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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Doc Brown
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Posted - 2006.05.10 03:54:00 -
[31]
The way I see this is thus:
People can pay extra for the built in chat, or they can continue to use the present method.
If done properly, we should (in theory) want to pay the extra for the in-game chat because of it's excellent intergation with the present Eve engine and with the upcomming gang improvements.
If it's a hack onto the system it'll fail as the free (Teamspeak and others) solution will end up being the one that's used.
Doc _________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Frezik
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Posted - 2006.05.10 04:07:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Frezik Actually, I'd like to see voice chat fully integrated into the game to the point where there are game mechanics setup to make it possible to either evesdrop or disrupt an enemy fleet's communication (perhaps as a new use for the hacking skill). Of course, you'd be banned from using TS or Ventrillo by the TOS.
The EVE EULA/TOS has operated on the general principle that they can restrict the use of any program that directly interacts with the client, but they can't dictate what you can do with outside programs.
Aside from the fact that it would be wrong, it's completely unenforceable. And even if it WERE possible to detect it, how would they determine whether you're using it for EVE or just general conversation?
It just wouldn't work.
Oh, I agree. I still dream about it. It seems like there's this whole area of warfare that is being cut off to us. ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
Novemb3r
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Posted - 2006.05.10 04:29:00 -
[33]
In every game i've ever played that had in-game voice, people always used the TS/Vent option anyway. In game voice just never seems to be as good.
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Kornelia Shedim
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Posted - 2006.05.10 05:12:00 -
[34]
I read the press release and I think it sounds like a great idea. I'm going to keep an open mind about the service and will wait to see how it works.
Here is a small wish list of feature I would like to see in addition to the feature that were listed in the press release:
1. Allow individual users to block hearing annoying people on the channel.
2. A visual indicator on the GUI showing who is talking. Could either be an idicator right on the person's avatar in the chat room, or perhaps even a pop-up graphic in a noticable area of the screen with the user's avatar, name, and a speaker icon denoting a voice chat coming through.
2a. If the popup graphic is used, also have an option so that the location of the person talking is also indicated in the graphic if they are in your gang, corp, or alliance.
3. I would like to be able to listen in on a channel yet be talking in another. This would be great for having a command channel where the gangleaders get orders. Then they can pass on the instructions to those under them.
4. Mandatory Push-to-Talk mode!! Perhaps even a small beep or tone when a user un-keys their mic so people know the channel is open.
5. Here's an interesting option I saw the TS3 wishlist. An option to send the audio from the chatroom to another port on the soundcard so I can hear it in my headset, and let the game's sound still come through my speakers. This one is really wishful thinking, but I think it could be possible to pull off.
If they do a good job about integrating it, and it gives good sound quality, I would certainly use it. But until it comes out and we can actually test it, I'll remain confident that CCP won't do a half-assed job on it.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.05.10 05:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Frezik
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Frezik Actually, I'd like to see voice chat fully integrated into the game to the point where there are game mechanics setup to make it possible to either evesdrop or disrupt an enemy fleet's communication (perhaps as a new use for the hacking skill). Of course, you'd be banned from using TS or Ventrillo by the TOS.
The EVE EULA/TOS has operated on the general principle that they can restrict the use of any program that directly interacts with the client, but they can't dictate what you can do with outside programs.
Aside from the fact that it would be wrong, it's completely unenforceable. And even if it WERE possible to detect it, how would they determine whether you're using it for EVE or just general conversation?
It just wouldn't work.
Oh, I agree. I still dream about it. It seems like there's this whole area of warfare that is being cut off to us.
Mmm...might be interesting to see highly disciplined gangs operating under complete radio silence...but I like having freely available voice comms better, I'm rather chatty.
Originally by: Kornelia Shedim 2. A visual indicator on the GUI showing who is talking. Could either be an idicator right on the person's avatar in the chat room, or perhaps even a pop-up graphic in a noticable area of the screen with the user's avatar, name, and a speaker icon denoting a voice chat coming through.
2a. If the popup graphic is used, also have an option so that the location of the person talking is also indicated in the graphic if they are in your gang, corp, or alliance.
3. I would like to be able to listen in on a channel yet be talking in another. This would be great for having a command channel where the gangleaders get orders. Then they can pass on the instructions to those under them.
Hm, both of those sound interesting... -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Jarnis McPieksu
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Posted - 2006.05.10 05:53:00 -
[36]
I agree that this 'service' will be useless.
Voice comms works only if everyone can get it. The barrier to break out the Visa for extra fees is so high, that I predict this to be utterly useless. Few people will pay, then notice nobody else uses it, rest of the world continues with existing TS/Ventrilo servers, and the feature flops.
The fact that it'll be part of the client already kills it pretty badly - there's numerous situations where you want to have people in your voice comms that are logged out of the game... ...and if getting to voice comms requires you to be logged into the gameworld, it's strictly worse than current TS/Ventrilo implementation.
Also voice comms rock that you can tell everyone what happened if you dropped out of the game (client crashed on jump? You can inform people on TS/Vent, not so on EVE client voice comms...)
Nice idea, doomed to fail. Sorry. - Jarnis McPieksu Industrial Operative, Beagle Corp
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.05.10 05:56:00 -
[37]
New Toy >> Bugfix
Wanna bet you wont be able to turn off warpdrive sound when you have that premium service active? --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2006.05.10 06:20:00 -
[38]
one of the great things imo about EVE is that it doesn't pull this kinda of stunt...so far...
this is along the same lines of money = enhanced gameplay in EVE, integrated voicechat, better textures, what's next, RL cash = isk? in some ways, that's what's happening here, you're offering players a service that will enhance their abilities to play for RL cash.
not cool, though if it was universal like Kitty suggests, that'd be fine.
damn sig hijack!!11!
Signature removed. Max filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Eldo ([email protected]) |
Nefera Sen
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Posted - 2006.05.10 06:24:00 -
[39]
This needs dev clarification ASAP.
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Phelan Lore
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Posted - 2006.05.10 06:30:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Phelan Lore on 10/05/2006 06:30:39 If coms were open to everyone, it'd be fun to ransom over coms.
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2006.05.10 06:39:00 -
[41]
What's the point?
TS and ventrilo both run easily in the background, consuming little resources. They don't crash or anything... So, if you are in combat, and you CTD - voice comms lost. Got multiple accounts? Going to want to pay for voice comms on all of them that you use? Nope... Seperate application ftw. --------
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.10 07:27:00 -
[42]
...
Should have been given free. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Corporate Consultation Services |
Mike Spike
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Posted - 2006.05.10 07:50:00 -
[43]
Really bad idea.
I hope we won't see something like 'If you don't have premium service, you can't join us.' in recruitment threads. I keep using my current voice com and hope my alliance and other people, who visit our alliance server regularily, too. If that was forbidden due to the strange ideas of a marketing genius, it would be the worst eve joke ever.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:00:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mike Spike Really bad idea.
I hope we won't see something like 'If you don't have premium service, you can't join us.' in recruitment threads.
We already do see something like that. Many corps won't entertain anyone who doesn't use TS. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Kitty O'Shay
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:07:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr We already do see something like that. Many corps won't entertain anyone who doesn't use TS.
That's the whole point!
Getting TS/vent is just downloading a free program and putting in the server info. With a premium service, you have to tell your corp member to pay CCP more or not play.
Not ideal. --
Originally by: Mephysto come on, solo-mining in a 0.4 system? Its wrong NOT to pod you...
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kitty O'Shay
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr We already do see something like that. Many corps won't entertain anyone who doesn't use TS.
That's the whole point!
Getting TS/vent is just downloading a free program and putting in the server info.
Yay. Another player who happily discriminates against people for no better reason than they're physically handicapped. Isn't illegal discrimination supposed to be against the rules? Or can I start banning people from my corps because they have black skin? ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Micia
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Kitty O'Shay
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr We already do see something like that. Many corps won't entertain anyone who doesn't use TS.
That's the whole point!
Getting TS/vent is just downloading a free program and putting in the server info.
Yay. Another player who happily discriminates against people for no better reason than they're physically handicapped. Isn't illegal discrimination supposed to be against the rules? Or can I start banning people from my corps because they have black skin?
Eh?
I'm not quite following this train(wreck) of logic. _______
An EVE Gathering Tokyo 07 |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Micia Eh?
I'm not quite following this train(wreck) of logic.
At least you can read. Try following things on TS when you can't hear. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Jonathan Davis
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:24:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Jonathan Davis on 10/05/2006 08:24:36
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Kitty O'Shay
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr We already do see something like that. Many corps won't entertain anyone who doesn't use TS.
That's the whole point!
Getting TS/vent is just downloading a free program and putting in the server info.
Yay. Another player who happily discriminates against people for no better reason than they're physically handicapped. Isn't illegal discrimination supposed to be against the rules? Or can I start banning people from my corps because they have black skin?
Maybe its just the fact I still haven't woken up prpoerly yet, but I have *no* clue where you managed to dig up that accusation Care to explain?
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Algey
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Micia Eh?
I'm not quite following this train(wreck) of logic.
At least you can read. Try following things on TS when you can't hear.
The problem here is that if people type instructions in combat they are guaranteed to be slower and less effective than people who use voice comms.
Yes there is an element of discrimination based on ability here, however I do not see it as being the same as discrimination based on colour.
The colour of a person does not affect their ability to function in a gang, whereas having impared hearing (or speaking no English in an English speaking corp) does.
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Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Kitty O'Shay
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr We already do see something like that. Many corps won't entertain anyone who doesn't use TS.
That's the whole point!
Getting TS/vent is just downloading a free program and putting in the server info.
Yay. Another player who happily discriminates against people for no better reason than they're physically handicapped. Isn't illegal discrimination supposed to be against the rules? Or can I start banning people from my corps because they have black skin?
Woah dude, voice comms is unfortunately essential for certain pvp ops. Some corps only accept people in certain timezones, others only accept people who only want to role play. Not accepting only people who are unable/unwilling to use voice comms is nothing like racism, you implying it is ludicrous.
[Art of War][- V -] |
So'Kar
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Posted - 2006.05.10 08:47:00 -
[52]
If you can't add something to eve for monthly fee, then don't add it.
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.05.10 10:57:00 -
[53]
i would advise CCP to stay the **** away from integrating voice chat into EvE
first of, it's so easy to get it wrong, and come up with a flawed voice chat that's more of a nuisance then a advantage.
2nd, do we need function that's obviously vital in fleet combat running on the same servers that already have a hard time coping with just the game?
3rd, everybody that wants a voicechat is already using TS and Vent, wich accidentally also work while not logged in, so there's another advantage right there
4th, if ppl have to pay extra for something they already have for free, do you think they would do it?
i'd say focus your efforts on something more usefull
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.10 11:05:00 -
[54]
People will pay for it if its superior quality to the free alternatives i think.
But i do agree it should be included in the monthly cost for everybody. I wouldnt mind if they raised the monthly fee to cover it. Making it optional is bad.
They are planning to add gang related functions to the GUI though, so perhaps those will be sufficient and make voice not needed. But it doesnt seem likely.
--- The Eve Wiki Project |
Katamarino
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Posted - 2006.05.10 11:17:00 -
[55]
maybe we should have direct neural link comms, and CCP sends everyone little electrodes to plug into their brain
And a big egg to sit in...
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Fortior
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Posted - 2006.05.10 11:20:00 -
[56]
I can definately see some big advantages in gang and fleet organization, making it look truly military with a chain of command. For instance: Fleet A has X pilots. One pilot is admiral. He is gang leader of the 'command sub-gang', consisting of him and 4 vice admirals or something. Each of those 4 vice admirals command a sub-sub gang consisting of themselves and 4 squad leaders. Each of those squad leaders command 4 squad members. The admiral can talk to everyone with a push of a button, squad leaders with another, and with the vice admirals with another, you start to get the idea. Outside the chain of command would be scouts and special task forces that could talk to the admiral directly.
I can see some very interesting fleet battles if this was to become a reality. Instead of a gang of 100 pilots all concentrating fire on one ship, you might have 4 sub-gangs still part of the same fleet that all target their own primaries but still obey the command of the admiral.
Why doesn't this exist for TS/Vent you might ask? I think it's because those programs aren't built for this kind of tiered communications, and asking the players themselves to try and make it work sure asks for a lot of self restraint that I think many lack.
This idea of CCP's has a shedload of potential. We'll just have to see the way it's implemented.
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Syrec
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Posted - 2006.05.10 11:21:00 -
[57]
Will this eve voice chat provide channels for general chat? Like manufacturing chat, random chat.. solar system chat?
I might be become addicted to my headset if I could talk to everyone in a solar system and in random chat channel. That would be wicked and totally awsome!!
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Izo Azlion
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Posted - 2006.05.10 11:32:00 -
[58]
Take a step back and think how cool, and how much faster, it would be to ransom someones Freighter/HAC/Faction Ship over voice comms?
Might get a bit out of hand mind, but the potential for some funny sound files, and for some interesting fights, lies there.
Izo Azlion, Clan Wolf.
---
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Fredbob
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Posted - 2006.05.10 11:34:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Fredbob on 10/05/2006 11:35:21 Only way I'd pay more is:
It has ingame UI notificiation of who is speaking. I know the voices of friends but hey it'd be a nice touch for fleets (Edit: this is easy to do with the buddy system, you know, the face and nametag you get when your mate/enemy logs on). This is the only thing I can think of that TS/vent can't do (other than the tiered thing that just isn't going to happen, I expect TS3 will do it before this "Vivox" do)
No lag whatsoever. Private vent/TS don't suffer from the bandwidth munching of the many, so if an official one does then it's a step backwards.
Taken up by almost everyone. Simply put, if there is one person in your gang without it, you're better off on teamspeak.
I hope it's worthwhile, but seems like a non-priority tbh, the players happily provide for themselves atm so it's not something that needs time&money spent on it. ___________ ~Fredbob~
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Amira Silvermist
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Posted - 2006.05.10 11:35:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Phelan Lore Edited by: Phelan Lore on 10/05/2006 06:30:39 If coms were open to everyone, it'd be fun to ransom over coms.
Hehe, yea would be fun if you could talk in local and everybody on the current grid could hear you... (Would also be a reason to avoid Jita ) Removed signature image, resize to fit forum policy of 24000 bytes. Thanks =) - Daigon |
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