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Lasers Vs Rails (TUX PLEASE READ)

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bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:08:00 - [1] Ok for this comparison im just looking at the guns. Please keep in mind that the geddons bonus gives a 33.33% bonus to dmg/s while the thron gives 25%. all stats are taken from the tech II version of the gun. Tachyon 425 Optimal 53km 58km damage mod 5.4 3.3 ROF 12.5 9.56 DMG/s 0.432 0.3451 falloff 20 24 tracking 0.0139 0.009625 Mega B 350mm Optimal 48km 42km damage mod 3.6 2.4 ROF 9 7.31 DMG/s 0.4 0.32831 falloff 16 20 tracking 0.0153 0.01667 DHB D250mm Optimal 42km 58km damage mod 2.4 1.8 ROF 7.2 5.85 DMG/s 0.324 0.307 falloff 12 12 tracking 0.0175 0.0175 Tachyon vs 425. 425's have a better optimal than tachyons making it better at EXTREME ranges. Other than that the tachyon does heaps more damage than the 425 with better tracking and less falloff. The tachyon has a much better damage mod allowing the geddon to smash the megathron in the dmg/s department aswell as the instant dmg. If your not taking too much fire ie. sniping, the geddon with tachyons will easily outperform the megathron. Megabeam vs 350's For some stupid reason CCP decided that rails range advantage ends here. For no reason at all lasers now have the better optimal range which combined with better damage and tracking realy make 350's inferior in just about every way. Dual heavy beams Vs dual 250 rails Ok things get worse here. Despite 250mm's beating heavy beams at range with the cruiser class modules, dual heavy beams smash dual 250mm rails. The dual heavy beams beat the rails by nearly 45% when it should be the rails that have the longer range. Again tracking and damage are way better in the laser. CCP WTF is with this? an armageddon with dual heavy beams does prety much the same damage as a 425mm railthron and is much easier to fit, not to mention the much better tracking. Why they hell are megabeams outranging 350's? and dual heavy beams smashing dual 250mm's when their cruiser cruiser equivilent are so different. Please look into these stats and tell us why you screwed over rails so bad. Instead of giving tachyons a boost in damage maybe you should look at guns that people dont use because they suck. Tachyons right now have a role as an insta damage ship for getting big bursts in fleet battles. If that isnt a good enough reason maybe you should rethink artillery entirely. I see armageddons fit tachyons all the time but im yet to see a megathron with 350's or dual 250's. CCp your giving a boost to a weapon no one asked for. Fix railguns because right now there is just no reason to use them.
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:10:00 - [2] ok the spacing is all messed up there should be a gap between the stats that seems to have dissapeared when i posted it.
keepiru	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:12:00 - [3] Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:21:00 - [4] Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:24:00 - [5] Eve is not Black/white .. there are so many factors that counts, when balancing stuff. Just by looking at numbers, it might seem unbalanced, but it really is not, and people tend to forget that .. alot Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!!
Y Ashanti	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:27:00 - [6] Uhm, to be honest.. yes an Armageddon with Tachs/Megabeams doing more damage at 50-60k than most Blaster/Autocannon ships is a little bit unbalanced.
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:29:00 - [7] Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways.
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:29:00 - [8] Originally by: LWMaverick Eve is not Black/white .. there are so many factors that counts, when balancing stuff. Just by looking at numbers, it might seem unbalanced, but it really is not, and people tend to forget that .. alot Ok geddon does more damage than meagthron by a long way and is much cheaper. How is it balanced?
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:32:00 - [9] Originally by: LWMaverick Eve is not Black/white .. there are so many factors that counts, when balancing stuff. Just by looking at numbers, it might seem unbalanced, but it really is not, and people tend to forget that .. alot do u ever see any 350mm megas? no? well its says something about them is totally **** also put it this way, a t1 cheap kitted named megabeam guns gedden does better than a t2 kitted 350mm rail mega at the same range at all ranges! is that balance? -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:35:00 - [10] Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship.

Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:37:00 - [11] Originally by: MOS DEF Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. first the volley of tachs > 425 by 23% taking into account megas +5% dmg per lvl at lvl 5 secondaly lots of ppl use tach geddens in pvp! grid troubles? what else u gona fit in lows with 3dmg mods maxing out your dmg, WCS? 208km with 2 sensor boosters is more than enough! -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:38:00 - [12] Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:39:58 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:39:28 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. I seriously hope to meet you in a fleet fight once. No ECM no ECCM just plan guns. OMFG we would've won. Those fu**ers cheat with their scorps. wahwahwah. Maybe you should consider that the geddon can do nothing but deal dmg. DMG mods don't win fights. Never did. I will say it again therefore: Mega > Geddon in fleet.
Shirei	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:40:00 - [13] It's called long range. Good luck with your EW at 150-180k.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:40:00 - [14] Originally by: MOS DEF I seriously hope to meet you in a fleet fight once. No ECM no ECCM just plan guns. OMFG we would've won. Those fu**ers cheat with their scorps. wahwahwah. at 200km your safe from ECM ECCM is a wast! if u get jamed warp out and back in, or just wait there for the cycle to finish -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:41:00 - [15] Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:44:43 Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: MOS DEF I seriously hope to meet you in a fleet fight once. No ECM no ECCM just plan guns. OMFG we would've won. Those fu**ers cheat with their scorps. wahwahwah. at 200km your safe from ECM ECCM is a wast! if u get jamed warp out and back in, or just wait there for the cycle to finish That is true. A good reason to fight at 120k. ;) About your warp out or wait comment: No comment You think geddon is so much better fly it. The majority doesn't from what i see on the battlefield so spare us your whine for stupid changes noone wants.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:45:00 - [16] Eh, you realize that 425mm is the Megabeam equivalent and Tachyons are above both..? Your whole argument falls apart here. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:45:00 - [17] Now try to compare a Megathron with 425mm Railguns and a Apocalypse with Tacyhons. The Armageddon is one of few Amarrian spaceships with Damage / RoF bonus. Just because it outdamages a Megathron does not make it any better, just different. "We brake for nobody"
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:47:00 - [18] Originally by: MOS DEF Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: MOS DEF I seriously hope to meet you in a fleet fight once. No ECM no ECCM just plan guns. OMFG we would've won. Those fu**ers cheat with their scorps. wahwahwah. at 200km your safe from ECM ECCM is a wast! if u get jamed warp out and back in, or just wait there for the cycle to finish That is true. A good reason to fight at 120k. ;) About your warp out or wait comment: No comment Dude I made up a setup in like 1 minute. Of course its not gonna be immune to everything. You dont have to use that exact setup every time, i was just demonstraiting that the geddon can fight very effectively at extreme ranges just like you said it couldnt a few posts earlier.
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:49:00 - [19] Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:51:17 Looking at this the domi must be horrible overpowered at close range: A domi can suck my geddon dry and kill me with drones while tanking my dmg till my cap runs out. I have no chance. What do we learn from this? The Domi and Heavy NOS/NEUTs need the NERF and the geddon is totally gimped! OMGWHINE! Edit: If you call double RCU paperthin gunboat efficient then yes. The rest just uses the apoc as everyone else in fleet combat. Compare thr right ships to eachother and you will see that the mega and 425mm rails are perfectly fine. Actually one of the more deadly ships out there atm.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:50:00 - [20] Edited by: LWMaverick on 13/05/2006 13:51:42 nm Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!!

bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:51:00 - [21] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Eh, you realize that 425mm is the Megabeam equivalent and Tachyons are above both..? Your whole argument falls apart here. Huh? Where is this written down? Also i dont see how this changes anything.
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:53:00 - [22] Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:51:17 Looking at this the domi must be horrible overpowered at close range: A domi can suck my geddon dry and kill me with drones while tanking my dmg till my cap runs out. I have no chance. What do we learn from this? The Domi and Heavy NOS/NEUTs need the NERF and the geddon is totally gimped! OMGWHINE! Edit: If you call double RCU paperthin gunboat efficient then yes. The rest just uses the apoc as everyone else in fleet combat. Compare thr right ships to eachother and you will see that the mega and 425mm rails are perfectly fine. Actually one of the more deadly ships out there atm. Dude if you want to talk about dominix go somewhere else. This thread is about lasers and rails and nothing else.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:55:00 - [23] Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: DigitalCommunist Eh, you realize that 425mm is the Megabeam equivalent and Tachyons are above both..? Your whole argument falls apart here. Huh? Where is this written down? Also i dont see how this changes anything. go forth and try and fit tachyons
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:56:00 - [24] We are comparing the megathron and armageddon. THe amarr gunship vs the gallente gunship. I dont care about dominixes and apocs and what they can do thats different. Im very sure a tanking apoc with nos could spank a 425mm railthron just as easy but i realy dont care. Please keep this thread on track.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:58:00 - [25] Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: DigitalCommunist Eh, you realize that 425mm is the Megabeam equivalent and Tachyons are above both..? Your whole argument falls apart here. Huh? Where is this written down? Also i dont see how this changes anything. Its been written by both TomB and Tuxford 68746516843487 times on this forum. And yes, it changes everything. You're comparing the inferiority of 425mm against Tachyons when they're not even the same weapon class. 350mm rails are kind of junk, but only because Mega Pulse and now 1200mm are so much better. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.05.13 13:59:00 - [26] Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 14:00:06 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:51:17 Looking at this the domi must be horrible overpowered at close range: A domi can suck my geddon dry and kill me with drones while tanking my dmg till my cap runs out. I have no chance. What do we learn from this? The Domi and Heavy NOS/NEUTs need the NERF and the geddon is totally gimped! OMGWHINE! Edit: If you call double RCU paperthin gunboat efficient then yes. The rest just uses the apoc as everyone else in fleet combat. Compare thr right ships to eachother and you will see that the mega and 425mm rails are perfectly fine. Actually one of the more deadly ships out there atm. Dude if you want to talk about dominix go somewhere else. This thread is about lasers and rails and nothing else. I am using your argumentation though. Tachyons are used on apocs as 425mm are used on megas. You suddenly brought a geddon into play to proof that tachyons do more dmg. Well dual RCU2 tachyon geddons usually don't fly around for a very damn good reason wich is why you should use the apoc to compare in the first place. If you think teh tach geddon is overpowered then just bring it into fleet combat.
CptEagle	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:03:00 - [27] Then give us 500mm Railguns.
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:03:00 - [28] Ok for a start why the hell shouldnt I compare amarr's best laser Vs the gallente's one. Why would it not being the equivelent make any difference at all.
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:04:00 - [29] Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 14:00:06 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:51:17 Looking at this the domi must be horrible overpowered at close range: A domi can suck my geddon dry and kill me with drones while tanking my dmg till my cap runs out. I have no chance. What do we learn from this? The Domi and Heavy NOS/NEUTs need the NERF and the geddon is totally gimped! OMGWHINE! Edit: If you call double RCU paperthin gunboat efficient then yes. The rest just uses the apoc as everyone else in fleet combat. Compare thr right ships to eachother and you will see that the mega and 425mm rails are perfectly fine. Actually one of the more deadly ships out there atm. Dude if you want to talk about dominix go somewhere else. This thread is about lasers and rails and nothing else. I am using your argumentation though. Tachyons are used on apocs as 425mm are used on megas. You suddenly brought a geddon into play to proof that tachyons do more dmg. Well dual RCU2 tachyon geddons usually don't fly around for a very damn good reason wich is why you should use the apoc to compare in the first place. If you think teh tach geddon is overpowered then just bring it into fleet combat. Thats funny because I see tachygeddons more than beam geddons. Why wouldnt I compare amarrs gunship to gallentes?
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:04:00 - [30] Originally by: bundy bear We are comparing the megathron and armageddon. THe amarr gunship vs the gallente gunship. I dont care about dominixes and apocs and what they can do thats different. Im very sure a tanking apoc with nos could spank a 425mm railthron just as easy but i realy dont care. Please keep this thread on track. Who said each ship has to be exactly balanced to its tier'd counterpart? When it comes to balance something will always have the edge, sure the geddon is better but not head and shoulders above.

MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:07:00 - [31] Originally by: bundy bear Ok for a start why the hell shouldnt I compare amarr's best laser Vs the gallente's one. Why would it not being the equivelent make any difference at all. You can do that but you have to compare them on ships where they usually are used. I have killed many many geddons by now and 7 tachyon Ii's + dual RCU is something you wont see often simply because the whole setup is build around fitting that guns wich usually is not a very good idea. Compare the tachyon apoc to a 425mm railthron and noone would be upset. Keep in mind that fitting tachyons on an apoc is a pain allready.
keepiru	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:09:00 - [32] you keep forgetting that the geddon is one 2 amarr t1 ships with a dmg/rof bonus. you cant balance the guns for that, because the vast majority of amarr ships have 0 damage bonuses. if you make lasers do less damage then other guns, youll go back the goddamn stupid situation you had pre-exodus where people fit rails on their apocs. please think stuff through becore you post, instead of simply asking for some cheese. neway, this will al be moot when tier-3 bs come out, which is probably why ccp isnt listening to anymore "nerf this, boost that" threads. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:14:00 - [33] Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 14:00:06 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:51:17 Looking at this the domi must be horrible overpowered at close range: A domi can suck my geddon dry and kill me with drones while tanking my dmg till my cap runs out. I have no chance. What do we learn from this? The Domi and Heavy NOS/NEUTs need the NERF and the geddon is totally gimped! OMGWHINE! Edit: If you call double RCU paperthin gunboat efficient then yes. The rest just uses the apoc as everyone else in fleet combat. Compare thr right ships to eachother and you will see that the mega and 425mm rails are perfectly fine. Actually one of the more deadly ships out there atm. Dude if you want to talk about dominix go somewhere else. This thread is about lasers and rails and nothing else. I am using your argumentation though. Tachyons are used on apocs as 425mm are used on megas. You suddenly brought a geddon into play to proof that tachyons do more dmg. Well dual RCU2 tachyon geddons usually don't fly around for a very damn good reason wich is why you should use the apoc to compare in the first place. If you think teh tach geddon is overpowered then just bring it into fleet combat. Most geddons in fleets do use tachyons so i dont see what your trying to prove.
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:16:00 - [34] Most geddons in fleets are apocs. ;) From those that use tachyons most use tech 1 and i have seen LOADS of tachyongeddons using just 6 guns. Go figure.
6Bagheera9	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:32:00 - [35] Um, lasers only do emp and thermal and this hamstrings them pretty badly vs armor tanks. They need the extra damage to compensate.
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.05.13 14:45:00 - [36] Megathron 7 x 425 II 2 sensor, 2 tracking (or instead of 1 tracking install backup). 1 small armor rep, 2 x 1600 rolled tungsten, 2 x magnetic, 2 x wcs (or replace it with tracking enchanters, if you want to snipe, or 2 x energised adaptive nano). I have 2 x more hp than you, more resists, can warpout, can repair myself, while in rewarp. Mega is perfect ship. Because you don`t need any extenders (nor cpu, nor pg) to install full t2 fitting. Next. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:06:00 - [37] Originally by: bundy bear High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. let's assume for a moment that your armageddon do an 1v1 snipeing match with a railthron. The railthron has the same fit, but surprise! it also has 2 low slots empty, because you don't have to fit 2 RCU inside. So the megahtron pilot fit, for example, 2 energized adaptative nano II. The Arma do more raw DPS, but the Railthron is way toughter. Railthron win. Let's also remember that for truely long range radio cristal do less raw damage than iron charges, easily nullifying the higher RoF Advantage of the Amarr pilot, and that EM is by far the worst damage to do in a fleet, because nobody shield tank and everyone armor tank in a sniper setup. Railthron win again. The OP made a big mistake when trying to compare lasers and railguns: The Tachyone beam is an Amarr "Super weapon", and isn't supposed to have any equivalent. Simply said, the Mega Beam Gallente equivalent isn't the 350mm rail, but the 425mm railgun. Also, using an Armageddon to compare lasers and railguns screw up your argument from the start, because the VAST majority of amarr ships doesn't have any damage-related bonus, while MOST of the gallente ships do have one. It's like using an Apoc to speaking about armor tanking, as if every armor-tanked ship could do as well. Tbh the only thing railguns need is a cap usage reduction, and lasers need a better long-range cristal
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:06:00 - [38] Megathron 7 x 425 II 2 sensor, 2 tracking (or instead of 1 tracking install backup). 1 small armor rep, 2 x 1600 rolled tungsten, 2 x magnetic, 2 x wcs (or replace it with tracking enchanters, if you want to snipe, or 2 x energised adaptive nano). I have 2 x more hp than you, more resists, can warpout, can repair myself, while in rewarp. Mega is perfect ship for fleetbattles. Because you don`t need any extenders (nor cpu, nor pg) to install full t2 long range fitting. Next. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Amerame	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Evil Thug Megathron 7 x 425 II 2 sensor, 2 tracking (or instead of 1 tracking install backup). 1 small armor rep, 2 x 1600 rolled tungsten, 2 x magnetic, 2 x wcs (or replace it with tracking enchanters, if you want to snipe, or 2 x energised adaptive nano). I have 2 x more hp than you, more resists, can warpout, can repair myself, while in rewarp. Mega is perfect ship. Because you don`t need any extenders (nor cpu, nor pg) to install full t2 fitting. Next. Agreed 425mm are fine imo, especialy with the tracking boost that's supposed to happen. What about 350mm ? I mean they're not THAT bad but they could use some sort of buff I think, considering how underused they are, maybe a slight damage increase rather than range, would be an ok medium range gun.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:17:00 - [40] The notion of the tach as superweapon was left in the wake of eve evolution about a year ago if i recall right. And rightly so. Megabeams should be comapred to 350's, tachs to 425's. It no longer makes sense to have lasers that are a notch up from the largest rail and howitzer. Especially not since lasers also already dominate lower ranges with pulses and their dual class weapons (the only large dual-type turrets in Eve that are remotely usefull). So, forget that notion please. IO don;t want to see it crop up again. Same goes for damage types, lasers get uber damage in their stats already, and I don;t really see why since the stacking nerf to damage mods made resistance tanks commonplace, meaning that em/th is no longer by default worse then th/kin. Power to the players !

Commander Thrawn	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:28:00 - [41] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 13/05/2006 15:31:49 Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 13/05/2006 15:11:05 Originally by: bundy bear High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. let's assume for a moment that your armageddon do an 1v1 sniping contest with a railthron. The railthron has the same fit, but surprise! it also has 2 low slots empty, because you don't have to fit 2 RCU inside. So the megahtron pilot fit, for example, 2 energized adaptative nano II. The Arma do more raw DPS, but the Railthron is way toughter. Railthron win. Let's also remember that for truly long range, radio cristals do less raw damage than iron charges, easily nullifying the higher RoF advantage of the Amarr pilot, and that EM is by far the worst damage to do in a fleet, because nobody shield tank and everyone armor tank in a sniper setup. Railthron win again. The OP made a big mistake when trying to compare lasers and railguns: The Tachyone beam is an Amarr "Super weapon", and isn't supposed to have any equivalent. Simply said, the Mega Beam Gallente equivalent isn't the 350mm rail, but the 425mm railgun. Also, using an Armageddon to compare lasers and railguns screw up your argument from the start, because the VAST majority of amarr ships doesn't have any damage-related bonus, while MOST of the gallente ships do have one. It's like using an Apoc to speaking about armor tanking, as if every armor-tanked ship could do as well. Tbh the only thing railguns need is a cap usage reduction, and lasers need a better long-range cristal perfectly said, nothing else needs to be added and seriously, try using a tach-geddon, see how long you fire for, you run out of grid so fast. only the apoc can really do this for any decent amount of time
Frools	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Shadowsword let's assume for a moment that your armageddon do an 1v1 sniping contest with a railthron. The railthron has the same fit, but surprise! it also has 2 low slots empty, because you don't have to fit 2 RCU inside. So the megahtron pilot fit, for example, 2 energized adaptative nano II. The Arma do more raw DPS, but the Railthron is way toughter. Railthron win. probably run out of cap before you can come close to killing that railthron anyway
Othon Von'Salsa	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:45:00 - [43] Please stop ... It's not us but CCP which make everything for the amarr weapon. CCP, try a apoc/arma in PvP against another BS AND in PvE against ALL NPC ... You will see which the gun amarr have a big problem now. Yes the tracking and dps are good but the type of damage are very very bad and the guns are bad too. For the tracking, he is good for a medium range gun but not for our new close range pulse. Amarr = armor tank and it's not compatible with mwd and afterburner (med slot are dedied at tank). It's not possible to move away and if it's a BS minmatar or gallente at close range with mega pulse, you miss all the time and you can hit only if the bs is aligned with you. Please test and propose a solution for resolve this problems. Thx
kessah	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:49:00 - [44] Edited by: kessah on 13/05/2006 15:49:43 Think you gallente Pilots should be bloody gratful for what you got in fairness. Gallente dominate drones and CQ and there blasters are getting boosted, and they do crazy damage. Trust me one webber activated on a mega at near full mwd speed doesnt 'defend' you like all those "leave my precious blasters becus deep down i know there too good really" people say, they always drift within range. Anyway bottom line, be happy that CCP are sorting your blasters out. -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.13 16:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Rod Blaine The notion of the tach as superweapon was left in the wake of eve evolution about a year ago if i recall right. And rightly so. Link? I read this forum and every dev blog since years, and I haven't seen anything about it. If the tach isn't a superweapon, then why isn't there any cruiser-sized or frig-sized tachyon turret? Originally by: Rod Blaine Megabeams should be comapred to 350's, tachs to 425's. It no longer makes sense to have lasers that are a notch up from the largest rail and howitzer. Especially not since lasers also already dominate lower ranges with pulses and their dual class weapons (the only large dual-type turrets in Eve that are remotely usefull). I disagree. If you look at fitting reqs, DoT, cap usage, tracking and range, Mega beam lasers are much more comparable with 425mm and 1400mm than with a 350. I may also add that 350mm have been created long after Mega beams and 425 Rails. Also, aren't medium beams and heavy beams the amarr equivalent of the biggest rails and artilleries for frig-sized and cruiser-sized weapons? Sine the stas of large weapons are directly linked to those of smaller size, that alone prove you wrong. As for lower range laser, if they're used more often than lower-tier rails or artilleries, is it because of the beams themselves, or because of the Armageddon? Originally by: Rod Blaine So, forget that notion please. IO don;t want to see it crop up again. Same goes for damage types, lasers get uber damage in their stats already, and I don;t really see why since the stacking nerf to damage mods made resistance tanks commonplace, meaning that em/th is no longer by default worse then th/kin. Why is EM far worse than any other damage type in a fleet fight? That's simple, really. Most sniper setups have their mids full, and about 6 lows for damage mods and armor tank. With the stacking penalty, putting more than 3 damage mods is worthless, so you have 3-4 low to tank with. What's the most effective way to tank a ship with 3-4 slots? - explosive hardners, while usefulls, are far from the best choice: you won't have all that many tempests on the other side and thier damage isn't explosive-only, if you have, say, 25% of tempest on the other side, each of them using carbonized lead, that means that single slot harden you against 12.5% of the incoming damage, so you take about 6% less damage. Great, isn't it? - armor plates: The best way to tank your ship in a fleet battle, but their grid usage often mean you don't put more than 2 of them, at most. - Energized adaptatives nano membranes II: The second best way to tank damage coming from multiple weapon types. instead of 50-55% on one resist, you get between 80 and 100%, distributed on all four. Looking at my standard Apoc sniper fit, I have 15300 armor, with those resists: 76% EM, 52% Exp, 55% Kin, 61% therm. What do you think will kill me first with long range ammos? An Armageddon, with it's higher raw DPS, or just about any other BS? That's why, for fleet battles, EM is the worst damage type.
McCool	Posted - 2006.05.13 16:02:00 - [46] why do people even bother to talk about a duel between a megathron and a armageddon when we ALL know that the losing ship will just warp out before its destoyed and the mega have more free lowslots for wcs if the fight would be within 20k
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.05.13 16:04:00 - [47] Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 13/05/2006 15:49:43 Think you gallente Pilots should be bloody gratful for what you got in fairness. Gallente dominate drones and CQ and there blasters are getting boosted, and they do crazy damage. Trust me one webber activated on a mega at near full mwd speed doesnt 'defend' you like all those "leave my precious blasters becus deep down i know there too good really" people say, they always drift within range. Anyway bottom line, be happy that CCP are sorting your blasters out. Without meaning to say I agree with the op, this statement is rather silly really. First of all drones are no longer a gallente weapon only. And it looks like it'll get worse on that front. Seocndly galletne most certainly do not dominate cqc, they actually suck majorly at it if you factor in a coming nos nerf that incapacitates the drone+nos domi. Torp ravens and autocannon tempest defeat the blasterthron both one on one as well as in usability on all other fronts. Sure, you can say that one web won't disable a blasterthron at full speed heading straight for you. Of course, chances are it's not even going to get that far. First of all it;d need to land within 20km to scramble, then it needs to mwd 15km to optimal while taking fire and using cap, and then it needs to use it's maximum theoretical damage advantage of a whopping 9% (assuming neutrons which don;t fit and still won;t fit well even after tux's proposed changes) to beat the other ship that has not used much cap, not taken much damage yet and is likely to be sporting an equal or superior tank anways. So, how would that amount to dominating or 'doing crazy damage' ? It doesn;t and never will untill the ridiculous optimal of blasters in increased. Power to the players !
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.05.13 16:05:00 - [48] Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 13/05/2006 15:49:43 Think you gallente Pilots should be bloody gratful for what you got in fairness. Gallente dominate drones and CQ and there blasters are getting boosted, and they do crazy damage. Trust me one webber activated on a mega at near full mwd speed doesnt 'defend' you like all those "leave my precious blasters becus deep down i know there too good really" people say, they always drift within range. Anyway bottom line, be happy that CCP are sorting your blasters out. So just because some of the problems are being fixed, means that other cant? So lets say, just because the ishtar kicks ass, means that the deimos shouldnt get a fix? Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!!
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.05.13 16:14:00 - [49] Quote: Link? I read this forum and every dev blog since years, and I haven't seen anything about it. If the tach isn't a superweapon, then why isn't there any cruiser-sized or frig-sized tachyon turret? How many cruiser sized beam lasers are there ? 3 How many cruiser sized howitzers and rails are there ? 3 How many large beam lasers are there ? 3 How many large rails and large projectiles are there ? 3. 425 = tach 350 = megabeam dual250 = dual heavy beam In any balancing explanation given by CCP in the last year or two the comparison of tachs has been with 1400's and 425's. The only place where that was not made is in the blog concerning the tach boost that was rationalised by megabeam suckyness (which is a myth, since megabeams > 350's > 1200's already). Now, if CCP want tachs as superweapons, fine, increase fitting while you increase damage modifier. But at this time they are perfectly fine for fitting versus damage versus tracking versus range compared to 425's and 1400's, if not already too good. The megabeam beats its counterparts by a mile, and dual heavy beams do the same. Now, I'm not saying the op has a complete argumentation, but the question he poses is valid enough. CCP however likes diversity, and so do I. I don't mind that for example dual heavy beams have superior range to dual 250's. At least, I wouldn't if their tracking would suck in comparison, or their fitting or damage would. Neither does however, and fux knows why. ut since noone really uses em anyway, noone really cares. The big guns of each race are different tho. Big beams/rails and big pulses/blasters should receive much mroe care then they seem to get atm. A Power to the players !
Meridius	Posted - 2006.05.13 16:16:00 - [50] Originally by: bundy bear Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. OH NOES THE GEDDON IS GOOD AT SOMETHING Thats it's role, doing damage, it's not good at anything else, stop ******* whining. Why can't my tier 2 Apocalypse use ECM as good as a tier 1 Scorpion? BUHU? Why can't my tier 2 Apocalypse use drones as well as a tier 1 Dominix? BUHU - _____

McCool	Posted - 2006.05.13 16:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: bundy bear Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. OH NOES THE GEDDON IS GOOD AT SOMETHING Thats it's role, doing damage, it's not good at anything else, stop ******* whining. Why can't my tier 2 Apocalypse use ECM as good as a tier 1 Scorpion? BUHU? Why can't my tier 2 Apocalypse use drones as well as a tier 1 Dominix? BUHU QTF
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.05.13 17:33:00 - [52] Originally by: CptEagle Then give us 500mm Railguns. /signed /me starts planning his Roc setup with 500mm rails.
MrRookie	Posted - 2006.05.13 17:35:00 - [53] The Ibis does more damage than the scorpoin, that doesn't mean the scorpion needs a fix. you need to look at the slots, capacitor, hitpoints and so on. Damage alone doesn't determ wether ships are balanced or not. I suggest you remove the TUX part from the topic and stop wasting the devs time. It's not like every narrovminded whinetread needs their attention _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.05.13 17:43:00 - [54] Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 13/05/2006 15:49:43 Think you gallente Pilots should be bloody gratful for what you got in fairness. Gallente dominate drones and CQ and there blasters are getting boosted, and they do crazy damage. Trust me one webber activated on a mega at near full mwd speed doesnt 'defend' you like all those "leave my precious blasters becus deep down i know there too good really" people say, they always drift within range. Anyway bottom line, be happy that CCP are sorting your blasters out. /signed Gallente need to stfu about weapon classes. If they ever fix the drone issues Gallente ships are going to be godly.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.13 18:09:00 - [55] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 13/05/2006 15:49:43 Think you gallente Pilots should be bloody gratful for what you got in fairness. Gallente dominate drones and CQ and there blasters are getting boosted, and they do crazy damage. Trust me one webber activated on a mega at near full mwd speed doesnt 'defend' you like all those "leave my precious blasters becus deep down i know there too good really" people say, they always drift within range. Anyway bottom line, be happy that CCP are sorting your blasters out. Without meaning to say I agree with the op, this statement is rather silly really. First of all drones are no longer a gallente weapon only. And it looks like it'll get worse on that front. Seocndly galletne most certainly do not dominate cqc, they actually suck majorly at it if you factor in a coming nos nerf that incapacitates the drone+nos domi. Torp ravens and autocannon tempest defeat the blasterthron both one on one as well as in usability on all other fronts. Sure, you can say that one web won't disable a blasterthron at full speed heading straight for you. Of course, chances are it's not even going to get that far. First of all it;d need to land within 20km to scramble, then it needs to mwd 15km to optimal while taking fire and using cap, and then it needs to use it's maximum theoretical damage advantage of a whopping 9% (assuming neutrons which don;t fit and still won;t fit well even after tux's proposed changes) to beat the other ship that has not used much cap, not taken much damage yet and is likely to be sporting an equal or superior tank anways. So, how would that amount to dominating or 'doing crazy damage' ? It doesn;t and never will untill the ridiculous optimal of blasters in increased. On this I would like to add that some very evil DHP geddon setups exist which will kill your torp raven and your AC tempest in addition to your blasterthron and it's very possible to kill a dominix if he has no EW/is unlucky with his EW Another point for the geddon Tho i think this thread is about guns and not ships and as MOS already stated earlier in fleet battles apoc is used more then geddon
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.05.13 18:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 13/05/2006 16:15:45 Quote: Link? I read this forum and every dev blog since years, and I haven't seen anything about it. If the tach isn't a superweapon, then why isn't there any cruiser-sized or frig-sized tachyon turret? How many cruiser sized beam lasers are there ? 3 How many cruiser sized howitzers and rails are there ? 3 How many large beam lasers are there ? 3 How many large rails and large projectiles are there ? 3. 425 = tach 350 = megabeam dual250 = dual heavy beam small correction: hybrids have 3 sizes of long range cruiser weapons (D150mm wich sucks dearly, 200mm and 250mm). proj only have the 650mm and the 720mm lasers have focused beam and heavy beam (quad pulse is short range weapon) ...and I remeber TomB stating some time ago that the comparision is 350mm->1200mm->DHB and 425mm->1400mm->megabeam where do the D250's stay? hell dunno, but I remember quite well seeing TomB saying tachs are "special" ---------------- Originally by: Abdalion Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2006.05.13 18:50:00 - [57] Id buy the argument about "tachs being super weapons" if there were 500mm rails and 1600mm arties. Its a top weapon apoc/geddon can fit, and 425 is top weapon mega can fit. The point about being "other class" is kinda moot tbh.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.13 18:58:00 - [58] Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. And doesnt fit. ~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. And doesnt fit. It does, i know a guy who was regularly flying this: 7x tachII 3x sb 4x hsII, 2x rcuII, 2x wcs With web, he spanked dual lar ac pest when fight started at 20km. Not to mention, he had warpout option. So i don't see why the setup above would not fit. Die, die, die.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:16:00 - [60] Originally by: LUKEC Not to mention, he had warpout option. So did the pest if he was flying a geddon with 3 sbII's

Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:31:00 - [61] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. And doesnt fit. It does, i know a guy who was regularly flying this: 7x tachII 3x sb 4x hsII, 2x rcuII, 2x wcs With web, he spanked dual lar ac pest when fight started at 20km. Not to mention, he had warpout option. So i don't see why the setup above would not fit. That doesn't fit either...where are all you people getting this magic CPU? ~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Jenney	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:38:00 - [62] Originally by: Gronsak do u ever see any 350mm megas? no? well its says something about them is totally **** also put it this way, a t1 cheap kitted named megabeam guns gedden does better than a t2 kitted 350mm rail mega at the same range at all ranges! is that balance? 350mm rails are a bit weak i use some tech2 ones on my npcing dominix with uranium ammo to give me an optimal of 40km . My warden sentry drones (the weakest hiting of all senter drones) with BS lvl4 drone interfaceing lvl 4 and sentry drones lvl3 out damage and out range my tech2 350mm rails '' i can also only fit 4 guns and iv only got 1 LAR on
Maverick Aeldrin	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:47:00 - [63] "That doesn't fit either...where are all you people getting this magic CPU?" 5% implant?
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.13 19:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Maverick Aeldrin "That doesn't fit either...where are all you people getting this magic CPU?" 5% implant? Perhaps. ~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Morrigan Starlover	Posted - 2006.05.13 20:12:00 - [65] Ok after reading I gather that the longest of the long lazers far outreaches artillery and rails. But its also a higher weapons class. Nearly double the grid use of the things this guy is comparing it to. So hell why not make bigger artillery and rail guns. Let tempests and megathrons act as long ass range snipers in fleet combat too.
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.05.13 20:24:00 - [66] Woot the ammar have a good weapon! Nerf it! Give the minmatar an 1800mm howitzer, despite the fact that 1400mms are perfectly fine, as are 425mms. I'd love to see the alpha on an 1800mm howitzer Anyway stop **ing whining, and for the love of god stop writing **ing threads with TUX LOOK AT ME PLEASE in the title it's doing my head in let alone his. Tachs have their advantages and disadvantages, and whoever the hell is flying that 3 sensor booster geddon with 4 heatsinks and a full rack of tachs needs to set me up with his cap supplier, cos i'll take 10 of whatever he has. especially with 2 nos from the tempy. I mean wtf? As a dedicated minmatar pilot I hate all things ammar and even I reckon it's fine as it is, right now the things that need looking at are the lower tier rails and arties, the superiority of nos and ecm and thereby the domi and the raven. So stop finding new things to whine about, please. sgb C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.13 20:48:00 - [67] Edited by: Shadowsword on 13/05/2006 20:48:27 So, you want a 500mm rail? A gun that will have almost the same dot, a barely superior optimal, and eat so much grid that you need two RCU II to fit 7 of them? Not to mention a terrible cap usage... Well, as far as I'm concerned, you can have it.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.05.13 20:58:00 - [68] Originally by: LUKEC It does, i know a guy who was regularly flying this: 7x tachII 3x sb 4x hsII, 2x rcuII, 2x wcs With web, he spanked dual lar ac pest when fight started at 20km. Not to mention, he had warpout option. So i don't see why the setup above would not fit. Doesn't fit LUKEC, short on cpu. Max skills. Turret cpu implant i'm guessing? Anyway, that Tempest losing to that tach Geddon, lol. It's easy for a Tempest to get under tachs and *****it to no end. Bad pilot. - _____
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.05.13 21:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LUKEC It does, i know a guy who was regularly flying this: 7x tachII 3x sb 4x hsII, 2x rcuII, 2x wcs With web, he spanked dual lar ac pest when fight started at 20km. Not to mention, he had warpout option. So i don't see why the setup above would not fit. Doesn't fit LUKEC, short on cpu. Max skills. Turret cpu implant i'm guessing? Anyway, that Tempest losing to that tach Geddon, lol. It's easy for a Tempest to get under tachs and ***it to no end. Bad pilot. yeah i'm still wondering how the hell that happened. That geddon can't have been going more than 150m/s, how did a mwd / ac tempy not get under it's range in less time that it would take to strip it's shields off? wierd, or just plain *****s. sgb C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.05.14 00:22:00 - [70] The dual heavy beam laser which is the weakest beam turret on a geddon will outdamage a 425mm railthron and its still easier to fit a tank on the armageddon.

JoeT	Posted - 2006.05.14 00:24:00 - [71] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. And doesnt fit. It does, i know a guy who was regularly flying this: 7x tachII 3x sb 4x hsII, 2x rcuII, 2x wcs With web, he spanked dual lar ac pest when fight started at 20km. Not to mention, he had warpout option. So i don't see why the setup above would not fit. That doesn't fit either...where are all you people getting this magic CPU? That setup does indeed fit. and it works nicely at gates --- Murder Murder, yes indeed, K-I-L-L-I-N-G ---
Commander Thrawn	Posted - 2006.05.14 01:24:00 - [72] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 14/05/2006 01:25:37 Originally by: JoeT Edited by: JoeT on 14/05/2006 00:28:01 Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: MOS DEF Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:32:08 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:30:19 Edited by: MOS DEF on 13/05/2006 13:29:29 Originally by: bundy bear Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 13/05/2006 13:12:26 have you remember to apply 25% ship dmg bonus to the rails? because most amarr ships do not have a damage bonus and so lasers HAVE to do more damage, or youd be better off just fitting hybrids. use CODE tags If you count in damage bonus the armageddons ROF bonus effectively increases its DPS by 33.33%. This is alot more then the megathrons bonus so in no way do lasers HAVE to do more damage. Have you ever even tried to use a tachyon geddon? I think you are just talking out of your behind like 99% off the forum whiners. Get a clue dude. 425mm railthron > tachyon geddon anyday. Geddon has extreme grid trouble with tachs. You only have 3 mids where you need 2 sensor booster to even be able to lock at range. A ROF bonus can't compete with a dmg bonus in fleets either since you usually get only one volley on the primary ine anyways. High: 7 tachyon beam laser II's Med: 2 sensor booster II's 1 tracking computer II Low: 2 reactor control II 3 heatsink II 2 tracking enhancer II 1 med rep II Done. Way better burst damage than megathron and way better DPS with a tier 1 ship. And doesnt fit. It does, i know a guy who was regularly flying this: 7x tachII 3x sb 4x hsII, 2x rcuII, 2x wcs With web, he spanked dual lar ac pest when fight started at 20km. Not to mention, he had warpout option. So i don't see why the setup above would not fit. That doesn't fit either...where are all you people getting this magic CPU? Need to drop one HS for a tracking mod to make it fit. works at gates Dunno what you guys are talking about, fits fine for me i even managed to fit a 1600 tungston plate in a the place of a heatsink but then i had to drop a heatsink which i replaced with a cap relay to be honest my only concern with this setup is the cap. no way will the cap ever hold up on this. the geddon rate of fire although nice, just causes your cap to evaporate with Tachs. IMHO only a apoc can feild tachs effectively, its mage beams for the geddon.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.05.14 01:40:00 - [73] Originally by: Commander Thrawn its mage beams for the geddon. Mage beams eh -,- wow ftl - _____
Commander Thrawn	Posted - 2006.05.14 01:44:00 - [74] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Commander Thrawn its mage beams for the geddon. Mage beams eh -,- wow ftl constructive post ftl


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