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The 'fix' that won't fix anything at all

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Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 16:37:00 - [1] Quote: In addition to deploying server side fixes to address the situation, we will be moving agents from certain high load solar systems to distribute load. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, we're hard at work trying to prevent this from happening again. So, they're moving the high level agents out of Hageken, and the population of Motsu is up to ~150 and climbing. The problem is there are maybe 2-3 reasonably high quuality level 4 CN agents in the entire universe and most nubs start with mission running for CN (navy=combat, duh!). Sooner or later people get to level 4 agents and end up in the few systems that have the few such agents. The move fixes nothing. It will just create new lag centers in place of the old ones. The only real fix is to seed a few more decent quality lev 4 agents in systems that people are actually willing to go to (i.e., .5+). That will spread the load. And heaven help us all when lev 5 agents are made functional. If there are 10 total in all of secure empire, that's a lot and I can't wait to see the traffic jam that develops in those systems when the time comes. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.05 16:40:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/05/2006 16:40:20 Ive asked Oveur to check out Motsu since it lags so much. I hope he does. --- The Eve Wiki Project
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.05.05 16:43:00 - [3] when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.05 16:44:00 - [4] Originally by: HippoKing when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak Last i checked, the one in Motsu is the highest quality...? --- The Eve Wiki Project
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.05.05 16:45:00 - [5] i love the whine with my cheese before th fixes are even done. YARRR HAHAHA im the happy pirate YARRRR
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2006.05.05 16:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Calio The only real fix is to seed a few more decent quality lev 4 agents in systems that people are actually willing to go to (i.e., .5+). So you can presumably do level 4 missions either solo or with a gang of friends, but won't go into low-sec? Deal with the crowding or accept one of the many, many alternative solutions. Low-sec isn't THAT scary... YOU LOVE THE BLINKING
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.05.05 16:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Berak FalCheran Originally by: Calio The only real fix is to seed a few more decent quality lev 4 agents in systems that people are actually willing to go to (i.e., .5+). So you can presumably do level 4 missions either solo or with a gang of friends, but won't go into low-sec? Deal with the crowding or accept one of the many, many alternative solutions. Low-sec isn't THAT scary... Learn to read. He said people generally, not just him. Besides, if you haven't figured out even yet that most people aren't interested in going into low-sec, there really isn't much hope for you. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.05.05 17:04:00 - [8] Like suggested before: scrap the quality system. It's nothing but trouble anyway. Power to the players !
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2006.05.05 17:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Berak FalCheran Originally by: Calio The only real fix is to seed a few more decent quality lev 4 agents in systems that people are actually willing to go to (i.e., .5+). So you can presumably do level 4 missions either solo or with a gang of friends, but won't go into low-sec? Deal with the crowding or accept one of the many, many alternative solutions. Low-sec isn't THAT scary... Learn to read. He said people generally, not just him. Besides, if you haven't figured out even yet that most people aren't interested in going into low-sec, there really isn't much hope for you. OK. Let me rephrase: So people generally can presumably do level 4 missions either solo or with a gang of friends, but won't go into low-sec? People generally should deal with the crowding or accept one of the many, many alternative solutions. Low-sec isn't THAT scary... --------- Yes, I pretty clearly understand people don't want to go into low-sec. However they still like to make lots of posts along the lines of: "Hey, it's too crowded in my agent system, a problem I know which would be fixed if I went to another agent in low-sec... but anyway, fix it in my high-sec agent system. Kthx." YOU LOVE THE BLINKING
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 17:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Berak FalCheran So people generally can presumably do level 4 missions either solo or with a gang of friends, but won't go into low-sec? People generally should deal with the crowding or accept one of the many, many alternative solutions. Low-sec isn't THAT scary... --------- Yes, I pretty clearly understand people don't want to go into low-sec. However they still like to make lots of posts along the lines of: "Hey, it's too crowded in my agent system, a problem I know which would be fixed if I went to another agent in low-sec... but anyway, fix it in my high-sec agent system. Kthx." You miss the point completely!!!! People can and do deal with it. Thats how you get 300 poeple in a system!!!! It's CCP that can't deal with it "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 17:39:00 - [11] Originally by: HippoKing when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak Yes, I use the Spacelane patrol agents in Ibura, not the CN agents. The point is that nubs looking to start see "navy" and figure combat and go from there. By the time they get to level 4 agents, they're committed to that corp and tend not to change. In any case, the logic having 30 level 1 agents that people use for a week or so before moving on and manybe 4 decent level 4 agents that people use pretty much forever somehow escapes me "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Prestis	Posted - 2006.05.05 18:45:00 - [12] The real fix is to move high-quality agents into low-sec where they belong. THAT will sort agent crowding out. You don't get the best ores in high-sec, or the best ratting, so why the best agents?
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2006.05.05 19:10:00 - [13] move low quality lv 4 agents to 0.5 + systems and medium to high quality lv 4 agents to 0,4 - systems Greetings Grim
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.05 19:19:00 - [14] Yeah, I guess with only like 1/3 of its current players, EVE wont suffer from any kind of crowding anymore. And putting ALL high end PvE content into PvP country will most certainly cause quite the exodus. Which I doubt is in CCPs best interest. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 19:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Yeah, I guess with only like 1/3 of its current players, EVE wont suffer from any kind of crowding anymore. And putting ALL high end PvE content into PvP country will most certainly cause quite the exodus. Which I doubt is in CCPs best interest. Yes, gotta love the PvP'ers who aren't content to have the best of everything (e.g., high Quality lev 4 agents who give twice the rewards of similar agents in secure space), they want to have all the decent content. With friends like that, CCP doesn't need competition from other games to pull people away. They'll just push them away for CCP... and thereby improve it. Remind me to never invest in any businesses these geniuses dream up. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Dukath	Posted - 2006.05.05 19:44:00 - [16] The only solution is to make agent quality dynamic. For each mission done for an agent its quality drops a certain amount. RP wise its easy to explain, there is only so much work to be done, if all the good jobs have been done already only crappy ones remain. Slowly quality for unused agents will rise. This will automatically balance agents around the universe
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.05.05 19:51:00 - [17] What the guy above me said
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.05.05 19:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Calio Originally by: Leandro Salazar Yeah, I guess with only like 1/3 of its current players, EVE wont suffer from any kind of crowding anymore. And putting ALL high end PvE content into PvP country will most certainly cause quite the exodus. Which I doubt is in CCPs best interest. Yes, gotta love the PvP'ers who aren't content to have the best of everything (e.g., high Quality lev 4 agents who give twice the rewards of similar agents in secure space), they want to have all the decent content. With friends like that, CCP doesn't need competition from other games to pull people away. They'll just push them away for CCP... and thereby improve it. Remind me to never invest in any businesses these geniuses dream up. Stop being such a whiner. I do missions in lowsec and have never been ganked. In fact when "pirates" roll in they are on the receiving end. There is no big secret to surviving in lowsec and if a bunch of mission runners cant band together to form a coherent defense strategy then you dont deserve the higher rewards high qual agents offer. After all, for RP does it make sense that the best agents are in cushy high sec space or would it make more sense if they were on the fringes? Just because you tremble at the omg scary! idea it doesnt make it a bad one.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 19:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Yeah, I guess with only like 1/3 of its current players, EVE wont suffer from any kind of crowding anymore. And putting ALL high end PvE content into PvP country will most certainly cause quite the exodus. Which I doubt is in CCPs best interest. EVE is supposed to be a game of risk vs. reward. Then, why are the most rewarding missions in the highest security space? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.05 20:00:00 - [20] The best agents are already in lowsec. Only very few good ones are in highsec. I do not mind it the way it is. Best rewards for more danger, but some decent ones in safe space too. Of course one can be rather safe in lowsec too, but a certain risk always remains, higher in some systems than in others. And for example for faction ship users that risk is often too high. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Syrec	Posted - 2006.05.05 20:06:00 - [21] Are there still lag centers? For a very long time Ourselaert was extremely laggy, it now it isn't. Whatever they did, they fixed it. Jita is now lag free also. These are very high traffic areas.
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 20:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Deja Thoris Stop being such a whiner. Work on your reading comprehension. I do just fine, thank you (I don't do mission for CN) and the only time I have to deal with the laggy systems is when I have to fly in to buy or sell stuff. The point is that CCP's fixes tend to involve moving stuff around (hubs, highways, agents) and that fixes nothing. It just moves the problem. Originally by: Deja Thoris I do missions in lowsec and have never been ganked. In fact when "pirates" roll in they are on the receiving end. Good for you. You're obviously quite proud of yourself on that count. I for one: 1) do not enjoy killing other players 2) Do not enjoy taking their stuff 3) Definitely do not enjoy being ganked while I'm fighting NPC's by someone who gets their rocks off by doing that sort of thing and would run at the first sign of an even fight 4) Do not need or want the adrenaline rush of constantly having to watch my back and local. So do 80% of the mmorpg players by every poll that's ever been taken in the history of mmorpg's. CCP is aware of the need to accomdate people who simply do not want to engage in PvP (nomatter what the benefits) if they want to have a finacially successful game. You'd best get over it. Originally by: Deja Thoris Just because you tremble at the omg scary! idea it doesnt make it a bad one. Yeah. I'm trembling all over. More like can't be bothered dealing with the a$$hole magnet that PvP is. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
MuffinsRevenger	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:06:00 - [23] as stated above, there is a reason that people stayed in highsec :p
SonOTassadar	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:18:00 - [24] Why not just go with lower quality level 4s and train up your social skills to offbalance the low quality? Surely level 4 agents of even low quality aren't that bad. ___________________________
Svetlana Scarlet	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Deja Thoris After all, for RP does it make sense that the best agents are in cushy high sec space or would it make more sense if they were on the fringes? Well, er....yes? After all, the upper echelons of the command structure are going to be close to the central core systems of that empire. Now, whether or not they will have the "best" (meaning, toughest) missions is debatable. Maybe the highest quality agents would be towards the center of the civilized systems, but the highest level agents (at least, kill agents -- courier agents probably would still probably make the most sense to be clustered in the center of the settled worlds) would probably be in lower-security areas where their enemies presumably held more sway. -- CAPT Svetlana Scarlet Chief of Diplomatic Staff Captain, CNS Shield of Larani Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Calio meh, ** it, I'd rather bang my head against a wall then debate with you. Typical carebear whiner (see phrases like "a$$hole", "loser", "getting ganked", "rocks off") next we'll be told people like nasty pvp'rs **ed their beds as children and were felt up as youngsters and need to take it out on other peoples pixels. Stick in lag hell and whine about that. It's one whine or the other so its a no-win situation for CCP.
Edhel	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:53:00 - [27] scrap quality stuff, should just depend on system sec status if anything.
Lily Savage	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:59:00 - [28] Originally by: HippoKing when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak Hello Eratsaka Ogyonin in Irjunin, welcome to uberlag.
Mistress Suffering	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:12:00 - [29] So create some more higher level agents and scatter them around. As Eve's total population goes up, the agents can as well. The more they are scattered, the less incentive there will be to concentrate in one location. People complain validly when the game already shows them the item they would choose to be using (a good agent in a high sec location), but fails to be able to support its use with the hardware provided. It is not the job of players to work around bad load-balancing, it is the job of the provider to build content in a load conscious fashion.
Vendrin	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Calio Good for you. You're obviously quite proud of yourself on that count. I for one: 1) do not enjoy killing other players 2) Do not enjoy taking their stuff 3) Definitely do not enjoy being ganked while I'm fighting NPC's by someone who gets their rocks off by doing that sort of thing and would run at the first sign of an even fight 4) Do not need or want the adrenaline rush of constantly having to watch my back and local. Lol. Man I've been running LV 4 missions out of an 0.3 for about a month now. Never even seen a pirate target me. I don't even watch local since there isn't any risk. I can just insta to the station if there is any problem. PVP isn't that bad even if it occurs, and if someone is being an ******* about, block menu is very handy. _____________________________________ Need help in Caldari Space? Join channel CCDF to give or recieve it.
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Deja Thoris I'd rather bang my head against a wall then debate with you. Go for it!! Maybe it'll improve your reading comprehension Quote: next we'll be told people like nasty pvp'rs **ed their beds as children and were felt up as youngsters and need to take it out on other peoples pixels. Just to refresh your obviously poor memory, this is what I said about PvP (hint: pay attention to the second to last sentence** and try to work out what it means no matter how tough it gets). And the edited addition was added an hour before you posted, so don't tell me you didn't see it "Yeah. I'm trembling all over. More like can't be bothered dealing with the a$$hole magnet that PvP is. (edited: note that I did not say that PvP'ers are, simply that PvP gets more than it's fair share of them, and I prefer to avoid them. And, to be completely fair, it also gets more than it's fair share of the best people in mmorpg's. But the losers kill it for me)" "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Calio "Yeah. I'm trembling all over. More like can't be bothered dealing with the a$$hole magnet that PvP is. (edited: note that I did not say that PvP'ers are, simply that PvP gets more than it's fair share of them, and I prefer to avoid them. And, to be completely fair, it also gets more than it's fair share of the best people in mmorpg's. But the losers kill it for me)" Why is it then that the majority of the "********s" I meet in EVE aren't PvPers? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that the majority of the "********s" I meet in EVE aren't PvPers? Cause there are 4x as many non-PvPers than PvPers. Simple math. You're talking numbers and I'm talking %'s "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Calio Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that the majority of the "********s" I meet in EVE aren't PvPers? Cause there are 4x as many non-PvPers than PvPers. Simple math. You're talking numbers and I'm talking %'s I'd beg to differ. Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Calio	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? You're right. I'm wrong. I was thinking in general (and not EVE-specific) terms. EVE is a PvP centered game and draws an above average number of people who enjoy it. The 80% number is for mmorpg's in general. But the math still holds. There are (corrected) 2x as many non-PvP'ers than PvP'ers. Hence you meet more of them. But in empire you can simply block and forget them. In PvP space, you may be able to block the smack talk, but you still have to deal with them. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Calio Originally by: Dark Shikari Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? You're right. I'm wrong. I was thinking in general (and not EVE-specific) terms. EVE is a PvP centered game and draws an above average number of people who enjoy it. The 80% number is for mmorpg's in general. But the math still holds. There are (corrected) 2x as many non-PvP'ers than PvP'ers. Hence you meet more of them. But in empire you can simply block and forget them. In PvP space, you may be able to block the smack talk, but you still have to deal with them. Actually, you're probably right. Half the alliance membership is probably alts [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Xanthia Di'Makir	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Calio I for one: 1) do not enjoy killing other players 2) Do not enjoy taking their stuff 3) Definitely do not enjoy being ganked while I'm fighting NPC's by someone who gets their rocks off by doing that sort of thing and would run at the first sign of an even fight 4) Do not need or want the adrenaline rush of constantly having to watch my back and local. So do 80% of the mmorpg players by every poll that's ever been taken in the history of mmorpg's. CCP is aware of the need to accomdate people who simply do not want to engage in PvP (nomatter what the benefits) if they want to have a finacially successful game. You'd best get over it. Originally by: Deja Thoris meh, ** it, I'd rather bang my head against a wall then debate with you. Typical carebear whiner (see phrases like "a$$hole", "loser", "getting ganked", "rocks off") next we'll be told people like nasty pvp'rs **ed their beds as children and were felt up as youngsters and need to take it out on other peoples pixels. Stick in lag hell and whine about that. It's one whine or the other so its a no-win situation for CCP. Deja. You really need to take off your rose colored glasses and face up to the fact that Calio is bang on the money. If he's part of a small carebear minority, please explain the player distribution in EVE as shown here. kkthx.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:38:00 - [38] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/05/2006 23:38:13 Originally by: Xanthia Di'Makir Originally by: Calio I for one: 1) do not enjoy killing other players 2) Do not enjoy taking their stuff 3) Definitely do not enjoy being ganked while I'm fighting NPC's by someone who gets their rocks off by doing that sort of thing and would run at the first sign of an even fight 4) Do not need or want the adrenaline rush of constantly having to watch my back and local. So do 80% of the mmorpg players by every poll that's ever been taken in the history of mmorpg's. CCP is aware of the need to accomdate people who simply do not want to engage in PvP (nomatter what the benefits) if they want to have a finacially successful game. You'd best get over it. Originally by: Deja Thoris meh, ** it, I'd rather bang my head against a wall then debate with you. Typical carebear whiner (see phrases like "a$$hole", "loser", "getting ganked", "rocks off") next we'll be told people like nasty pvp'rs *ed their beds as children and were felt up as youngsters and need to take it out on other peoples pixels. Stick in lag hell and whine about that. It's one whine or the other so its a no-win situation for CCP. Deja. You really need to take off your rose colored glasses and face up to the fact that Calio is bang on the money. If he's part of a small carebear minority, please explain the player distribution in EVE as shown here. kkthx. 1. Map in 0.0 is bugged to heck. I've seen it report 3 people in space when there were 100 or more. 2. The vast majority of PvPers* are in empire most of the time... PvP, generally, is not a full-time job, and nor is it always in 0.0. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Lord Artemis	Posted - 2006.05.05 23:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Edhel scrap quality stuff, should just depend on system sec status if anything. this would probably be the simplest and easiest fix also "true" sec status for 0.0 systems choke points are already clogged enough ___________________________ Aegis Militia Diplomatic Relations Officer C.E.O. of SHOD
Chrais Mrisith	Posted - 2006.05.06 00:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Chrais Mrisith on 06/05/2006 00:13:56 So: 1) you generally accept that high sec high Q agents == pilots in local == lag 2) you want MORE OF THEM? Quote: People can and do deal with it. Thats how you get 300 poeple in a system!!!! It's CCP that can't deal with it So moving them doesn't make it better, but adding more of the problem-causing elements does? Enlighten me here if I'm mistaken, but surely all the new players who subscribe and maybe a few who move will be spread over those new agents, and we'll just be back in the same situation in 3 months time? So: No. For the sake of those of us who don't use them; no. How about, you find a friend, find an agent in a low-sec system with fewer people, and run that one. Set yourself up nicely with bookmarks first, and if either of you gets in trouble, you can help each other out like.
Drew Peacock	Posted - 2006.05.06 00:34:00 - [41] The Imperial Navy has its best agents in low sec. So the carebears just go to the next best agent in safe space. Some people don't want to PvP, or only PvP when it suits them, moving agents to low sec won't make them follow, they will just use a different agent. It don't bother me much where my agents are located, but then again, I never fit expensive faction modules. If I were to use a billion ISK fitted battleship I would not risk it in low sec. It would take a lot of whoring to make good that kind of loss.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.05.06 04:00:00 - [42] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: HippoKing when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak Last i checked, the one in Motsu is the highest quality...? Who says the CN has the best combat agent? Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Tachy	Posted - 2006.05.06 06:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Dark Shikari [...] Why is it then that 1/3 of the entire playerbase is part of a 0.0 alliance? They're hardcore PvPers that just spend their time mining, complex running and NPCing because there's nothing else to do, right? To bad most of the pilots in 0.0 Alliances suddenly have really important stuff to do at the other end of the cluster when their territory actually is being attacked. This didn't start with XETIC and it didn't end with Red Alliance. Or are you trying to tell us 0.0 Alliances consist of mostly hardcore PvP pilots against better knowledge? Throwing a smokescreen here? This doesn't read like you somehow. A single look at the map tells me you're dead wrong with your number of 30% of the pilots being in 0.0 alliances. They might be in alliances, but certainly not in lowsec or Nulsec. Most pilots do not enjoy PvP. There is nothing that will make them enjoy PvP. There is nothing that will make them move to lowsec. Many pilots just go for the easiest way, even if it isn't the most efficient one. Having three high ranking Caldari (Navy) agents in a single system just spells lag. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Hamshoe	Posted - 2006.05.06 07:12:00 - [44] Edited by: Hamshoe on 06/05/2006 07:13:22 Originally by: Deja Thoris There is no big secret to surviving in lowsec and if a bunch of mission runners cant band together to form a coherent defense strategy then you dont deserve the higher rewards high qual agents offer. "Deserve", as someone once said, has got nothing to do with it. If people want to play one way, that doesn't mean they "deserve" anything at all. There's no moral priciple at stake here, no good or bad. Originally by: Deja Thoris After all, for RP does it make sense that the best agents are in cushy high sec space or would it make more sense if they were on the fringes? Ah yes, one usually finds the real rollers and shakers, the folks with money and influence, living in Outer Bumblefarkestan where the live shooting wars are going on. On certainly wouldn't expect to find them comfortably ensconced in the bosom of empire, surrounded by guards and lackeys. Oh my, no. Originally by: Deja Thoris Just because you tremble at the omg scary! idea it doesnt make it a bad one. Now there's a unique argument: "Oh yeah? You're just chicken!" Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
0August0	Posted - 2006.05.06 07:25:00 - [45] The solution i believe is to increase the size of the galaxy. Double the number of high and low sec systems. Instant relief to overcrowding until the membership also doubles in size. . . . Regards, August Soldier of the Gooch
Marvn Riley	Posted - 2006.05.06 11:43:00 - [46] Edited by: Marvn Riley on 06/05/2006 11:45:57 I'd rather use a Level 4 -20 quality agent in a 0.5 than a Level 4 +20 quality agent in a 0.4. The reason why? I choose to. Its my game to play as I want, and I choose not to even begin to take the risk however likely or unlikely it is that pirates will move into the exact same low sec system as me, and at the exact moment I am in space they pick on me. It doesn't matter to me how many people successfully mission in low sec. Heck, most of my corp are in a lowsec in Gallente space, where there are 3 x l4 q20 agents and 1 x l3 q20 agent. Over the last 9 months since my corp mates moved (literally all but me!!) into said system, it has gone from being pretty much just them to being in system, to regular incursions by pirate corps looking for easy mission runner kills. They didn't find any with my corp as my corpies aren't afraid to fight, and they are good at it too. The point is, I want no part of it. And I am not alone in my opinion no matter how many people like or dislike this. I will not be going low sec. I'd use a worse quality agent in high sec. Or return to mining (Yes this is an alt posting, I'm not going to tell you who my corp is because the aforementioned low sec system is already busy enough )
Plutoinum	Posted - 2006.05.06 12:10:00 - [47] Edited by: Plutoinum on 06/05/2006 12:17:22 Originally by: HippoKing when i wanted a level 4 agent, i found the best combat one in caldari high sec, and decided to use him. he isn't in motsu, hageken or anywhere else that gets whined about. The system never seems to break 40 people at peak What you say sounds like most people use only security agents, but not command, surveillance etc. ? IF that's the case, then: 'Nubs !!!'
Sirkill	Posted - 2006.05.06 12:42:00 - [48] Why are level 4 agents in high sec space anyway? There are 3 basic low level jobs in eve: Missions Mining NPCing (Yeah I know there are tonnes of others but these 3 are the biggest) Lets take NPCing, best gate and belt npcs are in 0.0, best complexes are in 0.0 if you want to fly realy high as an NPCer you have to go into 0.0 With mining (including POS moon mining) the best reasources are in 0.0, while having a profitable empire buissiness is possible you would still be better off mining rare ore in 0.0. However with Missions, you are better off in high sec space. The minor gains you may get from going into low sec are not worth the additional effort. The mission runners saying that they arn't interested in low sec gameplay are right, why should they be without any incentive?
Marvn Riley	Posted - 2006.05.06 12:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Sirkill The mission runners saying that they arn't interested in low sec gameplay are right, why should they be without any incentive? Who says there aren't incentives? Certain missions are available only in low sec. Mission rewards are better, as are bonuses, and you receive more loyalty points for doing missions. Thats why the rest of my corp moved into low sec, and they rake it in. The reason why mission runners don't go to low sec is because they don't want to.

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