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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.02 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Others have said it, but it bears repeating: Flying a hulk is still pointless. Without the ability to carry more crystals, any so-called advantage it may have on paper when it comes to ore vs. time is lost flying back and forth to your secure can, POS, station, yurt, or whatever is holding your lenses. The fitting is still gimped, and the tank is laughable. Increasing the laser range is a buff? Puh-leeze. Give it a large ammo bay for lenses and drop the cargo to something like 20m3 (just enough for spare drones or module swaps) so it's obvious that this is a mining ship, and any other use deserves an ALOD. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.02 17:52:00 -
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Jagoff Haverford wrote:Mining has become so irrelevant to most of us that we simply can't be bothered to comment. That, and those of us who do mine (even for the sedative effect after putting the little one to bed for the third time in 4 hours) are so jaded by past experience that most have just given up. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.05 08:37:00 -
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Galphii wrote:Ideally, asteroids should take practically no time at all to get a lock on, but a major difference between mining ships and proper combat ships should be a terrible locking time vs other ships. I wouldn't mind seeing the sensor res greatly nerfed on mining ships and industrials across the board, but accompanied by a massive bloom in asteroid signatures. Definitely agree that asteroids should have a massive sig bloom, but you don't want to nerf a barge's res too much. Cruiser-level (rather than the current frigate-level) ought to be sufficient, as you need to tell your drones what's scratching the paint before your hull tanking skills kick in. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.07 20:47:00 -
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Patrick Yaa wrote: The Hulk is (supposed to be) the king of the yield. With the new changes he will burn through the crystals even faster and therefore needs to have more crystals at his convenience. On the other hand : The Hulk is a fleet-ship. It should be flown in a fleet for support and protection. In Hi-Sec that's no problem, with an Orca in the belt and bam--> Crystal support. In Null you can have people drop a can beside your ship, if you don't want an Orca with you in the belt. Though I would also vote for a crystal bay, since I'm a lazy ass. Why do you say the hulk is a fleet ship? If I were a Goon carebear, mining my little bee heart out in RG9-7U, why the bloody hell should I have to fly in a fleet? I'm a Goon, and RG9 is about as far away as one can possibly be from anything even remotely non-blue (not counting roaming fleets from wormholes). Sure, having an Orca or Rorqual (or even someone in a linked-up battle cruiser or command ship) booster would be helpful, but if I'm the so-called king of yield then my ship should be entirely capable of just sitting there and turning a belt of rocks into massive amounts of ready-to-melt ore. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for having a small ore bay, because the job of the hulk is not to *move* those minerals to the refinery, but to *get them ready* for one. However, anything that takes away from being able to mix and match crystals on an ad-hoc basis reduces the ability to function as the "king of yield" and is therefore antithetical to the role designated. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
89
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Posted - 2014.04.09 03:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:The hulk needs it's ore bay increased by 500m3 to be at all viable as an ice mining vessel. There are literally no hulks in ice belts because of this. You can increase the yield all you want; no one wants to jetcan, Orca transfer, or dock up every 2 cycles. I didn't care about having to dump to a can every other cycle when I last lived in deep null, but then again, this was pre-nerf when I could slap MLU2's in the lows and rig for cargo, ending up with just enough space for two full cycles plus a nearly full compliment of crystals (I usually left out plagio and spod, mostly because I hate plagio, and spod takes a fleet all its own). |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
89
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:30:00 -
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Markku Laaksonen wrote:Good fellows, it appears to be that perhaps this update draws a bit less attention than say the Pirate Faction Cruiser update. What did you expect? This is a mining thread, not a yarr thread. Nobody cares about us miners until the price of $MINERAL_X shoots through the roof and the cost of their ships goes up in response. At which point CCP lays off the bots until things settle down and we're back in the same spot we started in. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:52:00 -
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baltec1 wrote:Atum wrote:Markku Laaksonen wrote:Good fellows, it appears to be that perhaps this update draws a bit less attention than say the Pirate Faction Cruiser update. What did you expect? This is a mining thread, not a yarr thread. Nobody cares about us miners until the price of $MINERAL_X shoots through the roof and the cost of their ships goes up in response. At which point CCP lays off the bots until things settle down and we're back in the same spot we started in. Having all the sperg posters in the other threads is a good thing. We might get the barge balance right this time. I realize you're a Goon, but you're taking this to a whole new level of delusional |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 16:35:00 -
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Nikk Narrel wrote:The hulk is notably less tanked, because it is NOT intended to be solo to the same degree a mack or skiff would be. Could someone please point out to me where and why the "Hulks are not intended to be solo / Hulks are only meant for fleets" meme got started? |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 16:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well, that at least explains why the meme is there, though I certainly don't agree with 33% of it. Making the 'kings of yield' reliant on someone else to bring them a key component (crystals) to maintain that yield is just plain wrong. Making them rely on someone else to provide protection or hauling capacity, though, is entirely reasonable. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Meme?
You had not noticed that they had less hold capacity, requiring them to either jet can or use haulers more often? Perhaps the less capable tank escaped your notice, which would suggest they expected more protection from outside sources.
I believe the details speak for themselves. Having flown barges (and then exhumers) almost from the day they were released, I'm well aware of their strengths and limitations. I was jet-can mining out of my hulk for years, and saw absolutely nothing wrong with making my command ship alt swap out for an Iteron every other hour to come pick up the ore. That was the trade-off in the day... uber yield with barely enough cargo for two cycles, *AFTER* loading up a full compliment of crystals. Following the first so-called "balance" (which I can't remember many people asking for, but that's a different story), the original T2 specialties were replaced with uber tank, uber hold, and barely-better yield with practically no space for spare lenses. Give the hulk enough cargo (or an ammo bay) to carry a full set of crystals and an ore bay that'll barely accommodate two full cycles of mining, and I'll shut up, because it'll then be able to function as an asteroid's worst nightmare.
Forcing hulk pilots to have someone else constantly feeding them crystals is just plain dumb. When's the last time you asked a maelstrom pilot to rely on someone flying a wreath to feed them shells in the middle of a fleet fight? Oh, what's that? You haven't? Sorry for pointing out such an incredibly flawed and ASININE suggestion. Of course a battleship pilot would bring enough ammo, of multiple types, for a fleet fight. They'd be laughed out of comms (after the FC personally podded them) if they didn't. So why is CCP forcing hulk pilots to do this, when the majority of miners I know prefer to either work alone, or in groups no larger than three or four others? The last "all hands" corp mining op I remember even being called was back in 2004, when I was barely more than an ENB refugee in high sec. That's how laughable the idea is. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:The hulk is yield king in order to promote group play. I believe it is really that simple.
Darkblad wrote:With CCP directly stating that their opinion about Covetor/Hulk is that they do want them to be dependant on support suggests this.
Ok, but then why is CCP forcing fleet activity onto hulk pilots, when no other class is forced to operate in this way to perform its primary function? A hauler needs nobody else to haul, a covops needs nobody else to probe, and a battleship needs nobody else to carry ammo. For that matter, you can even say cap ships don't need someone else to travel, because beacons at POS towers remove the need for a cyno ship. Why is the hulk being singled out and forced to rely on others to perform its main function in this way? |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 20:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:An in case your point with "no other class" is not limited to mining vessels: there's other ships that are kind of useless for solo activities. Some of them are a bit larger (around 15km), but that doesn't matter. Alright, let's use titans. What's the primary function of a titan? Depending on the circumstances, it's either to DD an enemy target, or to bridge friendlies someplace sorta far away. Is another person absolutely required for either of those functions to work? No. In the first case, the titan does not require someone else to bring it DD fuel every time it chooses a new victim, assist in targeting or tackling that victim, or much of anything else. In the second case, a cyno might be helpful in getting the fleet to where it wants to be, but you could just as well bridge to a POS beacon, and that doesn't require assistance. Sure, you can make the argument that opening a bridge without a subcap fleet ready to use it is stupid, but it can be done, and that shoots down the idea of "Player 2 required."
Nikk Narrel wrote:BLOPs.
Trying to use one of these solo, and you will experience new levels of "frustration". Really, anything with a jump drive, is so strongly recommended for fleet use that few question it at all.
Command ships, while certainly possible to use solo, tend to be much less effective boosting other ships, when there are no other ships.
The Orca and Rorqual. Too much already said about them elsewhere.
Truly, many ships have only partial functionality without others to enhance or support them. Alright, BLOPS. I fly buzzards, and they're my preferred probe/scout when I'm a fleet scout or go looking for hacking-type sites. Do I absolutely have to have someone else to perform either of those functions? No. Do I have to have someone else in order to open a covert cyno? No (though again, opening a cyno nobody's going to use would be pretty lame). Let's take a couple steps up and consider the widow. What's its primary purpose? Blowing other people to smithereens. Does it require someone else's assistance to do so? No. Sure, you could make the argument that it's gimped up without being able to BLOPS-bridge, but having to slowboat through gates does not in any way affect its fighting ability, only the odds of it successfully sneaking up on someone.
So again, tell me why the hulk should be forced to rely on outside assistance to keep its yield up. It has no tank, but that's not its job. It has no cargo, but that's not its job. Its job is to be the best at turning asteroids into ore, except having to either rely on outside assistance in ways other ships do not, or flying back and forth to a can/yurt/pos/station/whatever to reload, knocks it off that throne. A skiff is not reliant on others to protect it (at least in high sec), and you can AFK in a mac for hours, but a hulk requires babysitting. Two cycles of space, three beams to juggle, and almost no spare crystal capacity. As if mining wasn't painful enough already, why would someone willingly subject themselves to the headache when they can give up just a little bit of yield (208m3/min), have a very chill/zen/hypnotizing time instead, then make up that difference in the time spent shuttling back and forth to the crystal shop? |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 21:00:00 -
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Nikk Narrel wrote:Atum wrote:So again, tell me why the hulk should be forced to rely on outside assistance to keep its yield up.? Based on the logic used to dismiss the points being compared to other ships, there is no current or proposed reason for it not to be used solo. Sure, it cannot carry ore as well as a mack, but that is not everything. Perhaps it fights less capably than the proposed skiff too, but if you intend to be evasive and cautious, that is not an overwhelming detail either. In short, if we are to be consistent with the thinking pattern here, the hulk has no issue, and should be used / enjoyed fully. Except that in order to get max yield, you have to rely on someone to bring you crystals. You're ignoring my central argument that the other mining ships (and other ships in general) can get along with their core functions just fine solo, but the cov/hulk can't. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
89
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Posted - 2014.04.10 21:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:And note how your complaints about the hulk tend to mirror the reality of the widow. It can be used outside of it's role as a Covert fleet support vessel, but it's not the best use of a pilot in a line fighting or solo role. Much like the hulk can be used in conjunction with can mining or frequent drops, but isn't really the best use for it. In both cases there are better tools for the job of the soloist. That's not a bad thing. Go back up through my previous posts, and you'll see that I'm not advocating for a solo hulk, but rather a more specialized one. I'm completely in agreement with making them rely upon others for getting the results of their mining out of the belts, because moving stuff (ore) from point A to point B is another ship's job (hauler, orca, freighter). My problem is that other ships (except the Noctis, but that's a special snowflake) can take everything they need to perform their core function with them, and stay out in the field doing their thing for extended periods of time. Because of the gimped up cargo bay, cov/hulk pilots can't. They'll either burn through the crystals they have and go back to change (which takes them out of the field, letting the mack catch up), or they'll just sit where they are and accept reduced yield by having mismatched crystals (which negates the whole point of calling them yield kings). |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 21:15:00 -
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Nikk Narrel wrote:Oh, that, make the crystals either smaller, or give the exhumers a hold specific to them which has enough space.
I might be missing a detail here, but I see no reason for the crystals to be an issue. Then it would seem we are in agreement. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 21:51:00 -
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Tyberius Franklin wrote:The hulks core function is extracting ore, which can be accomplished without help. Storing it and having a full complement of all crystals is the only issue, but in that respect maybe I should ask for a domi with the capacity for a full set of each type of sentry. The hulk will pull the most with proper support and operate indefinitely with that support. With that support it doesn't need to have the crystals for every ore in it's hold, haulers can bring changes for different types or replacements, or the orca can have them on demand. The extended ranges actually help with allowing positioning around a central support vessel. The only thing the ships may need is a greater difference in yield from the others. You're almost on my page, but not quite... the hulk's core function is to be the absolute best at extracting ore, but right now it can't do that without outside help. Whatever gains it has on paper are lost because while it's busy going back to base for a crystal swap, the other ships stay in the field. The only time this isn't a concern is when attacking "The Spod." That sucker's so big it can eat multiple crystals and still just shrug you off like a mosquito. But regardless, I just don't see more than a handful of hulks huddling around a central ship. Not only do you have to deal with "Who's crystal is this, no, that's yours, this is mine, but i swear i let you borrow five hemo last week," but with the inty changes coming down the pipe, doing so is just asking for trouble. Buffing yield would be nice, but it still doesn't really address the issue of crystals. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.10 23:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:If only the orca supporting your fleet could being crystals. Then all your problems would be solved...
Jagoff Haverford wrote:You may start an op with an undamaged crystal but finish just an hour or so later with somebody else's 98% damaged one. No, they wouldn't, and Jagoff tells you exactly why four posts up. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.11 01:07:00 -
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Frostys Virpio wrote:Atum wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:If only the orca supporting your fleet could being crystals. Then all your problems would be solved... Jagoff Haverford wrote:You may start an op with an undamaged crystal but finish just an hour or so later with somebody else's 98% damaged one. No, they wouldn't, and Jagoff tells you exactly why four posts up. Then specialise each miner. Miner 1 gets all the ore X, miner 2 the Y, miner 3 the Z, ... Bigger fleet could put different ratio of ship on different ore depending on how much there is on the field. At that point, you need less total set of crystals. And you'll have the miner "specialized" in veld whining endlessly that (s)he got shafted because someone else got to mine ark. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.11 12:20:00 -
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Jagoff Haverford wrote:Atum wrote: Then specialise each miner. Miner 1 gets all the ore X, miner 2 the Y, miner 3 the Z, ... Bigger fleet could put different ratio of ship on different ore depending on how much there is on the field. At that point, you need less total set of crystals.
It's not like we haven't tried all of these ideas over the last 2 years, you know. If the crystal limit was something that worked to promote large fleets outside of high sec, you would see large fleets of hulks outside of high sec. The only time I have seen them used in null is by large single-player IsBoxer fleets.. That wasn't me... that was Frostys.
Jagoff Haverford wrote:Yes, yes -- I'm sure there are exceptions. I'm sure there are those who will say, "I'm using my Hulk just fine in deep null, HTFU!". I'm sure that your best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl whose corp runs Hulk fleets every night in their wormhole. There's a corp that runs large mining ops? Do they pay? Actually, deep null is about the only place I'd expect to see Cov/Hulks in any great number... oceans of blue surrounding and plenty of intel channels.
\o/
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I'm not sure why the Hulk and Covetor need such a powerful defensive bonus. Their entire design is that they are the glass cannons of mining. I'm guessing the thought ran something along the lines of "Proc/Skiff can super tank, Ret/Mack can tank well enough as well, so we'll give Cov/Hulk the Monty Python defense... RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!! |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.11 12:47:00 -
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Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Atum wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I'm not sure why the Hulk and Covetor need such a powerful defensive bonus. Their entire design is that they are the glass cannons of mining. I'm guessing the thought ran something along the lines of "Proc/Skiff can super tank, Ret/Mack can tank well enough as well, so we'll give Cov/Hulk the Monty Python defense... RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!! Their defence should be in the form of vigilance before hostiles are on grid with you. It is... but when your align time is measured in weeks (well, ok, just shy of 25s base), every little bit helps. That, and intys are getting a huge buff with the warp mechanic changes, so while it used to be that beginning the align/warp process when someone showed up in local was enough, now there's a fair shot you'll have to start it while the hostile is still a jump or two away, just to be sure. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.11 13:42:00 -
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Guth'Alak wrote:give exhumers a slot for cov ops cloak so miners feel more encouraged to leave high sec and use of those empty asteroid fields in low and null sec. CovOps cloak? No. *Maybe* just a general utility high, but cloaky warping barges? Please |
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Posted - 2014.04.11 14:25:00 -
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Harvey James wrote:also look at making harvester mining drones worth using 200mil a pop is crazy.. They're collector's items, hence the cost. Sorta like Anaconda/Asp/Cobra/Python mines... relics from a time long ago |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fozzie, when should we expect the revised stats to hit Sisi? Playing on TQ these days is crawling-little-one limited, but the 15-20 minute breathers are great for testing/breaking stuff. |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:41:00 -
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Harvey James wrote:how about reducing the mass on the hulk and coveter ? is 30mil mass really necessary? .. surely the RET/MAC would be the biggest and heaviest with their massive ore holds .. Well, mass was just reduced to 30M, but you do bring up an interesting question... does the mass of what's in your cargohold affect ship maneuverability? Right now, I'm guessing not, but that is something CCP ought to look into long-term. |
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:32:00 -
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Dave Stark wrote:the gap between the mack and hulk was the issue. it was too narrow, that has now been addressed. Well, that and the crystals (which has also been addressed). Hulks look like they'll again reward those who stay at the keyboard and micromanage, which is right and proper.
An interesting philosophical discussion would be whether the ProcSkiff or the RetMack should have the higher yield... personally I think they should be roughly the same, since the PS gives up m3/min for tank, while the RM gives it up for the ability to be afk for long periods of time. |
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Posted - 2014.04.11 18:19:00 -
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Kellaen wrote:Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual? Probably, but I don't think it'll happen since that would completely ruin the reason for the Rorq's existence. Better to buff the Orca in other ways (freighter-sized ore hold w/ barge-level agility, perhaps?) |
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Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:10:00 -
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Kellaen wrote:Considering the compression ability is already being mirrored via a POS array with the summer expansion, I don't see a problem. The Rorqual is not going to become useless overnight if for nothing else than it still has a much larger bonus to mining foreman links while deployed than an Orca (1.5x vs 1.15x).
My suggestion was more along the lines that some people have concerns with restricting the new compression mechanic solely to rorquals or pos modules, which excludes those newer to the industrial side of eve. Instead of it staying as so, or potentially becoming a default station service, give the Orca that ability. That's the problem... The Rorq is already losing its uniqueness because of POS compression, and if Orcas get it added as well, then what's the point of using the Rorq beyond off-grid foreman boost and jump drive? I haven't seen anything that says new players won't be able to use the POS mods, that'll more likely be up to individual corps and how they allocate roles.
Kellaen wrote:Why does it have an ore bay, ship maintenance and corp hanger array then? Because CCP realized that nobody risks Rorqs in belts, and came up with a half-baked idea for a non-capital industrial command ship. |
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:36:00 -
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Potions Master wrote:The Rorqual has these bays too, and if I remember correctly, the Orca came first, didn't it? The fleet hangar is there for miners to drop their ore directly into the Rorqual/Orca bypassing can mechanics (and ore theft) while the Orca's laser range ganglink makes it easier for the fleet to sit by it while still being able to reach the rocks. ... Also, any thoughts on adding a tech 2 version of the Venture? Maybe trading it's +2 warp core strength for covops ability and a little more ore/gas hold (5.5k?) (Can call it the 'Ninja' class :P) Nope, Rorq came first. There's even a bit in the Orca's description about how it's an adaptation of tech originally developed for the Rorq.
The T2 Venture is an interesting thought, but let's get barges/exhumers right first. |
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Posted - 2014.04.11 23:40:00 -
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Potions Master wrote:Looking at the Orca's description, I wonder what Deep Core Mining has been working on since then... :) Probably trying to figure out how to mine mercoxit without spawning enviro damage ever since the skiff lost its role bonus. |
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Posted - 2014.04.12 21:32:00 -
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FT Diomedes wrote:in other words, you have turned off your mining laser and are now cloaked and totally invisible until I leave local. Yeah, that's a stupid ******* idea. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but this is exactly the point the anti-afk cloaking brigade has been making ever since afk cloaking to disrupt mining became a thing. |
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Posted - 2014.04.13 14:20:00 -
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Dorian Wylde wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Atum wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I'm not sure why the Hulk and Covetor need such a powerful defensive bonus. Their entire design is that they are the glass cannons of mining. I'm guessing the thought ran something along the lines of "Proc/Skiff can super tank, Ret/Mack can tank well enough as well, so we'll give Cov/Hulk the Monty Python defense... RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!! Their defence should be in the form of vigilance before hostiles are on grid with you. That should be the defense for any mining fleet. The defenses on the skiff aren't for players outside of hi sec. You tank a skiff to survive null sec rats. No amount of buffer is going to save you in low or null against players. Giving the hulk an agility bonus makes it easier for them to escape rats, that's all. If reds are getting to you while you're still in the belt, you're still going to die, no matter how fast you align. Gah... try to inject a little levity, and everyone takes me so serious. Y'all deserve to die to the Killer Rabbit of Caer Bannog! |
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Posted - 2014.04.13 16:34:00 -
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Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Still waiting for ice mining lasers so I can ninja-mine Dark Glitter in a cloaky Venture, rather than needing my Procurer that doesn't even have a spare slot to put a cloak in. That sounds kinda fun, though the entire ice system would need revamped given ice cubes come in groups of one, and have a huge volume :( |
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Posted - 2014.04.13 20:57:00 -
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Nikk Narrel wrote:Anti-social and lazy, quite possibly, defines a small percentage of mining players. These often also can be defined as not mining by choice, but as a choice made between what they perceived as real obstacles to how they really wanted to play. (They needed ISK to do something else, frequently PvP which does not generate the ISK)
Let's define mining more clearly as a play choice, not an obstacle players need to deal with or overcome. Mostly agreed... the miners I know (myself included) have made mining their primary play choice, but are in no way anti-social or lazy. In fact, most of them have been the chattiest and (usually) silliest people in the corp/alliance chat or TS. Of course, it's even more hilarious when those who aren't typically PVP/Fleet types are thrust into the role of scout, and suddenly the dude who's usually baked starts to panic as he calls out enemy fleet comps in a latin accent on english comms, the russian FC (why we had one that day, hell if I know) can't make heads or tails of it and starts issuing contradicting orders that the rest of us decide to ignore, which gets him killed and our enemy whelped. Go fig. |
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:07:00 -
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Darkblad wrote:Not permanently cycling the Survey Scanner and deactivating the CCC Rig drains that Hulk's after approx. 3minutes, today CCC Rig active and you're stable at 39%. Except in the case of veld (and maybe scord), why would you be constantly running your SS anyways? It's not as if the rocks melt *that* fast. Snapshots every 4-5 cycles have always been sufficient for me on low-ends, and maybe every 10 on higher. |
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Posted - 2014.04.14 22:13:00 -
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Sintiar Loffwagea wrote:CCP Fozzie . did u forget something like mining crystals . u that about rebalance skill with reduction cycle time that make mining crystals crack faster and it's will make miner that flying Covetor and Hulk tearing with this problem . anyways it's should make crystal more life cycle . It'd be nice for a durability boost, but we're not actually (near as I can tell, anyways) losing any potential m3 from the change... the beams (and thus, crystals) will cycle faster, yes, but we'll be bringing more ore at a faster rate, so it's probably a wash.
Sintiar Loffwagea wrote:Covetor and Hulk should have more ore cargo that will make it's popular . No. We've already got two cycles worth of ore hold, that's good enough for these ships. They're supposed to depend on something else (my buffed Orca, maybe? ) to get the ore to the processing point. |
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Posted - 2014.04.14 23:54:00 -
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Aerie Evingod wrote:Atum wrote:Sintiar Loffwagea wrote:CCP Fozzie . did u forget something like mining crystals . u that about rebalance skill with reduction cycle time that make mining crystals crack faster and it's will make miner that flying Covetor and Hulk tearing with this problem . anyways it's should make crystal more life cycle . It'd be nice for a durability boost, but we're not actually (near as I can tell, anyways) losing any potential m3 from the change... the beams (and thus, crystals) will cycle faster, yes, but we'll be bringing more ore at a faster rate, so it's probably a wash. Lower yield but faster cycle time means that yield per unit of time is the same, but yield per crystal is down. Good point... not sure I've ever burned out a crystal except when doing marathon sessions or actually trying to. More often I would end up with a bunch of 75-90% lenses and just melt them rather than fussing with carrying them around long enough to crack. Of course, that was post-balance, when carrying around extras was extra painful. With this size reduction, I may start using them to death again. It'd be nice to know exactly how the volatility equation actually works... I've had "cheap import" glass that didn't last a day, and "can't break it with a sledgehammer" glass that seemed to last a week. |
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:51:00 -
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Veshta Yoshida wrote:Since the pleas for making it worth a damn have been drowned in the flood of saliva over the shiny new turd that is 'revised' mining, I have a suggestion:
Add a crystal based overview script so that if one loads VELDSPAR! crystals, all other roid types are automatically unticked (one can have a mining preset to add them back). Seems unnecessary to have to either do it manually or have an OV preset for each type.
Just a small user-centric carrot to facilitate crystal use. What's a miner doing in PIE??!? |
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Posted - 2014.04.16 22:37:00 -
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Steve Ronuken wrote:This is assuming that the Hulk is supposed to be used by the Solo miner. It's not. The Mack is.
Bear in mind, for the non-solo miner, there's a unproductive person involved, shuttling things around. You'll need three miners in hulks to make up for that person not being in a mack. (not paying attention to Orca boosts.) Not entirely true... back in the deep dark days (actually, only about a year and a half ago, before my little one hatched) I would often mine solo in deep null with a hulk, while my alt flew a BC with a harvester optimization link and provided rat cover. Every two hours or so, I'd switch the alt to an iteron v to haul back to tower/station, then go back to the BC. Similar story when I lived in a class 3... BC for protection (and a finger busily on d-scan), then flipping to a hauler as needed. |
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Posted - 2014.04.18 04:04:00 -
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Desert Ice78 wrote:2.) A tool tip when hovering the pointer over the strip miner icon telling you exactly how many units have been mined, to be used in conjunction with a survey scanner. I like to try to shut off my strips when they would be otherwise wasting a portion of a cycle, but there is still alot of guess work involved. The increased efficency would also promote non-afk game play? I (mostly) like this idea, but instead of a bubble telling you how much has been pulled out, using the SS results in bubbles appearing on the rocks with quantity remaining, rather than presenting the info in a table. |
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Posted - 2014.04.18 04:06:00 -
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Steve Ronuken wrote:Atum wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:This is assuming that the Hulk is supposed to be used by the Solo miner. It's not. The Mack is.
Bear in mind, for the non-solo miner, there's a unproductive person involved, shuttling things around. You'll need three miners in hulks to make up for that person not being in a mack. (not paying attention to Orca boosts.) Not entirely true... back in the deep dark days (actually, only about a year and a half ago, before my little one hatched) I would often mine solo in deep null with a hulk, while my alt flew a BC with a harvester optimization link and provided rat cover. Every two hours or so, I'd switch the alt to an iteron v to haul back to tower/station, then go back to the BC. Similar story when I lived in a class 3... BC for protection (and a finger busily on d-scan), then flipping to a hauler as needed. 'mine solo' 'alt' We have different definitions of solo. Fair 'nuff... to me 'solo' is however many accounts a single human can reasonably control without resorting to click replication software (eg. ISBoxer) or other non-biological means. |
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Posted - 2014.04.18 12:46:00 -
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Steve Ronuken wrote:At that point, you can quite happily run a small fleet with hulks and an orca. They're not exactly high maintenance. and warpout is easy enough with a fleet Fleet warp for evasion, sure. But having to manage all the hulks with their two-cycle ore bays does require a fair bit of attention. I'm happy enough with just one hulk and one boost/haul, after that it starts cutting into social hour on corp chat/TS. The most I saw anyone consistently run was back in my IRON days... guy with one booster and three hulks, who rarely said much that was intelligible (though in his defense, English was not his first language, and he was usually baked ) |
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Posted - 2014.04.20 14:48:00 -
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h4kun4 wrote:imho miners needed a buff for a long time, more minerals = dropping prices = always good for pvpers Miners have understood this simple equation for years. "Leet peeveepee'errrs" don't. We're just targets to them, and then they kvetch about the prices they have to pay when replacing their losses. |
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Posted - 2014.04.29 02:36:00 -
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Dave Stark wrote:no, there isn't a niche for a mining ship that can kill combat ships. that's what combat ships are for. if you want to shoot something; sit in a boat that fits weapons. Which reminds me of the time... waaaay back when (I'm talking like maybe 2005 here) when some idjit was killed by my alt's Iteron V in low sec. Took fleepin' forever, but the guy just refused to admit to himself that a hauler was having the better of him, and he died with his warp scram still tackling. |
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Posted - 2014.05.09 15:45:00 -
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DetKhord Saisio wrote:]No matter how large or small Hulk cargohold becomes, the isk (read very few cheap ships) required to defeat a Hulk's tank is entirely too low. Removing grav sites has not helped the situation either. Agreed, and so true it's not even funny... the 'ceptor changes only make things worse... blasted things can be on top of and tackling you before your gate's bubble camp can warn you they've entered the system. Warp entry/speed/exit changes are one thing, but giving them bubble immunity obliterates one of the things that made T3 cruisers special. |
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Posted - 2014.05.18 19:29:00 -
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FT Diomedes wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:question I have is when are people going to be able to use the strip miners as improvised weapons? :) atm their only usable on asteroids, but given their very strong lasers end of the day, how come they cant be used as improvised weapons in regards to if you get attacked? :) if you were to get grabbed irl know you were going to die etc would you keep trying to run away or would you turn around and hit the one holding you? simple answer is nope you'd turn around and try and free yourself, and use anything to hand to try to do so, so why cant you use the strip miners as imporvised weapons? :) it's not like they can be used by any other ships other than a barge/exhumer....
"Let's see, what did I mine this cycleGǪ here are some random bits of salvage, pod gooGǪ Is that an arm? Yeah, I think that's an arm." I proposed or supported something like this years ago, and still do. I also think the results of such a cycle should be just that, all sorts of random jetsam and flotsam. The damage done by the mining lasers should generally be laughable (single or low double-digits), but every now and then, you "roll a crit" and devastate some major system, say completely tapping out the capacitor, causing all target locks to fail for maybe 2-3 seconds, or triggering an e-warp in some random direction. Point being that a mining laser shouldn't be able to kill another ship (after all, ships are refined minerals, versus compacted space-dust), but they could certainly do weird things when used in a manner inconsistent with the manufacturer's labeling :)
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Posted - 2014.05.21 06:02:00 -
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Dave Stark wrote:Darkblad wrote:Limiting the maximum number of MLU won't make people fit a tank. yes it will, as there's nothing else to put in those slots. No, it won't. I could see inertial damps and warp stabs being popular options for a free low slot. |
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Posted - 2014.05.22 13:06:00 -
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Dave Stark wrote:Atum wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Darkblad wrote:Limiting the maximum number of MLU won't make people fit a tank. yes it will, as there's nothing else to put in those slots. No, it won't. I could see inertial damps and warp stabs being popular options for a free low slot. neither of those are useful. it's trivial for most mining barges to tank themselves to require more than one catalyst to gank them; so you don't have enough low slots to fit enough WCS in order to actually escape a gank (even though concord will likely be responding faster than you'll be able to align). and secondly, warping out isn't an option if you're scrammed, and if you're finishing up a belt, you can align as your cycle finishes and instantly warp when it's complete. as i said, there's really nothing else to put in the lows. Actually, I'm thinking of null, where a stab (or two) would be the difference between life and death against the new bubble-immune, warp-enhanced interceptors. |
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Posted - 2014.05.23 19:35:00 -
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Shadow RimRunner wrote:Have read most of these post and not just the dev post and it seems 50/50 half want tanks and defense and the other half pvp ganker mostly want easier kills well how about this give concord the ability to pod in high sec make gankers think twice if they have to replace the clone as well Because it takes minimal time to train up a blaster catalyst alt, and the SP at that level are so low you might as well call the med clones free (if you bother with them at all) |
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