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Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
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Posted - 2014.04.03 08:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to see the ability to delete skill points from skills already trained in order to gain those skill points in order to be distributed to other areas either on that same character or on one of the other 2 characters within your account. This is currently possible technically as I remember being given skill points to use when there were technical issues in the past, and was also given skill points for having Destroyers and Battlecruisers trained to V just before they brough in racial training for each of those areas.
Limitations would be only could do it once a year (like a remap) and cost would be 1 plex.
Why: I am sure it is the same with a lot of people in that when first starting EvE our training plans were all over the place, training anything on a whim and a fancy rather than being focused on particular areas such as having an indy character and a pvp character (for example).
Additionally with skills we donGÇÖt need/want as baggage on our main characters the cost to upgrade our clones once podded in PVP goes up, if we have the ability to GÇ£tidy upGÇ¥ our character training sheet that would at least enable us to transfer sp to another toon in order to reduce the cost of upgrading clones in such a loss.
For example I would like this toon to be more pvp focused, I have all racial frigates to V am aiming to get all racial cruisers to V to. But at the same time I also have a hell of a lot of science skills on this toon which I would like to move to another one of my account characters
The benefit to CCP is that it is an isk sink for players wanting to tidy their characters training tree and for players it enables them to repair bad training choices or even changes the focus on their characters.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
19
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
there has been several threads made on the request of getting skillpoints back for several reasons but all of them have been shot down by other players cos they see this as a method of pay2win and that the mistakes we made in the past we should still be stuck with them |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are always going to be people with different opinions. I can't see how it would be a pay to win situation though, Even if it was allowed only once per character at the cost of 1 plex it would be useful (I think).
If shot down (as I suspect it will be) then perhaps the tutorials should been a greater emphasis on the skillpoints and educate newer players on them in more detail so the issue potentially can be avoided. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
332
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think people get too hung up on skillpoints. Most people will only be using a subsetof skills at any given time and it is only those skills you need to really worry about. Those that you trained and no longer use are irrelevant, and you never know when an area of the game will be worked on that sudden;y draws you back to it.
I'm definitely of the view not to allow this, you made choices and stick by them. ultimately they will have little ipact on your current gamestyle in the end. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
19
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:If shot down (as I suspect it will be) then perhaps the tutorials should been a greater emphasis on the skillpoints and educate newer players on them in more detail so the issue potentially can be avoided.
I can see why that is an issue, I've ran through the tutorial missions a few times since it helps increase standings however they are limited to the amount they teach you which is why I believe ccp are currently holding some tutorials too to help players who may have issues like that
personally I'd love to reset some of the skill points I have on one of my characters cos he don't need certain skills which he was trained for at the start anymore for the current play style he currently does however I am fine with how things are even now. |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry
1154
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:I would like to see the ability to delete skill points from skills already trained in order to gain those skill points in order to be distributed to other areas either on that same character or on one of the other 2 characters within your account.
Well I would like to see people use the SEARCH function before posting bad ideas, but I guess that's not going to happen either.
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:or on one of the other 2 characters within your account
Seriously??? And you can't see how this can be abused???? I had to stop reading there.... so bad... I feel like I need a scalding hot shower.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Enjoy your shower...
[there is always at least one isn't there] I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
No |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16983
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
No. For all the reasons it's been no in the past.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tabyll Altol
Aww.. right in the Balls. that hurts
2
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
No. |
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
514
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
agreed the curent proposal is not good.
the ONLY case i would like to see this hapening however, is now, and only once.
why? you might ask.
simple:
with the last few updates, CCP made several skill that used to be usefull, kind of useless, like the exploration skills etc....
since the players have no control at all about this, it would make sense that CCP either refound thoses specific skills, or grant everyone the ability to "remap" (maybe for PLEX) but only ONCE / toon, and of course with no possibility to switch SP to another toon
IMAO, the best solution would be that CCP refound the very specific skills SP (and reset set skill to 0 indeed), so players cannot vantage this to actually remap completely unrelated skills.
this way, ppl still wanting to use them can, and those who get "screwed" (cause yes, that is what happen for explo) of their SP investment, can at least get back the weeks / month worth of raining that CCP stole from them |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3813
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fixed your post.
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:I would like to see the ability to Search the Forums from threads already posted in order to view repeated ideas in order to stop incessantly repeating the threads on that same topic or on one of the other 2 million similar threads This is currently possible technically as a search function is provided to use when there were technically capable posters in the past, and was also utilized by competent posters for having informed, well rounded ideas just before they posted pros and cons in a balanced manner for each of those areas.
Limitations on your forum capabilities are understandable, but you need to improve.
Why: I am sure it is the same with a lot of people in that when first starting reading our forums were all over the place, posting anything on a whim and a fancy rather than being focused on particular areas such as having competent, well informed ideas (see Op for example).
Additionally with threads we donGÇÖt need/want as baggage on our F&I Froums increases the cost to find quality ideas here goes up, if we have the ability to GÇ£tidy upGÇ¥ these forums that would at least enable us to transfer quality ideas to the CSM and CCP in order to reduce the cost of disseminating such information.
For example I would like this thread to be more intelligently focused, I have a thorough understanding of why SP transfer is terrible for the game. But at the same time I also have a hell of a lot of annoyance, and I would like the Op to search rather than move the discussion to another thread of the exact same topic
The benefit to CCP is that it reduces the time sink for players wanting to repeat the same asinine ideas and for players it enables them to understand bad concept choices or even changes the focus on their arguments.
TL;DR; Learn you forum search.
And NO, you shall not have skillpoint redistribution. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2122
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Posted - 2014.04.03 15:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bad idea so no.
First. You have failed to show that this is enough of a problem that it warrants such a huge change to the game (and yes this would be a huge paradigm shift to the game).
For example, given your current character, how much SP did you actually "waste" as a noob. My guess (as I did the same) is that if you honestly look, the amount of SP "wasted" is not that high. In looking at my worst toon (for which i went way down a road that ultimately I changed my mind about) it is still only about 2.5 million SP. Even at the default rate this is only a couple months of wasted training. In the long term of playing a game like eve it is essentially nothing.
Second, nobody has even talked about how this can be manipulated/abused, which it can be. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
335
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Posted - 2014.04.03 15:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.
The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
553
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Posted - 2014.04.03 15:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
http://gph.is/1oNAxpN Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf In Doubt....Do....Excessively. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
161
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Posted - 2014.04.03 18:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:http://gph.is/1oNAxpN
I completely agree. |
Sigras
Conglomo
712
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Posted - 2014.04.03 19:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Bad idea so no.
First. You have failed to show that this is enough of a problem that it warrants such a huge change to the game (and yes this would be a huge paradigm shift to the game).
For example, given your current character, how much SP did you actually "waste" as a noob. My guess (as I did the same) is that if you honestly look, the amount of SP "wasted" is not that high. In looking at my worst toon (for which i went way down a road that ultimately I changed my mind about) it is still only about 2.5 million SP. Even at the default rate this is only a couple months of wasted training. In the long term of playing a game like eve it is essentially nothing.
Second, nobody has even talked about how this can be manipulated/abused, which it can be.
These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll. Ill admit I didnt count the SP that I figured wasted and perhaps the once per year was not workable, perhaps a once only and not interchangeable between characters.
The idea was borne out of looking at my SP, the nerfs to exploration and what I consider to be nerfs to industry, CCP are making these changes and certain things that were skilled up for now feel redundant to me. Obviously the general concensus is a no, and thats fair enough. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sigras wrote:I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly.
That is a fair point. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Daoden
The Scope Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.04.03 20:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
5 year player joins noob corp on his 10 day alt, Xfers millions of SP to that 10 day old after being accepted in. Awoxes the crap out of newbies on a 10 day old character. I vote YES =) but seriously no |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2293
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Posted - 2014.04.03 20:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sigras wrote:I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly. What constitutes a mistake in training? Even doing something silly like training lasers when you fly Minmatar will at one point be usable. -á --á |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1072
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll.
Oh come on, you started this thread to troll, didn't you? If not, I refer you to my comment on your last brilliant idea. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.
The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself.
They do make your character unique but qat the same time almost every player i have spoken to had a traiing plan that was "all over the place" when they first joined the game. Once they join a decent corp then they get help and assistance with plans.
OK granted a 1 year remap maybe too much, but certainly a one off tweak would not be so bad. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll. Oh come on, you started this thread to troll, didn't you? If not, I refer you to my comment on your last brilliant idea.
Admiral, I dont troll, you may not believe that, and if so I cannot help that opinion. I still dont think that that was a bad idea, in fact all you seem to be able to do is come out with snide comments that dont really offer much to anything. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Sigras wrote:I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.
This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly. What constitutes a mistake in training? Even doing something silly like training lasers when you fly Minmatar will at one point be usable.
My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1072
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant.
Actions have consequences, welcome to Eve, please drive carefully. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant. Actions have consequences, welcome to Eve, please drive carefully.
Indeed, and people that have been around a while know that, when your new the learning curve is massive, is it not? or am I wrong? so it would be nice to go back and rectify that, if not, then it needs to be covered more in the tutorials. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16986
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Read here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
Here.
And here. For more reasons why it's always going to be NO.
TL:DR In the words of Tippia:
Tippia wrote:It removes the point of having skills to begin with. It removes the point of having attributes. It removes attribute implants from the game. It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups. It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character. It removes planning and choice and consequences. It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas. It kills character trading. It massively boosts older characters over new ones. It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3818
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Read here. Here.Here.Here.Here.And here. For more reasons why it's always going to be NO. TL:DR In the words of Tippia: Tippia wrote:It removes the point of having skills to begin with. It removes the point of having attributes. It removes attribute implants from the game. It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups. It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character. It removes planning and choice and consequences. It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas. It kills character trading. It massively boosts older characters over new ones. It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.
If you give a man a fish, you only feed him for a day!
@ Op, we aren't trolling you when we tell you to do a forum search before reposting one of the most commonly proposed ideas.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
484
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Posted - 2014.04.03 23:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
I cannot support this even though it would grant me a massive advantage.
I'm afraid that I feel this suggestion would make the training process and the choices we make in relation to it pointless not to mention the contribution it would make to the already lamentable amount of homogenisation that has occurred in EvE already.
I would rather see better tutorials and information for new players allowing them to make better and more intelligent choices. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
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