?

.... I'm okay with that.

Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,,

I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon...

I'm amazed that some posters here still can't differentiate in game play (ganking, scamming and even bumping - all good and CCP sanctioned) versus taking it out of game and subjecting a mark to several hours of TS3 slavery for no in game benefit whatsoever.

To those types of players, I suggest you learn the difference quickly.

In all of this I have been beyond impressed with how Malc has dealt with this.

I do not know if he was designated by the CSM to post here and on the other thread, I do not know if he volunteered or if he was posting as a CSM rep or just a everyday player, either way I am glad I voted for him and it is a crying shame he is not re-running for the next CSM.

Just want to say thanks for the work you did on one this Malc, you actually have done what I though was impossible given me faith in the CSM again.

That's what I'm talking about, right there.
I don't care how much he does or doesn't rage at me. If he keeps coming back into the lowsec system I live in, when he knows full-well, by now that he's going to be rewarded for it with a facefull of Ferox, I'm GOING to keep giving it to him.
Now, all he has to do at that point is petition me, and send the GM the EVEmails whereby he raged at me and demanded that I stop preventing him from encroaching on my home, breaking my ratting chain, and scaring off better targets, and I responded by sending him the lyrics to Particle Man.
Now, poor old Garamonde is temp banned for harassment, and the moron carebear that doesn't understand what lowsec means, gets pretty much "Lethal Weapon 2 Style Diplomatic Immunity" as a result. All he has to do is claim that I was deliberately targeting him, simply to harass him.

That's total crap and you know it.

Seconded, and I have not previously been an admirer of Malcanis.

So let's say I get scammed/ganked by a guy in a ransom. If he sends me a smug EVE Mail is that considered harassing? If I get killed auto-piloting and someone sends a "you need to pay your autopilot license" mail, is that harassing?

Basically what I'm getting at is where does the "line" stand on what is considered harassing and going to far after you do something in-game (i.e. suicide gank, steal, etc.)

And yet he fails to answer simple direct questions.

I understood, full-well, what YOU were saying.
My point that you missed is what steps are going to be take to ensure that carebears understand, completely, that this is not a "can't touch me" card, and that GM's will be properly educated on the subject. Will there be actions taken against carebears for trying to cheat the system? Will GM's be disciplined for handing out bans against gankers?

I've debated with you, before, Malcanis... you're intelligent enough to be far above subtly calling someone stupid. Don't degrade yourself, like that.

I'm asking you, given that you're privy to the CSM/CCP discussions about this matter where that line is determined at.

Kinda the point Im making. Thats a pretty fine line theyre trying to walk

No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play.

All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask?

It's pretty obvious what they mean. Go and do another bonus room in the same vein as the one that started this. I bet you won't because it's likely to blow up again and there's a good possibility of you getting a ban.

It's not a cave in its a warning to check yourself before you try to outdo the last sociopaths sad little event.

So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective?

I offer a closing scene from 'A Few Good [Scammers]'...

Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many].

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son."

Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately.

F

Thanks so much for the clarity there Mr representative of the player base. Thanks for addressing the concerns that several members of the eve community have and presenting them to CCP, and relaying information back to us.

Oh wait...

Again, I asked you. I'm not trying to rules-lawyer around something or meta-game. If you're more concerned with being a condescending prick because someone asked you a question be my guest.

Looks like E1 is banned, at least temporarily, at least on that account. Guess it was kind of inevitable given the bonus rounds continued despite the warning e1 got over that Rayne guy. I'm still not convinced that being mean to someone on your own teamspeak constitutes real life harassment, but I do understand that CCP is not pleased someone would use Eve assets and the eve environment as a lever to ... engage in that kind cruel behavior. I'm disappointed that our communal understanding of harassment is no clearer now than it was before, and that the best explanation we could get came from the CSM rather than a blue. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with CCP dealing with such things on a case by case basis and reserving for themselves as much leeway as possible.



More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. This case was a bit unusual in that there was never any question of the veracity of the recording.

So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?

If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right?

AAAAH I get it, you can do whatever you want, just torture the victim till he wont tattle.

The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's

Bull. ****. And you know it.

D.

So if an FC gives a bad order over TS which causes someone to lose a ship and that causes them undue emotional distress, is that FC liable to be banned?

I'm asking for a friend.

Can you please answer my question mate ?

I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer.

...
*swivels in his chair*
...
*sips his coffee*
...
*reads your comments*
...
*sips his coffee*

...

*smiles*


Well now. It appears those in this game that encourage treating other players with respect, having fun, and staying classy CAN still extract tears simply by espousing those same tenements.

*looks out the window*

My, it is a bright, sunny day today.

*sighs contentedly*

Bullshit.

I once had someone completely flip his lid at me in local, after I bumped him once.

Do I need to be banned for that? He got equally upset as the example given here. Far more, in fact, he was using capslock and everything.

And that's the problem with subjectivity.