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Nikitinka
Anamnescence
0
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Give it:
-Covert ops cloak: it would really make it worth it in a wormhole and wouldn't be OP due to low scan res and recalibration time)
-Clone Vat Bay: it'd become the quintessential wormhole logistics ship.
-Higher PG: The Rattlesnake can effectively use both of its weapons systems without any trouble- why can't the Nestor?? :(
Seriously, the ship is awesome- but it is lackluster and despite what CCP Rise thinks, the sentient drone drops won't lower the price at all- that's already evident. It needs something special to make it worth its price tag, and this would fix it perfectly.
Seriously, what happened to consistency in (pirate) ship lines?
The Nestor has to get these changes. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3155
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nikitinka wrote:The Nestor has to get these changes.
To fix a problem it has to be first acknowledged that one exists... It's clear to (almost) everyone that the Nestor needs a complete revamp. And therein lies the problem...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
0
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
I know what you're saying- I'm just hyperbolizing my ideas and point.
It needs to be in-line with the other two SoE shps, at the very least- even just the covert ops cloak would justify a lot. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
543
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Posted - 2014.03.30 06:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't think it needs a complete revamp. I little more grid... and maybe the covert cloak would be just fine.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Kretan
Rayn Enterprises
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2014.03.30 07:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah I have to agree with barbara a little more grid would improve it alot as would the covert cloak. But the clone vat bay that would just makes things more interesting. |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Nulli Secunda
28
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Posted - 2014.03.30 08:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
the covert cloak has to be the single worst idea in existence for this ship. Seriously, a battleship is GOING to get de-cloaked by fast tackle when traveling about 60% of the time. 95% if its in a bubble.
A jump drive is the only viable solution for an exploration based revamp.
otherwise they could leave it as is and just crank up the drop rate on the chips until the price drops. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
271
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Posted - 2014.03.30 08:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Covert cloaking battleships... bad.
Jump Drive Faction BS?
Please show me where to sign away my theoretical first born.
The Law is a point of View |
MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Legion
17
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Posted - 2014.03.30 08:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
The covert cloak thing comes up a lot. The power of the cloaking device is incredible. As such, ships that can cloak are generally gimp compared to ones that cannot.
Stealth Bombers are terrible in prolonged combat compared to AFs.
Recons have less tank and EHP than HACs.
The Stratios has one less drone than its counterpart the Gila.
Cloaky T3s have much less damage and weaker weapon subsystems than non cloaky ones.
Black Ops are straight up inferior to T1 BS when actually fighting.
Cloaks allow their owners to choose when they want to engage in combat. Cloaky ships trade out combat effectiveness for this advantage. A cloaky Nestor would have to be redesigned to be worse than it currently is. Its not a simple solution. Keeping it at its current power level and giving it a cloak would not be acceptable. It would be the most powerful thing under cloak in the game by a very very wide margin. CCP are not going to do this.
The jump drive thing would be cool for carebears. However we run into the same issue. It would be by far the most powerful BS with a jump drive by a very very wide margin. Black Ops are worse than T1 BS. The Nestor is better than a T1 BS. All the Black Ops would be instantly obsolete and you would have fleets of these things dropping on people. CCP isn't going to do that.
This ship desperately needs something from CCP. It either needs a higher drop rate to push the price way down, or it needs a redesign with a focused vision. |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark
177
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Posted - 2014.03.30 10:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nestor threads remind me that as bad as CCP is, players are way worse at balance. |
Egravant Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
70
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Posted - 2014.03.30 10:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
I like the idea of covert ops in nestor. |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
194
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Posted - 2014.03.30 15:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
I was very excited at the first mention of the Nestor and made the mistake of wrongly assuming it would be able to use a covert ops cloak like the other two SOE ships.
I see no way that the Nestor enhances an exploration team as it is now. Since it has no cloak and just a huge drone bay, I would think a team would be better off with a T2 logistics cruiser for, what? 1/15th the price? Better repair ability, faster and a way smaller signature.
The Nestor has no real bonus to remote repair and its grid can't really manage a decent fit for most work.
Leave the drone bay, enhance the remote repair abilities, nerf back the turret slots, leave the exploration bonuses and give it the covert ops cloak. If that is still too overpowered, then mess with the shields and armor to balance it. Make it difficult to solo with but compliment working in a team with the other SOE ships.
Now that I think of it, it would be cool if it could have been made into a sort of "exploration Orca", if you will. Ah to dream...
Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 15:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Covert ops cloak is unlikely to happen for a lot of reasons.
A short range jump drive though could make the ship very useful without being OP and help to justify the price on it, infact making it essentially a faction black ops so to speak even could make sense though I've not thought that through.
I'd still like to see the RR range extended a little more through ~24km feels more right to me than ~16. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC.
Illusion of Solitude
691
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 16:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote:The covert cloak thing comes up a lot. The power of the cloaking device is incredible. As such, ships that can cloak are generally gimp compared to ones that cannot.
Stealth Bombers are terrible in prolonged combat compared to AFs.
Recons have less tank and EHP than HACs.
The Stratios has one less drone than its counterpart the Gila.
Cloaky T3s have much less damage and weaker weapon subsystems than non cloaky ones.
Black Ops are straight up inferior to T1 BS when actually fighting.
Cloaks allow their owners to choose when they want to engage in combat. Cloaky ships trade out combat effectiveness for this advantage. A cloaky Nestor would have to be redesigned to be worse than it currently is. Its not a simple solution. Keeping it at its current power level and giving it a cloak would not be acceptable. It would be the most powerful thing under cloak in the game by a very very wide margin. CCP are not going to do this.
The jump drive thing would be cool for carebears. However we run into the same issue. It would be by far the most powerful BS with a jump drive by a very very wide margin. Black Ops are worse than T1 BS. The Nestor is better than a T1 BS. All the Black Ops would be instantly obsolete and you would have fleets of these things dropping on people. CCP isn't going to do that.
This ship desperately needs something from CCP. It either needs a higher drop rate to push the price way down, or it needs a redesign with a focused vision.
Addressing the issue of the covert ops cloak, with the built in decloak targeting delays of a battleship, the nestor would actually be the least powerful of the implementations imaginable.
Any ship would be able to disengage and warp away from a nestor, so it would certainly NOT be able to use it to choose when to engage in combat to any advantage, and if travelling with other ships, they would be your problem not the nestor. Oh and the nestor has no blops ability.
The advantage would be it could travel in wormholes with a fleet and not expose the fleet to destruction, in the same way that you do not see submarine wolf packs travelling with a support ship following them on the surface........
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
4
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Posted - 2014.03.30 16:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
I see what everyone means about how it could use a jump drive- but really, I say Covert Ops because:
-Ship lines should be kept consistent- Astero: exploration+cloaky; Stratios: Exploration+cloaky; Nestor: BAD LOGI and nothing good anywhere else.
-The Nestor is supposedly for wormholes, and the covert ops cloak would make it usable there.
-It wouldn't make it as overpowered as people seem to think: it wouldn't get a recalibration time reduction+ it has BS scan res- it would not be crazy overpowered, and it could really make use of the cloak in its stated focus- WORMHOLES. Without a cloak like this, nobody would consider using it over a T3 or some other ship.
-Anyone you attacked after decloaking would have a HUGE amount of time to get away, and the Nestor is a BS, so it aligns slowly as is. |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
4
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Posted - 2014.03.30 16:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Addressing the issue of the covert ops cloak, with the built in decloak targeting delays of a battleship, the nestor would actually be the least powerful of the implementations imaginable.
Any ship would be able to disengage and warp away from a nestor, so it would certainly NOT be able to use it to choose when to engage in combat to any advantage, and if travelling with other ships, they would be your problem not the nestor.
The advantage would be it could travel in wormholes with a fleet and not expose the fleet to destruction, in the same way that you do not see submarine wolf packs travelling with a support ship following them on the surface........
Exactly this- it wouldn't give it any combat advantage unless the opposing pilot was completely incompetent or just completely stunned by how beautiful the ship is
It'd give it usability and reason to be used in WH fleets, and would make it a viable option for people to choose to fly.
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
544
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 18:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think many of you have an unrealistic opinion as to the power that a covert cloak might give the Nestor.. It's very likely that the cloak would end up sucking all the resources from the ship and gimping it as to mounting other necessary modules. There is a way to do this right. I think SOE should have some standards...covert cloaking should be a standard go on an SOE ship.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
0mni Ca
Hit Squad 420
Almost Awesome.
54
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Only thing it needs, jump capabilities :) |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
5
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
0mni Ca wrote:Only thing it needs, jump capabilities :)
But then it'd be more powerful than any black ops in the game- and don't get me wrong- its not like it wouldn't be fun, but it wouldn't make any sense at all to give it one when its stated focus is wormholes- it'd be useless there  |
MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Legion
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Addressing the issue of the covert ops cloak, with the built in decloak targeting delays of a battleship, the nestor would actually be the least powerful of the implementations imaginable.
Any ship would be able to disengage and warp away from a nestor, so it would certainly NOT be able to use it to choose when to engage in combat to any advantage, and if travelling with other ships, they would be your problem not the nestor.
The advantage would be it could travel in wormholes with a fleet and not expose the fleet to destruction, in the same way that you do not see submarine wolf packs travelling with a support ship following them on the surface........[/quote]
You say it yourself. The advantage is in fleets. The gank Nestor's decloak targeting delay doesn't matter if he's hunting with an interceptor buddy. And you guys aren't asking for a submarine for wolfpacks, you're asking for a submersible battleship. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3158
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 20:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote:And you guys aren't asking for a submarine for wolfpacks, you're asking for a submersible battleship
It's not much of a battleship.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 21:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nikitinka wrote:0mni Ca wrote:Only thing it needs, jump capabilities :) But then it'd be more powerful than any black ops in the game- and don't get me wrong- its not like it wouldn't be fun, but it wouldn't make any sense at all to give it one when its stated focus is wormholes- it'd be useless there
Not like its that useful in wormholes as it is anyhow (currently).
|
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
5
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Posted - 2014.03.30 21:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Nikitinka wrote:0mni Ca wrote:Only thing it needs, jump capabilities :) But then it'd be more powerful than any black ops in the game- and don't get me wrong- its not like it wouldn't be fun, but it wouldn't make any sense at all to give it one when its stated focus is wormholes- it'd be useless there Not like its that useful in wormholes as it is anyhow (currently).
Exactly.
It's supposed to be, but it isn't.
That's why I suggested Cov Ops cloak in the first place.
And read the last suggestion I added, too  |
Kenrailae
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
274
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 21:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nikitinka wrote:0mni Ca wrote:Only thing it needs, jump capabilities :) But then it'd be more powerful than any black ops in the game- and don't get me wrong- its not like it wouldn't be fun, but it wouldn't make any sense at all to give it one when its stated focus is wormholes- it'd be useless there
I guess I have to ask: How useful is it in WH's now? Really? And why would you use a Nestor(with cov cloak) for any of it's bonused roles when another, cheaper ship would do it better? Cov ops scans far better, as would a T3, IIRC. Logi may not rep as much, but rep ALOT farther and have alot more capacitor flexibility, but you also have triage which can be fit and fielded for not much more than a nestor hull alone, and do a far better job of it. Standard T1 bs do better damage, or at least very comparable for 1/6 the price.... What would a cov ops cloak do for this ship that would give it any reason to be used over a more specialized ship?
Wouldn't it be more useful being able to jump around as new WH's opened up without having to run the risk of being tackled on gates? I realize this isn't as big a deal in high sec, but as soon as it leaves high sec.... how well can this ship really get around to get to WH's?
I think you also over-estimate the Nestor in comparison to the other BLops. It would be tough, but not massively OP. It's rep and drones abilities would also fit in very nicely with current BLops fleets, but would not overshadow any of the others. Blops may not be able to reach 40k armor like other BS, and may have their damage gimped, but they shouldn't be underestimated either, especially in the hands of practiced pilots.
The nestor is also themed to search and rescue and 'exploration.' A Jump drive fits these themes just as much, if not more than a covert ops cloak. See below:
Top line of Second paragraph of nestor descrip wrote:It is particularly adept at venturing into dangerous territories, not merely in recovering whatever may be of interest but also in being able to safely bring it back.
A covert cloak may let it warp covertly but it would still be able to be bubbled, decloaked, and pointed. A jump drive may require a cyno, but gives it alot more mobility to fit that exploration idea.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:It's not much of a battleship.
With bonuses to scan probes and relic/data analyzers? I should hope not.
As has been said by so many people:
0mni Ca wrote:Only thing it needs, jump capabilities :)
^ is how to fix the Nestor.
IDK, I don't see how the Cov ops cloak would resolve anything with the Nestor when it's still one of the most expensive faction BS out there and every one of it's bonuses can be done by something else, better. At least a jump drive let's it fill a niche role which BLops have been wanting for a long time: something that can jump with them, geared toward support, that isn't necessarily a carrier. Cov Ops cloaks are also ALOT of power, whether peeps want to agree with that or not.
The Law is a point of View |
skidoo
The Venture Bros
Brothers of Tangra
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 02:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
the only thing it needs is the covert ops cloak. that alone would justify the cost. black ops battleships have needed a logi ship since day one, this could be it. or if not a covert ops cloak at least give it the ability to go through black ops bridges. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC.
Illusion of Solitude
692
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Addressing the issue of the covert ops cloak, with the built in decloak targeting delays of a battleship, the nestor would actually be the least powerful of the implementations imaginable.
Any ship would be able to disengage and warp away from a nestor, so it would certainly NOT be able to use it to choose when to engage in combat to any advantage, and if travelling with other ships, they would be your problem not the nestor.
The advantage would be it could travel in wormholes with a fleet and not expose the fleet to destruction, in the same way that you do not see submarine wolf packs travelling with a support ship following them on the surface........ You say it yourself. The advantage is in fleets. The gank Nestor's decloak targeting delay doesn't matter if he's hunting with an interceptor buddy. And you guys aren't asking for a submarine for wolfpacks, you're asking for a submersible battleship.
And once the interceptor has tackled it it makes no difference whether the nestor warps in cloaked, uncloaked, or painted bright pink.
In that role the ability to warp cloaked adds no additional combat power whatsoever.
The ability to warp cloaked does not add combat power to the nestor in any way!
It adds travel power, a completely different thing.
It lets it work in wormholes. Period. Without it it will never be adopted by those who live and use wormhole space.
Any yes das boot is a very good analogy for wormhole living, we live and die by stealth.
Would one take ones loud, drunken, fat, uncle in the hawaiian shirt out hunting wolves at night?
That would not end well.
Neither would travelling with the nestor.
So CCP either give the Nestor a covert ops cloak, or arrange for some lore based accident, that requires a recall of the ship and reimburses those who bought it, and just give it a decent burial and we will all try to forget it ever was born so horribly deformed.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3163
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:With bonuses to scan probes and relic/data analyzers? I should hope not.
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for a ship with a $1.5-billion price tag. For that price, one would hope it doesn't suck (but you'd be wrong).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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