Why don't you clueless morons just buff the Hulks yield instead of nerfing the Mackinaw. The 1% bonus to yield per exhumer skill on the hulk is a joke. Do you really expect people to want to spend 30 days training for 1% more yield?

try again. you not have the better yield AND the tank. the yield comparison of Fozzie is based about fitting the lows with MLU2s. So no bulkheads and no DCU. so it will not be 60k will it? end result is a lower tank and lower yield, ie double nerf.

they assume max skills and that all but one of the lowslots on each ship is filled with a T2 MLU or IHU (One upgrade for the Covetor and Hulk, two for the rest).

no, thats worth 42k with maxed skills. adding a DCU2 goes to 62k. and ice costs a rig of you want more ice yield.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I don't mean to be insulting. But a dev post from nearly a year ago? That hardly suggests that this topic is "still alive". Especially since they have had 11 months since then, haven't changed a thing about survey scanners in that time, and forgot to include it with any of the changes announced here.

It's great to remain hopeful, but this is :ccp: we are talking about.

Not a carrier but a Drone boat something like let's say myrmidon or prophecy scale with ability to have new tier of "Fighter size" graded mining drones (which will require more skills of course, as you know some ores are bigger then other hence less is mined per trip).

The idea is to have a ship which is kinda like "Mother Bee" that launches her small worker drones to mine an asteroid.. 1 drone per rock.

It will be different experience from what we have now as even best mining drone boat bonus'ed with most sexy fit for drone yield will mine less then T1 strip miner cycle and that's a shame.
Currently drone mining is kinda secondary only to boost a bit your yield.

Also a bonus of drones is that you need no mining crystals and you don't need to sit in "15-20 km range" to get the rocks you just sit in the middle of the belt send the drones and call it a day.

Thing here is try different types of mining instead classic lock > laser > harvest.

Nope, Rorq came first. There's even a bit in the Orca's description about how it's an adaptation of tech originally developed for the Rorq.

The T2 Venture is an interesting thought, but let's get barges/exhumers right first.

With cycle reduction bonuses instead of yield bonuses, you MUST give capacitor amount increases / recharge time reductions!

The Hulk is already marginal with Arkonor II crystals +50% capacitor need penalty. [Mercoxit II are equivalent.]

The Covetor is hopeless in this regard.

huh......got wondering, the mining skills will also change to be cycle based instead of yield or will it remain like that?, also, arent those cycle bonuses too small?, how about a 10% for the other barges/exhumers and a 15% for the covetor/hulk........

That should be the defense for any mining fleet. The defenses on the skiff aren't for players outside of hi sec. You tank a skiff to survive null sec rats. No amount of buffer is going to save you in low or null against players. Giving the hulk an agility bonus makes it easier for them to escape rats, that's all. If reds are getting to you while you're still in the belt, you're still going to die, no matter how fast you align.

Personally, as a highsec Skiff pilot, I'd rather keep the scan resolution as is, and do without the extra drone bay space. I don't really see a change to mindnumbing boredom - rather the opposite - from making targeting on a skiff take longer... in other words making drones on agressive the preferred option for defense over actively targetting.

Again another stupid change that makes lives of passive and lazy players in nullsec easier. One more change that allows them to do things easily, without any effort. And for small ship solo in nullsec... again one more step to make it even less possible. So many ships can be bait now, nobody even has to try hard to make a bait ship.

Please, refrain from all changes that make farmers and industrialists invulnerable to anything but gangs. Also, change NPC aggression so that they would only aggress people who aggress them. Now when NPCs actually guard the guy who is farming them from PVP hunter... that makes any sense?

Ok I was saying that a Covert Op's Venture would be great for the ultimate Ninja mining letting you get in to areas that on combat Covert OP's ship could go just think you get a fleet to black OP's drop in and take as much ore before the 0.0 group knows your there then when the scout send out the waning you jump out with your Booty.

Now on the Procurer/Skiff everyone is talking about a Drone combat bonus I have look several times at booth descriptions and can't find anything talking about it. So where is it listed?

MYS
javascript:insertsmiley('','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_cool.png')

Quick suggestion, would it hurt balance too much if the hulk and the covetor had 12000 m3 ore bays bringing them in line with the procurer. They'd still be varied enough in performance to not overlap but the hulk and covetor might see some more use.

Honestly, I'd rather Skiff drone damage bonus was fixed at 10% per ship skill level like every other ship in EvE instead of just handing out a maxed 50% to every joker who steps into the cockpit.

Are you sure? I've made some calculations and it shows that yeild will drop.

I don't like this. You don't make the hulk better by nerfing everything else; that's the same stupid logic liberals use when they tax the rich ungodly amounts instead of helping the poor get better jobs - "the poor are too poor, let's penalize the rich to make things better". Instead, you are nerfing miners in general. Improve the hulk! No one was complaining that it takes too long to lock Retrievers and Mackinaws. -1

If you really want to do something that makes your upgraded Hulk a possible option, same size the Ore Hold as the Mac and stop making clever, but ultimately futile excuses for not doing so, you may just give the impetus to group mining in Null Sec a boost and the Hulk a reason to be used.

Go on CCP chance your arm on something for once, do something useful

*Cough* it is isn't it? its been a while since ive been to highsec

I would agree with lowering the tank of the skiff/procurer and normalizing them across the board. That would give them all the same viability in a fleet set up.

Currently the only place where a Hulk is viable is in a dead end null system with very reliable intel in the system(s) that lead there.

Hey guys, don't worry.

High-sec mining is done by noobs and care-bears, remember?

These are the people PvPers love to gank, so CCP wants to make it easier for them.

It doesn't matter to CCP that the noobs won't be converting their trial accounts to subscriptions. CCP makes enough money off the Gankers. PvPers who cry if they don't have easy targets (who can't fight back) to pad their killmails with.

I am a player who will ONLY leave High Sec Mining when I leave EvE online.

CCP will NOT convince me to EVER mine in Low Sec or Null Sec until I can operate a ship that can SHOOT BACK when a ganker approaches.

I'm not talking about a warship hull, either. I'm talking about a hull the ganker sees as a juicy, fat miner, but turns out to be hellfire and death to the ganker.

It won't matter if I can actually MINE with that ship as long as that coward ganker finds out miners are no longer guarenteed killmails.

I counter that question with another.

When have the drones a miner can carry been able to stop a ganker (unless the ganker is woefully unprepared)?

In the year I have been playing, I have lost 3 Ventures, 9 Retreivers, and four Mackinaws to gankers while mining in high sec (I mine no where else).

Before I retired this character to forum duty, her last loss was a mackinaw with tech 2 drones, shield rigs, shield boosts and shield extenders.

I was watching (and tried to escape while the drones attacked) as a catalyst killed that mack in 7 seconds.

give the miners a way to turn the tables on gankers and watch the flow to low sec.

The best way is easy.

Rigs

have a rig that takes so much cargo or ore hold (maybe 1500 m3 for a small one) that warships can't mount it.
make that rig mount a turret for a weapon (a small turret for that 1500 m3 rig)
give flat bonuses ( not % bonuses) to one or more of the following:

Total shield
Shield regen
Total capacitor
Capacitor regen

Such a setup would make even a venture rigged fully a tough costumer for a 'ganker-fitted' destroyer.
That destroyer would have to be fully fitted for combat to fight that venture, but then the ganker would lose a hell of a lot more isk if that ship was destroyed.

That would cause the ganker to hesitate before engaging a miner (is it a disguised combat ship?) and possibly give the true miner a chance to escape.

were you a solo miner?

I am. I have had several bad experiances joining player corps who promised I would only mine. EVERY SINGLE ONE expected me to jump in a warship and participate in a declared war less than twenty-four hours after I joined. This is AFTER I told them I WOULD NOT PvP.

I am not a Pvp player and I am a solo player. I will stay mining in High sec until I can turn the tables on gankers while pretending to be a solo miner.

My outlook is NOT as rare as you or CCP seem to think it is.

I am aware CCP wants this to be a 'team game' with the corps being the teams

which is why EACH of them were paid off before they were ganked.

Macks and retreivers are more productive.

:Rant:

You are so ******* wrong it hurts my soul:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23712184
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23784622
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23691413

You can fight in a procurer, but the same rules apply for a combat ship. Drones are a weapon system, USE THEM WELL.

Skiff is even better because of the Medium drone upgrades.

Much fail if you can't step out of the kiddy pool of high-sec and find out what it means to mine dangerously.

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THE NERF IN THE FIRST PLACE?

It's not like mining barges and exhumers are the speed demons or mobility kings of the game. If anything mining barges and exhumers have more difficulty getting around than just about every other ship type in the game.

I get you're trying to force people out of high sec into low and null where you THINK they'll have more fun with PvP.
I get that you need more easy-to-kill targets for the gankers who don't want their targets to shoot back.

But there ARE players out here who are more interested in the more mature aspects of EvE and don't want to run around with targets painted on their ships. I happen to be one of them.

You will NEVER force me into low sec nor null sec to mine in an expensive, unarmed ship. You'd sooner convince me to leave EvE online altogether.

and don't tell me to join a player corp, either. I have had my fill of them. I admit I have only a year of playing in EvE but I have more than 14 years of playing online games (yes, MMORPGs have been around that long).

The player corps in EvE have proven themselves to be more abusive and more dishonorable to new members than the 'guilds, super-teams, and whatever other organization you want to name them' than just about any other game I've played. Believe me, that is a hard distinction to earn after some of the games I've played.

I have already turned off the 'renewal' function of my account so when the present funding expires in November, I'm gone unless something changes drastically.

I am a solo miner in high sec collecting ships of all four main factions. I am NOT a player chasing killmails and I will NOT join a corp because I don't want to get involved in a wardec. I know just the thought of playing EvE without PvP seems inconceivable to many of the players in the game, But I suspect those players would be surprised how many other players n the game would agree with me.

I am certain CCP wants to cater to PvP players and would rather the non-PvP just leave.

There, rant done. Now waiting for gameban

Okay. How does one do that?

On a different note now....

I want to say that, as a miner, I like these changes. The ships look good. But I'm not quite getting something and maybe someone can explain it to me.

I'm having trouble justifying the exhumers. On paper, they have great stats. On EFT, I'm generally liking what I'm seeing. Especially the Skiff. But the improvements over the normal "mining barge" counterparts seems rather minimal. At the end of the day, the improved performance of the exhumers just doesn't seem to be enough to justify their cost. Fitting for maximum yield (which yes I know is a bad idea for such expensive ships), it still takes a long, long time to make up the purchase price.

Mind you, I'm not talking about just getting the exhumer to pay for itself. I'm talking about purely the amount of m3 you get over the lesser cousin of each ship. The yield difference between them is best shown between the Coveter and Hulk (especially since I really want to fly a hulk. I'm skilled up for it, but haven't gone for it yet because of my reservations).

Anyway, fitted for max yield, the difference in yield between the Coveter and the Hulk is only in the range of around 258m3/minute (unless I'm fitting wrong. Anybody want to jump in on this?). So taking that minor improvement and seeing how long it takes to make up for the difference in price between the hulls, and you end up with a lot of hours.

But that's fitted for max yield. We all know you wouldn't take a 220m ship and fit it without a tank. So, your yield is likely to be less on the exhumer hull. The good news is that exhumers come with a little natural tank so it makes your life easier, but altogether I'm not really seeing a real need for the hulk. The massive expense of the hull just doesn't seem to come with enough improvements to justify it.

The purpose of the hulk is mainly group mining ops, right? Well why would you field a billion isk worth of exhumers for a very minimal amount of improvement over the same field of the mining barge equivalent (which would still cost less than one exhumer hull)?

As for the Mack, the slightly better yield and larger ore bay, eh, I suppose an argument could be made for it or against it, compared to the expense of the hull. Personally I again don't see enough improvement to justify the exhumer price. Well I shouldn't say that. More accurately it's tempting, but not great enough for me to just jump into buying one.

The skiff, as I said earlier, looks freaking awesome on paper. That one, I'm excited about. The tank on that is definitely enough to justify price, and the ability to manage some defense (even if not great defense) makes it the only vessel I can immediately see as worth the purchase price.

The other two, I need convincing on. Which is why I'm posting here. Can someone explain to me the allure of the two other exhumer hulls? Thanks in advance.

(also, the draft saving is an awesome forum feature. Just sayin')

are u missing out on the fact that when 5 mission runners group together they can choose dps specialised fits with a logi friend and complete a mission in less than 1/5th of the time? i havent done it myself, but with missions like the blockade u could probably put everyone in ABC's and clear that in a fraction of the time.

and when mining with friends in 10 hulks with one or two alt haulers, u can mine more effectively than 2 guys controlling 5 hulks and a hauler each? not unless they are very skilled multi boxers, in which case, good job! enjoy those rewards.

so having groups allows greater specialisation. Which does tend to yield greater rewards.

There are players in the game that have learned to avoid 'group play' due to bad experiences. I am one of those.

Don't worry about the dedicated solo miners.
CCP doesn't.
CCP thinks there are so few of us, our absence from the game wouldn't even be noticed.
I hope they're right, but I doubt it.

I will be mining in high sec until one of three things happens:
a> my account runs out (in November) and I decide I no longer need to play this game.
b> CCP makes solo mining in high sec so unprofitable, it simply isn't done anymore.
c> CCP enacts a means for miners to fight back (not playing 'turtle', but actually shooting back)

I believe "A" will occur
"B" looks like a good chance after "A" happens (which could of kill the game)
"C" doesn't look to be even an outside chance (at least, not soon enough to save the game if "B" happens).

First of all, if I'm mining and a ganker shows, I want to shoot back. Why is that so cotton-picking hard to understand?

Second, I do not have the funds or the computer to run multiple characters at a time, so I am doing what I like with the one (which does NOT include hunting for PvP).
I am aware I can have 3 on one account and see no reason to go thru the hassel of turning off the training for one just to train another when the first can have the training of both. and I do not have the funds to do that 'two-character' training BS.

Yes, the retreiver or mack can deploy five light drones and the mack can have another squadron in reserve. That SHOULD be enough, by what you say, but it isn't.

I am NOT an AFK miner. I agree afk mining is stupid. I stay busy while mining by alternating my strip miners and thus have 90-seconds cycles (without boosts). Spotting a scout is not as easy as you let on. ANY ship can be a scout. Hell, a player can two-box and have a shuttle go thru your belt in 5 seconds or have another miner start mining. The ganker doesn't have to spring the trap immediately, either. I know of at least one incident when the ganker hit a miner 5 minutes after the scout left.

If the mining ship left a belt every time another ship showed, the miner would not be mining.

I have type 2 drones with Drone, Drone interface, drone durability and drone damage ALL MAXXED (5) and they don't do diddly to the ganker before even the hardest tanked retreiver or mack is dead.
So, why bother tanking when it only reduces your yield? Fit for max yield and get that isk collected before a ganker shows.

Before the kronos update, THIS toon could gain the isk to buy and fit a mack in 8-10 days. Any isk after that is profit. Gankers don't show up often enough (if you carefully select your system) to ruin that profit.

I don't know how things are after Kronos because I started a new toon and retired this one to the forums. The new toon has all the assets (100+ ships and 4 billion+ isk) of my account. That toon is sitting in a station building drone skills (then mining skills) until I'm again ready to mine.

That new toon will ONLY mine in high sec (using MTUs) unless CCP gets smart and provides the solo miner a means to FIGHT a ganking attempt. If such a ability is not possible with the retreiver/mack, my miners will fit for max yield and (hopefully) provide the profit that way as they did before Kronos.

I am aware there is a barge/exhumer combo that is super tank (it was designed for it). Unless the entire system has been drastically altered by Kronos, they can not 'max-tank' and 'max-mine' with the same fit.

They can not survive a gank unless they're 'max-tank' and they can not out-mine the retriever/mackinaw unless they're 'max-mining'.

I have a new toon training to mine after Kronos (this toon is retired to the forums), so it'll be a while before the skills are built up to using the mack or my orcas.

wrong option? maybe. but it's the option I will use because it has been working for me.

purposely losing yield to try to survive a fight I have no way of winning anyway is just not right. Instead, I fit for max yield with as little time lost to freighting ore as possible.

It works.