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Oro Masut
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Posted - 2006.05.09 13:20:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Oro Masut on 09/05/2006 13:21:34
Not really sure if a NOS right now is overpowered or not. Aside from Drones this is one main weapon against small targets like frigs and Intys. It doesn't make sense either, that a frig can scramble a battleship, however i do not want to get into this discussion...
If you are looking for a different way to work a NOS, then make them suck a percentage of the target's max or current cap. Lots of playground there :-)
WCS gimps your fighting abilty. Make your choice BEFORE you undock. Do not complain about a lost ship ever, if you fit for running and go fighting with it |
Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.09 14:58:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 05/05/2006 10:58:34
Tuxford, I call out your name!
If your going through with this change,
Quote:
Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers
Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it.
I think its about time that you start the balance between larger ships and smallers ships. It has been discussed before that smaller ships should not do maximum damage to a larger ship, as it makes sense becouse larger ships has bigger armor and shields which dont get effect a lot when shooting a peanut on it compared to a nuclear missile.
Infact, whetever you go throuh with that change, larger ships and smaller ships should still be balanced damage wise.
You're right... there should absolutely no insentive to train to a Battleship. 
Frigates should be able to PWN Titans... there's no counter for the Titan FUGIDAL weapon... when do we get counters for that?! I want my solo battleship... even though it is a lesser ship than the Titan and can obviously not take nor do the damage that a Titan can... to be able to PWNZERSPLODE a Titan! Gimme a break... The nerf bat is actually listening to people whine about how their frigate sized caps are being drained by battleship sized NOSes? [antiretard]FLY A BIGGER DAMN SHIP!![/antiretard] You should know the risks of flying a frigate into a fight versus a battleship or cruiser or any other ship in this game.
NoSes don't need balancing or Anti-NoSing. It's funny how the player-base can actually tell the Devs of the game that everything is fine, but the Devs don't seem to think so. Frigates don't need to be on the same level as a battleship and neither do their modules. Rediculous notions from people that want to take the easy road to level 60.
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SobaKai.com
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phredrik
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Posted - 2006.05.09 17:10:00 -
[93]
As much as I know RL examples don't work in eve.
A frig scrambling a BS makes perfect sense. First thats the frigs primary role and second the device to scramble a BS should fit in a suit case.
As much as i think NOS is fine now the argument that a BS should not be able to hurt by frigs is just moronic. Go play WOW if you want nothing to count but your time in game. In RL frigs can one shot BS's so your only argument is that you have a bigger ship so you should win.
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Riley Craven
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Posted - 2006.05.10 04:43:00 -
[94]
Originally by: phredrik
As much as I know RL examples don't work in eve.
A frig scrambling a BS makes perfect sense. First thats the frigs primary role and second the device to scramble a BS should fit in a suit case.
As much as i think NOS is fine now the argument that a BS should not be able to hurt by frigs is just moronic. Go play WOW if you want nothing to count but your time in game. In RL frigs can one shot BS's so your only argument is that you have a bigger ship so you should win.
In RL things also make sense. But this is eve and not real life. Things need to be balanced.
There is no reason a frig should be able to scram a bs. But to put things in terms you can understand, in rl a frig cant toe a bs, thus cant keep it in place... so nice try on that one.
Secondly on what planet can a "frig" one shot a bs? Frigs carry light guns and even with rl torps battleships have insanely thick armor. So unless frigs are carrying nukes these days, try again. And for that once in a life time shot that a frig can actaully one shoot a bs, then it took a miracle of god.
Computer games are about balance. Nothing should be more/less uber than anything else. In this game it would not make sense for frig to have as much power as it currently does.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.05.10 22:34:00 -
[95]
Just want to reinforce how important the Dev's must tread on this issue especially the nos issue. Like many have posted we are getting redicules here with people expcting to compete with a 300k frig versus a 100+ million BATTLESHIP. If your having trouble with Bs size nos in your frig FLY A BIGGER SHIP. It is totaly unfair how these people want to have literally no ISK risk by using a frig and expect to put the hurt on someone flying a 100 mill ( big risk ) ship.
I just can't explain in words how broken this game would be if a few million worth of frigs can pwn a 100mill BS, It is getting VERY close to that point now sadly. It just isnt fair that a group of players can put soo little up for risk while putting such a big hurt on someone flying a BS.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.11 09:45:00 -
[96]
battleships can counter frigates with drones and anti frig weapons. Smartbombs as well. I think CCP will thorughly test these features before implementation. Esp on SISI so the end product will feature some extra improvements and a end product change.
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Villium Ezeart
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Posted - 2006.05.12 05:43:00 -
[97]
Yum Deimos sounds like it may become a viable war ship.
But can we get the drones fixed before anything else is broken?
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Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right. |
Jimmy Doe
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Posted - 2006.05.12 07:10:00 -
[98]
frigs scrambling a BS, yes i can deal with that. a frig soloing a BS i cant. thats like saying a cessna can take down an F-18 Hornet with no issues. ( if they ram head on maybe otherwise no way) gimping nos, screw that, they already have limited ranges, if you cant handle the range at which the nos can affect you thne move out of it. as is our only real counters to frigs are nos and painters, webbers arent really all that great considering a targets velocity only really effects tracking not missiles, wheres the ship sig radius nerfs missiles dmg capabilities to smaller ships.
the only saving grace for a bs right now against a frigate is that you can hit that frigate from further away but if its moving with a mwd over 2km/s the dmg from a missile is 0. so technically although you can hit them you cant hurt them till they are in close and not moving at 2km/s. and then it takes forever to take one out unless you are using precision missiles.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2006.05.12 15:17:00 -
[99]
Some good changes in the works Tux, however I'm still a little disappointed by the t2 ammo. I know it was mentioned as a problem but it's a very serious problem. Take a cyclone for example, I'm expected to sacrifice over 60% of my velocity, almost 60% of my cap recharge rate and 25% of my tracking to do 25% more damage. Even though this (to me) is way too much penalty it wouldn't be so bad if those penalties only applied when the guns were active, but as it stands I have to load up t1 ammo then reload every turret as soon as some pvp shows up because the penalties cripple the ship otherwise. This is a common problem for almost any ship with t2 ammo.
I think having the penalties apply only when the gun is active would go a long way to solving some of the t2 ammo related problems.
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Enne
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Posted - 2006.05.13 03:43:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Enne on 13/05/2006 03:44:21
Sigh, am I the only one seeing warp core stabs as a problem, especially when prolonging combat? (rhetorical question) What a waste of time and isk to find out your targets warps away freely because they fit a cheap module that has little impact on their setup. I'm all for stabs, but dammit, not on combat ships.
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Breyghun
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Posted - 2006.05.13 11:49:00 -
[101]
Whenever things get complicated and my brain hurts I resort to Paper, sizzor, stone.
A solo Frig should be able to counter any other ships Electronics but perhaps has to choose what attribute it wants to focus on (Targetting, speed, nos, EM, Tracking etc).
A solo Frig should have a 1% chance of "doing a Hood" (or doing a Luke Skywalker) by which I mean a lucky shot finds the magazine of the target and insta kills it, or the weak spot in design of the target is found and exploited with a well aimed shot. Otherwise, a Frig should be only scratching a bs.
A Solo Frig already has bonuses which allow it to take advantage of it's size and exploit the specialisation of it's enemy in order to escape/evade destruction.
Right, get together a gang of Frigs and suddenly you have a much better chance of locking down more of the enemies attributes, or "doing a Hood".
If you are a new pilot, CCP should be encouraging you to join others in a similar position and use multiple ships to take down more experienced players who have a more expensive ship.
To echo others comments, the balance of risk and reward in the game must be maintained. Scissors never beat stone but 1% of the time perhaps they should.
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Vera Nosfyu
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Posted - 2006.05.14 01:25:00 -
[102]
The problem with nos has nothing to do with frigs being able to solo BS. The concept that they should be able to, except on rare ocassions is absurd.
The problem relates to group engagements. I think we can all agree that the primary role of frigs in group engagements is to tackle. I'm not saying this is the only role, but 90% of the time if there's a fight where a frig is attacking a BS, it's tackling it so something bigger can do the real damage. The thing is, a single heavy nos can generally drain the cap of a frig without much difficulty. You then have a BS using one (or maybe two, if the frig is nossing back) hi slot(s) to completely nullify the effect of the frigate.
Most of us think it should take a lot more than that.
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"Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2006.05.14 06:12:00 -
[103]
Yes I have to agree ALL Hybrids are borked they have been for a very longtime, High energy use, poor tracking and poor damage output compared to other weapon classes with similar cycle times such as lasers.
It would actually be nice to have railguns as a viable option for fitting on Caldari BS again.
As for Defenders, POINT DEFENCE SYSTEMS. =)
Scalable according to platform class and roles, allows great depth and many new options to combat here, question is have you guys finally got the will to start overhauling combat proper?
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2006.05.15 08:32:00 -
[104]
Tux, since you're taking a look a covops ship fitting requirements, any chance of also taking a quick look at the related bomber fitting problems?
Now, the Manticore is massively better than the other bombers, and this is reflected on the market prices (Manticore is double the cost of the others). How to balance all the bombers is a tricky question -- so lets ignore it a bit for now. 
Instead, in the spirit of "incremental fixes", just please rebalance the grids on these ships to take into account the current grid reqs of cruise launchers. In theory the other bombers could get some advantage from using ballistic controls in lows, but currently those lows are needed for MAPCs.
To make the point in a quick fashion: take a Nemesis. Fit two normal t1 cruise launchers on it. See how much grid you have left. Notice that the tech1 intended weapons of this ship take up pretty much all of the grid -- this is without using the other slots at all. To actually use all of the slots, you need a MAPC -- and this is with normal tech1 modules and tiny guns. Anything with more firepower needs 2 MAPCS (!).
This is clearly ridiculous.
I think a simple grid balance, so that all the bombers can fit the t1 cruise launchers and basic weaponry without a MAPC being absolutely necessary, would be a good start. After that, it may be that the others still need some help vs. the Manticore (in fact, I'm pretty sure they do) -- but that can be balanced as another step, if needed.
Flying a bomber except a Manticore currently is an excercise in stupity, especially taking into account the ridiculous cloak prices. You're in a low-insurance 35-40 mil ship that can *maybe* take out a t1 frigate if you get very, very lucky. Sigh. The Nemesis is the saddest example, but the Hound and Purifier also need help. Even the Manticore could use a small grid boost.
Thing is, launcher grid reqs were increased sometime after bombers came out, but bomber grids stayed the same. No wonder fitting them is ridiculous now.
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Noillia Durmot
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Posted - 2006.05.20 09:56:00 -
[105]
I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again. What blasters really need is more damage over time. Big damage and difficult to use. Thats what makes blasters unique. No need to bland them down; just make them better at the thing they do well. Add 10% to DoT and U`ll hear a cheer from here.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Mitchman
How to fix nosferatu:
Don't let any nosf suck more than 10% of the total cap of the target ship, no matter what size it is.
Who would use nos if that was the case? The whole point is draining all their energy so they cant fight.
As for nos counters, im already worried...
Mitchman`s idea goes a bit far but surely what Jim is saying isn`t the case. The whole point of Nos is to do a little harm and get a little help. If you want a mod to drain energy so they cant fight surely that`s Energy Destabiliser.
Nerf the Nos; Luve the Destabiliser.
I`m looking forward to an anti-nos mod. Make it very effective but dont make it effect destabilisers PLZ.
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Noi. |
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