Advantage 4: If your opponent is a smaller ship that is sig and/or speed tanking you at within 17km, you must get rid of that -25% tracking penalty from the scorch ammo by switching to either Tier 1 crystals or faction ammo (the faction crystals truly are worth their price difference). Bear in mind that Conflag has the same range as multifreq, so there is no need to purchase and carry a set of 8 faction multifreq cyrstals

Ab + Long Point on destroyers is generally a bad fit on most destroyers IMO, you have absolutely no range control against frigates and they will either be able to get under your guns, scram kite you, long point kite you, ab speed tank your missiles, or simply disengage if they're losing. Sometimes it's decent such as on the Coercer as if a brawler is losing to you it may be too late to burn out to 28km to disengage, however it is so easy to speed tank lasers.

That's a broad generalisation. As long as you can hit to max point range effectively then your own speed is irrelevant. Ships kiting missiles is another matter - but there are rigs etc. to help with that.

The only issue is if you are slow and long range, people can disengage much more easily due to your lack of tackle.

As long as you can hit to max point range effectively then your own speed is irrelevant

The only issue is if you are slow and long range, people can disengage much more easily due to your lack of tackle.

So which is it.


(it's a rhetorical question btw).

Ab + Long Point on destroyers is generally a bad fit on most destroyers IMO, you have absolutely no range control against frigates and they will either be able to get under your guns, scram kite you, long point kite you, ab speed tank your missiles, or simply disengage if they're losing. Sometimes it's decent such as on the Coercer as if a brawler is losing to you it may be too late to burn out to 28km to disengage, however it is so easy to speed tank lasers.

Nice guide, although I agree with Gregor above me: some of these fits will only work against PvE fit targets.

Most of these long range AB/Long Point dessie's will die horribly to most brawler frigate's, or even any MWD frigate's since you have no way of shutting down the MWD with a Disruptor. Mostly since you have no way to prevent them from coming to you. I would actually only pair a Long Point with a MWD on anything smaller than Cruiser-sized hulls.

I would fly a catalyst with a full rack of blasters, a AB and a scram. This way you would do 400+ DPS easily while being able to maintain range to your target. (unless your are up against a webbing ship or a dual prop frigate which may still outrun you)

Conflag has a massive tracking penalty making it useless in that specific situation when compared to MF. Conflag should only be used against bigger/low angular targets where the tracking is not an issue

Ab + Long Point on destroyers is generally a bad fit on most destroyers IMO, you have absolutely no range control against frigates and they will either be able to get under your guns, scram kite you, long point kite you, ab speed tank your missiles, or simply disengage if they're losing. Sometimes it's decent such as on the Coercer as if a brawler is losing to you it may be too late to burn out to 28km to disengage, however it is so easy to speed tank lasers.

Agree'd - my general rule is to try and get as much range out of close range weapons as possible. Dual-Prop +Scram also helps.

. Also, having everything have the option to disengage you is quite an annoying issue, you'll have so many targets run away, it is incredibly frustrating.

Also, you should probably stress that the combination of long point with AB generally is destined to fail

I've killed countless cruisers and bc's and buffer BB's gate camping without propulsion mods with long point AB dessies. Choose one of the active tanking vessels like the Corm for this job. The short point dual rep Dragoon also does well against cap users. I've killed zelaots with them.

AB fit Zealot, sure. Non prop mod fail fit ships, sure. Approach hitting eager RvB newbies, sure. An actually decent fitted pvp ship with a pilot who has higher brain functions? No, not happening.

How do MWD zealots use prop when neuted out by a dragoon?

PL often employed propless and AB zealots in doctrines during the Providence invasion. People started mimicing the buffer fitted Zealots and sat at zero on gates.

AB + long point generally isn't logical to do.

The Dragoon fits in the guide are short point. The Zealot is dead.

Wait, what?


you: "here's some strategies to use, AB + long point"
us: " uhm, generally that'll just suck unless you run into idiots"
you: "nuhuh, lookie here, in this specific scenario a dragoon will kill a zealot for sure!"
me: "uhm no, not really, you only have 2 mid slots so he'll just burn away from you and nuke you, unless of course it's an aforementioned idiot"
you: "but the Dragoon has a scram so he doesn't get away!"
me: "what? I thought you were trying to validate your choice of fitting a long point?"

We comment on your choices to combine long points with AB and state it's not all that hot. You reply that it's great and prove that to us by using a fit that uses a scram?

Do you even logic?

Because you are discussing them in solo/1v1 situations. They have their role in a frigate/dessie roam. Primary to hold down BB's and certain BC's. You're out of web range and the big guns can barely touch you, and unless they are fit for speed, even their MWD can't outrun you so long as you overheat your AB.

You frigate/destroyer buddies will be weaving in to apply their damage (and a scram/web) and they will weave out when they take too much damage. While they are weaving out, your Long Point keeps him pinned indefinitely.

The guide even warns about people with "1v1 tunnel vision."

That's you.

So your "I killed this and this, look it's awesome" should be read as "the fleet I'm in killed it and I leeched onto the killmail with my long point". Noted.

The Afterburner Long Point Destroyer is perhaps the best destroyer class for a beginner to use, but it's not a solo ship, it's a gang ship you use on a frigate roam. Your goal is to speed and sig tank and prevent your target from warping off the field. Preferably you want to have either a medium tank or as much dps as you can, do not do both. Most new players should be able to mimic these fittings with tier 1 mods if they do not have the skills to fit the optimal tech 2 mods.

Your buddies in fleet will often be applying webs and scrams (short points), but since they are frigates/dessies themselves, they will often have to abandon field temporarily either repair or re-approach. It's during this period that your Long Point shines, because it keeps him tackled, and since you're out of web range, you need not worry about having your movement impaired. When one of your buddies leaves the field, another one of your buddies should be moving in for the short point and/or web, while your Long Point keeps him tackled during this transition.[

Yes well, good luck with your 800m/s non-scram ship. Just don't tell newbies to use it unless they're blobbing the **** out of someone or are killing PVE fits.

Any ship that you can maintain a stable orbit around with an AB is obviously a bigger/low angular target.

How does one get under 75mm rails or small pulse or rockets?

Does anyone think before they type here?