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da bankman
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:25:00 -
[1]
Just finished training Heavy assault ships level V and decided to go for Command ships after that. But im having second thoughts since Im worrried I'll never fly my HACs again if I step into a Command ship. Don't wanna have trained that skill for nothing  . Can someone convince me it's still worth going for the Commands and flying them along with HACs? 
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Ter'duk Tarr
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:28:00 -
[2]
I wouldn't worry about not flying you HACs anymore. Do u have leadership skills? What's the need for a Cmd ship? HAC = Hotness. Check out the demand for Cmd ships then check the market for HACs. I would think this speaks for itself. Stick w/ you HAC....but that's just my opinion. |
Dracolich
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:33:00 -
[3]
Simpel really... If cruisers suits your style of play rather than BCs, choose HACs, if its the other way around, well....
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Hotice
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:34:00 -
[4]
For general purpose, HAC is better than Command ships. You can just look at the ship prices then you will realize HAC is far more popular. HACs are faster, have better resistance, do very good damage. Problem of HAC is their cap. A heavy nosf or two will run a HAC pilot's day. Command ship got more weapon slots but they are slower, resistance is good but big signture radius make them take as much damage as battleships. This reduced their tanking ability by a good margin. Over all in lvl 4 missions, HACs perform better than Command ships. Espeically on the hard ones. I know a few friends who tried to Command ships but ended up gone back to HAC. For pvp, command ships are pretty on par with HAC with their heavier fire power. However, Command ships also suffer the same problem as HAC, heavy nosf can really hurt them. Over all, I don't think you will give up on the HACs at especially with HAC 5. HAC as whole is a far superiour package than command ships.
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Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:38:00 -
[5]
I can fly caldari, amarr and gallente so far and have an absolution and a nighthawk.
Good things about commands:
- They are great tanks
- same damage output as HACs
Bad things about commands:
- They are slow
- They turn like pregnant wales
- bigger sig radius as HACs
**Ship lovers click here** |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:39:00 -
[6]
If you enjoy the Cerberus you can take comfort in knowing that training for a Nighthawk is actually a downgrade for you.
Otherwise they are an upgrade but pretty slow and speed is one of the strengths of HAC.
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
The Judge
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:53:00 -
[7]
Command ships deal out more damage than hac's. Compare Absolution to Zealot for example. |
Malacore
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:09:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: The Judge
Command ships deal out more damage than hac's. Compare Absolution to Zealot for example.
But aren't as useful in a lot of cases. Compare Nighthawk to Cerberus for example.
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Yith Solarius
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:13:00 -
[9]
oh and ps the word you'll looking for is obsoleat not absolute 
Todays Idea: Eye for an eye |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Yith Solarius
oh and ps the word you'll looking for is obsoleat not absolute
Err isnt it Obsolete. ?
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:31:00 -
[11]
And when you think stuff hard enough. You can just train for Taranis and be done with it.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ter'duk Tarr
I wouldn't worry about not flying you HACs anymore. Do u have leadership skills? What's the need for a Cmd ship? HAC = Hotness. Check out the demand for Cmd ships then check the market for HACs. I would think this speaks for itself.
It says more people can fly HACs for the same reason more people can fly AFs.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Corn Meal
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:47:00 -
[13]
since most people here are relating Price to how the ships rate ill step in...
Command ships other than the Caldari verion (pos's) are great ships with in the caldari version less dps.. but must have FAR more DPS even some of the Logistic versions have better dps than a Hac
its all about how fast you want to move... as stated the Cmc's are just BS's....
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:53:00 -
[14]
Command ships have the sig radius of battleships, and hence suffer similar weaknesses to battlecruisers.
They're good, but have their drawbacks. HACs still have plenty of reason to exist.
And I've killed plenty of command ships in my HACs (rip blaster Astartes). I dont think we need to panic yet.
Testy's Eve Blog!
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Mr rooflez
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Command ships have the sig radius of battleships, and hence suffer similar weaknesses to battlecruisers.
They're good, but have their drawbacks. HACs still have plenty of reason to exist.
And I've killed plenty of command ships in my HACs (rip blaster Astartes). I dont think we need to panic yet.
Which HACs exactly? The only HAC I can see beating a blaster fitted Astarte is an ECM fitted Ishtar, but that's got everything to do with the ECM and nothing with the tank/damage/speed of the ship.
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Miranda Duvall
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:25:00 -
[16]
I havent flown my eagle from the moment i boarded my vulture...
much better tank (i can fit a SB Amp that i couldnt fit on my eagle) and a dronebay (no need for a webber anymore cuz i can set my t2 small drones on those pesky tacklers.
damage = same, but basically double the hitpoints and effectively 2 extra med slots ...
I love it.
why exactly is cerb > nighthawk btw?
dont fly either, but will someday...
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da bankman
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:58:00 -
[17]
thx for the replies. Im a tech 2 Zealot + Deimos pilot so Absolution and Astarte would be my target ships. I realise they are bigger wich can be their downfall but more tanking ability and more damage instead + of course the command module ability for gangs. I simply wanna be sure that if I train them I wont be replacing my HACs
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mr rooflez
Which HACs exactly? The only HAC I can see beating a blaster fitted Astarte is an ECM fitted Ishtar, but that's got everything to do with the ECM and nothing with the tank/damage/speed of the ship.
Vagabond. The astarte won't even hit the thing.
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Wizie
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Posted - 2006.05.05 00:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Mr rooflez
Which HACs exactly? The only HAC I can see beating a blaster fitted Astarte is an ECM fitted Ishtar, but that's got everything to do with the ECM and nothing with the tank/damage/speed of the ship.
Vagabond. The astarte won't even hit the thing.
How do you define beating?
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Lexor SLice
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Posted - 2006.05.05 01:41:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Lexor SLice on 05/05/2006 01:41:11
sorry, but with hac 5, med ac spec 5, and a mix of faction and t2 gyro's, i dont really know if i could break an astarte's tank, never tried, but i've tried in a bs, and havent had much success.
edit: i meant for the vaga
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.05 02:03:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 05/05/2006 02:04:16
Originally by: Lexor SLice
Edited by: Lexor SLice on 05/05/2006 01:41:11
sorry, but with hac 5, med ac spec 5, and a mix of faction and t2 gyro's, i dont really know if i could break an astarte's tank, never tried, but i've tried in a bs, and havent had much success.
So what did the Astarte have fitted? It almost certainly wasn't a real pvp setup.
EDIT: And was it a permanent tank? You won't hit a vagabond orbitting at the edge of range for 220mm autocannons w/barrage ammo.
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 02:20:00 -
[22]
Go here to see an Astarte in action.
They're powerful ships - offering as much if not more fire-power than a Battleship in a smaller, slightly faster package. They can tank like hell - I know from experience. Especially the Field Command ships. They can soak up damage like milk and cookies. However, unless you know the field, a bit cumbersome for a solo ship.
The Firing Range |
Dracu1a
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Posted - 2006.05.05 03:17:00 -
[23]
I see a lot of talk about the Astarte, but not much on the Eos. From looking at the specs, i would think an eos would be the superior ship between the two gal command ships. Anything im missing here? Im looking at it too from a pilot who has very high drone skills's perspective. But i mean...the higher resists and bigger drone bay would make for a better pvp ship imo. But then again ive yet to get the chance to fly one. Maybe some day :D
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 03:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dracu1a
I see a lot of talk about the Astarte, but not much on the Eos. From looking at the specs, i would think an eos would be the superior ship between the two gal command ships. Anything im missing here? Im looking at it too from a pilot who has very high drone skills's perspective. But i mean...the higher resists and bigger drone bay would make for a better pvp ship imo. But then again ive yet to get the chance to fly one. Maybe some day :D
Eos has more mid-slots, a big drone bay and guns going for it. Of course it can't be that bad
The Firing Range |
Shreven Bulks
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Posted - 2006.05.05 06:51:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Shreven Bulks on 05/05/2006 06:52:29
Originally by: Hotice
For general purpose, HAC is better than Command ships. You can just look at the ship prices then you will realize HAC is far more popular. HACs are faster, have better resistance, do very good damage. Problem of HAC is their cap. A heavy nosf or two will run a HAC pilot's day. Command ship got more weapon slots but they are slower, resistance is good but big signture radius make them take as much damage as battleships. This reduced their tanking ability by a good margin. Over all in lvl 4 missions, HACs perform better than Command ships. Espeically on the hard ones. I know a few friends who tried to Command ships but ended up gone back to HAC. For pvp, command ships are pretty on par with HAC with their heavier fire power. However, Command ships also suffer the same problem as HAC, heavy nosf can really hurt them. Over all, I don't think you will give up on the HACs at especially with HAC 5. HAC as whole is a far superiour package than command ships.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.05.05 07:41:00 -
[26]
ôHACs are faster, have better resistance, do very good damage. Problem of HAC is their cap. A heavy nosf or two will run a HAC pilot's day.ö
Command ships have far better resistance then HACÆs. Half of them have +25% to resistance and all of them can add xx% to resistance from gang assist which puts you way ahead of HACÆs.
Take a Vulture which has HAC base resistance then add 25% resistance from the ship bonusÆs. Then sometimes more then 22.5% from gang assist. My Eos has HAC base resistance; +22.5% resistance from gang assist and a 37.5% amour repair bonus and it runs 2 repairs none stop. Making it far tougher then any HAC.
_________________________________________________
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sableye
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:04:00 -
[27]
I can'nt fly them but I bought an astarte last night 170 mil and absolution for 195 they are a steal at these prices the reason for low prices is not many can fly them yet but I think they will be sweet ships, I think I'll still fly my hacs though as they are good too.
ORC Outrage Recruiting You Today. |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
And I've killed plenty of command ships in my HACs (rip blaster Astartes). I dont think we need to panic yet.
Plenty?.. Please explain
And that Astarte kill, was there a jammer involved or double web?
Command ships, or pretty much all ships are easily taken out by ships fitted for taking them out.
Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!! |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:20:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/05/2006 08:21:09
The Absolution outclasses the Zealot in pretty much every category except maneuverability and sig radius.
Signature removed. Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. - Petwraith |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/05/2006 08:21:09
The Absolution outclasses the Zealot in pretty much every category except maneuverability and sig radius.
The sig and the maneuverability is not its biggest problem... The missing range bonus is 
Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!! |
Dri Kulsane
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Posted - 2006.05.05 10:00:00 -
[31]
HAC's still serve a different purpose than COM's. Price has very little to do with deciding what you will fly and when.
I would still say HAC hands down for PVP. But, COM's interest me for other reasons 
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:28:00 -
[32]
Originally by: LWMaverick
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/05/2006 08:21:09
The Absolution outclasses the Zealot in pretty much every category except maneuverability and sig radius.
The sig and the maneuverability is not its biggest problem... The missing range bonus is
Yup - I fly both Gallente and Amarr HACS (namely the Zealot, I don't like the Sacrilege much) and when I looked at the bonuses I noticed that whilst the Astarte has the Deimos bonuses bar MWD - replaced with a repair bonus - the Absolution has a Sacrilege style resistance bonus and capacitor bonus, and skips the optimal range bonus on the Zealot. Considering Multifrequency and Conflag have optimals just outside of webbing range on a Zealot, I didn't fancy taking such a cumbersome ship that close to the enemy when I could do that in an Astarte and do even more damage.
The Firing Range |
SiLeNCel2
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:59:00 -
[33]
i don¦t understand why everybody compares HACs with Command ships here... isn¦t a COMMAND SHIP supposed to do COMMAND STUFF, for example fitting warfare modules?? i guess it¦s most valuable in big fleets...
Originally by: Al Thorr
Originally by: Yith Solarius
oh and ps the word you'll looking for is obsoleat not absolute
Err isnt it Obsolete. ?
it¦s obso1337!
____
no matter what you say...
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:02:00 -
[34]
The Fleet Commands are, the Field Commands have all damage and defence bonuses so naturally people will treat them as heavy-duty sluggers.
The Firing Range |
Johnny Twoshoe
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:09:00 -
[35]
I'm with the OP... I'm not 100% convinced that Command Ships are all that and a bag of chips.
I'm planning to train for an Absolution, but before I do, I'd like to know if it's really worth it. I fly a Zealot regularly and love it. What's attractive about the Absolution is the insane resistiances and the crazy damage output it's capable of - even higher than a Zealot (!). Since I've already got Gallente Cruiser 5, I could just as easily jump into an Astarte (I simply lack Medium Hybrid 5) if someone manages to talk me out of an Abso.
~~~
Credits to Kilrock for this awesome sig. |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:44:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Johnny Twoshoe
I'm with the OP... I'm not 100% convinced that Command Ships are all that and a bag of chips.
I'm planning to train for an Absolution, but before I do, I'd like to know if it's really worth it. I fly a Zealot regularly and love it. What's attractive about the Absolution is the insane resistiances and the crazy damage output it's capable of - even higher than a Zealot (!). Since I've already got Gallente Cruiser 5, I could just as easily jump into an Astarte (I simply lack Medium Hybrid 5) if someone manages to talk me out of an Abso.
As mentioned, my main reservation on the Absolution is no optimal range bonus. With HAC V I get a 50% bonus on the optimal of my Heavy Pulse IIs, bringing the highest damaging crystals outside of webbing range. If I am going to be getting within webbing range to do meaty damage, I figure I should just get an Astarte, MWD upto them and hit them in the face as hard as I can instead.
The Firing Range |
Troubadour
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:46:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Troubadour on 05/05/2006 13:46:12
if all you are interested in is damage, stay with hacs. if you actually want to be more useful in a gang and don't mind sacraficing a small amount of firepower, go Command ships.
there is more to ships in pvp then damage output.
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:53:00 -
[38]
As has already been said, but people still don't seem to get it, there are two types of Command Ship (henceforth CS, till i think of a better abbreviation).
The Field CS is a BC version of the HAC, with damage that reaches and in some cases outstrips that of a BS (800+ dps easily), and tanking to match. Other advantages include BC HP and cruiser gun tracking, however disadvantages include cap problems for tanking, a sig radius a dreadnought could hit, and a half hour align to warp.
The Fleet CS is a step up from the Gang Warfare setups on BCs. The tanks on these things are amazing, personally i can happily tank 2 normal battleships till I run out of injectors on my claymore, and that's before faction mods. They can also run 3 Warfare Link modules at a time, and have a slight bonus (3% per level) to this ability. Disadvantages include all the above, plus the damage output of a wet paper towel (roughly 120 dps on my arty setup).
I hope that clears a few misconceptions up, and will stop people complaining that Field CS aren't used as Gang Warfare ships. It's because they're not.
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Troubadour
Edited by: Troubadour on 05/05/2006 13:46:12
if all you are interested in is damage, stay with hacs. if you actually want to be more useful in a gang and don't mind sacraficing a small amount of firepower, go Command ships.
there is more to ships in pvp then damage output.
CCP gave us two Tech 2 Battlecruisers. One type has the same damage and defence bonuses as a HAC with more gun-slots and hitpoints, the other can use three gang modules at the same time and is even tougher. The first is absolutely about brute warfare, the latter about gang warfare. People are allowed to choose between the two.
The Firing Range |
Troubadour
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Posted - 2006.05.05 14:05:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Troubadour on 05/05/2006 14:07:20
frigging double post my bad.
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Troubadour
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Posted - 2006.05.05 14:07:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Troubadour on 05/05/2006 14:07:36
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Originally by: Troubadour
Edited by: Troubadour on 05/05/2006 13:46:12
if all you are interested in is damage, stay with hacs. if you actually want to be more useful in a gang and don't mind sacraficing a small amount of firepower, go Command ships.
there is more to ships in pvp then damage output.
CCP gave us two Tech 2 Battlecruisers. One type has the same damage and defence bonuses as a HAC with more gun-slots and hitpoints, the other can use three gang modules at the same time and is even tougher. The first is absolutely about brute warfare, the latter about gang warfare. People are allowed to choose between the two.
I would of never known, having 2 characters that fly them.
Explain to me the nighthawk then. why is it outdamaged, even with a 6th launcher, by a cerb.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 14:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Troubadour
Edited by: Troubadour on 05/05/2006 14:07:36
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Originally by: Troubadour
Edited by: Troubadour on 05/05/2006 13:46:12
if all you are interested in is damage, stay with hacs. if you actually want to be more useful in a gang and don't mind sacraficing a small amount of firepower, go Command ships.
there is more to ships in pvp then damage output.
CCP gave us two Tech 2 Battlecruisers. One type has the same damage and defence bonuses as a HAC with more gun-slots and hitpoints, the other can use three gang modules at the same time and is even tougher. The first is absolutely about brute warfare, the latter about gang warfare. People are allowed to choose between the two.
I would of never known, having 2 characters that fly them.
Explain to me the nighthawk then. why is it outdamaged, even with a 6th launcher, by a cerb.
It's probably something to do with the Nighthawk, rather than something wrong with the other Tech II BCs and/or the people flying them
The Firing Range |
Captin ShadowHawk
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Posted - 2006.05.05 15:53:00 -
[43]
Originally by: SiLeNCel2
i don¦t understand why everybody compares HACs with Command ships here... isn¦t a COMMAND SHIP supposed to do COMMAND STUFF, for example fitting warfare modules?? i guess it¦s most valuable in big fleets...
Originally by: Al Thorr
Originally by: Yith Solarius
oh and ps the word you'll looking for is obsoleat not absolute
Err isnt it Obsolete. ?
it¦s obso1337!
Maybe the word your looking for is obnoxious 
Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith |
da bankman
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Posted - 2006.05.05 16:53:00 -
[44]
Ok, after reading the replies and after some thinking I guess this is my conclusion; HAC's still have exactly the same purpose as before. High damage CRUISERS wich can tank really well and get out fast in sign of trouble. Command ships (absolution/astarte) are bigger/slower but with more damaga/tank. Like someone posted you can look at them as mini battleships except faster, more agile and can carry the command module. Guess it's just a matter of what you are facing wich ship you will undock in. Isn't it even logical to say: To leave HAC for a command ship is like leaving your assault frig for a HAC 
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SiLeNCel2
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Posted - 2006.05.05 17:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
The Fleet Commands are, the Field Commands have all damage and defence bonuses so naturally people will treat them as heavy-duty sluggers.
oooops, should have kept my mouth shut then! 
i never looked at them close enough, since i don¦t fly battlecruisers...
Quote:
Maybe the word your looking for is obnoxious
lol, no didn¦t even know the word, but the first thing google found out was that it¦s the name of a metal band, yeaaaaahh! *bangin¦head
____
no matter what you say...
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.05 17:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: da bankman
Ok, after reading the replies and after some thinking I guess this is my conclusion; HAC's still have exactly the same purpose as before. High damage CRUISERS wich can tank really well and get out fast in sign of trouble. Command ships (absolution/astarte) are bigger/slower but with more damaga/tank. Like someone posted you can look at them as mini battleships except faster, more agile and can carry the command module. Guess it's just a matter of what you are facing wich ship you will undock in. Isn't it even logical to say: To leave HAC for a command ship is like leaving your assault frig for a HAC
No, because there's 2 types of CS. Your post is accurate for Field Command, to an extent, but not for Fleet command. Yet again i would advise reading this thread before posting in it.
sgb
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da bankman
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Posted - 2006.05.05 20:47:00 -
[47]
yeah im only talking about the field command ships here (astarte/absolution) if thats what you mean
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Corphus
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Posted - 2006.05.05 22:22:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Al Thorr
Originally by: Yith Solarius
oh and ps the word you'll looking for is obsoleat not absolute
Err isnt it Obsolete. ?
morons its called Ubzool33t3 !
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Yeux Gris
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Posted - 2006.05.06 22:18:00 -
[49]
main reason i went for absolutions was , zealot prices were stupidly insane.
dont get me wrong i love them to death and hope i get another one day.
I am loving the fact my absolution kiks ass. 85%+ resis accross the board or near 90% if npc tanked.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2006.05.06 22:24:00 -
[50]
command ships have fat arses on them so if your looking for a fast moving manoverable gang then look elsewhere to HAC's.
Else, if you got the isk to spend, and like battlecruisers or a heavy version of a hac, then sure go for it, but remember they have the same weaknesses as cruisers just with more hitpoints really.
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