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[petition] Muninn needs to be looked at!

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Shumpoimp	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:31:00 - [1] I beleive this ship is supposed to be a pure bred artillery ship, yet I got a big problem with mine (and everyone else will do too), I cant fit 5 X 720MM guns without a reactor core unit. This ship hasnt got the ability to have a decent tank when loaded with these guns either...what I think NEEDS to be done to this ship is; 1. Extra medium slot for a shield booster OR increase targeting range/signature. 2. Bit more powercore please. 3. This is the wierd one, but I think CCP have mixed the vagabond and muninns bonus up, shouldnt the vagabond get a tracking bonus, and muninn get an accuracy falloff bonus? I havent seen an 'muninn' needs boosted thread yet though, so I'll probably get flammed. I'll give you lot my setup, maybe its my set that is completely wrong, so to make sure I ain't doing anything wrong when using artillery (support damage PVP role), this is my setup; 5 X 720MM Howitzer Artillery II - 17.7X damage mod, 6.18 ROF. 2 X Standard Launchers II - Defenders, Thermal Missiles. 2 X Sensor Boosters 1 X Tracking Computer II 1 X Reactor Control Unit II 3 X Gryostabilizer II 1 X Tracking Enhancher II 5 X Hornet II (Gun stats with tremor, 118KM optimal, Average DPS, 189.576) (Gun stats with quake, 36KM optimal, Average DPS, 316.297) (Gun stats with 3 X emp, 2 X fusion, 36KM/49KM optimal, Average DPS, 218.571)
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:34:00 - [2] Well, it certainly isn't the only ship that can't mount a full rack of the biggest weapon.
Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:38:00 - [3] The problem is that as chappy above me says, you probably shouldn't be able to mount a full rack of your most damaging weapons without a grid upgrade. However... As with all artillery, only the top grade is worth using. Its a serious problem because it means its near impossible to use a decent arty set-up with out grid mods. I would love to see the munin get SOMETHING to make it useable as more than a prettier (marginally) Ac rupture. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:41:00 - [4] Edited by: Gronsak on 13/05/2006 11:41:54 your looking at in in a wrong way look at the DPS it does over 6.5seconds, its like 630 DPS with emp!!! this ship imo is a great ship,if used correctly. warp in, target a t1 crusier, 6.5sec later dead crusier and warp out! its burst dmg is very nice! and imo its ok that you need a RCU to fit your biggest guns, since no HAC afaik can fit biggest long range guns + workable setup without a fitting mod -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:50:00 - [5] muninn is fine, it's medium (and large) artillery pg that needs to be looked at. it's all well and good needing a pg module to fit your guns and a usable setup, but the muninn can't even fit the guns :). Even with the rcu you'll still have trouble fitting something in those last 2 high slots.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Gronsak look at the DPS it does over 6.5seconds, its like 630 DPS with emp! ... thanks Gronsak for showing us that the best use of a muninn is between 0 and 6.5 seconds in emp range. Anyway, i'm nearly done with minmatar ships. Guess what I'm training for. NB.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Gronsak look at the DPS it does over 6.5seconds, its like 630 DPS with emp! ... thanks Gronsak for showing us that the best use of a muninn is between 0 and 6.5 seconds in emp range. Anyway, i'm nearly done with minmatar ships. Guess what I'm training for. NB. caldari?
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.05.13 11:56:00 - [8] Link to an old post about the muninn. Originally by: Sarmaul caldari? Gallente, I was already using them already for npc'ing anyway. NB.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Naughty Boy Link to an old post about the muninn. Originally by: Sarmaul caldari? Gallente, I was already using them already for npc'ing anyway. NB.
DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Naughty Boy Link to an old post about the muninn. Originally by: Sarmaul caldari? Gallente, I was already using them already for npc'ing anyway. NB. I've been caldari, wanted amarr, then wanted mini, then gallente... I cant make my mind up :S Originally by: Tuxford I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments.

twit brent	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:24:00 - [11] Same goes for blasters, you just cant fit your best guns. Zealot and eagle on teh other hand seem to be prety easy to fit.
DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: twit brent Same goes for blasters, you just cant fit your best guns. Zealot and eagle on teh other hand seem to be prety easy to fit. wait for kali I highlight wait Originally by: Tuxford I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:25:00 - [13] Originally by: twit brent Same goes for blasters, you just cant fit your best guns. Zealot and eagle on teh other hand seem to be prety easy to fit. wait for kali
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:29:00 - [14] Originally by: DeathWarrior Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: twit brent Same goes for blasters, you just cant fit your best guns. Zealot and eagle on teh other hand seem to be prety easy to fit. wait for kali I highlight wait btw deathwarrior, I beat you to it :) Linkage
Hast	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:42:00 - [15] jeezes Sarmaul Originally by: Sarmaul I WILL FIREBOMB CCP IF MINMATAR GET A T2 BATTLECRUISER WITH A ******* TARGET PAINTING BONUS
Kael D'mende	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:47:00 - [16] Edited by: Kael D''mende on 13/05/2006 12:49:23 Originally by: Naughty Boy .... Anyway, i'm nearly done with minmatar ships. Guess what I'm training for. NB. Ohhh no who will fight for minmatar then :O( Hehe stick to your guns mate, eventually ccp will give in and minmatar will rule amarr's ;o) to OP muninn is just fine, its a nasty arty ship, sure pg/cpu etc is always something we cant get enough of, but the ship works imho.. edit: forgot to comment on the muninn :O/ Regards. /Kael
Shumpoimp	Posted - 2006.05.13 12:48:00 - [17] I can actually fit most ships with thier biggest guns, but without tank, however muninn cannot fit the guns or a tank as well. And yes the dps is good, it cannot be altered as it would overpower this ship, but I want to have a bit of endurance as well. What do you all think about switching the Tracking bonus <> accuracy falloff bonus? (muninns bonus to vagabonds bonus, and vagabonds bonus to muninns bonus)
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Kael D'mende stick to your guns mate, eventually ccp will give in and minmatar will rule amarr's Gallente works better for nearly everything i do, save for very few minmatar ships. That doesn't mean that they are better at everything, just that the way the game works and given my constraints, it's best for me. Originally by: Shumpoimp I can actually fit most ships with thier biggest guns, but without tank, however muninn cannot fit the guns or a tank as well. You can fit a ok-ish setup with a rack of 720mm, a large shield extender, a pds t2 and a rcu t2. Nothing impressive, but with tremor it kinda works. Now, if t2 ammo wasn't so broken... Originally by: Shumpoimp What do you all think about switching the Tracking bonus <> accuracy falloff bonus? (muninns bonus to vagabonds bonus, and vagabonds bonus to muninns bonus) I like the bonuses as they are, falloff is good for AC's and optimal/tracking nice for artilleries. It doesn't work quite as good the other way around. NB.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:15:00 - [19] Fall-off still does work pretty well for Artillery, simply because of the long fall-off that artillery turrets have. With an optimal bonus, you end up with better range from the long range ammos, with Fall-off, you get better range for the short ranged ammos. Of course, if you're using T2 ammo, you're in kind of a bind, considering how screwed up Quake is atm. Harry Voyager
DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: DeathWarrior Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: twit brent Same goes for blasters, you just cant fit your best guns. Zealot and eagle on teh other hand seem to be prety easy to fit. wait for kali I highlight wait btw deathwarrior, I beat you to it :) Linkage lies Originally by: Tuxford I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments.

Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.05.13 17:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Tehyarec Well, it certainly isn't the only ship that can't mount a full rack of the biggest weapon. You referring to blasters? Thats gonna change after next patch. Minnies will be left out as usual. Petition signed. Ison's notches
Hamatitio	Posted - 2006.05.13 18:27:00 - [22] but 250's 650's and 1200's are getting a damage boost. Maybe that will make them somewhat worthwile, and have no need to fit the largest arty. --- Originally by: Wrangler ...why do you people always have to verbally assault each other over things that doesn't matter anyway?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Hamatitio but 250's 650's and 1200's are getting a damage boost. Maybe that will make them somewhat worthwile, and have no need to fit the largest arty.
Serj Darek	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:47:00 - [24] Edited by: Serj Darek on 13/05/2006 19:47:47 Originally by: Shumpoimp I can actually fit most ships with thier biggest guns, but without tank, however muninn cannot fit the guns or a tank as well. And yes the dps is good, it cannot be altered as it would overpower this ship, but I want to have a bit of endurance as well. What do you all think about switching the Tracking bonus <> accuracy falloff bonus? (muninns bonus to vagabonds bonus, and vagabonds bonus to muninns bonus) I think its a bad idea to switch the bonuses. If youre shooting with Tremor ammo your tracking sucks anyways, so that extra tracking comes in mighty handy. i use this in my med slots ("all" 3 of them ) 1x tracking comp 2 1x target painter 2 1x sensor booster 2 lows i have 3x gyrostab 2, 1x rcu 2 and 1x tracking enh/gyrostab 2. That gives me targeting range of ~109 km:s Optimal range with Tremor ~106 km:s (all gunnery skills to 5 regarding range and such, HAC level 5) I think tracking bonus should stay. Plus you can put serious amount of damage to cruisers with Quake at "close" range (optimal). Fix the Typhoon description! 3 years in the making!
Meridius	Posted - 2006.05.13 20:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 13/05/2006 11:41:54 your looking at in in a wrong way look at the DPS it does over 6.5seconds, its like 630 DPS with emp!!! Poor Grosnak that has to be the dumbest thing i've read today - _____
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.13 21:03:00 - [26] It's also got 2k armour, base. And does 1.4km/s under MWD. So what it if takes you a few more volleys to kill them when they can't CATCH you. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.05.13 21:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 13/05/2006 11:41:54 your looking at in in a wrong way look at the DPS it does over 6.5seconds, its like 630 DPS with emp!!! Poor Grosnak that has to be the dumbest thing i've read today woot my sleipnir does 1.3k dps over 7 seconds! Oh hang on... sgb C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2006.05.13 21:23:00 - [28] Having flown both, I can say absolutely without reservation that the falloff is many, many times more usefull on autocannons than the tracking is, so that bonus is fine on the vagabond .. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.13 21:32:00 - [29] mwd II muninn with quake still does 819.9674175m/s
fkingfurious	Posted - 2006.05.13 23:32:00 - [30] the muninn does have some serious fitting issues. As it is 3 mid 5 lows gives it the weakest potewntial tank of any HAC, its the same slot load out as a ruppy, its extra slot being a high slot, which is all well and good for a pure damage ship but it dsont get the grid increase it needs to use it. With 5 720 2's fitted, even if u leave the other 2 highs empty (effectively wasting it's extra HAC slot) it is still basically impossible to fit a tank. U need one rcu to fit the guns, but if u want to fit a medium armour rep u need another one, and with it's double armour resist hole the 2 low slots that leaves arent enuff to get decent resists. And sield tanking with 3 mids is just pointless. So to get the tank u need to drop a gun, but doing that means u might as well fly a ruppy. Even that wouldnt be so bad if it did HUGE amounts of damage but its damage over time wont beat a deimos, an ishtar, a cerb or probably even a zealot (never flown one so dont know). It's a horrible ship.

horan	Posted - 2006.05.14 01:30:00 - [31] Edited by: horan on 14/05/2006 01:30:02 the above poster had some great points. However we need a little formatting to get you all to read them: The muninn does have some serious fitting issues. As it is 3 mid 5 lows gives it the weakest potential tank of any HAC, it has the same slot load out as a ruppy and its extra slot is a high slot. This is all well and good for a pure damage ship but it doesnt get the grid increase it needs to use it. With 5 720 2's fitted, even if u leave the other 2 highs empty (effectively wasting it's extra HAC slot) it is still basically impossible to fit a tank. you need one rcu to fit the guns, but if you want to fit a medium armour rep ypu need another. With it's double armour resist hole the 2 low slots that leaves arent enough to get decent resists. Shield tanking with 3 mids is pointless, To get the tank u need to drop a gun, but doing that means you might as well fly a ruppy. Even that wouldnt be so bad if it did HUGE amounts of damage but its damage over time wont beat a deimos, an ishtar, a cerb or probably even a zealot (never flown one so dont know). It's a sad ship.
Kolhell	Posted - 2006.05.14 01:35:00 - [32] i was figuring the boost to lower grade artis would help this problem, but i saw sarmaul laughing at it so now im not so sure. im too lazy to do the math, so has anyone else out there looked at whether the damage boost makes them useful? ------------------------- bury the hatchet
horan	Posted - 2006.05.14 01:35:00 - [33] Originally by: Sarmaul mwd II muninn with quake still does 819.9674175m/s and is the size of a small small moon on its approach. would I npc in a muninn? yes would I pvp in a muninn? nah a plated ruppy does 8/10 of the same for 1/10 of the cost
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.05.14 01:56:00 - [34] Originally by: horan Originally by: Sarmaul mwd II muninn with quake still does 819.9674175m/s and is the size of a small small moon on its approach. would I npc in a muninn? yes would I pvp in a muninn? nah a plated ruppy does 8/10 of the same for 1/10 of the cost -Muninn has more PG than Rupture (950 vs 860) -Muninn has more CPU than Rupture (355 vs 325) -Muninn has more Gun slots than Rupture (5v4) -Muninn has more High Slots than Rupture (7v6) -Muninn has higher cap recharge than Rupture (268v357) -Muninn has longer targeting range than Rupture (55kmv45km) -Muninn has more Shield HP than Rupture (1406v1250) -Muninn has more Resistance to EM/Thermal than Rupture (75/60vs0/20) -Muninn has more Armor HP than Rupture (1781v1313) -Muninn has more Resistance to EM/Thermal than Rupture (92.5/67.5vs70/35) -Muninn has more agility than Rupture -Rupture has bigger drone bay (25vs30m3) -Muninn has bigger cargo bay (415vs300) Not much stuff that the rupture is better than the Muninn. The rupture has a lot of equal value than Muninn but the list above is what's better. If you ask me, all of that stuff that's better are very good things to be better ;) Now as far as not being able to fit full 720's on well yeah it sucks but seriously what else do you need in your low slots for sniping or long range platforms? I mean the Muninn and rupture both have 5 low slots. That's a decent amount of lows to fill a light tank with. I hardly ever tank for the main fact im sniping with my 720's. On the other hand you can use autocannons. Nothing is preventing you from using autocannons on the Muninn. Autocannons have great falloff and the rupture isn't exactly dead slow for using them. I've seen a number of great Autocannon rupture setups do massive damage and have great tanks. Autocannon is a really great gun compared to the blaster imho. So fitting it with our hacs is easy and still damaging. Only point I would agree with is ummm choosing a rupture over a muninn only for the fact of how costly HAC's are ;)
Enigmier	Posted - 2006.05.14 06:24:00 - [35] where most people are getting it wrong here is the fact they are wanting to fit an armor tank aswell as fitting a full rack of 720`s look at the resists people and then tell me armor is the way to go fit 4x pdu II`s and a Gyro II in the low slots, then you can fit you full rack of 720`s and mwd and a med sheild booster and sensor booster, that is enough of a tank for fighting at longer ranges, if you want to fit an armor tank then use autocannons. its a trade off, you cant have full damage and a good tank unless you sacrifice range and go in close
Nifel	Posted - 2006.05.14 06:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Enigmier where most people are getting it wrong here is the fact they are wanting to fit an armor tank aswell as fitting a full rack of 720`s look at the resists people and then tell me armor is the way to go fit 4x pdu II`s and a Gyro II in the low slots, then you can fit you full rack of 720`s and mwd and a med sheild booster and sensor booster, that is enough of a tank for fighting at longer ranges, if you want to fit an armor tank then use autocannons. its a trade off, you cant have full damage and a good tank unless you sacrifice range and go in close If the Muninn had 4 medslots I'd happily shield tank it. It's slot layout leans towards armor tank though. It's a bastard child that does nothing really really well. Add on top the problems with howitzers (fittings, tracking, dps) and you're actaully better off with a beam Zealot. Same range, can fit mwd + tank (although with a zealot you'll probably go with ab), better dps, better tracking. The only downside is less alphastrike but with a rof less than 3 seconds on heavy beams I'll gladly take it. "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Freya Jones	Posted - 2006.05.14 07:40:00 - [37] I build these things (blatant plug) and have tooled around in them a lot. I am not sure if I would PvP in one with a short range set up, but if you run AC, you can get a very nice armor tank on it. Hi Slots: 5x Dual 180mm II, 2x Arb. Assault Launchers Med SLots: tech2 10mn AB, Tracking Computer II, best named Web (non faction) Low Slots: Medium Armor Repairer II, Reactor Control Unit II, 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II, and two tech2 Energized Membranes (kinetic and explosive) Drone bay loaded with 5 tech2 light drones of various types... What I get out of the deal is a ship with a high end speed of about 520m/s, 6426 armor hp's (with HAC resists...), and no armor resists under 50%. And anything it gets close to dies, quickly. I suspect this setup wouldn't work for PvP, but I dont know, I dont test them that way. If you look at the way the NPC MinFleet ships work in combat, you will observe that the Stabbers all function at long range, with artillery and that Ruptures are used up close. I suspect that is the way we were intended to use these things, but being players, we have to do everything different :D
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.14 07:55:00 - [38] I got 4 of these, all differently fitted and all outclassed by the vagabond at anything else that isn't sniping.. I'll have to see how it performs when 650mm II are balanced but it might be fun to actually be able to fit 720mm II x5 without the need of a rcu... Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs
Shumpoimp	Posted - 2006.05.14 08:36:00 - [39] Cool so a lot of people agree about fitting issues with this ship, apart from the falloff bonus part, which I understand will be a bad idea I've now come into another problem with this ship, while I was out doing my job as support artillery barage, some nasty rocket crow chewed through me with ease, like I was a normal cruiser, I didnt realise my HAC was so vulnerable to kinetic damage , fortunatly I got 5 light drones, it warped away soon after. This ship definatly needs some slots for tanking, please CCP :) The ruptures such a good artillery ship, you dont fit a tank on that I admit, but its a t1 cruiser, I thought the t2 version should be miles ahead of its predecessor.
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.05.14 08:41:00 - [40] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Originally by: horan Originally by: Sarmaul mwd II muninn with quake still does 819.9674175m/s and is the size of a small small moon on its approach. would I npc in a muninn? yes would I pvp in a muninn? nah a plated ruppy does 8/10 of the same for 1/10 of the cost -Muninn has more PG than Rupture (950 vs 860) -Muninn has more CPU than Rupture (355 vs 325) -Muninn has more Gun slots than Rupture (5v4) -Muninn has more High Slots than Rupture (7v6) -Muninn has higher cap recharge than Rupture (268v357) -Muninn has longer targeting range than Rupture (55kmv45km) -Muninn has more Shield HP than Rupture (1406v1250) -Muninn has more Resistance to EM/Thermal than Rupture (75/60vs0/20) -Muninn has more Armor HP than Rupture (1781v1313) -Muninn has more Resistance to EM/Thermal than Rupture (92.5/67.5vs70/35) -Muninn has more agility than Rupture -Rupture has bigger drone bay (25vs30m3) -Muninn has bigger cargo bay (415vs300) Not much stuff that the rupture is better than the Muninn. The rupture has a lot of equal value than Muninn but the list above is what's better. If you ask me, all of that stuff that's better are very good things to be better ;) Now as far as not being able to fit full 720's on well yeah it sucks but seriously what else do you need in your low slots for sniping or long range platforms? I mean the Muninn and rupture both have 5 low slots. That's a decent amount of lows to fill a light tank with. I hardly ever tank for the main fact im sniping with my 720's. On the other hand you can use autocannons. Nothing is preventing you from using autocannons on the Muninn. Autocannons have great falloff and the rupture isn't exactly dead slow for using them. I've seen a number of great Autocannon rupture setups do massive damage and have great tanks. Autocannon is a really great gun compared to the blaster imho. So fitting it with our hacs is easy and still damaging. Only point I would agree with is ummm choosing a rupture over a muninn only for the fact of how costly HAC's are ;) The point is not that the rupture is as good as the munin, the point is the rupture does 75-80% of the damage of a munin for about 50 mil less. That's if you get the munin close to cost. sgb C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.

Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.05.14 14:36:00 - [41] Price is the only diffrence, that's not a good factor to say the rupture is better. Muninn is a fact better than rupture being it is the rupture but beefed up.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.14 14:38:00 - [42] Originally by: smallgreenblur The point is not that the rupture is as good as the munin, the point is the rupture does 75-80% of the damage of a munin for about 50 mil less. That's if you get the munin close to cost. sgb This is probably true, but then again this seems to be true for alot of things. Those extra percentages are what makes people pay huge for tech 2 items etc. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.14 14:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Enigmier where most people are getting it wrong here is the fact they are wanting to fit an armor tank aswell as fitting a full rack of 720`s look at the resists people and then tell me armor is the way to go fit 4x pdu II`s and a Gyro II in the low slots, then you can fit you full rack of 720`s and mwd and a med sheild booster and sensor booster, that is enough of a tank for fighting at longer ranges, if you want to fit an armor tank then use autocannons. its a trade off, you cant have full damage and a good tank unless you sacrifice range and go in close I have 1 word for you: eagle
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.05.14 14:45:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim McGregor This is probably true, but then again this seems to be true for alot of things. Those extra percentages are what makes people pay huge for tech 2 items etc. Except that the improvement of the vagabond over the stabber, ishtar over the vexor, zealot over the omen, makes them much more worth flying over their t1 counterpart given the money and the skills. Price aside, muninn isn't that much better than the rupture. It certainly isn't better at close range than the vagabond. And if i'm going to snipe i'll be nearly as good with a rupture. If autocannons didn't use so much ammo and artillery didn't have such poor dps it could nearly be a good npc'ing, but as it is... not impressed. NB.
Mallik Hendrake	Posted - 2006.05.14 16:40:00 - [45] The problem with Hac gun balance is that there're some hacs with sexy bonuses and 4 guns, and some with mediocre bonuses and 5 guns. The eagle for instance can fit a great setup with 4 x 250s and 2 x assault launchers (even 2 x heavies will fit with pds IIs). The zealot can fit 4 of any gun it wants and a good setup. The muninn and deimos require 5 slots instead of 4, and therefore they can't fit **** all. Even mid-class guns (ions or 200ms for the deimos) fail for the deimos (and suck for the muninn). My suggestion is to up the grid 10% or so on all the 5-gun hacs. They deserve it. Maybe 15%. -------------------------------------------- "A plan is just a list of things that don't happen." -- Parker, _The Way of the Gun_ Mallik Hendrake E X O D U S [I do not speak for E X O or IRON]
Shumpoimp	Posted - 2006.05.15 11:29:00 - [46] On the plus side muninn makes an excellent AC ship, but I want to use artys :( But yea as most of us keep saying there isnt much difference in muninn and rupture compared to the other ships. Ishtar is way WAY ahead of the vexor Vagabond pulls away easily from the stabber Zealot very good ship, omen not sooo good. Eagle, substancially different from moa. Cerberus is way ahead of caracal. List goes on, apart from the diemos which a few people complain to be slight weak on powergrid.
Oriodus	Posted - 2006.05.15 12:54:00 - [47] I've used this ship for about 6 months and i've had no problems with it except for my own limitations. At first i had issues fitting it out in terms of either tank or gank but over the past few weeks i've grown to love it even more due to my skills becoming more specialised for assault ships. In my opinion you need to specialise in HACs to fly and fit them efficiently. I've lost 2 within the 6 month period i've been using them but that is all part of learning how to use them - as with any other ship. At present i use 2 Muninn's - one for pvp and one for pve, both have their strong points and both have their weak but in comparison to the a Rupture it is far superior on both counts. The resistances and damage output with the appropriate skills and modules give it a huge leap from it's T1 counterpart. I dont have a huge amount of SP but my setup for pvp using all T2 equipment and ammo gives it a very powerful edge - on par with a sniping Eagle in my opinion. The price of the ship does not reflect the ships abilities - thats just the market trend. Yes the powergrid is a little limited for a full rack of 720's but you can't have everything without sacrificing something in return - in my setup i sacrifice a tank for the ability to hit hard at long distance. I'm sure others who have used this ship in pvp successfully would agree in at least some of what i have said - others will think otherwise...but everyone is allowed their opinion.
Raid	Posted - 2006.05.15 15:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Freya Jones I build these things (blatant plug) and have tooled around in them a lot. I am not sure if I would PvP in one with a short range set up, but if you run AC, you can get a very nice armor tank on it. Hi Slots: 5x Dual 180mm II, 2x Arb. Assault Launchers Med SLots: tech2 10mn AB, Tracking Computer II, best named Web (non faction) Low Slots: Medium Armor Repairer II, Reactor Control Unit II, 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II, and two tech2 Energized Membranes (kinetic and explosive) Drone bay loaded with 5 tech2 light drones of various types... What I get out of the deal is a ship with a high end speed of about 520m/s, 6426 armor hp's (with HAC resists...), and no armor resists under 50%. And anything it gets close to dies, quickly. I suspect this setup wouldn't work for PvP, but I dont know, I dont test them that way. If you look at the way the NPC MinFleet ships work in combat, you will observe that the Stabbers all function at long range, with artillery and that Ruptures are used up close. I suspect that is the way we were intended to use these things, but being players, we have to do everything different :D QFT I figured out long ago that arties on a muninn just isnt worth it. AC on a muninn however is extremely powerful. I can take on any amar ship with no problems in a close range muninn. 220's and a 1600m rolled tung ftw! Until the allow us to fit a full rack of arties and a decent tank im sticking with AC's... i suggest more people try it before you give up on the ship. Originally by: Bared Bel'Medar Its a rare dialect called "dou'chay'ba'gh"... frequently used by members of this forum community. I was under the assumption you spoke it
Fredbob	Posted - 2006.05.15 15:19:00 - [49] Reasons to buy a muninn: cheaper than vaga, some people won't engage a vaga but would a muninn - so you get more fights Yeh it makes an ok autocannon ship, but hey you can fly a vagabond, THE best autoship ingame! Personally, my muninn gathers dust while I have a whale of a time flying around in a vagabond scaring people ___________ ~Fredbob~
Saladin	Posted - 2006.05.15 16:01:00 - [50] Edited by: Saladin on 15/05/2006 16:01:47 I use muninns alot (have the bpo) and have flown vagabonds and zealots. The Muninn comes no where close to those ships. Sure I can do a rupture-muninn comparison with useless statistics, but those numbers mean nothing unless you also post information for stabber-vagabond, omen-zealot caracal-cerberus...etc. The Muninn gets only one extra high slot while the others get multiple mediums and lows. People often say that the muninn detractors want something that will fit all the big guns and tank at the same time. This is not true. You see if you want to use the Muninn as a long range shooter (useless since Eagle will outperform in every respect), then you need 720's and you need gyro's and tracking enhancers to make up for the ship's sub-standard bonuses (Zealots, vagabonds and others get cumulative damage increase bonuses between cruiser skill bonus and HAC bonus). This setup only works nicely if you leave 2/7 of your highslots empty. The alternative is to use it as an AC platform, but the ship does not have the speed other HACs do and will be outperformed. I can see two possible solutions for this problem, turn the 2 non-gun high slots into low slots, or give the ship extra powergrid. ----

Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.05.15 16:47:00 - [51] Well in question the OP had was weather or not this has been brought up before and yes it has. I the Muninn has this set amount of PG to it can't thank and have a full rack of arties. As it is I belive the ship is fine. By no means is the ship good for pvp. It lacks the mids to tack and speed, as mentioned. However I think the ship is great for pve. I currently run a pretty weird set up that I will not disclose because I know there is better out thier. But I have also set the muninn up for what I think its ment for if you are using the Arties. Full rack of 720t2 and 2 heavey lauchers. Now with maxed skills this will require atleast 1 RCU t2 and 1 PDU t2. POssible 2 RCU t2's sorry as I said I'm using a differnt set up now. Now the 3 lows you have left I put 3 gyro's t2. As for the mid slots I put in a very light shield tank. Invonerable and small booster and AB I can't remeber is a MWD can fit but in pve you generally don't need a MWD so I don;t knwo why you would want one anyway. So this set up with droes can cut though lost of ships pretty quick, generally quick enough so that you can distroy most ships before damage is into Armor. So for this type of job I think it does fine. Yes there are ships that do it better. But hey I like it
Nafri	Posted - 2006.05.15 16:51:00 - [52] Its a ship which can barly fit 4 of its 7 highslots and fitting AC is wasting the 10% optimal range bonus Summertime - Campingtime!


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