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Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to see the ability to delete skill points from skills already trained in order to gain those skill points in order to be distributed to other areas either on that same character or on one of the other 2 characters within your account. This is currently possible technically as I remember being given skill points to use when there were technical issues in the past, and was also given skill points for having Destroyers and Battlecruisers trained to V just before they brough in racial training for each of those areas.
Limitations would be only could do it once a year (like a remap) and cost would be 1 plex.
Why: I am sure it is the same with a lot of people in that when first starting EvE our training plans were all over the place, training anything on a whim and a fancy rather than being focused on particular areas such as having an indy character and a pvp character (for example).
Additionally with skills we donGÇÖt need/want as baggage on our main characters the cost to upgrade our clones once podded in PVP goes up, if we have the ability to GÇ£tidy upGÇ¥ our character training sheet that would at least enable us to transfer sp to another toon in order to reduce the cost of upgrading clones in such a loss.
For example I would like this toon to be more pvp focused, I have all racial frigates to V am aiming to get all racial cruisers to V to. But at the same time I also have a hell of a lot of science skills on this toon which I would like to move to another one of my account characters
The benefit to CCP is that it is an isk sink for players wanting to tidy their characters training tree and for players it enables them to repair bad training choices or even changes the focus on their characters.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
there has been several threads made on the request of getting skillpoints back for several reasons but all of them have been shot down by other players cos they see this as a method of pay2win and that the mistakes we made in the past we should still be stuck with them |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are always going to be people with different opinions. I can't see how it would be a pay to win situation though, Even if it was allowed only once per character at the cost of 1 plex it would be useful (I think).
If shot down (as I suspect it will be) then perhaps the tutorials should been a greater emphasis on the skillpoints and educate newer players on them in more detail so the issue potentially can be avoided. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
332
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think people get too hung up on skillpoints. Most people will only be using a subsetof skills at any given time and it is only those skills you need to really worry about. Those that you trained and no longer use are irrelevant, and you never know when an area of the game will be worked on that sudden;y draws you back to it.
I'm definitely of the view not to allow this, you made choices and stick by them. ultimately they will have little ipact on your current gamestyle in the end. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:If shot down (as I suspect it will be) then perhaps the tutorials should been a greater emphasis on the skillpoints and educate newer players on them in more detail so the issue potentially can be avoided.
I can see why that is an issue, I've ran through the tutorial missions a few times since it helps increase standings however they are limited to the amount they teach you which is why I believe ccp are currently holding some tutorials too to help players who may have issues like that
personally I'd love to reset some of the skill points I have on one of my characters cos he don't need certain skills which he was trained for at the start anymore for the current play style he currently does however I am fine with how things are even now. |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry
1154
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:I would like to see the ability to delete skill points from skills already trained in order to gain those skill points in order to be distributed to other areas either on that same character or on one of the other 2 characters within your account.
Well I would like to see people use the SEARCH function before posting bad ideas, but I guess that's not going to happen either.
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:or on one of the other 2 characters within your account
Seriously??? And you can't see how this can be abused???? I had to stop reading there.... so bad... I feel like I need a scalding hot shower.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Enjoy your shower...
[there is always at least one isn't there] I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
No |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16983
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
No. For all the reasons it's been no in the past.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tabyll Altol
Aww.. right in the Balls. that hurts
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
No. |
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
514
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
agreed the curent proposal is not good.
the ONLY case i would like to see this hapening however, is now, and only once.
why? you might ask.
simple:
with the last few updates, CCP made several skill that used to be usefull, kind of useless, like the exploration skills etc....
since the players have no control at all about this, it would make sense that CCP either refound thoses specific skills, or grant everyone the ability to "remap" (maybe for PLEX) but only ONCE / toon, and of course with no possibility to switch SP to another toon
IMAO, the best solution would be that CCP refound the very specific skills SP (and reset set skill to 0 indeed), so players cannot vantage this to actually remap completely unrelated skills.
this way, ppl still wanting to use them can, and those who get "screwed" (cause yes, that is what happen for explo) of their SP investment, can at least get back the weeks / month worth of raining that CCP stole from them |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3813
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fixed your post.
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:I would like to see the ability to Search the Forums from threads already posted in order to view repeated ideas in order to stop incessantly repeating the threads on that same topic or on one of the other 2 million similar threads This is currently possible technically as a search function is provided to use when there were technically capable posters in the past, and was also utilized by competent posters for having informed, well rounded ideas just before they posted pros and cons in a balanced manner for each of those areas.
Limitations on your forum capabilities are understandable, but you need to improve.
Why: I am sure it is the same with a lot of people in that when first starting reading our forums were all over the place, posting anything on a whim and a fancy rather than being focused on particular areas such as having competent, well informed ideas (see Op for example).
Additionally with threads we donGÇÖt need/want as baggage on our F&I Froums increases the cost to find quality ideas here goes up, if we have the ability to GÇ£tidy upGÇ¥ these forums that would at least enable us to transfer quality ideas to the CSM and CCP in order to reduce the cost of disseminating such information.
For example I would like this thread to be more intelligently focused, I have a thorough understanding of why SP transfer is terrible for the game. But at the same time I also have a hell of a lot of annoyance, and I would like the Op to search rather than move the discussion to another thread of the exact same topic
The benefit to CCP is that it reduces the time sink for players wanting to repeat the same asinine ideas and for players it enables them to understand bad concept choices or even changes the focus on their arguments.
TL;DR; Learn you forum search.
And NO, you shall not have skillpoint redistribution. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2122
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bad idea so no.
First. You have failed to show that this is enough of a problem that it warrants such a huge change to the game (and yes this would be a huge paradigm shift to the game).
For example, given your current character, how much SP did you actually "waste" as a noob. My guess (as I did the same) is that if you honestly look, the amount of SP "wasted" is not that high. In looking at my worst toon (for which i went way down a road that ultimately I changed my mind about) it is still only about 2.5 million SP. Even at the default rate this is only a couple months of wasted training. In the long term of playing a game like eve it is essentially nothing.
Second, nobody has even talked about how this can be manipulated/abused, which it can be. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
335
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.
The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
553
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
http://gph.is/1oNAxpN Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
161
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:http://gph.is/1oNAxpN
I completely agree. |
Sigras
Conglomo
712
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Bad idea so no.
First. You have failed to show that this is enough of a problem that it warrants such a huge change to the game (and yes this would be a huge paradigm shift to the game).
For example, given your current character, how much SP did you actually "waste" as a noob. My guess (as I did the same) is that if you honestly look, the amount of SP "wasted" is not that high. In looking at my worst toon (for which i went way down a road that ultimately I changed my mind about) it is still only about 2.5 million SP. Even at the default rate this is only a couple months of wasted training. In the long term of playing a game like eve it is essentially nothing.
Second, nobody has even talked about how this can be manipulated/abused, which it can be.
These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll. Ill admit I didnt count the SP that I figured wasted and perhaps the once per year was not workable, perhaps a once only and not interchangeable between characters.
The idea was borne out of looking at my SP, the nerfs to exploration and what I consider to be nerfs to industry, CCP are making these changes and certain things that were skilled up for now feel redundant to me. Obviously the general concensus is a no, and thats fair enough. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sigras wrote:I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly.
That is a fair point. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Daoden
The Scope Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
5 year player joins noob corp on his 10 day alt, Xfers millions of SP to that 10 day old after being accepted in. Awoxes the crap out of newbies on a 10 day old character. I vote YES =) but seriously no |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2293
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sigras wrote:I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly. What constitutes a mistake in training? Even doing something silly like training lasers when you fly Minmatar will at one point be usable. -á --á |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1072
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll.
Oh come on, you started this thread to troll, didn't you? If not, I refer you to my comment on your last brilliant idea. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.
The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself.
They do make your character unique but qat the same time almost every player i have spoken to had a traiing plan that was "all over the place" when they first joined the game. Once they join a decent corp then they get help and assistance with plans.
OK granted a 1 year remap maybe too much, but certainly a one off tweak would not be so bad. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll. Oh come on, you started this thread to troll, didn't you? If not, I refer you to my comment on your last brilliant idea.
Admiral, I dont troll, you may not believe that, and if so I cannot help that opinion. I still dont think that that was a bad idea, in fact all you seem to be able to do is come out with snide comments that dont really offer much to anything. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Sigras wrote:I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly. What constitutes a mistake in training? Even doing something silly like training lasers when you fly Minmatar will at one point be usable.
My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1072
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant.
Actions have consequences, welcome to Eve, please drive carefully. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant. Actions have consequences, welcome to Eve, please drive carefully.
Indeed, and people that have been around a while know that, when your new the learning curve is massive, is it not? or am I wrong? so it would be nice to go back and rectify that, if not, then it needs to be covered more in the tutorials. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16986
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Read here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
And here. For more reasons why it's always going to be NO.
TL:DR In the words of Tippia:
Tippia wrote:It removes the point of having skills to begin with. It removes the point of having attributes. It removes attribute implants from the game. It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups. It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character. It removes planning and choice and consequences. It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas. It kills character trading. It massively boosts older characters over new ones. It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3818
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Read here. Here.Here.Here.Here.And here. For more reasons why it's always going to be NO. TL:DR In the words of Tippia: Tippia wrote:It removes the point of having skills to begin with. It removes the point of having attributes. It removes attribute implants from the game. It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups. It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character. It removes planning and choice and consequences. It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas. It kills character trading. It massively boosts older characters over new ones. It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.
If you give a man a fish, you only feed him for a day!
@ Op, we aren't trolling you when we tell you to do a forum search before reposting one of the most commonly proposed ideas.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
484
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
I cannot support this even though it would grant me a massive advantage.
I'm afraid that I feel this suggestion would make the training process and the choices we make in relation to it pointless not to mention the contribution it would make to the already lamentable amount of homogenisation that has occurred in EvE already.
I would rather see better tutorials and information for new players allowing them to make better and more intelligent choices. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
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SB Rico
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
241
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 04:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
Another issue...
What happens if someone removes a skill that was a pre-requisite for another skill they kept? Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.
Killing me should be for free. |
Khoul Ay'd
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
174
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 04:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
NO! A thousand times NO!!! Eve is about decisions and consequences, if you do it you live with it. Permanently! The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
515
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
SB Rico wrote:Another issue...
What happens if someone removes a skill that was a pre-requisite for another skill they kept? tbh, this is rather easy to fix, if one removes SP from a skill, then all the skills requiring it would also be removed.
kinda like linux dependencies, it is not hard to do, really.... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
339
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.
The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself. They do make your character unique but qat the same time almost every player i have spoken to had a traiing plan that was "all over the place" when they first joined the game. Once they join a decent corp then they get help and assistance with plans. OK granted a 1 year remap maybe too much, but certainly a one off tweak would not be so bad.
My training plan has always been all over the place as I use a JIT training approach. Even if you training plan was undecided during your first few weeks how many SP can you really have misplaced? The focus on the first few weeks training should be put into the core basic skills, maybe the tutorials don't push this enough.
Having said that I trained missiles for a while and they got nerfed to death. I wouldn't want to be able to gain the sp back though as it'll probably be useful at some point. In Eve patience is the only virtue left... |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
146
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 10:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 10:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh?
Oh but there will be another... |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
146
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? Oh but there will be another...
I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 14:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? Oh but there will be another... I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time. The only one rude here is you. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
147
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 14:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh? Oh but there will be another... I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time. The only one rude here is you.
Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 15:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote: Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere.
Look, it's simple - browse forums and think before posting.. |
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Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
147
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 15:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote: Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere.
Look, it's simple - browse forums and think before posting..
OK, so I didn't search the forums, so apparently that makes me rude. but really? rather than people just kicking up a stink because "oh he committed such a crime and didn't search the forums" than rather than just flame that person for that maybe just answer the post with an opinion, as some people have.
You know I get the feeling that is all some people do, someone posts something > bunches of people then search the forums to make sure they can find that subject matter so they can flame that person for not searching to forums > then they flame that person. I wonder if people are more annoyed with my suggestion or the fact I didn't search... and if i did search but didn't find anything do I need to put a disclaimer at the beginning of my post something like "I searched on X search criteria but couldn't find X"
That's fine though, I get how it works here now, almost as bad as jita local. but hey my mistake. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
416
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 17:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursement for skill points or skill books. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Yea, CCP business model is keep them training and if they knew what they were training for is crap, well they'd leave.
They are probably the only game that does not allow respec of any type.
Their theory is if their player base knew how crappy it is to have that new ship, etc, they wouldn't play anymore, for the same reason they don't have accelerated training on the test server anymore.
Personally I think respecs would bring a lot of players back to the game, and keep more in game longer, but if this is how they want to run it, it's their game...... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
Being able to respec skills would just homogenize the player base into the FotM ship for combat, explo, or mining. Your skill path is what makes your character unique and is the most important thing about the character. Compared to character progression in old rpgs this is a breeze... |
Djeli
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 22:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Bad idea so no.
First. You have failed to show that this is enough of a problem that it warrants such a huge change to the game (and yes this would be a huge paradigm shift to the game).
For example, given your current character, how much SP did you actually "waste" as a noob. My guess (as I did the same) is that if you honestly look, the amount of SP "wasted" is not that high. In looking at my worst toon (for which i went way down a road that ultimately I changed my mind about) it is still only about 2.5 million SP. Even at the default rate this is only a couple months of wasted training. In the long term of playing a game like eve it is essentially nothing.
Second, nobody has even talked about how this can be manipulated/abused, which it can be.
I have had several characters with this problem. The biggest one was from 2003. I sold him in 2007 or 08. I forget which. Out of the roughly 90M SP he had at the time, about 30-35M SP would have considered wasted among science skills which I no longer used once they stopped doing the T2 lottery (if anyone remembers that), mining skills were wasted since I no longer needed to mine to make money like nearly everyone had to 2003, and production which was also no longer necessary since I stopped building things years prior after some further changes, and not to mention the ships that I stopped flying and weapons I stopped using once I learned how they worked and/or changes that were made that made me like them less. Unfortunately I sold him because my clone costs were outrageous and 2 months after I sold him, they lowered clone costs. Although the wasted SP would definitely be bothering me today as would clone costs. I no longer fly battleships or capital ships and stick to frigates or battlecruisers. My clone would still cost as much as a BC by now if I still had him even with the now reduced costs.
I have another example. This year I returned to the game by buying another character. He had about 23M SP out of 78M wasted that I wouldn't use. I sold him later partly because of that once I got reaquainted with what ships I like (it hasn't changed since I was a full time player really) and because I slowly grew to dislike the name which CCP doesn't let you change.
The same is also true of this character but not to the same level. The SP that CCP gave in the free battlecruiser and destroyer skills fairly recently is wasted SP for this character because I don't have the associated weaponry for them nor will I be training them because I don't like them. All the free skills did is drive up my clone cost. And no, you can't petition to have them removed. I would have liked to have had the option to not get those skills.
Sometimes SP are wasted thanks to changes CCP itself makes. This has been true since the game started.
It would be easy to control now. Do it like the remaps where it is only available a couple times in a year or only once per year. That way you don't have people doing it on a whim. |
Commander IceQ
Electric Banana Union 0f Revolution
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 23:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Yea, CCP business model is keep them training and if they knew what they were training for is crap, well they'd leave.
They are probably the only game that does not allow respec of any type.
Their theory is if their player base knew how crappy it is to have that new ship, etc, they wouldn't play anymore, for the same reason they don't have accelerated training on the test server anymore.
Personally I think respecs would bring a lot of players back to the game, and keep more in game longer, but if this is how they want to run it, it's their game...... If it is that "crappy" and "ruined" why are you still playing? Respecs are not really needed, it won't bring people back.
@OP: I trained some skills when I started (hybrids, they sucked back then) , then a few years later they were fixed and the points was used again. So as I always tell new players, no trained skill is a waste. The moment you think that it is time for a break from eve or to quit.
I trained energy weapons and realized I should have gone with projectiles. So guess what I did... (no I did not wish I had the sp back) ... I trained projectiles. Then I played with Minnie ships, I am currently sitting in a Legion, so training the energy weapons was not a waste. I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 22:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Being able to respec skills would just homogenize the player base into the FotM ship for combat, explo, or mining. Your skill path is what makes your character unique and is the most important thing about the character. Compared to character progression in old rpgs this is a breeze...
I don't really see any difference between that and buying a toon and selling the one you have.
They shouldn't allow selling of characters then.
Oh, but they can beg, oh get your friends to resub and we'll give you 7 days 'free' game time.
https://secure.eveonline.com/recallprogram/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=recall%20program&utm_campaign=recall%20program |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
343
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 23:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Actually I don't like that you can buy characters but it already exists...no reason to make things worse with skill refunds, remaps, etc etc :D
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 00:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Actually I don't like that you can buy characters but it already exists...no reason to make things worse with skill refunds, remaps, etc etc :D
Point is, if they want people to play the game, they will give them something to play with. Simple as that.
People change their game play after a while, and if they need to sit around and train for it, again, it's more likely they will just go play a different game. Obviously they don't see it that way, so it's their loss.
Personally, I have nothing I really want to train, or that would make any impact on the way I play. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
17007
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 06:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Point is, if they want people to play the game, they will give them something to play with. Simple as that.
People change their game play after a while, and if they need to sit around and train for it, again, it's more likely they will just go play a different game. Obviously they don't see it that way, so it's their loss.
Personally, I have nothing I really want to train, or that would make any impact on the way I play.
They already have something to play with and giving them a way to move their SP every year, would in no way help those people. It wouldn't help the game either.
Buying characters is nothing like the OP. The OP looks to bypass normal game mechanics. When you buy a character, you are buying one that had to be trained using normal game mechanics. It went through the same process and already exists.
I gave bullet points earlier in the thread and it points to just how poisonous this idea would be.
As far as changing your mind and game play, I still don't see the issue. Unless of course, you're the type that thinks you should have level 5 in everything before you play. I'll make it clear now, you don't.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1553
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 07:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
This idea is bad and you should feel bad. EVE has consequences, and you should have to live with your mistakes. Besides, no SP is wasted because you could always do whatever it is you were training to do. Needing all your skills right now is an illusion, trust me after a while you run out of interesting things to train.
As the Taoists say, "The journey is the reward".
However, for the sake of comedy, I am going to play the devil's advocate and talk about the awesome advantages of skill reassignment!
WARNING: Incoming sarcasm.
By allowing skills to be readily reassigned bitter veteran players, like myself, who have 60m, 80m, 120m, and higher SP will be able to easily respec to the FOTM setup. Gone would be the days of having to worry about training for new fleet doctrines, because I could just respec to whatever the FC orders that minute and be the best insert role here you've ever seen.
Not just that, but if we combine this awesome skill reassignment ability with Mobile Depots and Carrier / Orca hangers, the elite PVP possibilities are endless. Think of the awesome Youtube videos that could be made! A bold new era of elite PVP would be at hand, one which is rightfully inaccessible to those plebian noobs who don't have the SP to take advantage of it.
I hope you can see the problems with these kinds of proposals. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
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