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SB Rico
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
241
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Posted - 2014.04.04 04:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
Another issue...
What happens if someone removes a skill that was a pre-requisite for another skill they kept? Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.
Killing me should be for free. |
Khoul Ay'd
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
174
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Posted - 2014.04.04 04:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
NO! A thousand times NO!!! Eve is about decisions and consequences, if you do it you live with it. Permanently! The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
515
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Posted - 2014.04.04 09:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
SB Rico wrote:Another issue...
What happens if someone removes a skill that was a pre-requisite for another skill they kept? tbh, this is rather easy to fix, if one removes SP from a skill, then all the skills requiring it would also be removed.
kinda like linux dependencies, it is not hard to do, really.... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
339
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Posted - 2014.04.04 09:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.
The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself. They do make your character unique but qat the same time almost every player i have spoken to had a traiing plan that was "all over the place" when they first joined the game. Once they join a decent corp then they get help and assistance with plans. OK granted a 1 year remap maybe too much, but certainly a one off tweak would not be so bad.
My training plan has always been all over the place as I use a JIT training approach. Even if you training plan was undecided during your first few weeks how many SP can you really have misplaced? The focus on the first few weeks training should be put into the core basic skills, maybe the tutorials don't push this enough.
Having said that I trained missiles for a while and they got nerfed to death. I wouldn't want to be able to gain the sp back though as it'll probably be useful at some point. In Eve patience is the only virtue left... |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
146
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh?
Oh but there will be another... |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
146
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Posted - 2014.04.04 11:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? Oh but there will be another...
I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.04.04 14:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? Oh but there will be another... I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time. The only one rude here is you. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
147
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Posted - 2014.04.04 14:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? Oh but there will be another... I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time. The only one rude here is you.
Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.04.04 15:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote: Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere.
Look, it's simple - browse forums and think before posting.. |
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Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
147
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Posted - 2014.04.04 15:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote: Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere.
Look, it's simple - browse forums and think before posting..
OK, so I didn't search the forums, so apparently that makes me rude. but really? rather than people just kicking up a stink because "oh he committed such a crime and didn't search the forums" than rather than just flame that person for that maybe just answer the post with an opinion, as some people have.
You know I get the feeling that is all some people do, someone posts something > bunches of people then search the forums to make sure they can find that subject matter so they can flame that person for not searching to forums > then they flame that person. I wonder if people are more annoyed with my suggestion or the fact I didn't search... and if i did search but didn't find anything do I need to put a disclaimer at the beginning of my post something like "I searched on X search criteria but couldn't find X"
That's fine though, I get how it works here now, almost as bad as jita local. but hey my mistake. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
416
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Posted - 2014.04.04 17:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursement for skill points or skill books. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
174
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Posted - 2014.04.04 19:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Yea, CCP business model is keep them training and if they knew what they were training for is crap, well they'd leave.
They are probably the only game that does not allow respec of any type.
Their theory is if their player base knew how crappy it is to have that new ship, etc, they wouldn't play anymore, for the same reason they don't have accelerated training on the test server anymore.
Personally I think respecs would bring a lot of players back to the game, and keep more in game longer, but if this is how they want to run it, it's their game...... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
341
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Posted - 2014.04.04 19:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
Being able to respec skills would just homogenize the player base into the FotM ship for combat, explo, or mining. Your skill path is what makes your character unique and is the most important thing about the character. Compared to character progression in old rpgs this is a breeze... |
Djeli
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.04.04 22:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Bad idea so no.
First. You have failed to show that this is enough of a problem that it warrants such a huge change to the game (and yes this would be a huge paradigm shift to the game).
For example, given your current character, how much SP did you actually "waste" as a noob. My guess (as I did the same) is that if you honestly look, the amount of SP "wasted" is not that high. In looking at my worst toon (for which i went way down a road that ultimately I changed my mind about) it is still only about 2.5 million SP. Even at the default rate this is only a couple months of wasted training. In the long term of playing a game like eve it is essentially nothing.
Second, nobody has even talked about how this can be manipulated/abused, which it can be.
I have had several characters with this problem. The biggest one was from 2003. I sold him in 2007 or 08. I forget which. Out of the roughly 90M SP he had at the time, about 30-35M SP would have considered wasted among science skills which I no longer used once they stopped doing the T2 lottery (if anyone remembers that), mining skills were wasted since I no longer needed to mine to make money like nearly everyone had to 2003, and production which was also no longer necessary since I stopped building things years prior after some further changes, and not to mention the ships that I stopped flying and weapons I stopped using once I learned how they worked and/or changes that were made that made me like them less. Unfortunately I sold him because my clone costs were outrageous and 2 months after I sold him, they lowered clone costs. Although the wasted SP would definitely be bothering me today as would clone costs. I no longer fly battleships or capital ships and stick to frigates or battlecruisers. My clone would still cost as much as a BC by now if I still had him even with the now reduced costs.
I have another example. This year I returned to the game by buying another character. He had about 23M SP out of 78M wasted that I wouldn't use. I sold him later partly because of that once I got reaquainted with what ships I like (it hasn't changed since I was a full time player really) and because I slowly grew to dislike the name which CCP doesn't let you change.
The same is also true of this character but not to the same level. The SP that CCP gave in the free battlecruiser and destroyer skills fairly recently is wasted SP for this character because I don't have the associated weaponry for them nor will I be training them because I don't like them. All the free skills did is drive up my clone cost. And no, you can't petition to have them removed. I would have liked to have had the option to not get those skills.
Sometimes SP are wasted thanks to changes CCP itself makes. This has been true since the game started.
It would be easy to control now. Do it like the remaps where it is only available a couple times in a year or only once per year. That way you don't have people doing it on a whim. |
Commander IceQ
Electric Banana Union 0f Revolution
9
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Posted - 2014.04.04 23:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Yea, CCP business model is keep them training and if they knew what they were training for is crap, well they'd leave.
They are probably the only game that does not allow respec of any type.
Their theory is if their player base knew how crappy it is to have that new ship, etc, they wouldn't play anymore, for the same reason they don't have accelerated training on the test server anymore.
Personally I think respecs would bring a lot of players back to the game, and keep more in game longer, but if this is how they want to run it, it's their game...... If it is that "crappy" and "ruined" why are you still playing? Respecs are not really needed, it won't bring people back.
@OP: I trained some skills when I started (hybrids, they sucked back then) , then a few years later they were fixed and the points was used again. So as I always tell new players, no trained skill is a waste. The moment you think that it is time for a break from eve or to quit.
I trained energy weapons and realized I should have gone with projectiles. So guess what I did... (no I did not wish I had the sp back) ... I trained projectiles. Then I played with Minnie ships, I am currently sitting in a Legion, so training the energy weapons was not a waste. I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 22:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Being able to respec skills would just homogenize the player base into the FotM ship for combat, explo, or mining. Your skill path is what makes your character unique and is the most important thing about the character. Compared to character progression in old rpgs this is a breeze...
I don't really see any difference between that and buying a toon and selling the one you have.
They shouldn't allow selling of characters then.
Oh, but they can beg, oh get your friends to resub and we'll give you 7 days 'free' game time.
https://secure.eveonline.com/recallprogram/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=recall%20program&utm_campaign=recall%20program |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
343
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 23:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Actually I don't like that you can buy characters but it already exists...no reason to make things worse with skill refunds, remaps, etc etc :D
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
174
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Posted - 2014.04.06 00:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Actually I don't like that you can buy characters but it already exists...no reason to make things worse with skill refunds, remaps, etc etc :D
Point is, if they want people to play the game, they will give them something to play with. Simple as that.
People change their game play after a while, and if they need to sit around and train for it, again, it's more likely they will just go play a different game. Obviously they don't see it that way, so it's their loss.
Personally, I have nothing I really want to train, or that would make any impact on the way I play. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
17007
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 06:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Point is, if they want people to play the game, they will give them something to play with. Simple as that.
People change their game play after a while, and if they need to sit around and train for it, again, it's more likely they will just go play a different game. Obviously they don't see it that way, so it's their loss.
Personally, I have nothing I really want to train, or that would make any impact on the way I play.
They already have something to play with and giving them a way to move their SP every year, would in no way help those people. It wouldn't help the game either.
Buying characters is nothing like the OP. The OP looks to bypass normal game mechanics. When you buy a character, you are buying one that had to be trained using normal game mechanics. It went through the same process and already exists.
I gave bullet points earlier in the thread and it points to just how poisonous this idea would be.
As far as changing your mind and game play, I still don't see the issue. Unless of course, you're the type that thinks you should have level 5 in everything before you play. I'll make it clear now, you don't.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1553
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 07:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
This idea is bad and you should feel bad. EVE has consequences, and you should have to live with your mistakes. Besides, no SP is wasted because you could always do whatever it is you were training to do. Needing all your skills right now is an illusion, trust me after a while you run out of interesting things to train.
As the Taoists say, "The journey is the reward".
However, for the sake of comedy, I am going to play the devil's advocate and talk about the awesome advantages of skill reassignment!
WARNING: Incoming sarcasm.
By allowing skills to be readily reassigned bitter veteran players, like myself, who have 60m, 80m, 120m, and higher SP will be able to easily respec to the FOTM setup. Gone would be the days of having to worry about training for new fleet doctrines, because I could just respec to whatever the FC orders that minute and be the best insert role here you've ever seen.
Not just that, but if we combine this awesome skill reassignment ability with Mobile Depots and Carrier / Orca hangers, the elite PVP possibilities are endless. Think of the awesome Youtube videos that could be made! A bold new era of elite PVP would be at hand, one which is rightfully inaccessible to those plebian noobs who don't have the SP to take advantage of it.
I hope you can see the problems with these kinds of proposals. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
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