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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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kieron
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:15:00 -
[1]
Tuxford's 'Shiny new nerfbat is locked and loaded' and ready to read. In the Blog, Tux gives a look at some of the changes that will be made to turret weapons, some ships and much more. If you're reading closely, you might even gain some insight into what it takes to balance a ship, module or weapon system against the rest of the game item database.
As for the forthcoming RMR patch, one will be deployed within the next few weeks. Patch Notes will be available SoonÖ.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online |
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Raven Aure
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:19:00 -
[2]
Good post with a really nice heads up for what's coming. Thanks!
Edited - Wrangler
______________________
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
Most people are in write-mode only in these forums
106 days and still a hijack virgin...
Cherry popped!  ~kieron
OMGHI2U Kieron - Eshtir
Eshtir, you stole my colour! - Vanamonde |
Laocoon
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Laocoon on 04/05/2006 22:20:36
Ooh shiny.
Edited - Wrangler
Channels 'Bar Veto' (IC) & Public Channel 'Veto' for info.  |
JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:28:00 -
[4]
 I guess my railguns won't get any loving. Oh well, looking forward to the EWAR changes, thats for sure.
EVEBay
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:35:00 -
[5]
5th! 
Quote:
We are also looking into giving them their fourth bonus, but I've said it before: assault ships aren't really underpowered in general, so giving them a fourth bonus might just upset the balance between them and other classes of ships.
Giving them the 4th bonus they need won't overpower them.
Harpy: 5% resists like the Eagle
Hawk: 5% kinetic dmg, 5% all types dmg, 10% missile Velocity, 5% resists would work for me.
Others: Meh, not important.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:37:00 -
[6]
Oooh, Tux for presidential overlord of eve!
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Shakor Clan Information Portal
Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it. |
keepiru
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:43:00 -
[7]
Mmm, secksay...
----------------
Official ISD cake & bree reserve thief.
Barricades a speciality!
Last stands on request. |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:44:00 -
[8]
Keep up the good work Tux.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:44:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Their signature radius is also larger than on the tech 1 ships they're based on. Actually, their signature radius is more in line with interceptors than assault ships, so that's going to get an increase.
Giving them the 4th bonus they need won't overpower them.
Harpy: 5% resists like the Eagle
Hawk: 5% kinetic dmg, 5% all types dmg, 10% missile Velocity, 5% resists would work for me.
Others: Meh, not important.
edit: Oh, almost forgot, but any chance micor shield extrenders will get changed? Their cpu and grid requiprements make no damn sense given their tiny bonus...
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:49:00 -
[10]
Get your anti nerf bat pheremone spray . only tuppence a tube.
Looks promising tho.
regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:50:00 -
[11]
Change is better than none at all, and the direction you've taken is all for the better. I could argue that some changes are not severe enough, but thats still two out of three in the short run, and room for final improvement in the long run.
Overall I'm happy that individual module/ship balance is getting updated for the better. The issue of prolonging combat can be done so many ways without actually touching tanking, but most of them would be opposed by the player base as it would call for an increase of tracking scale, nerfs to certain ships damage outputs, and an almost forced stance of mixed fleet warfare.
Keep up the good work
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:51:00 -
[12]
Nerfing Javelin Torps would be stupid, they do about 10% more damage on CRUISERS, allow you to hit some of the smaller battleships for full damage, and do good against against battlecruisers (and with the introduction of t2 battlecruisers you need every drop of DPS you can put out cause they all have uber tanks), and are very fast at the cost of vastly reduced movement.
Nerfing them would pretty much make tech II torpedoes worthless, Rage are already borderline useless because 1) you don't shoot capital ships much 2) rarely do you have a fleet of Minmatar recon to target paint for you enough to get somethings signature radius high enough to land even close to full damage 3) no cap recharge sucks.
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:54:00 -
[13]
Theres an awful lot of good stuff on there.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Change is better than none at all, and the direction you've taken is all for the better. I could argue that some changes are not severe enough, but thats still two out of three in the short run, and room for final improvement in the long run.
It's probably better with smaller changes, then see how it works and evaluate them, and then you can make more changes if needed. 
[Read the Rules!] - [Contact us] |
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.04 22:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 04/05/2006 23:02:19
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Nerfing Javelin Torps would be stupid, they do about 10% more damage on CRUISERS, allow you to hit some of the smaller battleships for full damage, and do good against against battlecruisers (and with the introduction of t2 battlecruisers you need every drop of DPS you can put out cause they all have uber tanks), and are very fast at the cost of vastly reduced movement.
Well, Javelin torps have the range of cruise missiles, and absolutely rape battlecrusiers/CCs.
One other word for you Tux: Leadership.
Also:
Quote:
Covert Ops
These guys are expected to fit a Covert Ops Cloaking Device and a Scan Probe Launcher but don't really have the CPU to fit them, especially the Cheetah and Anathema. They could do with a bit of a fitting boost, but I don't want them to become super EWAR cloaking frigs. It would be nice to able to fit something else than a cloak and a probe launcher.
Hows about
Role Bonus: -50% CPU usage to scan probe launchers
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Quote:
Their signature radius is also larger than on the tech 1 ships they're based on. Actually, their signature radius is more in line with interceptors than assault ships, so that's going to get an increase.
Giving them the 4th bonus they need won't overpower them.
And inties will of course get a 4th full bonus rather than the current weak one, right.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
twit brent
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:03:00 -
[17]
Can you please look into giving the nemesis more grid. With just the 2 launchers fitted you have next to no grid left. Also the ares could use a little more grid, as a ship with 4 high slots it has far to little grid (less than alot of tech 1 frigs).
Tachygeddons outperform railthrons as it is but aslong as you give close range back to the megathron i dont care.
Null ammo on the megathron should have a better range bonus, the geddon version can give geddons an optimal of up to 65km! but because of blasters already crap optimal it doesnt help them too much.
WCS need a penalty. Way to many ships these days are throwing them on and its getting impossible to be able to solo pvp.
Give assault frigs a 5-10% bonus to armor/shield hitpoints more to stop people asking for the 4th bonus han anything.
Get rid of the ares useless missile bonus and give it a -10% to warp scrambler bonus to give it a role.
I think artillery could do a bit more damage. With the change to tachyons Apocs are closing in on the ammount of volley damage tempest pilots can do and that all artillery have going for them with their bad tracking and DPS. Maybe make 1200mm artillery damage/s the same as 1400 but with lower dmg mod and higher ROF, So you can choose awesome volley damage but hard to fit or same DPS with enough fitting left over for a bit of a tank.
Maybe lower the deimoses mass so it can be a little more agil. After all it is a blaster ship and should be able to get in range faster.
Thats about it for now.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And inties will of course get a 4th full bonus rather than the current weak one, right.
What tux didn't tell you is that the 4th bonus on all of the assault frigates is to be -5% sig radius/level and that the sig radius on assault frigates is to be increased by 33%.
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: twit brent
Maybe lower the deimoses mass so it can be a little more agil. After all it is a blaster ship and should be able to get in range faster.
The cure to complaining about the Deimos's agility to fly an Astarte for a while. Trust me - you will never complain about the Deimos's agility again.
(Boost BC/CC agility!)
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Nahual
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: twit brent
Maybe lower the deimoses mass so it can be a little more agil. After all it is a blaster ship and should be able to get in range faster.
The cure to complaining about the Deimos's agility to fly an Astarte for a while. Trust me - you will never complain about the Deimos's agility again.
(Boost BC/CC agility!)
Still doesn't hide the fact that the deimos has to be close to the slowest and least agile HAC out there 
Maximum sig image file size is 24kb --Jorauk |
SonOTassadar
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:12:00 -
[21]
Those honestly don't look like 'nerfs' to me, more like buffs all-around for everyone. 
Are there any changes coming to missiles except for a little bit of tweaking to tech2 precisions?
___________________________ |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:19:00 -
[22]
Now, that's not a tiny list.
Good luck with all that, 'Tux...
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Quote:
Their signature radius is also larger than on the tech 1 ships they're based on. Actually, their signature radius is more in line with interceptors than assault ships, so that's going to get an increase.
Giving them the 4th bonus they need won't overpower them.
And inties will of course get a 4th full bonus rather than the current weak one, right.
They'll get 4 bonuses that turn them into tacklers that do their job better than any other ship, just like the Scorpion jams better than any other battleship can. Feel free to reply in the inties thread.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:21:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Well, Javelin torps have the range of cruise missiles, and absolutely rape battlecrusiers/CCs.
Considering the strength of most CBCs tanks and damage output, is that a bad thing? Other than the Nighthawk, they're all very deadly, some of them have near unbreakable tanks for a Raven (Sleipnir).
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:22:00 -
[25]
Crap I almost forgot:
Tux, what about Assault Missiles?
You know, the cruiser-sized short range high DPS ungided missile? The thing that keeps us from having a fun shortrange caracal like we have with rocket kessies and torp ravens...
/me braces for the flames.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Crap I almost forgot:
Tux, what about Assault Missiles?
You know, the cruiser-sized short range high DPS ungided missile? The thing that keeps us from having a fun shortrange caracal like we have with rocket kessies and torp ravens...
/me braces for the flames.
Somehow I think that got abandoned unfortunately, which is too bad.
People will just say Cerberus is teh uber, when really on most t2 setups it does only about 330dps, with scourge heavy missiles.
Ah well.
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Considering the strength of most CBCs tanks and damage output, is that a bad thing? Other than the Nighthawk, they're all very deadly, some of them have near unbreakable tanks for a Raven (Sleipnir).
Well, the Astarte tanks, flies and deals damage like an electron blaster/heavy tanked blasterthron. Command ships are just battleships, if you can kill the battleship counterpart, you can kill the command ship.
I mean even their base prices are about the same, it takes 105mil in minerals to build a megathron, it takes about 80mil in minerals to build an astarte!
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Jinx Barker
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Posted - 2006.05.05 00:18:00 -
[28]
I hope Tuxford reads this,
Could you please take a look at Caldari ships in general, and I am talking about their mass and their agility vs. other similar race ships in game. I understand that speed is not a factor for Caldari, as such. You pointed that out yourself in the blog, however many Caldari pilots, myself included, feel that AGILITY is rather an important part for our survival, and many Caldari ships seem to be gimped on that point.
Otherwise, I am looking forward to testing the current changes on SiSi.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.05 01:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Somehow I think that got abandoned unfortunately, which is too bad.
Please don't say such hurtful things.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.05 02:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Considering the strength of most CBCs tanks and damage output, is that a bad thing? Other than the Nighthawk, they're all very deadly, some of them have near unbreakable tanks for a Raven (Sleipnir).
Well, the Astarte tanks, flies and deals damage like an electron blaster/heavy tanked blasterthron. Command ships are just battleships, if you can kill the battleship counterpart, you can kill the command ship.
I mean even their base prices are about the same, it takes 105mil in minerals to build a megathron, it takes about 80mil in minerals to build an astarte!
Sleipnirs can tank almost 250hp/s and have 70% be their lowest resist (kinetic). 
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.05 02:59:00 -
[31]
Wow... all this talk about tracking in guns and nothing gets brought up about railguns... we shoot faster... but we miss more... and I really like how large guns do named Medium damage...
Sorry... i'll keep it to that. A Blog from the NewNerfer... I've gotta keep myself from rambling...
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SobaKai.com
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.05 03:18:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 05/05/2006 03:20:32
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Considering the strength of most CBCs tanks and damage output, is that a bad thing? Other than the Nighthawk, they're all very deadly, some of them have near unbreakable tanks for a Raven (Sleipnir).
Well, the Astarte tanks, flies and deals damage like an electron blaster/heavy tanked blasterthron. Command ships are just battleships, if you can kill the battleship counterpart, you can kill the command ship.
I mean even their base prices are about the same, it takes 105mil in minerals to build a megathron, it takes about 80mil in minerals to build an astarte!
Sleipnirs can tank almost 250hp/s and have 70% be their lowest resist (kinetic).
That would mean you need 833.3 dps to break the tank - which is crazy. Assuming tech 2 modules an Astarte can't tank even half that.
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.05.05 03:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Considering the strength of most CBCs tanks and damage output, is that a bad thing? Other than the Nighthawk, they're all very deadly, some of them have near unbreakable tanks for a Raven (Sleipnir).
Well, the Astarte tanks, flies and deals damage like an electron blaster/heavy tanked blasterthron. Command ships are just battleships, if you can kill the battleship counterpart, you can kill the command ship.
I mean even their base prices are about the same, it takes 105mil in minerals to build a megathron, it takes about 80mil in minerals to build an astarte!
Sleipnirs can tank almost 250hp/s and have 70% be their lowest resist (kinetic).
WHINE!
Passari will never be safe again
sig thingy under maintenance |
Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.05.05 04:56:00 -
[34]
Nice blog, buttt Nos need a counter? Cap injectors, ecm and nos back.. For a frig, it's tough, sure, but they don't need to be handed everything on a plate, it's getting harder and harder to counter frigs so nos is fine as it is imo and has suitable counters.
[Art of War][- V -] |
Fedaykin Naib
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Posted - 2006.05.05 05:40:00 -
[35]
Again, I must ask when the hell are you going to give us Smartbomb specialization? You've given every primary damage dealing mod specialization, and even drones specialization, what misguided logic makes you believe that you should leave out the last one?
"Long Live the Fighters!"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.05 06:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Considering the strength of most CBCs tanks and damage output, is that a bad thing? Other than the Nighthawk, they're all very deadly, some of them have near unbreakable tanks for a Raven (Sleipnir).
Well, the Astarte tanks, flies and deals damage like an electron blaster/heavy tanked blasterthron. Command ships are just battleships, if you can kill the battleship counterpart, you can kill the command ship.
I mean even their base prices are about the same, it takes 105mil in minerals to build a megathron, it takes about 80mil in minerals to build an astarte!
Sleipnirs can tank almost 250hp/s and have 70% be their lowest resist (kinetic).
WHINE!
TAKE THAT SECOND AMP OFF AND YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
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Chribba
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Posted - 2006.05.05 06:41:00 -
[37]
Please make siege mode to affect mining lasers 
EVE-Files | EVE-Search | Monitor this Thread |
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Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2006.05.05 07:43:00 -
[38]
*reads eagerly then dashes off to find new threads on the AF & Projectile changes*
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Just because you couldn't get a ship to do what you wanted doesn't mean it's a crap ship - it means you're a crap pilot of that ship.
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Sonorra Baki
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:06:00 -
[39]
So, pretty much every turret with an issue, gets a look at, except small and medium beams.
Why not do them all in one go, and get it over with.
If no fix, then just delete them from the items database.
This may not be work safe  -Capsicum |
Mitchman
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:14:00 -
[40]
How to fix nosferatu:
Don't let any nosf suck more than 10% of the total cap of the target ship, no matter what size it is.
teh ioctl doesn't mine - he looks at the asteroids and they warp to the nearest station and refine themselves. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:37:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 05/05/2006 08:38:12
Originally by: Mitchman
How to fix nosferatu:
Don't let any nosf suck more than 10% of the total cap of the target ship, no matter what size it is.
I like that idea.
One could argue that nos is the only defense a larger ship has from a smaller ship too though.
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.05 09:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Mitchman
How to fix nosferatu:
Don't let any nosf suck more than 10% of the total cap of the target ship, no matter what size it is.
Who would use nos if that was the case? The whole point is draining all their energy so they cant fight.
As for nos counters, im already worried...
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The Eve Wiki Project |
Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2006.05.05 09:41:00 -
[43]
Ok you want combat to last longer? Leave everything except the ammo alone....cut the damage bonus by 50% DONT add any new armor, dont add any new hardners, dont add anything.
Blaster need a penalty for the damage they do....
balanced.....
Those big arty guns....so your telling me you can track well with a 1400mm gun? Think about this...this thing has to be HUGE! Sure I see people pick up telephone poles all the time...but they dont swing them around much...
Balance is one thing...but makeing all the ships basicly alike is wrong. Why dont we just have one type of BS then. One type of frigate...etc...etc...
This game is going into a cold war phase...Amarr develop a weapon...Mini's develop a counter for such weapon...bigger missle? a better anti missle system.
How about some basic evasive manuver package?
Nerfering for balance is bad...better to make new items for balance.....
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
We are not ebil forum police, for one thing I don't have a hat :( - Cortes |
Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.05.05 09:50:00 -
[44]
hey hey
Yeah, tis looking good.
Turrets - finally projectiles get some love :)
Ships - hmm but looks good
EWAR - EW is always risky and goes both ways ECM is a good Counter for nos and nos is also anti nos. Defenders sure suck how about a sunburst approach have the missile follow the defender not the otherway around ?
Missiles/TII AMMO
Quake Gimps every ship but when it actually hit its quite yummy
Tremor - nice range but thats about it
Precisions - amazing does exactly what it says on the tin
yes the penalties are obscene i think they could be coped with IF they didnt stack per launcher/turret
TBH there isnt much reason to chose TII ammo over regular ammo. My 14's love Republic Fleet ammo as that does just that little bit more damage and has no penalties and you have the same choice for damage types. the penetration increase makes this the better ammo imho.
as for the changes - bring it on baby swing that bat and spank me hard
"overcome, adapt." - Gunnery Seargent Thomas Highway
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2006.05.05 10:38:00 -
[45]
When is this change coming though? I hope it's not with Kali.
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2006.05.05 10:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Pepperami
Nice blog, buttt Nos need a counter? Cap injectors, ecm and nos back.. For a frig, it's tough, sure, but they don't need to be handed everything on a plate, it's getting harder and harder to counter frigs so nos is fine as it is imo and has suitable counters.
I agree, nos is fine, OMG a frigate has to BBQ a bs... stupid.
A lone frig shouldn't be fighting a bs, even a crusier.
-=====-
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2006.05.05 10:43:00 -
[47]
re: Nos / Neut
cant these things take a %age of the enemies cap & just differ in range / effectiveness?
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.05.05 10:58:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 05/05/2006 10:58:34
Tuxford, I call out your name!
If your going through with this change,
Quote:
Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers
Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it.
I think its about time that you start the balance between larger ships and smallers ships. It has been discussed before that smaller ships should not do maximum damage to a larger ship, as it makes sense becouse larger ships has bigger armor and shields which dont get effect a lot when shooting a peanut on it compared to a nuclear missile.
Infact, whetever you go throuh with that change, larger ships and smaller ships should still be balanced damage wise.
"We brake for nobody"
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:55:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Quote:
Covert Ops
These guys are expected to fit a Covert Ops Cloaking Device and a Scan Probe Launcher but don't really have the CPU to fit them, especially the Cheetah and Anathema. They could do with a bit of a fitting boost, but I don't want them to become super EWAR cloaking frigs. It would be nice to able to fit something else than a cloak and a probe launcher.
Hows about
Role Bonus: -50% CPU usage to scan probe launchers
Sounds like a good suggestion. Yeah, fitting both covops cloak and scan probes on covops is a pain, atm you prett much need Covert Ops V to do that -- which is a bit extreme, since these ships are meant to fit both those modules.
About Tux's list: great stuff, sounds very good and covers most of the issues on my mind.
One thing it doesn't: bombers. Like covops frigates they also have fitting issues, and there is a severe imbalance between the Manticore (3 launchers) and the others (2 launchers). Some balancing there would be appreciated, also.
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Fedaykin Naib
Again, I must ask when the hell are you going to give us Smartbomb specialization? You've given every primary damage dealing mod specialization, and even drones specialization, what misguided logic makes you believe that you should leave out the last one?
The logic that I'd really like to remove the damn things
For smartbombs to get any evolution, their nature has to be changed. We don't have the programming time to assign to that, so until then, they stay how they are.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Pepperami
Nice blog, buttt Nos need a counter? Cap injectors, ecm and nos back.. For a frig, it's tough, sure, but they don't need to be handed everything on a plate, it's getting harder and harder to counter frigs so nos is fine as it is imo and has suitable counters.
I'd like to see the size of your ball ... uhm, I mean cap injectors to counter a couple of big nos
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sonorra Baki
So, pretty much every turret with an issue, gets a look at, except small and medium beams.
Why not do them all in one go, and get it over with.
If no fix, then just delete them from the items database.
Because balancing takes time. Doing the wrong changes hastily is far more damaging than leaving something till it will get the proper time to balance it. You have to start somewhere and blasters haven't had any love for a very long time.
Lasers had their time as the flavor of the month for a very long time, now it's simply time to for them to wait in line as the others did.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:28:00 -
[53]
Interesting blog 
Originally by: Chribba
Please make siege mode to affect mining lasers
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James Don
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Posted - 2006.05.05 14:22:00 -
[54]
Originally by: kieron
Tuxford's 'Shiny new nerfbat is locked and loaded' and ready to read.
Im gonna lock and load my shiny new devbat if he screws up my ECM! 
[Gets on a plane to Iceland to stand behind Tuxford]
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notify : Your cloaking systems are unable to activate due to your ship being within 2000 meters of the nearby Snowballs. |
Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.05.05 14:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Pepperami
Nice blog, buttt Nos need a counter? Cap injectors, ecm and nos back.. For a frig, it's tough, sure, but they don't need to be handed everything on a plate, it's getting harder and harder to counter frigs so nos is fine as it is imo and has suitable counters.
I'd like to see the size of your ball ... uhm, I mean cap injectors to counter a couple of big nos
Well should frigs be able to counter 2 large nos? Certainly not easily - and atm they can with dificulty, either a cap booster (wtf setup?) or regain cap quick enough to get an extra cycle on the scrambler/guns with cprs.. There's also the option to use ecm. So that's 2 counters that are pretty good. Rather than seeing nos nerfed (the idea of which has surprised me a lot!), I'd like to see some sort of skills associated with nos amount or fitting requirements..
[Art of War][- V -] |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.05.05 15:11:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 05/05/2006 15:12:04
With all these advances in 'survivablity' and 'prolonging combat' you really start shortchaning artilleries alpha strike.
Unless you're planning on allowing arty's to do some sub system damage, their former advantage of front-loading their damage is almost null since every single ship has 25% more HP, not to mention yoru plans of increasing it further.
Somethign that needs to be looked at imho.
Please, add another mid to the jaguar. I love it dearly, but it just cant compete against other tacklers (even with the speed bonus) or the wolf for killing power. A 4th mid will help it survive and do its hybrid job beter.
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Friends Forever
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Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2006.05.05 16:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Pepperami
Nice blog, buttt Nos need a counter? Cap injectors, ecm and nos back.. For a frig, it's tough, sure, but they don't need to be handed everything on a plate, it's getting harder and harder to counter frigs so nos is fine as it is imo and has suitable counters.
I'd like to see the size of your ball ... uhm, I mean cap injectors to counter a couple of big nos
Cap relays and rechargers are counter Nos like Mwd/AB is counter webber and so on.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Fedaykin Naib
Again, I must ask when the hell are you going to give us Smartbomb specialization? You've given every primary damage dealing mod specialization, and even drones specialization, what misguided logic makes you believe that you should leave out the last one?
The logic that I'd really like to remove the damn things
For smartbombs to get any evolution, their nature has to be changed. We don't have the programming time to assign to that, so until then, they stay how they are.
Its essential for missions with lots of frigs. I could go more into detail but not here and now.
Originally by: Tuxford
Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers
Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it.
Cap relays and rechargers are counter Nos like Mwd/AB is counter webber and so on.
Originally by: Tuxford
Defender Missiles
I know, not really EWAR, but kind of gives you the same results as a tracking disruptor. These don't really work right now. The only missiles that aren't too fast for them to hit are torpedoes and torps need 3 Defenders to take them out. I've been fiddling with stuff like increasing explosion range and I think I have formulated a cunning plan to fix them.
Give us the defenders that NPCs use and give the skill 10% agility bonus.
Originally by: Tuxford
Assault Ships
The Jaguar, the Vengeance and the Hawk are getting some love. The Hawk becomes more missile-oriented, but the changes to the Jaguar and Vengeance are bit more fuzzy. I've already posted in this thread, but the changes aren't final so we're probably gonna see another thread about these ships.
Removing the vengeance¦s cap recharge bonus will make it a weaker retribution. Its one of the best tanking frig sized ships. Dont destroy that (again on a khanid ship).
**Ship lovers click here** |
Calistro
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Posted - 2006.05.05 16:39:00 -
[58]
I still swear by the idea that being able to focus your shields or even harden armor to certain areas of your ship. Possibly by having a mod do this, so if you are in fleet battles and the enemy is straight ahead, you can focus your shields there making the front alot stronger and the back less hard. Would increase length in battles and provide more tactical things to control instead of the lock, orbit and F1 - F8 that most people do (not only in fleet combat). Of course there are some things to work out, but certainly a way to consider it.
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Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2006.05.05 17:49:00 -
[59]
I think you guys should rethink your caution about upping the armor and shield HP in regards to all the ships. The ratio just is not correct when you have a frigate that can be fitted with 1/3 to 1/2 the armor of Battleship. Seriously. Change is always good, so the list that Tux is working on is a great post to read.
Thanks for the update.
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Tssa
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Posted - 2006.05.05 18:19:00 -
[60]
as a defense for NOS, I've got a couple suggestions:
1. tie it to signature radius, therefore a heavy NOS vs a small frig = greatly reduced NOS effectiveness
2. add a "reflector" module to disrupt the energy stream being pulled by the NOS'ing ship (either canceling out a % of the NOS, or even reflecting part of the stream back at the originating ship
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2006.05.05 18:33:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Mitchman
How to fix nosferatu:
Don't let any nosf suck more than 10% of the total cap of the target ship, no matter what size it is.
Who would use nos if that was the case? The whole point is draining all their energy so they cant fight.
Note that I said 10% of the total cap of a ship. There will be no difference between the same ship class as a nosf there will never suck more than 10% anyway, but it will stop a heavy nosf from killing a HAC or frigate instantly.
teh ioctl doesn't mine - he looks at the asteroids and they warp to the nearest station and refine themselves. |
Exavier Macbeth
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Posted - 2006.05.05 18:40:00 -
[62]
After seeing Tuxford get slammed about his changes in several posts I figured i would make a post of my own.
While yes the changes are probobly not the best that they could be based on public opinion I have to say I like what i am seeing so far. I have been playing EVE off and on for 3 years now and I remember the weapon flavor of the month from the old days. It was so bad that it seemed like there was a new "uber" weapon every few weeks because a different weapon was nerfed due to public responce (no offence ment TomB).
Now we have a new nerfbat wielder who has been on the job for what a month? and he has decided to take a slower approach by making minor changes and seeing how the effect the balance in the "Live" enviroment, which we all know is where any imbalances really show up, then planning to follow up with more boosts or nerfs at a later date as needed. On top of this I have seen him post replys in so many threads even i wonder how he gets work done lol.
And what does it seem the community is doing? They are slamming him left and right about the changes he is making because they are not an Immediate and possible Perminate fix for issues that most of us have delt with for years. I personally would like to Commend Tuxford on the efforts he has done so far and let him know that I really appreciate the way he is doing it (Baby Steps) as its painfully apparent from past times that the "Insta fix" doesn't usually work.
The only thing i think will make it better though is more knowledge into all the changes that are going to take place. I do have to agree that some of the discriptions are a little vauge unless you take the time to read all the supporting threads that you have posted in.
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James Snowscoran
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Posted - 2006.05.05 19:22:00 -
[63]
One way to make combat last longer could be to give ships ten times as much structure HP, while reducing the damage control bonus to 5% increase to structure resists. This would make the ships survive longer without giving anyone any kind of unbeatable tank, cause if you've come far enough to deal structure damage it means you've basically overcome their main tank anyways. Again, though, this probably gives Amarr ships an advantage because of their big cap which means they can keep repping while the structure is rotting away.
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Cosmo Raata
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Posted - 2006.05.05 20:53:00 -
[64]
So Oveur, tell me how exactly Tux can nerf an item without completely making ships that rely on it with bonuses uterly useless. Nerfed Nos = curse, pilgrim, ashimu & that amarr/minmitar bs become worthless. I mean, nerfing one type of gun allows ships to use different guns, nerf a specific mod, change mods. Nerf the Item your ship gets a bonus to?? So the curse gets a bonus to the new/improved yet uber nerfed nos, then has good drones & tracking disruption, I can see the price drop from the 85-95 mil it is now to 40 mil like a logistics cruiser. As I see it, any nerf has to affect only ships without the bonuses, somehow....
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So'Kar
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Posted - 2006.05.05 21:25:00 -
[65]
Edited by: So''Kar on 05/05/2006 21:25:03
Quote:
Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers
Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it.
Please no, we have enough of rocks, papers and scissors. Tracking or sig radius both are better even though I don't like either much. Here is some ideas. Personally I like having cooldown on nos or that these dont drain cap, but nerf recharge. Or just increase cycle time on heavy nos a lot and little on medium nos.
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Derran
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Posted - 2006.05.05 21:44:00 -
[66]
About the length of ship combat part. I agree it tends to be too short. What about a slight HP gain again (like 5%) and do something about the whole '20 vs 1' scenario. That is often what makes the combat so short. I remember reading a long time ago an idea to work around that.
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Kotori
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Posted - 2006.05.05 23:00:00 -
[67]
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
you cant nerf my typhoon... my poor baby. She snipes like a biatch, and your goign to take it away from her :'(. Please dont do it. Ill love you forever ^^
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Calprimus
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Posted - 2006.05.06 01:26:00 -
[68]
So, no love for the NightHawk?
Dang......
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.06 04:14:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
One could argue that nos is the only defense a larger ship has from a smaller ship too though.
Give us long range webbers and NOS can get 'balanced' for all I care.
20km webs with 50% web.
30km with 35% web.
40km with 20% web.
Pretty please?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.06 04:16:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Jim Raynor
One could argue that nos is the only defense a larger ship has from a smaller ship too though.
Give us long range webbers and NOS can get 'balanced' for all I care.
20km webs with 50% web.
30km with 35% web.
40km with 20% web.
Pretty please?
So blaster ships should be completely useless instead of kind of mostly useless if you don't land within 10km?
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.05.06 04:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Jim Raynor
One could argue that nos is the only defense a larger ship has from a smaller ship too though.
Give us long range webbers and NOS can get 'balanced' for all I care.
20km webs with 50% web.
30km with 35% web.
40km with 20% web.
Pretty please?
Webber drones?
[Art of War][- V -] |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.06 04:23:00 -
[72]
I was thinking more along the lines of those annoying-ass frigs that buzz around outside NOS range.
No harm in nerfing blasterships much, though I doubt that 20% speed loss is going to be very devastating.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Kage Getsu
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Posted - 2006.05.06 07:53:00 -
[73]
The probe solution is to reduce the CPU usage of probes. I don't see why they use more than 100.
If you're afraid of other ships using them, bump them up to 10,000 and add a reduction bonus to covert ops and the scan frigates.
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Lucian Corvinus
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Posted - 2006.05.06 09:35:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Calprimus
So, no love for the NightHawk?
Dang......
no ofcourse not, this seems alittle like some nerf caldari changes to me.
boosts: blasters, autocannons, artillery tachyons and defenders -> almost non caldari
nerf: nos, ecm and t2 missiles -> almost only caldari
well just my 2 iskies
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Zenst
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Posted - 2006.05.06 10:57:00 -
[75]
Ah would this be a dev post were they dont tell us about any plans to fix modules broken for eons but loko at the new shiney balls comming type dev post. Or is it a we are fixing current issues and not doing any new shiney balls untill we have a solid base-line.
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This post may contain sarcasim but unfortunatly you have no logs to back that up
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.05.06 11:49:00 -
[76]
plz fix tactical shield manipulation skill :)
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Cringeley
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Posted - 2006.05.06 13:11:00 -
[77]
Extending combat sounds like a great idea in theory, and it might be good for people who want to fight like knights in single combat. I don't think it's much use for fleet combat, however. In fleet combat you either have time to think (non-primary) or you see a rapid explosion of red pixels in your shield, armour and hull bars before hastily "boarding ship". The buffs and nerfs required to make a significant difference to the nature or duration of fleet combat would, I think, be too far-reaching.
As far as "heat" is concerned, I thought that was what the capacitor was for. I don't know about other players, but I usually can't leave everything running constantly on my ship. It's MWD or tank, not both. Extending that specially to all weapons (not just high cap weapons) via a heat and weapon explosion system seems like a needless complication.
I am wary of any attempt to shape combat to a particular form that one or more devs happen to like. Eve is quite a mature game in terms of development and player immersion. Radical changes to something as fundamental as combat strike me as a bad idea compared to the kinds of changes that open new options and play types at higher levels (e.g. sovereignty and outposts).
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Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just,
But four times he who gets his blow in fust. |
Ja'kar
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Posted - 2006.05.06 17:43:00 -
[78]
Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers
please leave the nos alone ffs frigÆs are not supposed to be able to out do bs - can a bs not have anything better than a frig - why does it seam that bs always get hit...
nos work fine (will admit that it might be better if they sucked less cap out but that should apply to all mods
Frigs are overpowered against bs I Think
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.05.06 18:00:00 -
[79]
Is there ANY chance at all that we could move to at least a 4 to 6 week regularized schedule for these types of small incremental changes in regards to balancing as aspect of the game?
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Riley Craven
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Posted - 2006.05.06 21:21:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Pepperami
Nice blog, buttt Nos need a counter? Cap injectors, ecm and nos back.. For a frig, it's tough, sure, but they don't need to be handed everything on a plate, it's getting harder and harder to counter frigs so nos is fine as it is imo and has suitable counters.
I'd like to see the size of your ball ... uhm, I mean cap injectors to counter a couple of big nos
Haha your a funny man. First of all I can already out tank a thron and hold cap with full tank in my raven indef with two full best named heavy nos on me. And I dont need a single cap injector to do it, nor do I need to cheat like the previous Raven setup did with all those cap relays.
But I personally think these changes are a joke.
Its not bad enough your are gimping battleships against smaller ships but now you are making it even harder if you make changes to nos. On what planet can a BS not take out a frig but a frig can take out a BS? I dont understand why you listen to all the frig whiners out there in the first place that think that they can go around pwing everything in sight solo. What a joke.
As for as defenders are concerned: I see another bad change in the works. It seems to me just about every single NPC out there fires them forcing the Raven to use only torps so the damage isnt gimped when using other missles. Its not like all the npcs use turret tracking disrupters or whatever so why should they all have defenders.
Some of the npcs are even overpowered in that regard. For example the huge drone on the 3 lvl of a blood riader 6/10. Since when can defenders one shot torps? Torps are big and slow and should have alot of hp and need a min of 2 to kill AS well as CRUISE missles. There is no logic behind being able to kill one cruise missle with one defender.
To make matters worse the so called comparison to tracking disrupters is lame to begin with. I think you need to figure out the true purpose of defenders before you start making changes. You also need to consider the Raven cant use all its missle slots to begin with where as other ships such as the apoc have 8 turret slots. So defenders gimp us even more so than other ships.
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Cheeb Aman
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Posted - 2006.05.06 21:34:00 -
[81]
I think change is good to maintain balance and working on little changes here and there is the best way to go about it so gl with that.
Now for my little complaint :)
Why do cruise missiles when fired from a stealth bomber suddenly vanish when you recloak? you already cant do anything else whilst cloaked at least let our missiles work. sorry for going slightly off topic :P |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.07 12:59:00 -
[82]
Tux, have a look at increasing the agility of battlecruisers.
An excellent post about this is posted here.
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Ja'kar
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Posted - 2006.05.07 15:37:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Ja''kar on 07/05/2006 15:37:40
ts not bad enough your are gimping battleships against smaller ships but now you are making it even harder if you make changes to nos. On what planet can a BS not take out a frig but a frig can take out a BS? I dont understand why you listen to all the frig whiners out there in the first place that think that they can go around pwing everything in sight solo. What a joke
f me I am not alone in thinking frigs vs. bs are over pwowered- tbh bs need some love - how long they been in game now...
I love frigs still fly them for fun- but they are way over powered
leave the nos alone bigger is better in nos terms after how can bigger nos suck less?
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.05.07 19:53:00 -
[84]
I think an important aspect of balancing that MUST NOT BE OVERLOOKED, is the cost per ship. I know alot of people like to fly frigs ( they are fast and cheap IE no risk to loose ), and that is a big reason why you strive to make them fairly effective, but you know what? A frig doesnt have to stand up to a battleship, it can lock much faster, align and warp much faster and travel much faster, add to that that at close distances the BS can nay scratch a frigate.
I am concerned that in your zeal to make frigates stronger you will forget the fact that frigates got like 1/100th the cost of a BS. I am concerned you are gonna leave the big ships NO outs when a couple frigates run up on it, I do not think it is reasonable that 3 million worth of frigates should have a good chance to dropping a 100mill BS, and we are getting near that point now.
NOS is one of the few defenses a BS has vs frigates for its "out". There is nothing wrong with frigates avoiding BS's rather than licking thier chops and pwning them.
I would be more concerned about making uber cloaked ships than NOS, a cloaked ship that can easily scan/probe? what defense is there for that? As it is most times the answer in EVE now is check local if you see someone then LOG!
I would like to see a few more counters to cloaking, maybe not a decloaker or allowing cloaked to be targeted but atleast allowing people to know they are "around".
I think rails needs some love also, and would agree with the player about some of the "caldari issues" would like to hold more missles in my raven hull, and overall the agility is a bit gimp, when you consider how important aligning to warp time is.
Anyrate glad you guys are working on combat and have a senseful plan of making small changes, to acheive your goal, rather than big huge game breaking ones. I really like longer player vs player combat :), and love to see alot more counter measures for tactics!
PS one problem you will always seem to run into with eve when talking about combat is the limits of the mods you can equips, maybe the answer lies in some combo mods, or a skill to allow some limited mod swaping in space. Right now eve doesn't allow you much latitude for a general set up everything is often better done as specialized which causes balance problems. IE you can never truly counter scramblers because they will run a designated "tackler" so nothing less than a full out WCS set up can help you, and who flys around with a all out WCS set up hoping someone comes along to try to scramble them just so they can run away?
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.05.07 21:34:00 -
[85]
WOW this is the first time i noticed this thread and WOOT @
Gallente Recon ships
Pretty simple really, it could do with a bit of a higher bonus to its warp scrambling range.
thats is Greaat news!
ok no more whining from me here ^^
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In worldwar 2 they called me *****slap |
Zaakary
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Posted - 2006.05.08 06:46:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Tuxford
Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it.
I had this idea 2 month ago. I would probably fit my Claw with it, but not my Stiletto.
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E'rdeh
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Posted - 2006.05.08 10:42:00 -
[87]
Edited by: E''rdeh on 08/05/2006 10:43:21
reading tuxfords post, i only want to remind him that ppl tend to whine about all things alot and changes to the game should be based mainly on your own thoughts, dear ccp, and not on the average forumwarrior's.
like, common sense says defender missles and ecm burst must be fixed, because no-one uses those. but how about all the turretfixes, like blasters are already nberweapons, and ppl whine and u "fix" those??
but then again, dont listen to me :) im a forumwarrior too. just keep the changes a bit surprising, dark and interesting, not "who whines the most gets the change".
best wishes on the new job.
--
Sig removed, please keep it below 24000 bytes, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
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Baleur
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:01:00 -
[88]
"Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers
Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it. "
Agreed!! Almost every aspect in eve has a counter to make interesting tactical discoveries when facing an enemy, but the nosferatu is all alone!
Every single time you bring a nos to a fight you are 100% certain that you will get more capacity energy while draining the enemies.
That needs to change, there needs to be a cloud of uncertainty about wether oor not the enemy will be fitted with some sort of anti-nos module, maby a module that reverses it??
Making NOS a greatly benificial module as it is now, but also potentially dangerous to yourself!
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OzDeaDMeaT
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Posted - 2006.05.08 15:14:00 -
[89]
Something that reduces Fleet battle lag and maybe reduces the cat and mouse of fleet battles would be good.
Something like a 250km range warp scrambler that stops EVERYONE from warping for 10 minutes within that range. Sure would make fleet battles alot more decisive and give another tactic to the battles.
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Noveron
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Posted - 2006.05.08 23:22:00 -
[90]
The game has enough worries about the pvp side, which is fine.. what about other aspects of the game?
Trading sucks atm and its null.
Exploring is non-existant.. specially weird for a "space" game.
NPC's need to be more lively, they are boring actually.
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Oro Masut
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Posted - 2006.05.09 13:20:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Oro Masut on 09/05/2006 13:21:34
Not really sure if a NOS right now is overpowered or not. Aside from Drones this is one main weapon against small targets like frigs and Intys. It doesn't make sense either, that a frig can scramble a battleship, however i do not want to get into this discussion...
If you are looking for a different way to work a NOS, then make them suck a percentage of the target's max or current cap. Lots of playground there :-)
WCS gimps your fighting abilty. Make your choice BEFORE you undock. Do not complain about a lost ship ever, if you fit for running and go fighting with it |
Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.09 14:58:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 05/05/2006 10:58:34
Tuxford, I call out your name!
If your going through with this change,
Quote:
Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers
Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it.
I think its about time that you start the balance between larger ships and smallers ships. It has been discussed before that smaller ships should not do maximum damage to a larger ship, as it makes sense becouse larger ships has bigger armor and shields which dont get effect a lot when shooting a peanut on it compared to a nuclear missile.
Infact, whetever you go throuh with that change, larger ships and smaller ships should still be balanced damage wise.
You're right... there should absolutely no insentive to train to a Battleship.
Frigates should be able to PWN Titans... there's no counter for the Titan FUGIDAL weapon... when do we get counters for that?! I want my solo battleship... even though it is a lesser ship than the Titan and can obviously not take nor do the damage that a Titan can... to be able to PWNZERSPLODE a Titan! Gimme a break... The nerf bat is actually listening to people whine about how their frigate sized caps are being drained by battleship sized NOSes? [antiretard]FLY A BIGGER DAMN SHIP!![/antiretard] You should know the risks of flying a frigate into a fight versus a battleship or cruiser or any other ship in this game.
NoSes don't need balancing or Anti-NoSing. It's funny how the player-base can actually tell the Devs of the game that everything is fine, but the Devs don't seem to think so. Frigates don't need to be on the same level as a battleship and neither do their modules. Rediculous notions from people that want to take the easy road to level 60.
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SobaKai.com
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phredrik
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Posted - 2006.05.09 17:10:00 -
[93]
As much as I know RL examples don't work in eve.
A frig scrambling a BS makes perfect sense. First thats the frigs primary role and second the device to scramble a BS should fit in a suit case.
As much as i think NOS is fine now the argument that a BS should not be able to hurt by frigs is just moronic. Go play WOW if you want nothing to count but your time in game. In RL frigs can one shot BS's so your only argument is that you have a bigger ship so you should win.
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Riley Craven
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Posted - 2006.05.10 04:43:00 -
[94]
Originally by: phredrik
As much as I know RL examples don't work in eve.
A frig scrambling a BS makes perfect sense. First thats the frigs primary role and second the device to scramble a BS should fit in a suit case.
As much as i think NOS is fine now the argument that a BS should not be able to hurt by frigs is just moronic. Go play WOW if you want nothing to count but your time in game. In RL frigs can one shot BS's so your only argument is that you have a bigger ship so you should win.
In RL things also make sense. But this is eve and not real life. Things need to be balanced.
There is no reason a frig should be able to scram a bs. But to put things in terms you can understand, in rl a frig cant toe a bs, thus cant keep it in place... so nice try on that one.
Secondly on what planet can a "frig" one shot a bs? Frigs carry light guns and even with rl torps battleships have insanely thick armor. So unless frigs are carrying nukes these days, try again. And for that once in a life time shot that a frig can actaully one shoot a bs, then it took a miracle of god.
Computer games are about balance. Nothing should be more/less uber than anything else. In this game it would not make sense for frig to have as much power as it currently does.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.05.10 22:34:00 -
[95]
Just want to reinforce how important the Dev's must tread on this issue especially the nos issue. Like many have posted we are getting redicules here with people expcting to compete with a 300k frig versus a 100+ million BATTLESHIP. If your having trouble with Bs size nos in your frig FLY A BIGGER SHIP. It is totaly unfair how these people want to have literally no ISK risk by using a frig and expect to put the hurt on someone flying a 100 mill ( big risk ) ship.
I just can't explain in words how broken this game would be if a few million worth of frigs can pwn a 100mill BS, It is getting VERY close to that point now sadly. It just isnt fair that a group of players can put soo little up for risk while putting such a big hurt on someone flying a BS.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.11 09:45:00 -
[96]
battleships can counter frigates with drones and anti frig weapons. Smartbombs as well. I think CCP will thorughly test these features before implementation. Esp on SISI so the end product will feature some extra improvements and a end product change.
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Villium Ezeart
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Posted - 2006.05.12 05:43:00 -
[97]
Yum Deimos sounds like it may become a viable war ship.
But can we get the drones fixed before anything else is broken?
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Jimmy Doe
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Posted - 2006.05.12 07:10:00 -
[98]
frigs scrambling a BS, yes i can deal with that. a frig soloing a BS i cant. thats like saying a cessna can take down an F-18 Hornet with no issues. ( if they ram head on maybe otherwise no way) gimping nos, screw that, they already have limited ranges, if you cant handle the range at which the nos can affect you thne move out of it. as is our only real counters to frigs are nos and painters, webbers arent really all that great considering a targets velocity only really effects tracking not missiles, wheres the ship sig radius nerfs missiles dmg capabilities to smaller ships.
the only saving grace for a bs right now against a frigate is that you can hit that frigate from further away but if its moving with a mwd over 2km/s the dmg from a missile is 0. so technically although you can hit them you cant hurt them till they are in close and not moving at 2km/s. and then it takes forever to take one out unless you are using precision missiles.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2006.05.12 15:17:00 -
[99]
Some good changes in the works Tux, however I'm still a little disappointed by the t2 ammo. I know it was mentioned as a problem but it's a very serious problem. Take a cyclone for example, I'm expected to sacrifice over 60% of my velocity, almost 60% of my cap recharge rate and 25% of my tracking to do 25% more damage. Even though this (to me) is way too much penalty it wouldn't be so bad if those penalties only applied when the guns were active, but as it stands I have to load up t1 ammo then reload every turret as soon as some pvp shows up because the penalties cripple the ship otherwise. This is a common problem for almost any ship with t2 ammo.
I think having the penalties apply only when the gun is active would go a long way to solving some of the t2 ammo related problems.
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Enne
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Posted - 2006.05.13 03:43:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Enne on 13/05/2006 03:44:21
Sigh, am I the only one seeing warp core stabs as a problem, especially when prolonging combat? (rhetorical question) What a waste of time and isk to find out your targets warps away freely because they fit a cheap module that has little impact on their setup. I'm all for stabs, but dammit, not on combat ships.
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Breyghun
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Posted - 2006.05.13 11:49:00 -
[101]
Whenever things get complicated and my brain hurts I resort to Paper, sizzor, stone.
A solo Frig should be able to counter any other ships Electronics but perhaps has to choose what attribute it wants to focus on (Targetting, speed, nos, EM, Tracking etc).
A solo Frig should have a 1% chance of "doing a Hood" (or doing a Luke Skywalker) by which I mean a lucky shot finds the magazine of the target and insta kills it, or the weak spot in design of the target is found and exploited with a well aimed shot. Otherwise, a Frig should be only scratching a bs.
A Solo Frig already has bonuses which allow it to take advantage of it's size and exploit the specialisation of it's enemy in order to escape/evade destruction.
Right, get together a gang of Frigs and suddenly you have a much better chance of locking down more of the enemies attributes, or "doing a Hood".
If you are a new pilot, CCP should be encouraging you to join others in a similar position and use multiple ships to take down more experienced players who have a more expensive ship.
To echo others comments, the balance of risk and reward in the game must be maintained. Scissors never beat stone but 1% of the time perhaps they should.
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Vera Nosfyu
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Posted - 2006.05.14 01:25:00 -
[102]
The problem with nos has nothing to do with frigs being able to solo BS. The concept that they should be able to, except on rare ocassions is absurd.
The problem relates to group engagements. I think we can all agree that the primary role of frigs in group engagements is to tackle. I'm not saying this is the only role, but 90% of the time if there's a fight where a frig is attacking a BS, it's tackling it so something bigger can do the real damage. The thing is, a single heavy nos can generally drain the cap of a frig without much difficulty. You then have a BS using one (or maybe two, if the frig is nossing back) hi slot(s) to completely nullify the effect of the frigate.
Most of us think it should take a lot more than that.
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"Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2006.05.14 06:12:00 -
[103]
Yes I have to agree ALL Hybrids are borked they have been for a very longtime, High energy use, poor tracking and poor damage output compared to other weapon classes with similar cycle times such as lasers.
It would actually be nice to have railguns as a viable option for fitting on Caldari BS again.
As for Defenders, POINT DEFENCE SYSTEMS. =)
Scalable according to platform class and roles, allows great depth and many new options to combat here, question is have you guys finally got the will to start overhauling combat proper?
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2006.05.15 08:32:00 -
[104]
Tux, since you're taking a look a covops ship fitting requirements, any chance of also taking a quick look at the related bomber fitting problems?
Now, the Manticore is massively better than the other bombers, and this is reflected on the market prices (Manticore is double the cost of the others). How to balance all the bombers is a tricky question -- so lets ignore it a bit for now.
Instead, in the spirit of "incremental fixes", just please rebalance the grids on these ships to take into account the current grid reqs of cruise launchers. In theory the other bombers could get some advantage from using ballistic controls in lows, but currently those lows are needed for MAPCs.
To make the point in a quick fashion: take a Nemesis. Fit two normal t1 cruise launchers on it. See how much grid you have left. Notice that the tech1 intended weapons of this ship take up pretty much all of the grid -- this is without using the other slots at all. To actually use all of the slots, you need a MAPC -- and this is with normal tech1 modules and tiny guns. Anything with more firepower needs 2 MAPCS (!).
This is clearly ridiculous.
I think a simple grid balance, so that all the bombers can fit the t1 cruise launchers and basic weaponry without a MAPC being absolutely necessary, would be a good start. After that, it may be that the others still need some help vs. the Manticore (in fact, I'm pretty sure they do) -- but that can be balanced as another step, if needed.
Flying a bomber except a Manticore currently is an excercise in stupity, especially taking into account the ridiculous cloak prices. You're in a low-insurance 35-40 mil ship that can *maybe* take out a t1 frigate if you get very, very lucky. Sigh. The Nemesis is the saddest example, but the Hound and Purifier also need help. Even the Manticore could use a small grid boost.
Thing is, launcher grid reqs were increased sometime after bombers came out, but bomber grids stayed the same. No wonder fitting them is ridiculous now.
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Noillia Durmot
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Posted - 2006.05.20 09:56:00 -
[105]
I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again. What blasters really need is more damage over time. Big damage and difficult to use. Thats what makes blasters unique. No need to bland them down; just make them better at the thing they do well. Add 10% to DoT and U`ll hear a cheer from here.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Mitchman
How to fix nosferatu:
Don't let any nosf suck more than 10% of the total cap of the target ship, no matter what size it is.
Who would use nos if that was the case? The whole point is draining all their energy so they cant fight.
As for nos counters, im already worried...
Mitchman`s idea goes a bit far but surely what Jim is saying isn`t the case. The whole point of Nos is to do a little harm and get a little help. If you want a mod to drain energy so they cant fight surely that`s Energy Destabiliser.
Nerf the Nos; Luve the Destabiliser.
I`m looking forward to an anti-nos mod. Make it very effective but dont make it effect destabilisers PLZ.
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