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The 'fix' that won't fix anything at all

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Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Deja Thoris I'd rather bang my head against a wall then debate with you. Go for it!! Maybe it'll improve your reading comprehension Quote: next we'll be told people like nasty pvp'rs **ed their beds as children and were felt up as youngsters and need to take it out on other peoples pixels. Just to refresh your obviously poor memory, this is what I said about PvP (hint: pay attention to the second to last sentence** and try to work out what it means no matter how tough it gets). And the edited addition was added an hour before you posted, so don't tell me you didn't see it "Yeah. I'm trembling all over. More like can't be bothered dealing with the a$$hole magnet that PvP is. (edited: note that I did not say that PvP'ers are, simply that PvP gets more than it's fair share of them, and I prefer to avoid them. And, to be completely fair, it also gets more than it's fair share of the best people in mmorpg's. But the losers kill it for me)" "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Calio "Yeah. I'm trembling all over. More like can't be bothered dealing with the a$$hole magnet that PvP is. (edited: note that I did not say that PvP'ers are, simply that PvP gets more than it's fair share of them, and I prefer to avoid them. And, to be completely fair, it also gets more than it's fair share of the best people in mmorpg's. But the losers kill it for me)" Why is it then that the majority of the "********s" I meet in EVE aren't PvPers? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that the majority of the "********s" I meet in EVE aren't PvPers? Cause there are 4x as many non-PvPers than PvPers. Simple math. You're talking numbers and I'm talking %'s "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Calio Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that the majority of the "********s" I meet in EVE aren't PvPers? Cause there are 4x as many non-PvPers than PvPers. Simple math. You're talking numbers and I'm talking %'s I'd beg to differ. Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? You're right. I'm wrong. I was thinking in general (and not EVE-specific) terms. EVE is a PvP centered game and draws an above average number of people who enjoy it. The 80% number is for mmorpg's in general. But the math still holds. There are (corrected) 2x as many non-PvP'ers than PvP'ers. Hence you meet more of them. But in empire you can simply block and forget them. In PvP space, you may be able to block the smack talk, but you still have to deal with them. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Calio Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? You're right. I'm wrong. I was thinking in general (and not EVE-specific) terms. EVE is a PvP centered game and draws an above average number of people who enjoy it. The 80% number is for mmorpg's in general. But the math still holds. There are (corrected) 2x as many non-PvP'ers than PvP'ers. Hence you meet more of them. But in empire you can simply block and forget them. In PvP space, you may be able to block the smack talk, but you still have to deal with them. Actually, you're probably right. Half the alliance membership is probably alts [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Xanthia Di'Makir	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Calio I for one: 1) do not enjoy killing other players 2) Do not enjoy taking their stuff 3) Definitely do not enjoy being ganked while I'm fighting NPC's by someone who gets their rocks off by doing that sort of thing and would run at the first sign of an even fight 4) Do not need or want the adrenaline rush of constantly having to watch my back and local. So do 80% of the mmorpg players by every poll that's ever been taken in the history of mmorpg's. CCP is aware of the need to accomdate people who simply do not want to engage in PvP (nomatter what the benefits) if they want to have a finacially successful game. You'd best get over it. Originally by: Deja Thoris meh, ** it, I'd rather bang my head against a wall then debate with you. Typical carebear whiner (see phrases like "a$$hole", "loser", "getting ganked", "rocks off") next we'll be told people like nasty pvp'rs **ed their beds as children and were felt up as youngsters and need to take it out on other peoples pixels. Stick in lag hell and whine about that. It's one whine or the other so its a no-win situation for CCP. Deja. You really need to take off your rose colored glasses and face up to the fact that Calio is bang on the money. If he's part of a small carebear minority, please explain the player distribution in EVE as shown here. kkthx.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:38:00 - [38] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/05/2006 23:38:13 Originally by: Xanthia Di'Makir Originally by: Calio I for one: 1) do not enjoy killing other players 2) Do not enjoy taking their stuff 3) Definitely do not enjoy being ganked while I'm fighting NPC's by someone who gets their rocks off by doing that sort of thing and would run at the first sign of an even fight 4) Do not need or want the adrenaline rush of constantly having to watch my back and local. So do 80% of the mmorpg players by every poll that's ever been taken in the history of mmorpg's. CCP is aware of the need to accomdate people who simply do not want to engage in PvP (nomatter what the benefits) if they want to have a finacially successful game. You'd best get over it. Originally by: Deja Thoris meh, ** it, I'd rather bang my head against a wall then debate with you. Typical carebear whiner (see phrases like "a$$hole", "loser", "getting ganked", "rocks off") next we'll be told people like nasty pvp'rs *ed their beds as children and were felt up as youngsters and need to take it out on other peoples pixels. Stick in lag hell and whine about that. It's one whine or the other so its a no-win situation for CCP. Deja. You really need to take off your rose colored glasses and face up to the fact that Calio is bang on the money. If he's part of a small carebear minority, please explain the player distribution in EVE as shown here. kkthx. 1. Map in 0.0 is bugged to heck. I've seen it report 3 people in space when there were 100 or more. 2. The vast majority of PvPers* are in empire most of the time... PvP, generally, is not a full-time job, and nor is it always in 0.0. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Lord Artemis	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Edhel scrap quality stuff, should just depend on system sec status if anything. this would probably be the simplest and easiest fix also "true" sec status for 0.0 systems choke points are already clogged enough ___________________________ Aegis Militia Diplomatic Relations Officer C.E.O. of SHOD
Chrais Mrisith	Posted - 2006.05.06 00:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Chrais Mrisith on 06/05/2006 00:13:56 So: 1) you generally accept that high sec high Q agents == pilots in local == lag 2) you want MORE OF THEM? Quote: People can and do deal with it. Thats how you get 300 poeple in a system!!!! It's CCP that can't deal with it So moving them doesn't make it better, but adding more of the problem-causing elements does? Enlighten me here if I'm mistaken, but surely all the new players who subscribe and maybe a few who move will be spread over those new agents, and we'll just be back in the same situation in 3 months time? So: No. For the sake of those of us who don't use them; no. How about, you find a friend, find an agent in a low-sec system with fewer people, and run that one. Set yourself up nicely with bookmarks first, and if either of you gets in trouble, you can help each other out like.
Drew Peacock	Posted - 2006.05.06 00:34:00 - [41] The Imperial Navy has its best agents in low sec. So the carebears just go to the next best agent in safe space. Some people don't want to PvP, or only PvP when it suits them, moving agents to low sec won't make them follow, they will just use a different agent. It don't bother me much where my agents are located, but then again, I never fit expensive faction modules. If I were to use a billion ISK fitted battleship I would not risk it in low sec. It would take a lot of whoring to make good that kind of loss.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.05.06 04:00:00 - [42] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: HippoKing when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak Last i checked, the one in Motsu is the highest quality...? Who says the CN has the best combat agent? Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Tachy	Posted - 2006.05.06 06:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Dark Shikari [...] Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? They're hardcore PvPers that just spend their time mining, complex running and NPCing because there's nothing else to do, right? To bad most of the pilots in 0.0 Alliances suddenly have really important stuff to do at the other end of the cluster when their territory actually is being attacked. This didn't start with XETIC and it didn't end with Red Alliance. Or are you trying to tell us 0.0 Alliances consist of mostly hardcore PvP pilots against better knowledge? Throwing a smokescreen here? This doesn't read like you somehow. A single look at the map tells me you're dead wrong with your number of 30% of the pilots being in 0.0 alliances. They might be in alliances, but certainly not in lowsec or Nulsec. Most pilots do not enjoy PvP. There is nothing that will make them enjoy PvP. There is nothing that will make them move to lowsec. Many pilots just go for the easiest way, even if it isn't the most efficient one. Having three high ranking Caldari (Navy) agents in a single system just spells lag. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Hamshoe	Posted - 2006.05.06 07:12:00 - [44] Edited by: Hamshoe on 06/05/2006 07:13:22 Originally by: Deja Thoris There is no big secret to surviving in lowsec and if a bunch of mission runners cant band together to form a coherent defense strategy then you dont deserve the higher rewards high qual agents offer. "Deserve", as someone once said, has got nothing to do with it. If people want to play one way, that doesn't mean they "deserve" anything at all. There's no moral priciple at stake here, no good or bad. Originally by: Deja Thoris After all, for RP does it make sense that the best agents are in cushy high sec space or would it make more sense if they were on the fringes? Ah yes, one usually finds the real rollers and shakers, the folks with money and influence, living in Outer Bumblefarkestan where the live shooting wars are going on. On certainly wouldn't expect to find them comfortably ensconced in the bosom of empire, surrounded by guards and lackeys. Oh my, no. Originally by: Deja Thoris Just because you tremble at the omg scary! idea it doesnt make it a bad one. Now there's a unique argument: "Oh yeah? You're just chicken!" Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
0August0	Posted - 2006.05.06 07:25:00 - [45] The solution i believe is to increase the size of the galaxy. Double the number of high and low sec systems. Instant relief to overcrowding until the membership also doubles in size. . . . Regards, August Soldier of the Gooch
Marvn Riley	Posted - 2006.05.06 11:43:00 - [46] Edited by: Marvn Riley on 06/05/2006 11:45:57 I'd rather use a Level 4 -20 quality agent in a 0.5 than a Level 4 +20 quality agent in a 0.4. The reason why? I choose to. Its my game to play as I want, and I choose not to even begin to take the risk however likely or unlikely it is that pirates will move into the exact same low sec system as me, and at the exact moment I am in space they pick on me. It doesn't matter to me how many people successfully mission in low sec. Heck, most of my corp are in a lowsec in Gallente space, where there are 3 x l4 q20 agents and 1 x l3 q20 agent. Over the last 9 months since my corp mates moved (literally all but me!!) into said system, it has gone from being pretty much just them to being in system, to regular incursions by pirate corps looking for easy mission runner kills. They didn't find any with my corp as my corpies aren't afraid to fight, and they are good at it too. The point is, I want no part of it. And I am not alone in my opinion no matter how many people like or dislike this. I will not be going low sec. I'd use a worse quality agent in high sec. Or return to mining (Yes this is an alt posting, I'm not going to tell you who my corp is because the aforementioned low sec system is already busy enough )
Plutoinum	Posted - 2006.05.06 12:10:00 - [47] Edited by: Plutoinum on 06/05/2006 12:17:22 Originally by: HippoKing when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak What you say sounds like most people use only security agents, but not command, surveillance etc. ? IF that's the case, then: 'Nubs !!!'
Sirkill	Posted - 2006.05.06 12:42:00 - [48] Why are level 4 agents in high sec space anyway? There are 3 basic low level jobs in eve: Missions Mining NPCing (Yeah I know there are tonnes of others but these 3 are the biggest) Lets take NPCing, best gate and belt npcs are in 0.0, best complexes are in 0.0 if you want to fly realy high as an NPCer you have to go into 0.0 With mining (including POS moon mining) the best reasources are in 0.0, while having a profitable empire buissiness is possible you would still be better off mining rare ore in 0.0. However with Missions, you are better off in high sec space. The minor gains you may get from going into low sec are not worth the additional effort. The mission runners saying that they arn't interested in low sec gameplay are right, why should they be without any incentive?
Marvn Riley	Posted - 2006.05.06 12:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Sirkill The mission runners saying that they arn't interested in low sec gameplay are right, why should they be without any incentive? Who says there aren't incentives? Certain missions are available only in low sec. Mission rewards are better, as are bonuses, and you receive more loyalty points for doing missions. Thats why the rest of my corp moved into low sec, and they rake it in. The reason why mission runners don't go to low sec is because they don't want to.

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